Russia - USA Relations

I agree with most of your assessment except this one. When the USSR collapsed, was there any war that followed?

The USSR wasn't acting like a petulant child like the US does, and doesn't believe it is a powerful force for good in the universe so the universe owes it if something does go wrong.

If today Russia or China collapse, will WWIII start? most definitely not.

You seem to have worked this all out already... if Zhirinovsky or some extreme nationalist like him but 30 years younger took over in Russia and started acting way worse than the west accuses Putin of doing now... who actively interferes in western elections like the US actually already does, and murders people openly like Saudi Arabia does, conflict would certainly ramp up and there would be many in the west demanding that there is no room on this planet for two US of As.

What if a similar character takes over in China and turns it into a war economy to build ships and tanks and most importantly nuclear ballistic missiles... tens of thousands of them and then decides to test the waters by invading Taiwan?

Could easily lead to WWIII.

But suddenly when its the US that goes down the entire world burns?

No. In fact I think the world really can't continue with the US trying to be the centre of attention and the worlds policeman and bringer of democracy.

What I think is that if it has its crown taken away and its free lunch no longer exists and it has to again work for its income and actually do something about paying its foreign debt and not with those worthless dollars they print like confette, that a serious tantrum and nuclear weapons use could be a possibility.

I think this is more to do with American fear mongering. I say make it happen then we will see what comes next.

Oh yes... the wonderful... if you don't love it then leave, or even better... if you think this is bad imagine if Russia or China or North Korea were in charge... except that they don't want to be in charge like you so clearly do you pricks.

As long as the US continues to dominate world politics through its economy, it will not stop in its attempts to destroy Russia and China whenever there is an opportunity.

But that is the point... their economy is broken... they broke it years ago... and it needs serious changes that they really don't want to make to get it working again... politicians can talk the talk but when they get into power they owe their positions to the 1% who paid their bills and they certainly don't want to change the system that they became obscenely wealthy from... votes mean nothing when a company can contribute half a million dollars to a campaign fund on both parties sides and then control the eventual president. The system is broken, votes don't matter.

Monsanto can make chemicals that kill birds and bees and children and as long as they bribe the elected officials who decide what can or cannot be used, with direct payments or with offers of cushy jobs at the company with enormous salaries, then those people don't have a chance... that is not democracy.

And it is not like we didn't get warned... in the 1980s Bo and Luke Duke in Dukes of Hazzard, and those lovable rogues from the A Team were always saving pretty women in distress from evil companies wanting to steal their land or poison it or some such... but then companies became good and MacGyver fought evil foreign and domestic government entities to save America... Michael Knight worked for a private company too... the media turned away from saving us from evil corporations to foreign companies and local and foreign governments...

The USSR wasn't acting like a petulant child like the US does, and doesn't believe it is a powerful force for good in the universe so the universe owes it if something does go wrong.

But still, America threatening to start WWIII is not an excuse to support their existence, if US did start a war in the event of their downfall then the whole world will take note of it.

You seem to have worked this all out already... if Zhirinovsky or some extreme nationalist like him but 30 years younger took over in Russia and started acting way worse than the west accuses Putin of doing now... who actively interferes in western elections like the US actually already does, and murders people openly like Saudi Arabia does, conflict would certainly ramp up and there would be many in the west demanding that there is no room on this planet for two US of As.

What if a similar character takes over in China and turns it into a war economy to build ships and tanks and most importantly nuclear ballistic missiles... tens of thousands of them and then decides to test the waters by invading Taiwan?

Again this is the kind of reasoning that irritates me. So when the US acts like a bully its okay, but when other countries start acting the same it risks WWIII. The reason why the US continues to behave like it is doing now is because they are yet to receive a bloody punch in the face. Now if they decide to escalate the situation to a nuclear war after receiving a crippling blow, then so be it. If nuclear annihilation is the only way to bring the world to a new era then why not? such an event will at least take care of the current overpopulation problem.

Oh yes... the wonderful... if you don't love it then leave, or even better... if you think this is bad imagine if Russia or China or North Korea were in charge

But they haven't been in charge yet so how can you be so sure? like what I said before, let it happen first then we will see how it goes.

But that is the point... their economy is broken... they broke it years ago... and it needs serious changes that they really don't want to make to get it working again

Then it needs to collapse. Russia and China needs to make this happen NOW even if it means kicking its rotten foundation to start the process of its irreversible demise.

But still, America threatening to start WWIII is not an excuse to support their existence, if US did start a war in the event of their downfall then the whole world will take note of it.

I think you are not understanding my position... I am saying I don't want any country... even the US to go through collapse and civil war, mainly because the people who have created the situation and become wealthy by it are the first to run away and are therefore least effected by the eventual chaos.

I am not saying I want the US to continue doing what it has been doing... because it is pretty clear it can't.

Only an idiot like the ones currently in charge think one more sanction and Putin and China and Turkey and North Korea and Iran and Cuba and Venezuela will all do as they are told to do by us, because previously sanctions have been so successful against them, and as usual the sanctions mainly hurt the common people anyway.

So when the US acts like a bully its okay, but when other countries start acting the same it risks WWIII.

No. Everybody hates the US because it is a bully, and eventually the bully will get what is coming to them, but are you suggesting a collective punishment for all Americans because of the misbehaviour of their overlords on both sides of their political system?

Half of Americans don't even vote, and why would they... what fricken difference does it even make when laws are decided by the money donated by big companies and interest groups who are spending money to make even more money.

The reason why the US continues to behave like it is doing now is because they are yet to receive a bloody punch in the face.

But that is the problem... what will happen if they do... when 11/9 happened and Saudi nationals and Pakistani nationals flew planes into things they invaded Iraq and Afghanistan... the problem with confronting bullies is that they might be cowards underneath and burst into tears and never be a problem again, or they could be very well armed psychopaths who use the confrontation as an excuse to murder and destroy even more... and the separation of the US government and ruling elite from reality makes me suspect the latter.

Now if they decide to escalate the situation to a nuclear war after receiving a crippling blow, then so be it. If nuclear annihilation is the only way to bring the world to a new era then why not? such an event will at least take care of the current overpopulation problem.

Yeah, see that really ignores a lot of fundamental things about the way things work. The west has it rather easy even though they make things stressful and complicated... life used to be simpler sure, but also much more brutal, much less "fair", and with less rules and structure and less hygene and medical support.

Thinking we can have a nuclear war and then continue with a better world like Buck Rogers or Star Trek is just delusional, the fundamental destruction of the world economy as it is now has to happen... it is just to focussed on America and ignores most of the countries on the planet and stifles their growth... the world economy is designed to feed the US and its insatiable appetite, and it really is simply not sustainable. Consumerism is wasteful and expensive and counter productive.

But they haven't been in charge yet so how can you be so sure?

It is not something I say, it is something supporters of the current system say... which is really ironic because they are generally not billionaires and so the system isn't even designed to help them steal more from the masses, yet the fear of the unknown and years of indoctrination make them tools of the status quo.

like what I said before, let it happen first then we will see how it goes.

I am agreeing it needs to change, but I think a more orderly change would be better for everyone... I think the real winner of the break up of the soviet union was actually Russia, but in the 1980s who am I to say they should break up... it could have gone a lot worse and even the way it did go millions of people lost their life saving to bastards like Browder, and assets were stripped and immoral fortunes made by people least worthy to have any money at all.

Then it needs to collapse. Russia and China needs to make this happen NOW even if it means kicking its rotten foundation to start the process of its irreversible demise.

It probably does, but such systems have checks and balances that might not work to prevent corruption, but will certainly work to stop collapse.

And it is really none of Russia or Chinas business who is in charge in the US... while they have these idiots in charge they are not competitive in the future and are less of a threat... besides most Americans would see outside help from any direction as a hostile attempt at interference and collusion... except the obvious attempt by the UK through the Steele document, or continuous successful attempts by Israel to shape US policy to suit their particular interests...

It is Americas problem... the more the wield their power through control of international institutions the less power they have and the more they need to swing the bat. Using their dollar as a weapon has basically done more to undermine the US dollar as the international trade currency than anything Russia or China could possibly say or do... they control their own destiny but keep blaming everyone else for their problems... the final straw will be an attempt to ban assault rifles... that should kick them over the line.

And yes I am going to move these posts to a more suitable thread.

America brags about Top Spy inside Russia. Imagine if it was the opposite, America would be BITCHING for eternity about Russian attempts to destroy their democratic institutions Anyways I hope Putin orders his assassination along with his family and everyone who is important to him. Russia needs to stop playing around and impose a heavy cost to America.

C.I.A. Informant Extracted From Russia Had Sent Secrets to U.S. for Decades

WASHINGTON — Decades ago, the C.I.A. recruited and carefully cultivated a midlevel Russian official who began rapidly advancing through the governmental ranks. Eventually, American spies struck gold: The longtime source landed an influential position that came with access to the highest level of the Kremlin.

As American officials began to realize that Russia was trying to sabotage the 2016 presidential election, the informant became one of the C.I.A.’s most important — and highly protected — assets. But when intelligence officials revealed the severity of Russia’s election interference with unusual detail later that year, the news media picked up on details about the C.I.A.’s Kremlin sources.

C.I.A. officials worried about safety made the arduous decision in late 2016 to offer to extract the source from Russia. The situation grew more tense when the informant at first refused, citing family concerns — prompting consternation at C.I.A. headquarters and sowing doubts among some American counterintelligence officials about the informant’s trustworthiness. But the C.I.A. pressed again months later after more media inquiries. This time, the informant agreed.

The move brought to an end the career of one of the C.I.A.’s most important sources. It also effectively blinded American intelligence officials to the view from inside Russia as they sought clues about Kremlin interference in the 2018 midterm elections and next year’s presidential contest.

CNN first reported the 2017 extraction on Monday. Other details — including the source’s history with the agency, the initial 2016 exfiltration offer and the cascade of doubts set off by the informant’s subsequent refusal — have not been previously reported. This article is based on interviews in recent months with current and former officials who spoke on the condition that their names not be used discussing classified information.

I guess Russian counter-intelligence did its job and this maggot had to clear out. The Clinton "Intelligence" Agency can boast all it wants. It's nothing but trash talk.

It turns out that Butina did not confess to enough Russian meddling in the 2016 US elections. So America
has put Russians it claims "skewed the 2016 election" on the Interpol red list, reserved for terrorist and
mass murderers. This is a clear kidnapping operation to subsequently coerce 1984 style "confessions"
via torture (physical and psychological).

The US is a rogue regime which engages in banditry (e.g. stealing of Syrian oil and supporting terrorists
like Al Qaeda and ISIS for regime change in the name of economic gain) and gross human rights abuse
(Butina, future kidnap victims).

Desperate measures from a collapsing empire that knows it is falling and really doesn't know how to stop it so it is lashing out at anyone and everyone who might end up replacing them.

Thing is that no one wants to replace them... China and Russia have not shown any interest in becoming the worlds new policeman... or should I say head lynch man.

The US is past its prime. All these blowhard spewages about doing this and that (e.g. killing Nord Stream II) are vapid trash talk.

Development of the world economy is steering more and more spice flow away from control by the US and its EU minions. China and India
have turned out to be failures for the globalist agenda of western corporations skimming the cream from hundreds of millions of new
consumers. Domestic companies have grown to service the domestic market and all these new consumers. Now, we have MAGA and an
attempt to repatriate US jobs. This by itself is inconsistent with the current global GDP footprint of the USA and is a process
of shrinking back into its borders. No 20 trillion dollar GDP can be maintained with MAGA. The US economy is being downsized and
right-sized and it will not be able to afford its grossly oversized 800 military bases for long.

Delusions of global empire are nothing more than nostalgia at this stage.

The sad thing is that their original sales pitch was fine... truth and justice and a free market economy... but they weren't satisfied with being the top dog, they spent their time sabotaging everyone else and getting the first bite of every meal or treat... leaving the leftovers for the loyal poodles at its feet, but spoiling everything it does not want so no one else can survive in any sort of comfort.

Well keep it up assholes... no one will miss you... and I am sure the line to give your corpse a kick in the nads will be long and in a party mood.

Imagine a nicer America, one that actively developed clean green technology and remained rich and powerful peddling good technologies and energy instead of bad, and didn't always win but competed openly and fairly and demanded the same of others.

Such ideas are impossible now because the environment they have is toxic and such things wont survive to even get into the race...

Mention of deep state... that is the problem... until that is dealt with there can be no future for the US that does not involve painful collapse and slow degradation and atrophy.

Yeah, at the moment the Democrat party is offering 50 shades of grey as alternatives for their candidates... so this guys only feature of interest is that nobody noticed him and he didn't get to say much.... ie they are picking out the underdog... but the thing is that deep state owns the race course so they are all their dogs... they could care less who gets picked... they are all going to do as they are told... or else.

Of course he is asian... so there is that... the democrats had the first black president... they tried for the first female but she was too much of a bitch for a majority to stomach, so now they are going for an asian president... good for them... but white shit, brown shit, yellow shit... shit with red flecks.... it is all shit.

US Senate advances bill giving State Department right to call Russia ‘sponsor of terrorism’

The US Senate Foreign Relations Committee has approved a bill asking the State Department to determine whether Russia falls under criteria of a state sponsor of terrorism, potentially opening a way stricter sanctions.
The US Senate Foreign Relations Committee has approved a bill asking the State Department to determine whether Russia falls under criteria of a state sponsor of terrorism, potentially opening a way stricter sanctions.The pretentiously titled ‘Stopping Malign Activities from Russian Terrorism (SMART) Act’ could potentially bring the already strained relations between Moscow and Washington to a new low.

Introduced by Senator Cory Gardner (R-Colorado) in April, it requires the Secretary of State to give “appropriate congressional committees” a straight answer on whether Russia could be designated a sponsor of terrorism.The bill also requires the State Department to determine and report to Congress whether the militia in the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk republics in eastern Ukraine can be considered “foreign terrorist organizations.” The report should be presented “no later than 90 days” after the proposed law comes into force, should it pass in both Senate and the House and be signed by the president.

So far, the Foreign Relations Committee cleared it to be further debated – and potentially passed – by the Senate.Only a handful of countries have been designated by Washington as state sponsors of terrorism, including Iran, Syria, North Korea and Sudan. Should this bill be approved, it would give the anti-Russian interests in Washington yet another opportunity to slap Moscow with more sanctions.

The committee’s action just a day after Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov visited Washington and met with both State Secretary Mike Pompeo and President Donald Trump. His visit sparked yet another wave of anti-Russian hysteria, among the House Democrats in particular. Congressman Adam Schiff (D-California), who spearheads the Trump impeachment efforts in the House, called it no less than a “success of Russian propaganda.” Lavrov replied by calling such a reaction to “ministerial-level contacts normal to any country” patently absurd.

The AmeriPigs are going full retard. This bill is another brazen SLAP to the face of Russia. These Sanctions will never go away and will only get worse no matter how much "Self Restraint" Russia imposes to itself in dealing with these NATO Swines! Time for Russia to take off the gloves and Retaliate with a swift and painful counter attack. Bring down America's economy. Push America to the brink of collapse. Even if it risks World War 3, when America starts getting aggressive at least the world will know who started Humanity's extinction. Russia needs to take back its Former soviet territories and start a process of Russification of other ethnic groups across the entire country. This is the only way to make a solid Russian society that will last for a Thousand years.

The Russian people should be celebrating this level of ignorance, they should be dancing in the streets, because the west is stuck in a self destructive spiral and by getting them to reject Russia it prevents them from building relations and ties and taking you down with them... think of them as a parasitic worm... a tape worm... that is rejecting Russia... Russia is a nice big slightly overweight healthy boy with chubby red cheeks... something an old worn out tape worm could gorge on for another century or so... that enormous resource of energy and material and just land, open land...

It wouldn't help the worm.... but it would prolong it existence and extend its reach with the resources of Russia to fuel it... but without change the richest dozen or so people in the US would just get richer and Russia would end up being starved of money while the money and resources are directed to the people who already have too much money now.

The west is not actually a tape worm, it is more like a head crab from the Half Life computer game series... Russia would mutate and become deformed and lose its gender and identity and become a zombie slave to carry around the rich and do their bidding...

If the west had embraced Russia and treated it as an equal in the 1990s and not moved NATO from western europe into eastern europe and on to former soviet republics, but instead sent US troops home to the US and dropped the weapons budget 50% they could have invested in roads and rail and bridges, and invested in clean green technology and created jobs across the US Russia and China would not be anything like as strong as they are now but they would be so integrated into the international community that US control of international structures would mean control of Russia and China now too they would be too attached to the system to survive leaving it.

By rejecting Russia all these years and not showing any interest in helping her when she needed it, Russia has grown up and become an independent country... the west now thinks sanctions will force her to comply but there is no friendship there no loyalty... the west basically took advantage while she was weak in the 1990s and she remembers that so when Americans say Russia owes America for saving them from Communism... it means nothing to Russians at all.

This is another step that will force Russia to want to create partnerships and deals and relationships with countries not tied to the west... countries in Africa and Asia and central and south america... which is actually very good for those countries but also for Russia too.

The west is the easy option, but it comes with so many strings... strings that are meant to be pulled to hold you back and stop you being a rival to them that you are just better off looking elsewhere... any number of countries around the world will trade free and fair without demanding Russia bend to their morals and expecting Russia to not demand they bend to theirs.

When I go to a book shop to buy a book I don't first ask that the owner is a good person or of this or that religion, or does not beat up his wife or children... that is none of my business and my life is none of his... how would I feel if he found out I enjoyed hunting... if he is a vegan is it OK for him to ban me from his shop in protest?

That is what the west does all the time. They use their money and power as a weapon to force other countries to conform. Russia does not do that and its currency is under valued so its products are not insanely expensive... why would you not buy from them instead?

Facts have no bearing on the laws passed by the chimps in the US legislature. There is not a single incident involving
a bombing of civilians by Donbass rebels. By contrast, the Kiev regime has staged clear terrorist acts such as the
cafe bombing that killed the leader of the DNR and civilian bystanders. The only thing that these zombie chimps in the
USA have supposedly is MH17. But even if it was the Donbass rebels that shot it down, there is no terrorist motive.
MH17 served no political or military purpose for the rebels. But it sure did serve as a convenient hate propaganda
locus for Kiev regime backers. Evidence points to MH17 having been shot down by the Kiev regime forces. It is possible
that it was a deliberate attack since the regime clowns mistook the Malaysian jet for Putin's presidential jet.

We see this absurd inversion of reality in Syria as well. The same maggot infested chimps passed sanctions on the
Syrian government for supposedly running oil via ISIS. That's right, the ISIS theft of oil from Syria to Turkey
and Iraq somehow was Assad's fault. The mind boggles.

But such rotten imperial hubris can't go on forever. Meta-stable branches detached from the equilibrium state inevitably
collapse.

When the US implodes it is probably going to be messy and those tied up with US companies are going to lose big time, so the more separation between Russia and the US the better it is for Russia... I mean what happens to the UK when US companies buy their healthcare service and then the US goes tits up?

GarryB wrote:When the US implodes it is probably going to be messy and those tied up with US companies are going to lose big time, so the more separation between Russia and the US the better it is for Russia... I mean what happens to the UK when US companies buy their healthcare service and then the US goes tits up?

At some point the dollar and the pound are going to be worthless. Relying on these "assets" in the long run is suicidal. So Russia
needs to be economically sovereign. It is big enough to be able sustain such an economic regime. Yaps like Kudrin and the other
5th column liberasts treat Russia as if it was something smaller than the Baltic chihuahua statelets. In reality, Russia is an
economic superpower. But it does not need to suck dry any colonies to have this power.

Exactly... it has the privilege of being in the power range of a colonial power, but with its own natural resources to not need colonies around the world to support development and growth.

Putin said no to the locusts wanting to use those resources, so Putin is bad and has to go... but most Russians must realise that another Yeltsin might create a short term bubble where they think they have won the lotto and are going to experience the western dream... a bit like the Ukraine just after they toppled their democratically elected leader... but they can see how that turned out... now the bubble has burst because they don't have much left to pick clean so we see the US president is no longer interested in them any more and is much more interested... like some EU leaders in better relations with Russia because Russia has all those resources that the Ukraine hasn't got.

You are the most beautiful girl in the world and they will love you for ever till you put out and then they will treat you like a whore... they wont phone you and they certainly wont put a ring on your finger...