Russia - USA Relations

LMFS wrote:This Is How the U.S. Does ‘Dialogue’

Pepe Escobar
January 13, 2022


https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2022/01/13/this-is-how-us-does-dialogue/

This part is especially interesting.

"So welcome to Instagrammed Irrationalism. What happens next? Most possibly a provocation, with the possibility, for instance, of a chemical black ops to be blamed on Russia, followed by – what else – more sanctions.

The package is ready. It comes in the form of a bill by Dem senators supported by the White House to bring “severe costs” to the Russian economy in case Moscow finally answers their prayers and “invades” Ukraine.

Sanctions would directly hit President Putin, Prime Minister Mishustin, Foreign Minister Lavrov, the Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces Gen Gerasimov, and “commanders of various branches of the Armed Forces, including the Air Force and Navy.”

Targeted banks and financial institutions include Sberbank, VTB, Gazprombank, Moscow Credit Bank, Alfa-Bank, Otkritie Bank, PSB, Sovcombank, Transcapitalbank, and the Russian Direct Investment Fund. They would all be cut off from SWIFT.

If this bill sounds like a declaration of war, that’s because it is. Call it the American version of “dialogue”.


I think a major provocation is coming.

The US cannot conduct anything else that it has not already done since 2011 magnitsky act, or some variation of the 2015 Obama sanctions.

The true provocation will come next week, when Iranian president is in Moscow. Wait to see what kind of deals will be made there.

And then 3 weeks later , during personal invitation by comrade Xi , to Putin, the announcement of a fully fledged alliance. At Peking Winter Olympics

Not only this, but Russia will begin to build the ABM system for China, and potentially a weaker version of the Zircon lite for Chinese navy, giving them dominance in the first island chain.

Russia can alter the balance of forces of all Eurasia.

Then we also have the announcement by Ryabkov, of obvious measures in latin America.

Russia needs rapid reaction forces to save USA.

USA is where USSR was in 1985. They are gerontocratic system which is being destroyed by own intelligentsia and minorities.

Their Yeltsin came in 2016, Mr. Trump, and he like Yeltsin struggles against the American Politburo. But much like Yeltsin, there is a mandate for reform in the country, being opposed by a radical sect of some 15 to 20 millions , which are of the leftist Transmutant party that basically will resort to separatism , in 2024 when they cannot maintain the effectiveness of their regime.

They are advocating for separatism, their California, Seattle, New Yorkian transformer leftists, believe they have the GDP of Germany. They do not understand how dire the situation they push the US to.

So Russia must be present in Cuba and Venezuela, possibly Mexico, in order to send CSTO in there , and pacify hostilities that will erupt around 2024.

Their army is currently conducting urban warfare drills and their national guard is holding the fort down by the capitol, and the FBI does it's best suppressing the American Spring, but the problem is, it is not a color revolution. American discontent is grass roots, as insane as it sounds, their people will kill each other, without command. By a miracle in 2020 the rittenhouse scenario was not applied to the country.

Russia must be present to preserve America in it's current form. We cannot run the risk of American nuclear weapons falling to Qanon, or Antifa.

Probably a rapid reaction force of AN124, Tu160, and Su57 will be needed there to react rapidly when the chechen scenario is applied to that state.

Antifa and BLM are Soros puppets and already being forgotten about.   They were dispatched to stage what amounts to a colour coup
against Trump.   Trump is not a Yeltsin since he is not a comprador to rotten globalist elites.   Biden is more like Yeltsin.  

Americans are unhinged in their exceptionalism delusions.   Patton proposed to wipe the USSR ("Russia") out in 1945.   This
insane drivel is repeated by US conservatives today (cf. Louder with Crowder who is a Youtuber and represents typical
US chest thumping chauvinism).   So even the more sane end of the US political spectrum is still f*cked in the head.  

Russia needs to let the natural progression of things in the US proceed.   US elites are desperate because the gravy train they enjoyed
since the late 1800s is shrinking.   The US is just another colonial empire that subsists on the tribute of its colonies.   This
tribute goes to its owner class that then trickle it down to the peasants (and that is exactly what most Americans are).  
As the GDP of the un-west grows (it was 30% in 1970 and is now almost 70%) the tribute shrinks.   It is not a pure zero sum
game, but countries that turn to China for investment are not going to keep feeding western parasites.   China is an existential
threat to the US today and Russia is quickly moving into this category as well.   Russia demonstrates to the planet that democracy
does not require oligarch parasite capitalism.   The elected head of the country can make economic decisions that benefit the
vast majority of the citizens and does not need to kiss corporate ass first and foremost.   Every freaking western leader is a
total corporate asslick.

As the tribute flow shrinks, the US and western elites cannot sacrifice for the peasants as I think they have been doing since
before 2008.  The Great Reset is nothing more than a transition plan for the peasants to get poorer.   But it is not going to go
according to plan.   Instead there will be infighting over the shrinking pie.   The cunning plan by US elites to use identity politics
to divide and rule is going to come back and bite their asses off.   If a civil war starts in the US, then the elites are going to
sink with it.  There will not be some hyperpower emerging when one of the sides wins.   The pie will still be shrinking and in fact,
it will have collapsed in size during the civil war since the US will not have resources to send colonial marines to suppress the colonies.

We are headed for a major transition in the world order.   It is a very dangerous time since it is possible that the lunatics in the US
will go for the nuclear suicide option.

flamming_python wrote:I suspect Russia will act in Montenegro, it's needed for a supply line to Serbia

Some sort of Russian-Serbian Maidan, or whatever

That place is owned by Albanian cartels and operated by Croatian intelligence services (entire ruling class are wannabe Croats except without any semblance of posh vibe usually associated with Croats, semiliterate hillbillies basically)

There won't be anything Russia related in Monetengo anymore

Russia could easily allow Latin American countries part of the csto. Maybe get them into a Beijing + Moscow group.

Play the US games in other countries.

Nothing US can do anymore. They already tried multiple of times in Venezuela.

US won't invade that easily either.

You want "security guarantee's"? Earn them, the hard fought way. The Americans earn theirs their way (whatever your opinions of it that may be). But to beg..... how low can you fall under the veneer of "responsible politics" and "strategic patience"...

Nobody is begging... Putin stated Russias position and asked for guarantees... I very much doubt he expected any at all, but either way Russias position is now clear.

When the west crosses these red lines, which they want to do and probably would have done anyway... there was no point spelling them out if they didn't think they needed to say something... then Russia will push the wests buttons and cross some of their red lines... they are not going to bomb places or invade anyone, but things the west get all precious about will be places for Russia to push.

It's a failed policy. As shown today. Appeasement more often than not doesn't work - specially when dealing with Anglo-Saxons/Germans (what is history if not a guide). The Romans knew how to deal with them... take a book and read.

This is not appeasement... Russia has not given up anything at all... they have just stated their concerns publicly... the west can continue to ignore them like they have for the last 30 years... and I rather suspect they will... but unlike in the past, Russia has stated its red lines so it wont just ignore when they are crossed... I rather suspect there will be counter moves in response... which is what is new.

Not begging and not backing down and not just responding but also acting in their own interests and ignoring western interests... which is something the US excels at but is not used to Russia doing.... but they better get used to it.

Those responsible for such failed policies would obviously in a perfect world see the door out,

If that were the case there would be no western hemisphere left... all their clever plays have backfired and produced real gains and real independence for Russia to the point where they are now able to do this...

Not even at the height of friendly Cuban-Soviet relations did the Soviets give Cuba a defense/security pact like the U.S has with Japan or Korea

The US currently occupies Japan and South Korea like the imperial power they are... their security guarantees are merely to protect the troops they have stationed there... ask the Afghans.

What we see is that for little to no bloodshed, Russia has regathered the entire former soviet union.

Not all of it... quite a few bits are not worth it...

They made some mistakes in the past on this front. But everyone, including lowly rank soldiers, in their criticism of the relationship, somehow point that the Soviets never gave the security pact.... you can only imagine what those with brains really think.

Just shows the western mentality though doesn't it... countries can't just be friends... willing to provide help when needed without having to be asked... it has to be in writing, but even then you guys screw each other over when it suits.

BTW despite all your holier than thou crap no security agreement with a western country was ever worth a damn anyway....

You would call it a chess move... a block till you were in a position to butcher them and steal their stuff, or to use it as justification for attacking someone else and getting all their stuff.

Fun times ahead.... cause bluffs are easy to call out.

Agree on both counts which is why I am so happy... Putin is not one to mix words or betray his purpose... this is not something the west can call him on without consequences... the poker game has been going on for quite some time now and while Putin started with a terrible hand that had good potential he is playing with a group of idiots led by a chief idiot that makes George Bush Jnr look clever... the amount of stupid in the west over Russia is embarassing, but every time they get it wrong... Putin master bond villain... or Trump or some other excuse... so the broken system never gets fixed and just keeps digging a deeper and deeper hole for itself... eventually the west is going to have to start relying on the good will of its large neighbour and honestly I don't think there is much left.

I guess I should know better as the average idiot on the net amounts to billions... law of averages applies.

There is wrong and there is willfully wrong.... and I fully understand.... you clearly believe western bullshit about west = right and anything else = wrong.... yeah we are total but imagine if China or Russia were in charge... ignoring the fact that nobody should be in charge actually and that nobody would actually do a better job than self interested narcissists like the US.

Congratulations on lowering the average for this forum.

Kinda funny how so many continue to try to pin my nationality down to use that against me somehow... even with all the hints I've dropped around..... funny to see.

Don't really care... your views are enough to show you are wrong.

While kosovo justified just about everything that took place around 2015.

Actually completely ignored in the west but Kosovo declaring independence created the situation in Georgia and South Ossetia.

When Kosovo declared independence Russia opened its borders to Abkhazia and South Ossetia... with the opening of free trade both regions were no longer bound to Tiblisi and were able to thrive... that is why the tie eater invaded... because he knew the longer he left it the harder it would be to get it back by any means including force.

He picked the weaker of the two and attacked... and lost everything.

As for Russia projecting power around the periphery it has done much more including installing the orange president of America

Funny, but not true... Russia wouldn't interfere in US elections because 90kgs of shit or 85kgs of shit is still shit in anyones language... and sometimes the smaller piles are the hardest to reason with.

the US navy wont be intercepting zircons, not when its GBI cannot intercept pre planned re entry of satellite and missiles.

The US will successfully intercept Zircon missiles... mostly with the Pentagon building and a few other buildings along that coast.

somehow trying to spin that Serbians are better off this way....

They are trying to do the best with what they have.... Russia was in no better situation to help them than the US was to help the Georgian forces invade South Ossetia...

The west is broken... they just need to ride it out.

Those who got access to russian achieves have stated it's even more than 31m, in the end, the true extent will never be known.

The surviving nazis that strangely got high up jobs within HATO really really fast, actually blamed the nazis and then denied being one when the war ended, but it was all the german soldiers who killed people with no consequence. Women soviet soldiers were murdered and never taken prisoner, though rape was often something that happened before the bullet.

It was a genuine genocide and easily explains why the people who suffered the most under Stalins rule chose to fight the invaders...

Trolls these days.

Trust that there are maps of this at Langley and Vauxhall Cross. The real ones, should it ever happen.

Is it an accident that the rest of the world is black and labelled the Jewish Republic?

The west has been making delusional maps for centuries... can't expect them to stop now... doesn't mean anything though... it is the 2020s... not the 1920s when you could get away with that...

Just like the American bases on the border with Russia. An easy target for Russia. The problem is that the project 885M or 949AM submarine off the US East and West coast is already a very difficult target. The 949AM from 72 Cirkon has the impact of the SSBN.In this situation, Russia is in a better position than the USA. Much of the US economy is on the coast.

Not to mention Poseidon... for shifting the coast...

But it's true, if the noise is too uncomfortable on the conditioning, ignoring will do just the trick. Can't catch feels if you can't see it. "Ignorance is bliss" .... "I wanna be someone important, like an actor" "I want to remember nothing, you hear me, nothing".

Denial to the end.... the real irony is that on a pro western forum you would have been banned long ago for not drinking from the fountain of coolaide...

Till then beware Russia puts back the orange phenom back in the Casablanca via hacking come 2024, I'm sure CNN will be talking all about it

It is Russian interference only if he wins... and his whole term asking for investigations to prove it was a mistake... except when a democrat wins of course... then any irregularities.... well irregularities has regularities in it so it is fine... move on or you are a domestic terrorist for asking for a recount...

Russia slept on the Ukraine affair or they saw an opportunity to cut out the tumor is Ukraine and get what was really important - Crimea.

Ukraine was never their ally so there was nothing to lose... even now they say they have nothing in the game... this is ukrainians vs ukrainians... but of course for many Russians ukraine is russia so they do... but until these ukrainians decide they want to be Russians again... what should moscow be doing for them?

Right now they are doing the bare minimum, but then they seem to be a sensible well organised and well motivated group who just need a few things and a few bits of help you can't buy from the blackmarket... and they are likely getting that.

Does this mean the gloves are off internationally for Russia?

I don't think they will be bombing or invading or regime changing like the west does, but I don't think they will sit back and passively react and respond when attacked or provoked. They are likely to start acting in their own interests, even when it conflicts with western interests... you know... the way the west has been acting... forever...

Doing what America does overseas? Maybe over assistance to allied states in south and central America? Maybe even keeping some bombers and missiles in their lands?

Russia has largely kept out of the americas and africa up until now... I think expanding their navy and also expanding their trade ties will also help them bypass western sanctions and expand their economy and also boost the growth and development of the countries they seek to trade with.

Someone else suggested that as nothing that didn't have any effect on DC politicians would have any effect then some kind of no military hit on the US mainland, like shutting down electricity networks, would be needed to jerk them into reality.

Well accusations of Russian government supported hacking into energy infrastructure without proof and without apology when proven wrong might lead to said government hacking attack, though that would be a slippery slope... the US has already justified electronic attacks on Russia for various claimed attacks...

Personally, apart from economically and politically isolating itself from the US and EU and building trade ties with the rest of the world, I don't think they need to do a lot else.

The West should be careful what path they choose to walk

After rejecting equal partnership all these years I wouldn't trust them now even if they made the offer... the fine print on page 2,364 would be... our fingers are crossed when we signed this so we didn't mean it...

Trump might not have been in the pocket of the usual military industrial complex elites in the US but he was in the pocket of the Jewish lobby.
Because of that you saw a lot of misguided policies like breaking the deal with Iran, moving US embassy to Jerusalem, recognizing Israel's annexation of the Golan Heights, etc.

Montenegro has had heavy Chinese investment. Any gateway to the EU in Southeastern Europe has been under their purview in the past decade.

lancelot wrote:Trump might not have been in the pocket of the usual military industrial complex elites in the US but he was in the pocket of the Jewish lobby.
Because of that you saw a lot of misguided policies like breaking the deal with Iran, moving US embassy to Jerusalem, recognizing Israel's annexation of the Golan Heights, etc.

Montenegro has had heavy Chinese investment. Any gateway to the EU in Southeastern Europe has been under their purview in the past decade.

That's the key here - money.

China can easily force change in Europe but hasn't done it yet. I think they are waiting to see results of hiw EU will handle the anti Chinese sentiments that exist in the Baltic chihuahua states.

It is obviously politics. Russia is setting the tone instead of being taken for a ride by the propaganda BS from NATzO.

ALAMO wrote:What we are witnessing, is Russia positioning itself in a space, where everything can follow.
Expect the unexpected.

Agree on that.

Russia has acted VERY restrained for the last 20 years and allowed the West to overplay their hand very, very badly. Now Russia has all the cards still in their hand and each one of them that they use will mean a significant loss for the empire, while their rivals have already spent most of theirs with little effect. Coupled with the fact that the West has lost the command of the world's productive economy to China, they will not be able to "reset" or "build back better" anything. The alliance between Russia and China is a cleverly devised, timely activated mortal threat for the West I am not sure they are going to be able to overcome.

EDIT: just a fresh sample of how Russia can perfectly survive the isolation from the West thanks to China:

Trade turnover between Russia and China gained 35.8% in 2021 - Chinese Customs
The rate surged to record-breaking $146.88 bln in 2021

https://tass.com/economy/1387967

Interesting flight and timing, Havana then Caracas.


Gerjon | חריון
@Gerjon_
·
4h
More: Russian Government Tupolev Tu-154M reg. Flag of RussiaRA-85019 is back up!

She popped back up heading SE over the Carribean Sea. To me, it looks like she may have been in Flag of CubaCuba.








(My highlight)


[i]MOSCOW (AP) — Russia raised the stakes Thursday in its dispute with the West over Ukraine and NATO’s expansion when a top diplomat refused to rule out a military deployment to Cuba and Venezuela if tensions with the United States escalate.

Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said he could “neither confirm nor exclude” the possibility of Russia sending military assets to Latin America if the U.S. and its allies don’t curtail their military activities on Russia’s doorstep.

“It all depends on the action by our U.S. counterparts,” the minister said in an interview with Russian television network RTVI, citing Russian President Vladimir Putin’s warning that Moscow could take unspecified “military-technical measures” if the U.S. and its allies fail to heed its demands.

U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan dismissed the statements about a possible Russian deployment to Cuba and Venezuela as “bluster in the public commentary.”[/i]

I don't think China will stand still if this escalates between NATO and Russia, not because of love for Russia, but because the Chinese know very well that they are also part of the NATO "package" and that they are next. I am convinced that they are now (NATO) stinging China as well.

The American political and military leadership wants to rule the whole world through the NATO pact, so they suddenly want Sweden and Finland in the NATO pact. Finland in NATO ? Northern fleet and Saint Petersburg at the target of American cruise missiles and planes ? I dont think so, Russia will not allow it.
For decades, the NATO pact and Western governments have pursued the exactly same model; change of government, colorful revolutions, sanctions. We in Serbia know that best. I am a Serb who fled Croatia and I lived 20 kilometers from the notorious Jasenovac concentration camp from World War II.
In every American film, Russia is presented (often Serbs too) as a country of criminals, toothless alcoholics, prostitutes, as well as a country that occupies other countries. Most people in western countries think of russia what they see in movies. John Wick kills dozens of Russians, as does Denzel in Equalizer. And Rambo was "the best" (only First blood is a great movie) because he has killed almost THE ENTIRE Russian Army in Afghanistan.
And Lavrov has said "our patience is running out".

For example; We have churches in Serbia that are 300+ years oleder than Columbus' discovery of America, but we are "savages" in the Western media. Serbia has always been on the side of the victorious countries in both world wars, Not to mention Greece and its influence on the development of education in the Roman Empire; greeks mathematicians, astronomers, philosophers, poets. Greece is the mother of Europe.

If the NATO offensive into Georgia would be considered case blue 2 with the use of SS mechanized and panzer divisions in Ukrainian ATO, then Donbass resistance at ilovaisk and Debaltseve is very much a Stalingrad 2, with fierce fighting taking place bringing the NATO Army Group South into a grinding halt.

We could use Syria as a Operation Uranus 2, again NATO Wehrmacht and fanatic SS isis forces double enveloped the region and threatened the Caucasus with blitzkrieg.

The blitzkrieg failed with ISIS forces decimated by VKS , and Wehrmacht with General Trumpf tomahawk launches were intercepted at shayrat, while the red army retook Aleppo and Palmyra consolidating the gains.

There were many successes in the southern theatre ,

While in response the high Ober kommand fuhrers Stoltenberg and Blinken launched Operation Citadel, the final might of NATO army groups were launched into Nagorno Karabakh and Kazakhstan, in modern Kursks. Russia stifled the final blitzkriegs of NATO and broke them in successive battle. Flying the 76th guards airborne into the heart of the battle and finishing it in decisive victory.


but what Ryabkov, Lavrov, Putin, Shoigu, and generally the High Stavka command led by Marshall Gerasimov are announcing is really the commencement of Operation Bagration 2.

Bagration 2 will take the might of the red army to the heart of the Nazi (NATO) beast. It will be series of devastating strikes to Geopolitical Reich of NATO ending with a modern battle of Berlin. NATO will fight to the last man woman and transformer to preserve their reich. Currently Biden fuhrer is moving non existent army groups around in his basement. Jodl and krebs , merkel and scholz desperately explain the situation but the fuhrer is not comprehending.

His most fanatical the BLM jugend commander farkas and blinken continue to believe in the power of the reich, but the fuhrer knows, it was a bridge too far…

If America did fall to balkanization it would be planned by our own elites. Things might be dire, our military is hopelessly corrupt and its generals are all politicians. But would never fall to extreme leftists. Though our overlords might adopt some of the madness our leftist freaks preach.

Also dont fall into the propaganda of Qanon. I was there when it started. /pol/'s CBTS threads. I was mildly interested till maybe the tenth thread. By the six hundredth it had long become a meme. Most people hoped there were "white hats" within positions of power that might be the fulcrum point of real change. Sadly though there are a few good people within the vast beaurocracies of power here in America, those at the very top were chosen or blackmailed or bribed. Been happening for a long time. You guys might have seen my threads in the general board concerning the Dutroux affair and franklin coverup. The horrific corruption impacts all political parties and cliques. The worst of it had gone on and passed down a couple generations. Note 5hat I mention the Dutroux affair and franklin coverup. These are examples of elite pedophile rings in the highest levels of power. It is worse than anything from pizzagate and yet it's all that most usually talk about. That is the problem with the Qanon mess. It is a canard used by the elites to shut down the truth. Much of what people that were involved in Qanon said was either completely true or had serious grains of truth. What is essential to it is this. That if even a small part of what they were saying was true, it means the corruption within power is horrific and hopelessly vast in in scope.

So I always correct those who talk of Qanon. 96 percent of those involved were good hard working conservative people who have grown aware of the corruption and reject the neocons as well as the neolibs. In fact of all groups the elites fear it isnt the antifa types but the populist conservatives.

Then you underestimate the ideological leaning of the US military. See General Milley and Secdef Austin. Also remember the generals are fighting among themselves currently.

Also you underestimate the extreme nature of the ideologues like Stephen Marche who believe US should be balkanized.

For Russia this is a disaster. Especially if key states gain nuclear supremacy over one another.

Yes the 15 to 20 million radical left who control San francisco, Seattle , New York, Chicago, and most urban centers, are pushing for balkanization as they see they cannot maintain federal control for too long.

They are like the corrupt soviet elite who fractured USSR to retain their own political power.

That's all they care about, they themselves encourage the freak show they manage to prop themselves up.

What do you expect of PoliSci and sociology majors masquerading as technical experts? They use terms like "our democracy" as a veneer of legitimacy. The only problem is, they are dead serious about this perceived power.

Americans already calling off bluffs? That was quick....

https://www.rt.com/russia/546021-moscow-presence-cuba-venezuela/

US will act ‘decisively’ if Russia deploys military to Cuba or Venezuela – White House


United States National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan called the idea “bluster in the public commentary” and noted that the deployment of Russian military infrastructure to Latin America was not a point of discussion at the recent Russia-US Strategic Stability Dialogue in Geneva.

“If Russia were to move in that direction, we would deal with it decisively,” he said, responding to a question from a journalist.

I do happen to agree that it's bluff... but open to be wrong of course.

Meanwhile NATO (by extension the U.S) has the Baltic States under its umbrella in an official security pact. Power differences... not transactional, reactionary defense.

dude you've already been trashed on this thread so often, your literally here taking the piss

Operation Gideon - Luke Denman and Airan Berry are doing the John McCain pose after bay of pigs 2

Wagner ate Muricans for lunch and handed them off to Maduro.

So who's bluffing?

Still waiting on yankee doodle to do something

JohninMK wrote:

U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan dismissed the statements about a possible Russian deployment to Cuba and Venezuela as “bluster in the public commentary.”[/i]

What a piece of shit. The same tactic as when the pieces of shit said that Russia didn't fire on the British ship in Crimean waters.

Hopefully Russia calls them on it right soon. Thankfully it looks like one plane is already there to stake things out.