RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

Isos wrote:http://tass.com/defense/1056060

Russia starts building two frigate for India.

So at the end are those ships new or those which were already started for RuN? 4 years should be to long for already started ships IMHO.

New ones. India ordered 4 of them. Russia is building two of them and india will build another two.

The ones you are talking about are more likely to go to Russia unless they sell it to an arab state. Unused new build ships are easy to sell as the client can get quickly. Algeria, UAE, saudi arabia, vietnam ... all could be interested.

Grigorovitch seems to be very good ships. India has similar but bigger domestic frigate with israeli barak 8 missiles (plus shtil) and still buys grigorovitch instead. That means a lot.

Isos wrote:http://tass.com/defense/1056060

Russia starts building two frigate for India.

It was started a long time ago...

https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=497689&lang=RU

They have been sitting stranded with no engines.

Vladimir79 wrote:

Isos wrote:http://tass.com/defense/1056060

Russia starts building two frigate for India.

It was started a long time ago...

https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=497689&lang=RU

They have been sitting stranded with no engines.

Then TASS is late.

But in your link, that is from dec 2018, it is also said they will start work in the first months of 2019. It is not said they have started the work back then. That's what I understood from the auto translation.

Engines will most likely come from germany or ukraine as export ships are not sanctioned by EU.

Isos wrote:
Then TASS is late.

But in your link, that is from dec 2018, it is also said they will start work in the first months of 2019. It is not said they have started the work back then. That's what I understood from the auto translation.

Engines will most likely come from germany or ukraine as export ships are not sanctioned by EU.

Probably they have not communicated it in a very clear way. To me as well the times are a bit long, since previous taiwar frigates were delivered to india after 3 years from starting construction, and the first 2 frigates of this new contract are already half built...

Maybe they agreed longer times in order not to have problems in case of delays, or if they need to concentrate on Russian Navy orders...


Anyway, I do not expect them to build additional frigates of these type, if not per additional exports.
If they had a reliable supplier of engines for 11356 frigates it would be a nice ship to export to many other countries (e.g. Egypt, Algeria, Vietnam, etc).


However Russia does not produce the engines for such ships (ukraine made an exception for India) and I do not see the advantage of redesigning the ships to be compatible with the propulsion system of gorshkov class.

After finishing with those ships for India the resources of Yantar would be much better used producing gorshkov frigates or gorshkov-m frigates/destroyers.

Isos wrote:

Then TASS is late.

But in your link, that is from dec 2018, it is also said they will start work in the first months of 2019. It is not said they have started the work back then. That's what I understood from the auto translation.

Engines will most likely come from germany or ukraine as export ships are not sanctioned by EU.

It says they are resuming work on the hulls of Admiral Butakov and Admiral Istomin which are in varying states of readiness.

The engines will come from Ukraine and have been collecting dust for several years. The ships must be towed to India for their installation.

Russian shipbuilders launch work to build frigates for Indian Navy

Russia and India signed contracts in November 2018 on the delivery of four Project 11356 frigates

MOSCOW, April 26. /TASS/. Russia’s Yantar Shipyard on the Baltic coast has launched work to build two Project 11356 frigates for the Indian Navy, the press office of Russia’s state arms exporter Rosoboronexport reported on Friday.

"Rosoboronexport sees the Yantar Shipyard’s big potential for developing and producing hi-tech products supplied as part of military and technical cooperation. Its capacities have already produced hardware for exports worth over $1 billion and today the Shipyard has started fulfilling one of the largest contracts for India’s Navy," the state arms exporter’s press office quoted Rosoboronexport CEO Alexander Mikheyev as saying.

The Rosoboronexport chief executive made this statement during his working tip to Kaliningrad where he met with Kaliningrad Region Governor Anton Alikhanov, Yantar Shipyard CEO Eduard Yefimov and a delegation of India’s Defense Ministry led by First Deputy Defense Secretary Sanjay Mitra.

As was reported earlier, Russia and India signed contracts in November 2018 on the delivery of four Project 11356 frigates. Under the deal, two frigates will be built at Russia’s Yantar Shipyard on the Baltic coast and the other two will be constructed at India’s Goa Shipyard Limited (GSL). Head of Russia’s United Shipbuilding Corporation Alexei Rakhmanov earlier said that the first Project 11356 frigates for India would be built in Russia within three years.

The preparations for fulfilling this contract topped the agenda of a meeting between India’s delegation and the management of the Yantar Shipyard and Rosoboronexport. The Shipyard previously built warships of this type for the Indian Navy.

Project 11356 frigates are designed to deliver strikes against enemy surface ships and submarines in the coastal and oceanic zones and fight air targets both independently and as part of a naval group. The warships of this type are armed with A-190 100mm artillery guns, striking missile and air defense systems, including Kalibr and Shtil complexes and torpedo tubes. The frigates displace 3,620 tonnes, are 124.8 meters long, develop a speed of 30 knots and have an operating range of 4,850 miles. The frigates can carry a Ka-27 helicopter and its modification.


More:
http://tass.com/defense/1056060

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2019/may/7063-indian-navy-to-get-10-ka-31-helicopters-from-russia.html
10 Ka 31 AEW for India for about 450M euros

Four GTA M7N-1E Zori-Mashproekt gas-turbine units for two frigates of Project 11356 have already been sent to India via Russia (two for each frigate, project 11356)

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3650451.html

I would have been happier to read that the ships had new Russian propulsion systems instead of orc ones.

Yeah, if you are travelling through an area and a starving puppy comes up to you... you can give it a snack and prolong its suffering for a day or a week... or you can help it by either putting a bullet in its head, or adopting it and taking it home.

The Ukraine has made it clear they don't want anything to do with Russia, so the bullet is the kindest thing you could do.

What sort of spares support can they expect from the Ukraine?

How much will the costs increase over time to keep that company going...

I doubt it would actually be that cheap... they know the Indians can't buy those engines from anyone else at the moment.

https://theprint.in/defence/wiser-after-balakot-india-orders-missiles-worth-700-million-from-russia/249553/

New Delhi: After the Balakot strike and the dogfight with the Pakistani air force in February, India is looking to increase its stockpile of missiles with the Modi government ordering weaponry worth about $700 million for the Indian Air Force from Russia.
These include air-to-air missiles with an extended range as well air-to-surface missiles, ThePrint has learnt.
Highly placed sources said close to 300 short-range air-to-air missiles, the R-73, and 400 medium-range air-to-air guided missiles, the RVV-AE, also known as the R-77, have been ordered.

I do not know how credible this source is.

marat wrote:https://theprint.in/defence/wiser-after-balakot-india-orders-missiles-worth-700-million-from-russia/249553/

New Delhi: After the Balakot strike and the dogfight with the Pakistani air force in February, India is looking to increase its stockpile of missiles with the Modi government ordering weaponry worth about $700 million for the Indian Air Force from Russia.
These include air-to-air missiles with an extended range as well air-to-surface missiles, ThePrint has learnt.
Highly placed sources said close to 300 short-range air-to-air missiles, the R-73, and 400 medium-range air-to-air guided missiles, the RVV-AE, also known as the R-77, have been ordered.

I do not know how credible this source is.

I thought they were going for Israeli missiles

I thought they were going for Israeli missiles

Not that easy. They need russian permission first, then they need russians to upgrade the mki for israeli missiles. Unlikely to happen.

The most weired is that they didn't ordered the 110km version instead of the 80km while they complained about the range.

Isos wrote:The most weired is that they didn't ordered the 110km version instead of the 80km while they complained about the range.

Yeah I know....reportedly they've been offered the new versions of both the R-77 and R-73

[quote="Isos"]

The most weired is that they didn't ordered the 110km version instead of the 80km while they complained about the range.

who knows india ordered this but being kept under wraps like many such deals with Russia ?

Maybe they're getting the new versions after all...

It is believed that the missiles that it has been testing at the eastern base are RVV-MD short-range missiles, RVV-SD medium-range missiles, and RVV-BD beyond visual range missiles - the next generation of Vympel’s air-to-air missiles.

Vympel is the manufacturer of the R-73 air-to-air missile, which was used by IAF pilot Abhinandan Varthaman to shoot down a Pakistan Air Force F-16 on 27 February when the two countries engaged in an aerial clash.

The RVV-BD missile weighs 500-kg and features a 60-kg warhead. During the endgame, it is capable of 8g manoeuvring, flying at Mach 6. The RVV-MD is ab export version of the R-74, which has increased anti-jamming protection, including optical jamming.

Earlier, it was reported that the Indian Air Force intended to replace the Su-30 MKI's current close combat missile — the Russian-built Vympel R-73 — with the European ASRAAM heat-seeking close combat air-to-air missile in phases.



India Begins User Trials of Russian Air-to-Air Missiles, Destroys UK-Made Drone in Drill
https://sputniknews.com/military/201906201075979034-india-begins-user-trials-of-russian-air-to-air-missiles-destroys-uk-made-drone-in-drill/

Seeking to keep itself battle-ready in situations like the one post-Balakot aerial strikes, India has signed a deal to acquire ‘Strum Ataka’ anti-tank missile from Russia for its fleet of Mi-35 attack choppers.


“The deal for acquiring ‘Strum Ataka’ anti-tank missiles was signed with Russia under the emergency clauses through which the missiles would be supplied within three months of contract signing,” government sources told ANI. The deal for the missiles is worth around Rs 200 crore and would give an added capability to the Mi-35 attack choppers to take out enemy tanks and other armoured elements.


The Mi-35s are the existing attack choppers of the Indian Air Force and are set to be replaced with the Apache gunships being acquired from the US and slated to be delivered from next month onwards.

India has been trying to acquire the Russian missiles for a long time but the deal has been signed under the emergency provisions after more than a decade.


Last week, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh had given a presentation about the procurements made by the three services under the emergency provisions.

The Indian Air Force has emerged as the frontrunner in terms of weapon acquisition under the emergency procurement, followed by the Indian Army.

The IAF has acquired the Spice-2000 stand-off weapon system along with a number of spare and air to air missile deals with multiple counties under the emergency provisions to equip itself for sudden war.

The Army is in the process of acquiring the Spike anti-tank guided missile from France and Igla-S air defence missiles from Russia under the emergency provisions.

Under the powers given to the three services, they can buy the equipment of their choice within three months at a cost of up to Rs 300 crore per case, government sources said.

The emergency powers were given to the forces within few weeks after the February 14 Pulwama attack in which 40 CRPF personnel were killed, and India started increasing vigil at the borders with Pakistan, sources added.


https://www.livemint.com/news/india/india-signs-rs-200-crore-anti-tank-missile-deal-with-russia-1561902745825.html

That is odd... shturm ataka are two different but related missiles.

The shturm was used in the 1980s on the Hind on the wingtips with four missiles in total ... two on each side while the main under wing pylons normally carried rocket pods... initially 32 shot 57mm calibre pods and later 20 shot 80mm calibre pods.

The Shturm were called AT-6 Spiral by NATO and had a range of 5km and armour penetration of about 550mm, with a flight speed of about 450m/s average.

The Ataka replaced it and looked rather similar with the AT-9 codename from NATO and a range of 6km and an armour penetration of about 850mm with a better warhead, but the longer range reduced average flight speed to about 400m/s, which is still easily supersonic so it hits you before you hear it coming.

Both these missiles were mass produced in enormous numbers and are relatively cheap command guided missiles... the replacement Krisantema is just more of the same with a larger warhead and similar range and speed.

The main differences are that Krisantema is radar guided but can also use laser beam riding guidance, while the Ataka has been upgraded for laser beam riding guidance as well as command guidance.

In many ways these missiles are relatively compact and cheap weapons that offer precision engagements out to reasonable ranges... the Ataka can be carried in single pylon clusters of 8 missiles, so an upgraded Hind could carry 16 missiles plus two 20 shot rocket pods and a cannon.

Much cheaper than Hellfire but probably comparable armour penetration performance but shorter range.

https://tass.com/defense/1067653

India to buy another 18 MKI and more than 20 modernized mig-29 (upg standard ?). They also want to modernize 450 t-90.

Just read that article again... they are replacing the Mi-35s with Apaches which will be arriving shortly, so after a decade of negotiating buying Ataka and Shturm missiles, they rush through an order now for the missiles just as the replacement aircraft is entering service...

I guess it would be useful being able to train their Mi-35 crews in using guided missiles just before they start transfering to the Apache, but it also sounds a bit strange too.

Perhaps they realise the Apaches missiles are going to be rather more expensive to buy than the Ataka missiles which are relatively cheap simple command guided missiles and they want to get stocks of the cheap missiles... so that when the Apache enters service and they find it is not so cheap and simple to operate as the Hind that keeping some Hinds in use might be a good idea.

The troop transport capacity of the Mi-35 is useful sometimes, while the low cost of the Russian weapons makes it easier to justify using them more... who wants to destroy a Toyota with a missile like Hellfire that might cost 500 times more than the truck?

Ahh well... I am sure they have good reasons for doing what they are doing... seems all rather strange to me...

Indian Air Force to Test Yak-130 Fighter-Trainers in Russia - Large Acquisition Expected
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/indian-air-force-to-test-yak-130-fighter-trainers-in-russia-large-acquisition-expected

Post Balakot, the Defence Ministry had given emergency powers to the armed forces to make up for shortages in weapons and ammunition.

In the wake of Balakot, and the Pakistani Air Force's attempts to hit targets in India, foiled by Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman and his colleagues, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has begun looking for new armaments for its fighters.

* For any air force, it is not only about a high-quality fighter, but also, armaments, and in this age, missiles fired from beyond visual range (BVR). Wing Commander Varthaman had fired a short-range Russian R-73 missile at the Pakistan Air Force F-16 on February 27 this year. The IAF has just signed a contract for about 400 R-73s missiles worth around Rs 1,000 crore. The IAF sees the heat-seeking T-73 (with a range of about 30 km) as a low-cost, high-efficiency solution as it can be fired from many of its fighter jets, including the newer MiG-21 Bison, the MiG-29 and the Sukhoi-30MKI.

* India has also asked Russia for more X-31 Anti Radiation Missiles (ARM). These can be fitted on to most Russian designed fighters like the Sukhoi or the MiG-29 and even the French-made Mirage-2000 and are very accurate. These are supersonic air-to-surface missiles and the IAF will get about 250 of them (at a cost of about Rs 1,800 crore) and are effective against radar stations. The IAF had got some ARMs from Russia earlier.

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/strengthening-iaf-after-balakot-india-set-to-acquire-new-russia-armaments/455237

https://tass.com/defense/1070930

"A contract was signed with Russia on delivery of R-27 air-to-air missiles for Su-30MKI fighter jets in the Indian Air Force," the news agency quoted a source as saying.
The contract is reported to be worth over $200 mln. No other details of the deal were reported.