Russia Arms Expo 2013

That's why I find this odd that it would be displayed at RAE. Russia would have no interest in a 20mm gun, why market a french product?

This French gun (which is a good gun by the way) is very widely used and popular, so if you want to sell your products sometimes weapons commonality can be key.

Say for instance a former French colony has this French cannon in service and they really don't want to spend the money to replace it and its ammo as they make it themselves under licence. They do however want a light four wheel vehicle to replace the old WWII vehicles they still use.

Buying a Tigr-M wouldn't be that expensive because any new vehicle will have little in common with a WWII vehicle, and being able to use the guns and other weapons in service on this new vehicle means they just need to buy a new vehicle they don't need to take on a whole new weapon system as well which would make it rather more expensive... perhaps too expensive...

If I'm right they use Russian made equipment too. Artillery systems come to mind.

The French use 155mm Krasnopol-M laser guided artillery shells AFAIK.

I don't know that the Russians will use VBLs themselves as they have a range of similar vehicles and indeed the new Typhoon family of vehicles to come.

I suspect the VBLs will be for export or FSB/MVD ie non military use.

I think the intention is to have the non military forces use non military vehicles to make them seem less military perhaps?

Or it might just fall through like the Iveco deal.

Personally I don't see a point for domestic use when they have the Tigr-M, Volk, Vodnik, and



Skorpion and of course this:



BPM-97

Where does everybody else keep seeing the VBL?
All I can see is the VBCI (well something that looks very similar anyway)

Either I'm being very stupid or everyone else is  

I could definitely see a niche for this VBCIish vehicle in FSB or MVD OMON service
They need an MRAP/mine-protected vehicle for counter-insurgency patrols and general transport.

The Ural and Kamaz Typhoons are both very nice, but both are also unarmed.

Good job on bringing the BPM-97 up; so far it looks like the closest equivelent to the new VBCI.

The BPM-97 (Border Guard Fighting Vehicle) is of course optimised for the Border Guards and their requirements. Compared to the VBCI it has a slightly lower top speed (albeit comparable), but a considerably greater range. Protection and mine-protection may be a little lower but again is not likely to be fundamentally different. In armament terms it's inferior; up to 30mm auto-cannon and grenade launcher. It also weighs a lot less; it has half the number of wheels that the VBCI has but if the VBCI has that 57mm turret fitted and ammo loaded and the BPM-97 has the 30mm turret; it will likely still weigh 2.5x less and would thus have less ground pressure; a greater number of bridges and poor roads would be able to support it.

So judging from all this one can say that it's indeed optimized for the border guards role; where it's unlikely to encounter anything more armoured than a pickup truck and anything more dangerous than a heavy machine-gun or SVD with AP ammo, but where it still needs mine-protection, while range & lower-ground pressure and so on would really be quite important factors in guarding Russia's vast borders with often poor infrastructure.

On the other hand, for counter-insurgency patrols, urban warfare, etc... the VBCI probably doesn't need the range, while the advantages in protection and armament could make all the difference.
The only thing is that it's armament may be excessive, as others have mentioned - the 57mm will penetrate armour a lot better than the 30mm; but for COIN usage and fighting in urban areas against irregulars it's advantages over the 30mm are questionable; there would be nothing there that the 30mm won't be able to penetrate, while it will have a higher rate of fire, less weight and more ammo capacity in the vehicle compared to a 57mm turret.

Overall; I'd still say the new VBCI is best for export. The new Typhoon chassis might turn out to be a better fit for the MVD & FSB; at the very least it won't have any disadvantages compared to the VBCI, and money/logistics can be saved on by not introducing a new armoured vehicle familly to Russian state services.

TR1 wrote:VBL is the little jeep that apparently the border guard is interested in.

Where did you hear that?
Guess I missed something on this thread.

BPM-97 and all of the Vystrel variants are cheap unsophisticated crap.

Huh?  

BPM-97 and all of the Vystrel variants are cheap unsophisticated crap.

It is a light armoured vehicle... it doesn't need to be the death star...

We are talking about a slightly better protected UAZ jeep or something... if you are fitting it with a 57mm high velocity gun then something is wrong.

To be brutally honest something that can take a 30mm cannon turret can probably also take a turret with an 82mm Vasilek auto mortar which would be vastly more useful than a very high velocity 57mm gun.

Bigger HE round... ability to use standard 82mm mortar bombs... direct fire accuracy or indirect fire range...