North Macedonia inter-ethnic violence

This is why I positively HATE Balkan discussion threads - people are very low on understanding (eight policemen died - yet "some people" are showing no respect for the dead whatsoever), but are VERY, VERY hype on passing judgement and are VERY macho on national grandeur...showing no shame whatsoever...
That's been in vogue here for at least the past twelve centuries, and NEVER seems to get out of fashion.
Funny thing is that most claim to be True Orthodox    (as if it's some national flag-waiving thing, and not the obvious contrary)...
Sh_t - I hate ignorant opinions!!! Makes the mind hurt!

One thing that gives hope is that sometimes the Greeks show themselves even more ignorant than the Slavs...and that helps...somewhat.
It doesn't cure all these illnesses though.

I hope most of you don't actually read the whole of this thread (surely there aren't such masochists?)...as most of you deserve none of this Balkan shite!
My apologies if you do though.
But let it be known: this is how things are here!

First, condoleances for the eight soldiers killed in the line of duty, may they rest in peace.

Secondly, things are getting disgustingly racist here. Garry said not to respond and provoke and report it asap, Hannibal Barca is obviously trolling shamelessly, but answering to him in the same tone does no good. I will report this.

I will just say the racism displayed here is pathetic, shame on the perpetrators. I guess this serves as a sad example of why the Yugolsavian tragedy happened. US and their stooges meddling made it all happen, but it was this pathetic and backward mentality that provided the breeding ground for it. Sad.

If you could point to where I've shown the same level of racism as he did - I'm all ears!
Another thing is that Greeks hate Slavs, and I've known this since a very early age.

Yet another thing is that I don't care about being banned - if I did something wrong - I then deserve it!
No point in weaseling myself out of it!

Thanks for reading.

BTW - this has nothing to do with why Yugoslavia broke apart.

Another thing is that Greeks hate Slavs, and I've known this since a very early age

I'm afraid that is terribly wrong friend, it is some greeks (or insert any other social or ethic group here, macedonians, slavs, you name it) that are racist and/or hold backward and extremist views who hate all slavs (or insert any other social or ethnic group here), not all of them.

mack8 wrote:

Another thing is that Greeks hate Slavs, and I've known this since a very early age

I'm afraid that is terribly wrong friend, it is some greeks (or insert any other social or ethic group here, macedonians, slavs, you name it) that are racist and/or hold backward and extremist views who hate all slavs (or insert any other social or ethnic group here), not all of them.

Right...well you need to read the 9th century text "О писмєньхъ" by Чръноризьць Храбръ where he tells the Greeks that The Slavic Language has a right to exist among Slavs (official Greek policy was that Greek was a language, and Slavic...well...just wasn't, but you'll get the meaning if you read the whole thing). Unfortunately this has continued to this very day, and Greeks still feel that by using their language they are somehow superior to us Slavs.
I can bring other texts and proof to show how this is the official Greek State line.
Would you care for that?

I'm interested in knowing, to the best of my ability, what's going on, but I definitely see why Americans understand not much outside of America.
Lack of information/"education" about certain things...

Anyway, I appreciate the news.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:I'm interested in knowing, to the best of my ability, what's going on, but I definitely see why Americans understand not much outside of America.
Lack of information/"education" about certain things...

Anyway, I appreciate the news.

Yeah, thanks CD.
Don't feel bad, this is complicated even for most Europeans.

On a different note - my English (well Macedonian for a decade now) friend called me just now, said (don't want to give up the sex) felt disappointment because it/he/she felt that this was a revolution, and not merely a party-switch...LOL it/he/she was furious when I said I knew it would be. (won't be getting any more calls from it/he/she anymore I reckon). LOL

macedonian wrote:

mack8 wrote:

Another thing is that Greeks hate Slavs, and I've known this since a very early age

I'm afraid that is terribly wrong friend, it is some greeks (or insert any other social or ethic group here, macedonians, slavs, you name it) that are racist and/or hold backward and extremist views who hate all slavs (or insert any other social or ethnic group here), not all of them.

Right...well you need to read the 9th century text "О писмєньхъ" by Чръноризьць Храбръ where he tells the Greeks that The Slavic Language has a right to exist among Slavs (official Greek policy was that Greek was a language, and Slavic...well...just wasn't, but you'll get the meaning if you read the whole thing). Unfortunately this has continued to this very day, and Greeks still feel that by using their language they are somehow superior to us Slavs.
I can bring other texts and proof to show how this is the official Greek State line.
Would you care for that?

Are you bringing some stuff from the bloody NINTH century, 1100 years ago, to this discussion happening in 2015? Seriously!? You can bring whatever ancient text you like, but i'm afraid it will be utterly irrelevant. How about stop living in the past according to some terribly backward concepts and ideas, and try to live in the present and look at the future? You do even realize that all peoples have red blood? Do you realize that if you mix some greeks and macedonians together you can't even tell them apart? You do realize that your view of the world is not even representative of all peoples in your country, i refuse to believe all are believing like you in the fringe extremist views that i outlined earlier- just like Hannibal Barca's pathetic rants are not representative for all the peoples in Greece!

Anyway i'm wasting my time here, you can live in your utopian world in which your religious sect is bestest and truest of all and dreaming about how superiors the slavs are to all other inferior non-slav untermenschen (fascism anyone?), but unfortunately you do not realize how nocive and destructive your views are, the same kinds of views that, like i said, helped create the tragedies of Yugoslavia or most other war zones today or anyday ( Ukraine, Syria, Libya, Iraq you name it).

Hannibal Barca wrote:Stop trying to imply an ideological dimension in this or attempting connections with this and that. This is purely internal affair. The HUGE and potentially larger population, the Albanians get supressed there by a criminal gang who call themselves Macedonians. That's all the reality here.  You are the Poroshenko's in Skopje suppressing the people around you, like this pure minorities. This people protesting and fighting are the Novorussians let us say. That's the reason why everyone despise you around, the Bulgarians who want to destroy you and liberate the Bulgarians who have a strong minority there, the Albanians, the Serbs that much prefer the true Macedonians than you lunatics who trait your ancestors and the Greeks to whom you commit fraud.

Wow, this is like Monarchist x1000.

Thank god, you're not a real Greek.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:I'm interested in knowing, to the best of my ability, what's going on, but I definitely see why Americans understand not much outside of America.
Lack of information/"education" about certain things...

Anyway, I appreciate the news.

My friend,as someone from the vicinity, I will give pro-tip in the form of old Westerosi proverb:

"Balkans is dark and full of terrors"  

mack8 wrote:Are you bringing some stuff from the bloody NINTH century, 1100 years ago, to this discussion happening in 2015? Seriously!? You can bring whatever ancient text you like, but i'm afraid it will be utterly irrelevant. How about stop living in the past according to some terribly backward concepts and ideas, and try to live in the present and look at the future?

I'm all for it mate, don't think our Greek friends will agree though.
See, we're negotiating OUR VERY NAME and in the UN they use the 1/2nd centuries BC!!! for negotiation.
Doesn't bother me none though, since if it wasn't for their disrespect for the signed agreement (under international law...much like Americans do) we would've already been a part of the EU and NATO.
People here hate them for not respecting the contract, but I LOVE them for it! Thanks for using injustice for bringing justice Greeks! I'll always be thankful!

mack8 wrote:You do even realize that all peoples have red blood?  Do you realize that if you mix some greeks and macedonians together you can't even tell them apart? You do realize that your view of the world is not even representative of all peoples in your country, i refuse to believe all are believing like you in the fringe extremist views that i outlined earlier- just like Hannibal Barca's pathetic rants are not representative for all the peoples in Greece!

As I said, I'm an Orthodox Christian - blood is all same to me! Every human has the same right to exist as I do.
Please, read more about how Greeks feel, and indeed how Macedonians feel. Hannibal Barca is not the only Greek that feels that way. The Greek government and 99% (poll results during the last 20years) do.
The Greeks voted (even the Syriza government) that they DO NOT RECOGNIZE MACEDONIA, and would even go to war if needed. So much for Orthodox Christianity!

mack8 wrote:Anyway i'm wasting my time here, you can live in your utopian world in which your religious sect is bestest and truest of all and dreaming about how superiors the slavs are to all other inferior non-slav untermenschen (fascism anyone?), but unfortunately you do not realize how nocive and destructive your views are, the same kinds of views that, like i said, helped create the tragedies of Yugoslavia or most other war zones today or anyday ( Ukraine, Syria, Libya, Iraq you name it).

Never did I say that Slavs are superior to anyone, I mean - yes - I love my people (be they Macedonian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Russian or even Croatian) but I NEVER DID CLAIM THAT THEY'RE SUPERIOR TO ANYONE! Please don't put words into my mouth! I actually LOVE Georgians, Romanians and American-Orthodox better! Macedonian doesn't define me enough - I'm better defined as an Orthodox Christian (even if Slavic people are/behave same as me)!

Color Revo - Botched
Even the pro-opposition posters (on Mac forums) agree.
After all the American/European support, not a thing has changed!  

Ha ha - if Turkish Stream goes ahead, we'll know that they've screwed up!
Even though - - - I know these people don't really give up, so they might assassinate our Prime Minister!
The shock! The horror!

Then we can have a proper party eh...LOL
Just havin' a laugh here obviously! Well...no - not really...I'll be celebrating...

Sounds like it was a flop, although I hear the hardcore group numbering several hundred (or up to 4000 according to some reports) will be camping at the square until the government resigns.

P.S.

Tone down the Greek/MK lovefest a bit...it's getting a bit too heated

Cyberspec wrote:Sounds like it was a flop, although I hear the hardcore group numbering several hundred (or up to 4000 according to some reports) will be camping at the square until the government resigns.

P.S.

Tone down the Greek/MK lovefest a bit...it's getting a bit too heated

I would say let them camp out. Set up some barriers around them and police cordon them off so that they cannot get food or water unless they leave. Eventually these idiots would give up.

sepheronx wrote:I would say let them camp out.  Set up some barriers around them and police cordon them off so that they cannot get food or water unless they leave.  Eventually these idiots would give up.

Wrong, bottled water and ready to eat food is dirty cheap and can be obtained even for free; portable toilets and electricity supply are the real game changers this days.

whir wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I would say let them camp out.  Set up some barriers around them and police cordon them off so that they cannot get food or water unless they leave.  Eventually these idiots would give up.

Wrong, bottled water and ready to eat food is dirty cheap and can be obtained even for free; portable toilets and electricity supply are the real game changers this days.

Bottled water will only last them for so long. Let them sit there till then. I say, camp out, but prevent goods coming and and going out from these protestors.

We'll see how today's counter rally goes. Like 'Macedonian' said, most are expecting it to be bigger than the opposition one which was fairly large, estimated at around 20 000 people but they were apparently hoping for 100 000.

Apart from the gypsie-slavs looks like the turkoalbanians also think that they have great great predecessors
Hilarity in this pseudocountry never ends

It is only the threat of violence that makes any country a country today or in the past.

Oh, and you have SOME nerve calling people "gypsie-slavs" on a Russian forum!
I give you that...

I apologise for my ignorance but is gypsie-slav a slur?

Is it an equivalent of calling someone trailer trash?

Well just for clarification I didn't use the term "gypsie-slavs" negatively but literally meaning that this Slavic populations North of Greece are a real mess of cross breeding and that's why you see all this conflicts and disputes.

Are you suggesting pure breds don't fight?

If you had made that statement without the mention of cross breeding like they were horses or dogs and people would still understand... it is a very volatile region even today, but dragging genetics into it makes you sound a little like the nazis... you know... superior race and all that.

Your mate Nick will like that. But I don't think he'll like that dark complexion (he's the white-power type, you see).
Culture...Israel...Greece...Palestinian...Macedonian...I ain't answering that again.

NickM wont be saying much here anymore.


There are some very strong feelings on this thread, and I have quite a few options... give one or two people a break for a couple of days to think about things, or just lock the thread.


Being on the other side of the planet some things were said that clearly upset some people who responded.... these issues are deep seated beliefs that wont go away with a two day ban... how about an apology and a bit more sensitivity by both sides for each others feelings... unless you are actually trolls that want to upset people on this forum, in which case it makes it very easy for me... four day ban.


Do we understand each other?


GarryB

sepheronx wrote:Bottled water will only last them for so long.  Let them sit there till then.  I say, camp out, but prevent goods coming and and going out from these protestors.

You either let them camp or not but if you do you have to allow free movement and while any sympathiser living nearby can refill a hundred plastic bottles with water for free no one is going to allow a hundred people taking a dump in his WC.

For people who do not live here, the Balkans will never be a place they can understand. They can try, but never understand ...

Mac8, without the knowledge of the ancient history of the region, you will never be able to understand the present. It is in our genes written whom to hate and whom to love. The only period of peace, when we are all more or less respected each other in the former Yugoslavia, was the period after WWII onwards, until the nineties. And the only reason why, it was the firm hand of the Communist Party who stood over us and know how to deal with the thugs within our ranks.

Unfortunately, because so much blood spilled in the region, all the good that we have given the world, remained overshadowed. From culture and science to sports ...

As a man who has survived the last war and that is all the more convinced that I will experience another one, I wish for the Macedonians a cool head, because the way they are organized, these latest protests as well as everything that preceded them seem more than familiar.

I would write a lot more, but it makes no sense ...

whir wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Bottled water will only last them for so long.  Let them sit there till then.  I say, camp out, but prevent goods coming and and going out from these protestors.

You either let them camp or not but if you do you have to allow free movement and while any sympathiser living nearby can refill a hundred plastic bottles with water for free no one is going to allow a hundred people taking a dump in his WC.

And why do you have to allow free movement? Police cordon off areas all the time and one cannot move freely around.

sepheronx wrote:And why do you have to allow free movement? Police cordon off areas all the time and one cannot move freely around.

Because cordoning the area costs money and can be used for provocations very easily while shutting off nearby streetlights can be done by one electrician in a matter of minutes and the damage is way bigger to a social media driven protest.

whir wrote:

sepheronx wrote:And why do you have to allow free movement? Police cordon off areas all the time and one cannot move freely around.

Because cordoning the area costs money and can be used for provocations very easily while shutting off nearby streetlights can be done by one electrician in a matter of minutes and the damage is way bigger to a social media driven protest.

Yes, I suppose you are right.

So what is happening on the ground now anyway? The pro gov protestors show up yet or anything?

All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again...
Video calling for anti government demonstrations in Macedonia, led by former DUTCH Ambassador Simone Filippini via Soros-funded groups such as "Libertas"


http://libertas.mk/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B5-%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8-%D0%B7%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%BE-%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%93%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81/

Macedonian Opposition Uses CIA and Soros Funds to Hire 2,000 Violent Thugs for Sunday Protest



In an interview for Soros owned nova-tv portal the leader of the SDSM Zoran Zaev confirmed the opposition has brought (bought) 2,000 young individuals for the Sunday "protest".


http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/27422/45/


Macedonia paying hefty price for showing interest in Turk Stream .