Project 21631: Buyan-M missile ship

hoom wrote:

Is there any plan to build further Buyan ships?

Not likely.
The Grad armament is kinda cool but very much a quirky situational weapon.
Buyan-M with its UKSK has a much broader applicability.
If anything I'd have thought there is a possibility of selling the Buyans & fill in the Caspian flotilla to 6* -Ms.

I wonder if they'll gradually concentrate the -Ms to the Caspian to maximise the potential strategic throw-weight there as other UKSK ships come online.
Might need to limit numbers if the other Caspian countries aren't too keen though.

Buyan are river boat. Grad is what they need. Buyan m have a different role.

VISHNY VOLOCHEK in Noverossisk Naval base with DeGausing cables around it.

So the 7th Buyan-M Class mind you the same shipyard has built all of the Buyan-M's.

The Orekhovo-Zuyevo was laid down in 2014 and is to be commissioned in 2018. Four years for a 1k ton ship...that honestly should take one year maybe a year and a half at best.

of course what I find funny is how Pella floated out the first Karakut in 1 year and like six months.

They need to get the guy who runs that shipyard and have him go around and fix all the other shipyards cause that guy clearly knows what the hell to do and how to get the job done.

I presume there has been some sort of import substitution related issue or Zelenodolsk too busy?
Previous Buyan-Ms were quicker.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:So the 7th Buyan-M Class mind you the same shipyard has built all of the Buyan-M's.

The Orekhovo-Zuyevo was laid down in 2014 and is to be commissioned in 2018. Four years for a 1k ton ship...that honestly should take one year maybe a year and a half at best.

of course what I find funny is how Pella floated out the first Karakut in 1 year and like six months.

They need to get the guy who runs that shipyard and have him go around and fix all the other shipyards cause that guy clearly knows what the hell to do and how to get the job done.

Not the shipyard's fault in this case.

The first five Buyan-M ships were finished in good time. These were equipped with German MTU diesel engines.
Western sanctions stopped the delivery of further engines.
The Russians had to order licensed produced versions from China, hence the delay for the 6th and subsequent units.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:So the 7th Buyan-M Class mind you the same shipyard has built all of the Buyan-M's.

The Orekhovo-Zuyevo was laid down in 2014 and is to be commissioned in 2018. Four years for a 1k ton ship...that honestly should take one year maybe a year and a half at best.

of course what I find funny is how Pella floated out the first Karakut in 1 year and like six months.

They need to get the guy who runs that shipyard and have him go around and fix all the other shipyards cause that guy clearly knows what the hell to do and how to get the job done.

They did have that engine whatnot after Ukraine 2014 so there is that

But you are definitely right about Pella, they need to copy those guys to the letter

Well not so sure about that, Pella seems to have a reputation for poor build quality/reliability on previous non-military work.

Even then it still took three years per ship on average, I wouldn't consider that good time.

It shouldn't take more than 12 months to have such a FAC ready (lets not kid ourselves and call "it" a corvette). I don't even see why they can't have 2-3 boats of that tonnage ready within a year (say two built in European Russia and one in the far East). Besides corruption and terrible productivity. Ukraine excuses are long gone now.

KiloGolf wrote:It shouldn't take more than 12 months to have such a FAC ready (lets not kid ourselves and call "it" a corvette). I don't even see why they can't have 2-3 boats of that tonnage ready within a year (say two built in European Russia and one in the far East). Besides corruption and terrible productivity. Ukraine excuses are long gone now.

I think RuN calls small missile ship for Buyan-M and small rocket ship for Buyan. And the MTU engine solved only recently I hope it'll go faster now. Otherwise serious shits needed.

hoom wrote:
Well not so sure about that, Pella seems to have a reputation for poor build quality/reliability on previous non-military work.

So has the other military shipyards.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:
They need to get the guy who runs that shipyard and have him go around and fix all the other shipyards cause that guy clearly knows what the hell to do and how to get the job done.

AFAIK Pella is private JSC company. You can't just "get the guy" and fix others with him. ALso I don't think it is under USC either. But Pella itself is rapidly expanding. They acquired a shipyard in Germany in 2014 and one in Crimea recently.

PapaDragon wrote:
But you are definitely right about Pella, they need to copy those guys to the letter

That'll require to make USC shipyards JSC company! Which I support till the main decision is in Kremlins hand and they are still under USC.

So has the other military shipyards.

Point is Zelenodolsk has a solid recent track record with a bunch of military ships in the water & in service.
Pella needs to do more than put their first small military boat in the water before being held up as an example for Zelenodolsk.

hoom wrote:

So has the other military shipyards.

Point is Zelenodolsk has a solid recent track record with a bunch of military ships in the water & in service.
Pella needs to do more than put their first small military boat in the water before being held up as an example for Zelenodolsk.

Pella floated out the first of the class in record time and beat the more experienced Zelenodolosk in all records. Mind you the buyan is lighter than a Karakut.

Took Zelen three years to get on Buyan-M out at the earliest before the engines became and issue and this was after experience building the thing already (It should take no more than a year to float out a less than 1k tonne warship, three years is inexcusable)

Uragan the first Karakut is being outfitted and it was laid down in December of 2015 the 24th to be exact assuming it's commissioned this year that's two years.

Pella hasn't made warships in how long? Zelen has made them for how long? I could bring up how Zaliv is quoted to finish a 22160 in half the time Zelen is, 2 years verse 4 years.

Sorry but logic is logic either workers at Zelen are vastly incompetent or the guys working at Pella are super human.

Serpukov & Zeleny Dol in St Petersburg


Paint seems much darker, or is that weird lighting?

hoom wrote:Serpukov & Zeleny Dol in St Petersburg

Paint seems much darker, or is that weird lighting?

Lighting. Paint is identical.

Just compare photos of ships during Syria deployment with ones taken in home ports, especially North Fleet ships.

Standard color for RuNavy is actually light grey.

hoom wrote:Paint seems much darker, or is that weird lighting?

They painted it for some weird reason, I personally don't like it.

Rehearsal [19:30]

Parade [25:30]

Interesting via Balancer regarding viability of rapid relocation via the river/canals:
This is 3rd August passing through Kerch strait


Already put back together and doing degaussing on 20th August


So I think that is actually pretty good evidence for that radar/topmast being built for rapid removal/restoration that would be necessary to relocate via river/canal system

hoom wrote:Interesting via Balancer regarding viability of rapid relocation via the river/canals:
This is 3rd August passing through Kerch strait

..........
Already put back together and doing degaussing on 20th August

.........
So I think that is actually pretty good evidence for that radar/topmast being built for rapid removal/restoration that would be necessary to relocate via river/canal system

That radar is something that is necessary for operation in open seas.

I don't think they really need it in order to navigate around rivers.

Just take it off and move upriver if you need to.

Sure, point is I've been trying to find proof that it was actually an intentional feature of the design to enable relocations.
Sending 2 of them to the Baltic via the English channel may have been a useful test of seakeeping but absence of proving the canal/river route leaves the worrying possibility that completed operational boats can't use it.

hoom wrote:Sure, point is I've been trying to find proof that it was actually an intentional feature of the design to enable relocations.
Sending 2 of them to the Baltic via the English channel may have been a useful test of seakeeping but absence of proving the canal/river route leaves the worrying possibility that completed operational boats can't use it.

I know, that the first 21360 Buyan ships were built in St. Peterburg and send through canals tom Caspian sea. I don't see a problem for Buyan-M to sail through rivers and canals between Baltic, Black Sea and Caspian Sea.

Luq man wrote:

hoom wrote:Paint seems much darker, or is that weird lighting?

They painted it for some weird reason, I personally don't like it.

Rehearsal [19:30]

Parade [25:30]

Black paint is used for IR stealth around engines. All soviet small boat used this technology because they would have been attacked by aviation and ir missiles. So they reduced the ir emission simply with black paint so the chaffs would work better against missiles. Steregouchy classs has also its top structure painted in black.

Pr.21631 Vyshniy Volochek (Buyan-M) at Novorossiysk Naval Base on 11.9.17

Sooner or later that guy is gonna get seriously injured or killed shooting one of these episodes...

Is it just me or looks like some electronics upgrades on the newer in-build ones vs the one they're onboard at sea?

Anti-ship Kalibr launch.

Bunch of control center footage seems bigger & more populated than I'd have thought for such a little boat.
But then its a lot more armed than most ships that size...

Some nice footage of the Zelenodolsk trimaran demonstrator at the end

As informs resource Mil.Press FlotProm, the Russian Navy will receive a small missile ship (MRK) of project 21631 "Vyshniy Volochek" not earlier than April 2018. This was reported to Mil.Press FlotProm by an informed source in the military-industrial complex.

According to him, the delay is caused by problems with the high-speed marine diesel CHD622V20 produced by China. The corresponding schedule was approved in 2017 by Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3083549.html