Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #1

I don't think there has ever been a conversion from other to Nuclear power?
Seems an excessively large/risky (technical risk) change to me.

hoom wrote:I don't think there has ever been a conversion from other to Nuclear power?
Seems an excessively large/risky (technical risk) change to me.

It was mentioned has a huge "maybe" honestly I would never expect them to make the K. A nuclear powered ship, that seems like fantasy to me at this point.

I don't think there has ever been a conversion from other to Nuclear power?
Seems an excessively large/risky (technical risk) change to me.

Think of it like a land vehicle engine arrangement.

They didn't have a nuclear power plant powerful enough for a large cruiser like the Kirov so all the Orlan class cruisers had a combined propulsion system rather than a pure nuke system

In land vehicle terms think of the BTR-60 which had two small petrol engines that were widely used by common trucks of the period.

The problem was that one such engine was not powerful enough for an armoured BTR-60 so they simply put in two engines. The BTR-70 upgraded those engines with more powerful models but it was not until the BTR-80 where a single rather more powerful diesel engine was used greatly simplifying the engine and transmission arrangement of the vehicle.


The Kuznetsov was not nuclear powered because there were no suitable nuclear power plants available to power it.

New NPPs have been developed for the future carriers and have been put on board ice breaking ships already for testing... putting them on board an existing vessel would not be that hard... the Gorshkov/Kiev class carrier had extensive modifications for the requirements of the Indians including the propulsion system completely being replaced with a different system.... it would not be impossible and would be beneficial in terms of space and experience...

It would certainly not be easy, but it would offer a range of clear benefits as the existing propulsion system is reportedly not optimum.

Converting it to an electric boat with propulsion pods rather than a large shaft driven system would allow better use of internal space and the separation of the nuclear propulsion module in a protected area in the centre of the vessel, while the propeller pods could be distributed around the vessels hull making the use of tugs and the vessels manouver capability exceptional.

A NPP would be more compact and without pressurised pipes all over the place and no enormous shafts... and of course freeing up the heavy fuel space needed for sailing around... that could be used for more aviation fuel for the aircraft and make getting anywhere much faster and make logistics easier too.

GarryB wrote:

I don't think there has ever been a conversion from other to Nuclear power?
Seems an excessively large/risky (technical risk) change to me.

Think of it like a land vehicle engine arrangement.

They didn't have a nuclear power plant powerful enough for a large cruiser like the Kirov so all the Orlan class cruisers had a combined propulsion system rather than a pure nuke system

In land vehicle terms think of the BTR-60 which had two small petrol engines that were widely used by common trucks of the period.

The problem was that one such engine was not powerful enough for an armoured BTR-60 so they simply put in two engines. The BTR-70 upgraded those engines with more powerful models but it was not until the BTR-80 where a single rather more powerful diesel engine was used greatly simplifying the engine and transmission arrangement of the vehicle.


The Kuznetsov was not nuclear powered because there were no suitable nuclear power plants available to power it.

New NPPs have been developed for the future carriers and have been put on board ice breaking ships already for testing... putting them on board an existing vessel would not be that hard... the Gorshkov/Kiev class carrier had extensive modifications for the requirements of the Indians including the propulsion system completely being replaced with a different system.... it would not be impossible and would be beneficial in terms of space and experience...

It would certainly not be easy, but it would offer a range of clear benefits as the existing propulsion system is reportedly not optimum.

Converting it to an electric boat with propulsion pods rather than a large shaft driven system would allow better use of internal space and the separation of the nuclear propulsion module in a protected area in the centre of the vessel, while the propeller pods could be distributed around the vessels hull making the use of tugs and the vessels manouver capability exceptional.

A NPP would be more compact and without pressurised pipes all over the place and no enormous shafts... and of course freeing up the heavy fuel space needed for sailing around... that could be used for more aviation fuel for the aircraft and make getting anywhere much faster and make logistics easier too.

They actually had OK-900 based systems which were fitted on Lenin and Arktika icebreakers (155 ish and 170ish MW was the output), also KN-3 (cca 300MW) which was fitted on Kirovs was supposed to be used on Ulyanovsk carriers 4 of them too, this one was also OK-900 based, just different reactor designation. All of these were kinda available at the time when Kuz was built.

3 of them would probably provide all the power Kuz would need at that time, even 4 probably could have been fitted knowing how bulky current propulsion system is, with future systems in mind, however they did not.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

hoom wrote:I don't think there has ever been a conversion from other to Nuclear power?
Seems an excessively large/risky (technical risk) change to me.

It was mentioned has a huge "maybe" honestly I would never expect them to make the K. A nuclear powered ship, that seems like fantasy to me at this point.

Well not really.

Whole thing will be going under total overhaul for several years. Same thing they are doing to Nakhimonov battlecruiser, basically striping it down almost to the bulkheads and replacing everything they can.

Current propulsion system has been pain in the neck since the begging and with new reactors available that use just 20% enriched uranium it would make perfect sense to replace the propulsion as well. RITM-200 reactor will be practically in serial production by then. There is plenty of space there as well.

And since they are ripping the whole thing open anyway they might as well get it done properly.

Also they will need to test EM catapults in practice on something. If they do it on Kuznetzov they will need a lot of juice for it. That is where reactors come in.

Has it been confirmed the ship will face a serious modernization? they have said they plan to. Now once they actually send the ship into the dockyard then okay.

I have seen and heard them claim before the ship would undergo an extensive modernization but it never does. The Russian navy makes has you should know rather bold claims in areas of starting ship production or something like that. One can just look at those amphibious assault ship has an example here.

They don't NEED to test catapults on a ship a ground based facility would provide all the required data which is what they are currently doing. It's more would be a nice thing but it's not necessary ether.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:................

Has it been confirmed the ship will face a serious modernization? they have said they plan to. Now once they actually send the ship into the dockyard then okay.

I have seen and heard them claim before the ship would undergo an extensive modernization but it never does. The Russian navy makes has you should know rather bold claims in areas of starting ship production or something like that. One can just look at those amphibious assault ship has an example here.

They don't NEED to test catapults on a ship a ground based facility would provide all the required data which is what they are currently doing. It's more would be a nice thing but it's not necessary ether.

This ship should have already been in dockyard. It was officially confirmed, reported in media and we talked about this already. However Navy decided to use Syrian war as rare opportunity to give the vessel some combat use.

Once Syrian deployment is wrapped up it is going back for full overhaul lasting several years.

I will take your word for catapults since Naval stuff is not my strong point.

PapaDragon wrote:

This ship should have already been in dockyard. It was officially confirmed, reported in media and we talked about this already. However Navy decided to use Syrian war as rare opportunity to give the vessel some combat use.

Once Syrian deployment is wrapped up it is going back for full overhaul lasting several years.

I will take your word for catapults since Naval stuff is not my strong point.

Any idea in which dockyard?

I'm not doubting there would be advantages.

But there could be serious structural issues with it: a reactor is a quite different shape & much more dense than a normal steam plant -> may require significant internal rework & structural changes to spread the load.

Changing to all electric with azipods would surely be much cheaper & quicker to outright build a new ship.

They put a new powerplant in Vikramaditya but a newer tech steam plant not a radical change, assuming that it has been working OK I'd expect similar for Kuznetsov.

Well, Good Luck!  

So PtG is going along as well, good.
Seen some suggestion they might leave it behind but I'd have been surprised about that.

Hoping they pick up Essen out of the Baltic along the way.

Now that is a show of force. Peter complements the K nicely.

not only nuclear reactor ,but if you use e.m. catapult -you need flywheels size in MW and few of them,also supercapacitator banks for fine power tuning.

I am not sure how many airplanes are bellow deck in hangar, or are there any airplanes in hangar at all??
For now we have 5 SU-33 and 4 MIG-29

This is quite a significant event for the RuN. As mentioned re the Essen, the Northern Fleet task force could easily be joined by units of the Baltic Fleet as they pass down the North Sea, plus they will have submarines with them.

This will be a very rare opportunity for ship spotters at Dover as the fleet goes down the Channel. Expect a huge spread in the Daily Mail of the Russian threat made real.

The RuN is clearly maximising this once in a career chance of training and actioning a large scale operation, just as the RuAF has already done over the past 12 months. It is also, at a personal level, a career enhancing opportunity.

Expect a large NATO shadowing force above/below the waves and in the sky plus probable attack training. There will be MoD cells in countries all along the route rapidly planning and gearing up to get the most value from it. Looks like win-win all round on training all the way!

Interfax news;

15:03
RUSSIAN NAVAL GROUP INCLUDING ADMIRAL KUZNETSOV AIRCRAFT CARRIER, PYOTR VELIKY NUCLEAR MISSILE CRUISER STARTS CRUISE TOWARD NORTHEASTERN ATLANTIC OCEAN, MEDITERRANEAN ON SATURDAY - NORTHERN FLEET

JohninMK wrote:This is quite a significant event for the RuN. As mentioned re the Essen, the Northern Fleet task force could easily be joined by units of the Baltic Fleet as they pass down the North Sea, plus they will have submarines with them.

This will be a very rare opportunity for ship spotters at Dover as the fleet goes down the Channel. Expect a huge spread in the Daily Mail of the Russian threat made real.

The RuN is clearly maximising this once in a career chance of training and actioning a large scale operation, just as the RuAF has already done over the past 12 months. It is also, at a personal level, a career enhancing opportunity.

Expect a large NATO shadowing force above/below the waves and in the sky plus probable attack training. There will be MoD cells in countries all along the route rapidly planning and gearing up to get the most value from it. Looks like win-win all round on training all the way!

Two 20380 corvettes were spotted in the North Sea today; speculation is they're heading for Syria. Source: Twitter

Ned86 wrote:I am not sure how many airplanes are bellow deck in hangar, or are there any airplanes in hangar at all??
For now we have 5 SU-33 and 4 MIG-29

Does anyone have pictures with good enough resolution to see the b/n of Su-33, to see, if they are modernized ones from Zhukovsky or other. For now we see b/n 88, 71, 78, 85, 77 and 84 to be modernized. I think one Su-33 have Sorbtsia ECM pods on the wings. I hope all Su-33 in Syria will have ECM pods for self protection.

medo wrote:

Does anyone have pictures with good enough resolution to see the b/n of Su-33, to see, if they are modernized ones from Zhukovsky or other. For now we see b/n 88, 71, 78, 85, 77 and 84 to be modernized. I think one Su-33 have Sorbtsia ECM pods on the wings. I hope all Su-33 in Syria will have ECM pods for self protection.

Am I correct in assuming that they have all been recently repainted into the same colours as the Flankers already in Syria, perhaps intentionally to confuse local identification? The previous pictures of Su-33 have been with a black nose cone. If so would this imply that they are 'modernised'?

black nose cone?

JohninMK wrote:

medo wrote:

Does anyone have pictures with good enough resolution to see the b/n of Su-33, to see, if they are modernized ones from Zhukovsky or other. For now we see b/n 88, 71, 78, 85, 77 and 84 to be modernized. I think one Su-33 have Sorbtsia ECM pods on the wings. I hope all Su-33 in Syria will have ECM pods for self protection.

Am I correct in assuming that they have all been recently repainted into the same colours as the Flankers already in Syria, perhaps intentionally to confuse local identification? The previous pictures of Su-33 have been with a black nose cone. If so would this imply that they are 'modernised'?

Su-33 allways have white nose cones and the same colours. We could recognize them by b/n.

JohninMK wrote:This is quite a significant event for the RuN. As mentioned re the Essen, the Northern Fleet task force could easily be joined by units of the Baltic Fleet as they pass down the North Sea, plus they will have submarines with them.

This will be a very rare opportunity for ship spotters at Dover as the fleet goes down the Channel. Expect a huge spread in the Daily Mail of the Russian threat made real.

The RuN is clearly maximising this once in a career chance of training and actioning a large scale operation, just as the RuAF has already done over the past 12 months. It is also, at a personal level, a career enhancing opportunity.

Expect a large NATO shadowing force above/below the waves and in the sky plus probable attack training. There will be MoD cells in countries all along the route rapidly planning and gearing up to get the most value from it. Looks like win-win all round on training all the way!

Just read the UK will be sending a frigate and a destroyer to join this Task Force.
About time that NATO got on board.

Non??

medo wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

medo wrote:

Does anyone have pictures with good enough resolution to see the b/n of Su-33, to see, if they are modernized ones from Zhukovsky or other. For now we see b/n 88, 71, 78, 85, 77 and 84 to be modernized. I think one Su-33 have Sorbtsia ECM pods on the wings. I hope all Su-33 in Syria will have ECM pods for self protection.

Am I correct in assuming that they have all been recently repainted into the same colours as the Flankers already in Syria, perhaps intentionally to confuse local identification? The previous pictures of Su-33 have been with a black nose cone. If so would this imply that they are 'modernised'?

Su-33 allways have white nose cones and the same colours. We could recognize them by b/n.

Oooops, my mistake, it was the Mig-29 with the black nose cone. Sorry.

franco wrote:

JohninMK wrote:This is quite a significant event for the RuN. As mentioned re the Essen, the Northern Fleet task force could easily be joined by units of the Baltic Fleet as they pass down the North Sea, plus they will have submarines with them.

This will be a very rare opportunity for ship spotters at Dover as the fleet goes down the Channel. Expect a huge spread in the Daily Mail of the Russian threat made real.

The RuN is clearly maximising this once in a career chance of training and actioning a large scale operation, just as the RuAF has already done over the past 12 months. It is also, at a personal level, a career enhancing opportunity.

Expect a large NATO shadowing force above/below the waves and in the sky plus probable attack training. There will be MoD cells in countries all along the route rapidly planning and gearing up to get the most value from it. Looks like win-win all round on training all the way!

Just read the UK will be sending a frigate and a destroyer to join this Task Force.  
About time that NATO got on board.  

Non??  

Great idea, but none are available for travel to a hot climate.

Official announcement from Northern Fleet via bmpd http://www.mvestnik.ru/shwpgn.asp?pid=2016101517

Google translate wrote:MURMANSK REGION. Today at 15.00 began a campaign of naval aircraft carrier group of the Northern Fleet in the North East Atlantic and the Mediterranean. It is reported by the press service of the Federation Council.

The group consists of the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser "Admiral of the Soviet Union Fleet Kuznetsov" heavy nuclear missile cruiser "Peter the Great", the large anti-submarine ship "Severomorsk" and "Vice-Admiral Kulakov" and support vessels.

The goal of the campaign - ensuring a naval presence in operationally important areas of the oceans.

Particular attention will be paid to ensuring the safety of maritime navigation and other maritime economic activities of the Russian Federation, as well as respond to new types of modern threats of piracy and international terrorism.

The campaign will be improved maritime training and combat coordination of crews of surface ships practiced joint action force and naval aircraft carrier group aircraft, including the flight deck of aircraft and helicopters. Planned joint military exercises with ships of other fleets of the Russian Navy.

A few days earlier, the crews of ships aircraft carrier group completed the planned preparations for the long march in military training ranges of the Northern Fleet in the Barents Sea.

Previous joint campaign in the Mediterranean area and the North-East Atlantic, the heavy cruiser "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov" and "Peter the Great" was completed in the first half of 2014. For the flagship aircraft carrier group - the aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" began the long march will be the eighth.

And a pic


And a bunch more pics at anchor before departure at http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1518540.html
Can just make out some of the numbers in this, I read 7?, 84, ??, 71, 78