Russia - Pakistan military deals

"Moscow is in talks with with Islamabad about selling an unknown number of Su-35 fighters to Pakistan, a traditional enemy of Russia's ally India, reports China's Global Times.

Whether Russia would damage its relations with India to sell fighters to Pakistan seems dubious, however, according to the report, which also said that a small number of Su-35 fighters would not strengthen the Pakistan Air Force to any degree against the Indian Air Force, which has hundreds of Su-30MKI fighters purchased from Russia in service.

China has traditionally been the main supplier of military aircraft to Pakistan, the report pointed out. Beijing and Islamabad's close relationship since the 1950s may be prone to the covert collection of technological secrets by the PLA Air Force through the Pakistan Air Force. If Russia suspected such a leak, it would likely forego sales to Pakistan, according to the report."

Source: http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1101&MainCatID=11&id=20150916000037

Militarov wrote:"Moscow is in talks with with Islamabad about selling an unknown number of Su-35 fighters to Pakistan, a traditional enemy of Russia's ally India, reports China's Global Times.

Whether Russia would damage its relations with India to sell fighters to Pakistan seems dubious, however, according to the report, which also said that a small number of Su-35 fighters would not strengthen the Pakistan Air Force to any degree against the Indian Air Force, which has hundreds of Su-30MKI fighters purchased from Russia in service.

China has traditionally been the main supplier of military aircraft to Pakistan, the report pointed out. Beijing and Islamabad's close relationship since the 1950s may be prone to the covert collection of technological secrets by the PLA Air Force through the Pakistan Air Force. If Russia suspected such a leak, it would likely forego sales to Pakistan, according to the report."

Source: http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1101&MainCatID=11&id=20150916000037

Russia is really trying to piss off India, isn't it?

Militarov wrote:"Moscow is in talks with with Islamabad about selling an unknown number of Su-35 fighters to Pakistan, a traditional enemy of Russia's ally India, reports China's Global Times.

Whether Russia would damage its relations with India to sell fighters to Pakistan seems dubious, however, according to the report, which also said that a small number of Su-35 fighters would not strengthen the Pakistan Air Force to any degree against the Indian Air Force, which has hundreds of Su-30MKI fighters purchased from Russia in service.

China has traditionally been the main supplier of military aircraft to Pakistan, the report pointed out. Beijing and Islamabad's close relationship since the 1950s may be prone to the covert collection of technological secrets by the PLA Air Force through the Pakistan Air Force. If Russia suspected such a leak, it would likely forego sales to Pakistan, according to the report."

Source: http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1101&MainCatID=11&id=20150916000037

It wont amount to anything. Pakistan is a small fry compared to India's deep pockets, I suspect this is no more than posturing to 'encourage' India to acquire a few for themselves.

India is not on board Eurasian integration bandwagon.
Even when more info was leaked on 62 war with China, they refuse to declassify it and face facts of their aggression.
They simply want to maintain conflict with China... never mind that current LoC is due to China voluntarily withdrawing.
Likewise they have obsession with impeding Pakistan in Afghanistan, as if that could change balance of power with India.

Not particularly sure about this Su-35 deal, but that is the larger picture...

or maybe just business negotiations´ strategy? buy from us not US otherwise we sell it to your sworn  geopolitical foe ?

mutantsushi wrote:India is not on board Eurasian integration bandwagon.
Even when more info was leaked on 62 war with China, they refuse to declassify it and face facts of their aggression.
They simply want to maintain conflict with China... never mind that current LoC is due to China voluntarily withdrawing.
Likewise they have obsession with impeding Pakistan in Afghanistan, as if that could change balance of power with India.

Not particularly sure about this Su-35 deal, but that is the larger picture...

You know nothing about India - China border issues and aiding pakistan nuclear program + Chinese occupied Indian states. India is pretty much at par in Eurasian Bandwagon.

It'd be lovely if the Asian nations could put aside their plethora of disputes, even if it was just simply long enough to help Russia and its allies in putting the US beast to rest.

It seems it is too much to ask...

Pakistan is negotiating a deal to purchase Sukhoi-35 'Flanker E' fighter jets from Russia, which is expected to be the largest defense deal between the two countries, according to IHS Jane’s.

A senior Pakistani government official confirmed the discussions between Pakistan and Russia regarding the supply of Su-35 fighter jets. However, the official emphasized that it is “too early” to tell whether both countries will reach an agreement.

Previous reports indicated that Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov revealed that the two countries are in talks on the supply of Su-35 fighter jets.

According to the Pakistani official, they are interested in the Su-35 fighter jets because the country’s Air Force needs a twin-engine fighter with the capacity to fly longer range than the JF-17 and to penetrate deeply into the enemy’s territory.

Pakistan’s Air Force has a mixed fleet of Lockheed Martin Corporation (NYSE:LMT) F16 Dassault Mirage-5s, Chinese-manufactured F-7s, and the JF-17 Thunder. China and Pakistan partnered in producing the JF-17 Thunder fighter jet.

Pakistan strengthening relations with Russia

Pakistan has been strengthening its relationship with Russia while facing increasing tensions with the United States regarding its efforts to fight the Islamic militants in the region. The U.S. considers Pakistan as an unreliable partner in fighting terrorist groups.

Pakistan recently agreed to purchase Mi-35 “Hinde E” attack helicopters from Russia. The Pakistani government did not reveal the details of the deal including the value and schedule for the delivery of the Mi-35 helicopters.

Last year, Russia and Pakistan signed a bilateral defense cooperation agreement to boost its military-to-military relations. Both countries are expected to sign a technical cooperation agreement for the sale of Russian military equipment to Islamabad.

Both countries are also expected to sign the North-South gas pipeline agreement by the end of September, according to Russian Energy Minister Alexander Novak.

India would be extremely upset with Pakistan-Russia deal

Defense industry analysts suggested that Russia is willing to sell advance hardware to Pakistan despite its longstanding relationship with India. The Russian government also signed a defense cooperation agreement with the Pakistani government in November last year.

Brian Cloughley, an author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad commented, “The Indians would be extremely upset to the point of a major diplomatic rift.”

India previously stated that Russia is crossing the “red line” for selling military hardware to Pakistan.

On the other hand, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov emphasized that the country’s relationship with India will no be affected by its expanding military cooperation with Pakistan.

Ryabkov explained that Russia and Pakistan are close partners, and India will not be jealous on the contract under negotiations involving the Su-35 fighter jets and Mi-35 helicopters.

Meanwhile, the trade agreements between Pakistan and Afghanistan have been shelved. The primary issue was whether the Pakistani government would allow trade from India to cross its territory.

According to Afghanistan Deputy Commerce Minister, Muzamel Shinware, it was “illogical and unfair” not to include Indian trade crossing Pakistan into Afghanistan. On the other hand, a Pakistani official commented, “If you put India on the table, then the whole thing stops."

http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/09/pakistan-russia-su-35-fighter-jet-deal/

sepheronx wrote:until there is official word from Russian Rosobornexport (SP?) I will wait to see it to believe it if it ever comes to be.

why would this deal happen of a strategic and balance shifting for India i fail to understand. This will cause both Russia and India to loose on many fronts

Pinto wrote:

sepheronx wrote:until there is official word from Russian Rosobornexport (SP?) I will wait to see it to believe it if it ever comes to be.

why would this deal happen of a strategic and balance shifting for India i fail to understand. This will cause both Russia and India to loose on many fronts

Pakistan gets Su-35
India gets PAK-FA
Russia gets money

Everybody happy

TheArmenian wrote:

Pinto wrote:

sepheronx wrote:until there is official word from Russian Rosobornexport (SP?) I will wait to see it to believe it if it ever comes to be.

why would this deal happen of a strategic and balance shifting for India i fail to understand. This will cause both Russia and India to loose on many fronts

Pakistan gets Su-35
India gets PAK-FA
Russia gets money

Everybody happy

Lol bro its not so easy, India will spent a billion if Pakistan spend million to stop this deal and this looks to be the motive of these unconfirmed leaks in media

People tend to forget that Pakistan is the biggest buyer of Chinese weapons, China will not sit still here.

No chance for such a deal IMO, Russia won't sacrifice its defence ties with India.

Maybe someone in Rosoboronexport decided to 'test the waters' so to speak. Well they've been tested now.
It's obvious enough this ain't the same as selling to 2 different African countries at war with each other or something, India is a power to be taken seriously.

I think the US, France, etc... would like nothing more than a defence ties and political rift between Russia and India so that they can sell more of their own products instead. Hence why this news is being hyped-up. But Russia is too experienced in political/diplomatic matters to fall for it.

OminousSpudd wrote:It'd be lovely if the Asian nations could put aside their plethora of disputes, even if it was just simply long enough to help Russia and its allies in putting the US beast to rest.

It seems it is too much to ask...

that's far too much to ask.. given that each nations have their own national interest.

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Well if Berkut and TR-1 got "insider"...so do i. Apparently yes.. Indonesia will really order Su-35S. Not in large number though. Delivery can commence as soon as 2016 with number of two aircrafts. In 2017 we may receiver additional six aircrafts and final four will be delivered in 2018. Bring total number of 12.

Annual payment for those planes would be in U$ with nominal of 200M/year. With total budget of 840M (Well actually it was 1B but..budget cuts)

"Moscow is in talks with with Islamabad about selling an unknown number of Su-35 fighters to Pakistan, a traditional enemy of Russia's ally India, reports China's Global Times.

Chinas Global Times? Why not wait for a more reliable source like the UKs Guardian, or Americas Washington Post...

Having said that it would not be something totally new... Russia has already sold inferior aircraft to China while selling the superior model to India when it wants it.

Selling Pakistan Su-35s... which India does not want, and selling India their PAK FA indian variant is normal business practice... India seems happy to buy from the west and from Russia... perhaps if India wants to sign an exclusivity contract with Russia and buy only Russian equipment then it can have the right to veto Russian arms sales... until then it seems that Russia is only offering other countries that are hostile to India products India has rejected.

point is if russia would be best at all weapons they would for sure sell all

GarryB wrote:

"Moscow is in talks with with Islamabad about selling an unknown number of Su-35 fighters to Pakistan, a traditional enemy of Russia's ally India, reports China's Global Times.

Chinas Global Times? Why not wait for a more reliable source like the UKs Guardian, or Americas Washington Post...  

Having said that it would not be something totally new... Russia has already sold inferior aircraft to China while selling the superior model to India when it wants it.

Selling Pakistan Su-35s... which India does not want, and selling India their PAK FA indian variant is normal business practice... India seems happy to buy from the west and from Russia... perhaps if India wants to sign an exclusivity contract with Russia and buy only Russian equipment then it can have the right to veto Russian arms sales... until then it seems that Russia is only offering other countries that are hostile to India products India has rejected.

Hey i shared what i stumbled upon And to be honest this is first time literally i heard about this "Chinas Global Times".

GarryB wrote:Selling Pakistan Su-35s... which India does not want, and selling India their PAK FA indian variant is normal business practice... India seems happy to buy from the west and from Russia... perhaps if India wants to sign an exclusivity contract with Russia and buy only Russian equipment then it can have the right to veto Russian arms sales... until then it seems that Russia is only offering other countries that are hostile to India products India has rejected.

Kremlin should try to sell at least 2 squadrons of the Su 35 to Pakistan. Otherwise it doesn't make sense for either Russia or Pakistan economically or technically. If the Pakistanis purchase just 5 or 6 aircraft they won't have any advantage over India who already have a 100 Su 30s. Also, this might affect the sale of S-300 to Iran and PAKFA to India. So it makes sense for Russia to sell as many aircraft to Pakistan as possible provided they make the payment up front.

sepheronx wrote:2 Squadrons wont even come close to the amount of sale in $ terms of Pak Fa to India (India wants over 100). So Su-35 sale will have to be in the 100's in order to be worth the sale. Any less and it is a hige potential loss.

Pakistan doesn't have a 100 aircraft of any type. Neither F 16s nor JF 17s. I am certain that they cannot afford 100 Su 35s primarily because the US won't allow its money to be used to purchase Russian aircraft. So Pakistan will have to fall back on the grants it gets from the Middle East.

It would be a good idea to sell PAKFA to Pakistan as well. In any case they are interested in purchasing a stealth fighter possibly from China.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1146104

Before China or USA can exploit this market(of stealth aircraft) Russia should seal a deal with Pakistan.

India will not mind because they are purchasing the same weapons from US(see Harpoon, C 130, Apaches) that the US is selling to Pakistan.This will also compel Iran to purchase Su 35s and PAKFA