Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

kvs wrote:"Armenian occupied Nagorno-Karabakh" what a loaded propaganda phrase.   I guess we had Tutsi occupied portions of Rwanda and Hutu occupied portions of Burundi.
Anyone who labels maps this way is either a retard or malicious.   The problem with colonial borders (which most of them are) is that they deny the indigenous ethnic
distribution and create genocidal wars in their wake.

The bloodshed in Ukraine is an example of BS borders and their effect.

Lol Russian have said that land belongs to Azeri in their eyes, Armenia didn't even deploy its forces to fight for it.

Your boot lickers are hilarious. Actually I cannot call you a boot licker here because The Russians say you are wrong and ARMENIA never EVER EVER OFFCIALLY CLAIMED THE LAND WAS PART OF ARMENIA.

If you support land going back "historical" claims, well Russia owes a few countries a piece of its territory.

Fact is different people have owned lands at different points of history,

The Iranians have a large Azeri population , and the name of this damned place is " Black Forest ,  " in Turkish and Persian root words . But population is Armenian . One way to satisfy all sides is by territorial swap or exchange . By swapping NK for Nakichevan . This gives Azeris and Turks a bone to chew on , and also stops Armenians from yelping about their lost territory . Making both R.Azer and Armenia , have contiguous land mass , and more easily defended . Also a more secure route for North- South trade through Armenia to Russia and Iran . Should Baku play silly hugger games ! QED .

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Lol Russian have said that land belongs to Azeri in their eyes, Armenia didn't even deploy its forces to fight for it.

Your boot lickers are hilarious. Actually I cannot call you a boot licker here because The Russians say you are wrong and ARMENIA never EVER EVER OFFCIALLY CLAIMED THE LAND WAS PART OF ARMENIA.

If you support land going back "historical" claims, well Russia owes a few countries a piece of its territory.

Fact is different people have owned lands at different points of history,

Okay, Russian have said that land belongs to Azeri, and so ?

Russia can have her own opinions, Armenian politicians can be as coward as they are. But the members of this forum are adult people with independent mind, most of the times they take the side of Russia but that does not mean they have obligation to agree with all the opinions of Russia or they are not allowed to have their own ideas.

I support struggle of Artsakh people against Azeri offensives, and I sincerely apologize to any Azeri members of the forum about my opinion but it is not like I will change it.

Got a problem with that ?

It is the hypocrisy I am pointing out, To argue they have any right to that land due that some old historical claim which is subjective because other people where they before thek is moronic.

If you wish to apply that standard, Russia must give Sevas back to China, must give the kirls back the Japan and must surrender Kalin to Germany, Crimea to Greece or Turkey etc, list goes on

Plus a few other parts of its territory would become forfeit.

So let me ask you? Do you support Russia doing these things?. Understand the historical claim argument works both ways not one way. You cannot claim "Well this land belonges to my guys historical, so it's our land"

Then go "I don't support x giving land back to z for the same exact reason I demanded we get this land"

It's not even like Azeri gave the land to them and decided it wanted it back, The leaders of the SU forced that choice onto them.

They never agreed with it, so sorry it's Azeri land

SeigSoloyvov wrote:It is the hypocrisy I am pointing out, To argue they have any right to that land due that some old historical claim which is subjective because other people where they before thek is moronic.

If you wish to apply that standard, Russia must give Sevas back to China, must give the kirls back the Japan and must surrender Kalin to Germany.

Plus a few other parts of its territory would become forfeit.

So let me ask you? Do you support Russia doing these things?. Understand the historical claim argument works both ways not one way.

It's not even like Azeri gave the land to them and decided it wanted it back, The leaders of the SU forced that choice onto them.

They never agreed with it, so sorry it's Azeri land.

Then why don't Azeri approve the Artsakh independence from them when the USSR is no more to enforce any choice onto them and it is clear that Artsakh does not consider them as Azeri ?

Soviet enforcement cannot be used to whitewash the responsibility of Azeri ruling class of enforcing their rule against the will of Artsakh people.

It is not about some sort of old historical claim but tt is that Artsakh don't want to be a part of Azerbaijan.

Back then Nakhchivan also made it clear that it is not a part of Armenia by a referendum and the process went smoothly. Therefore, Artsakh people have every rights to raise the question why their wish meet with such brutality.

@Sprinter99800
Armenian sources: Iran continues to transfer a huge amount of heavy armored vehicles, artillery, air defense systems to the northwest of the country (Sionik border).
https://twitter.com/Sprinter99800/status/1702748736261161001

@IranObserver0
If Azerbaijan wants to carry out a military operation, Iran is able to counter that military operation within 24 hours with 10 times the firepower.
Therefore, the Aliyev regime should not kill Azerbaijani soldiers needlessly — Iran's Parliamentary National Security Commission Member
https://twitter.com/IranObserver0/status/1702738413051412867

Debates amongst Vietnamese netizens (all are 100% pro-Russia) about whether Armenia is a traitor or not.

The Armenian Prime Minister is a graduate of the Soros school of statecraft who has a direct line to Western intelligence, and gets constant directives from them on what to do at every step and how to manipulate the situation. Pashinyan does not hang up the phone to them. Prior to the CIA color revolution that got him into power, he had no experience whatsoever in government, nor he had he a career as a diplomat or as the head of some political party. He was a pure Navalny type figure, the same blogger/'opposition journalist' background. How could he himself possibly navigate the complex geopolitics of the region and try to leverage this alliance against that alliance or whatever? Of course he can't, his only task is to follow the orders of people on the other side of the Atlantic who are brighter than him but are also more concerned with America's success than Armenia's.

He's not following Armenian national interests and his support in the country consists only of the people he has managed to trick into believing that he does, again with the assistance of the same Western spindoctors and techniques - or who are simply sell-outs like he himself. Which is about half the Armenian population still if not more.

It's impossible to consider Armenia the country as a 'traitor'. A traitor to what, besides? To a military alliance with Russia and other ex-Soviet states which is a joke anyway?
The Armenians have elected a traitor to their highest office who is betraying them and will betray them further. And Armenia will suffer for it. It's sad.

I thought that Pashinyan gained power is because of an internal struggle between big corporations and small enterprises in Armenia ?      

It is said that Pashinyan managed to attract the favour of small and middle size businessmen who are upset with the monopoly of big oligarchs associated with Serzh Sargsyan, let to the colour revolution back then.

higurashihougi wrote:I thought that Pashinyan gained power is because of an internal struggle between big corporations and small enterprises in Armenia ?      

It is said that Pashinyan managed to attract the favour of small and middle size businessmen who are upset with the monopoly of big oligarchs associated with Serzh Sargsyan, let to the colour revolution back then.

Pashinyan gained power thanks to the standard color revolution techniques of blaming the old guard for 'corruption' and of being a bunch of Soviet communist-party fossils while portraying yourself and your party as young, dynamic, baseball-cap wearing and selfless. It's all image and Hollywood.

And sure, behind the scenes the petite bourgeois was behind him, the newly emerged magnates of the economic sectors dependent on orders from the West such as the IT industry, tourism, the Kardashians and whatever the hell else; while the established industries and oligarchs in Armenia were tightly connected to Moscow. None of it would have mattered though if Pashinyan didn't manage to mobilize a big enough mob to Yerevan sq. which is actually how all the color revolutions have succeeded so far - by force, or by the threat of the use of force and lustration against the incumbent political elites, underwritten by the sanctions weapons wielded by their EU and US backers against anyone giving problems to their appointed avatar.
And that's all it takes. You don't even need to gain most of the votes, just enough to dispute the result and gather the crowd with your allegations of election fraud supported by the Western media apparatus.

It is the hypocrisy I am pointing out, To argue they have any right to that land due that some old historical claim which is subjective because other people where they before thek is moronic.

If you wish to apply that standard, Russia must give Sevas back to China, must give the kirls back the Japan and must surrender Kalin to Germany, Crimea to Greece or Turkey etc, list goes on

So the situation is that Russia and Armenia and Azerbaijan all do not say that NK is Armenian land... there doesn't seem to be any problem with this by any side....

So what is the problem... well Russia and Armenia and the people of NK don't want Azerbaijan to come in and claim the land for themselves and kill the locals whom they see as foreigner.

It is very much the same as the situation in the Ukraine... Ukrainians living in the East of the country spoke Russian but they never wanted to join Russia until Kiev had shelled and bombed and shot and murdered them for 8 years.

Russia hasn't spend the better part of the last decade claiming these people are Russians and it would not be Russias place to tell them who they are... they had to decide for themselves and they have had a referendum and decided to join the Russian Federation and become Russians because that was their best option for the future.

The people living in the NK should have a referendum and perhaps decide on independence if no one accepts them as being part of Armenia then let them become an independent state... which they must have been for all this time anyway.

What you are missing is that international law basically allows the people on the land to decide... outside powers should not get to choose... even if they are the US or UK or whatever.

Of course letting a majority decide does not give them the right to abuse a minority within their borders, or to ship them out or ship other people in to change the results of any referendum.

Of course conflicts change things... the people of the Falklands are mostly British and see themselves and their culture as British... it would be interesting to know if any Argentinians have every tried to move there and what response they got from the locals... I suspect they would not be made welcome. In South Ossetia and Abkhazia there was conflict and Georgians living in those regions had to leave which of course will change any results you might get from any referendum... but of course allowing them to go back and they will take advantage of that and move a huge number of Georgians back into those regions to take them over a bit like the Albanians did in Kosovo.

The fact is that there is nothing completely fair about this, but Russia is there to try to stop two or three groups from killing each other... as opposed to a western intervention which normally picks a side and calls the other side the enemy and tries to kill the designated enemy while claiming the side they are fighting for are the innocent victims... which normally means they have promised oil and resource contracts to the US for after the war is over.

And that's all it takes. You don't even need to gain most of the votes, just enough to dispute the result and gather the crowd with your allegations of election fraud supported by the Western media apparatus.

The irony is that the countries doing the most to undermine democracy and peoples choice is the so called democratic west.

Azerbaijan Launches 'Anti-Terrorist Activities' in Nagorno-Karabakh - Defense Ministry

MOSCOW (Sputnik) - Azerbaijan launched local "anti-terrorist activities" in Nagorno-Karabakh to restore the constitutional order, the Azerbaijani Defense Ministry said on Tuesday.
"Therefore, local anti-terrorist activities have been launched to ensure the provisions of the Trilateral Statement, suppress large-scale provocations in the Karabakh economic region, to disarm and secure the withdrawal of formations of Armenia’s armed forces from our territories, neutralize their military infrastructure, provide the safety of the civilian population returned to the territories liberated from occupation, the civilians involved in construction and restoration work and our military personnel, and ultimately restore the constitutional order of the Republic of Azerbaijan," the statement said.
The Defense Ministry added that it informed the command of the Russian peacekeepers and the leadership of Monitoring Center about the ongoing events.
Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said that "the media are spreading information that the Azerbaijani side allegedly warned Russian peacekeepers 'in advance' about today's 'anti-terrorist operation' in Nagorno-Karabakh. This is not true," she said, adding that "Baku informed Moscow a few minutes before the start of the operation.


https://sputnikglobe.com/20230919/azerbaijan-launches-anti-terrorist-activities-in-nagorno-karabakh---defense-ministry-1113489403.html

MoD of Armenia

@ArmeniaMODTeam
As previously,the #Azerbaijani official reports&mass media again continue to disseminate false statements as if there are #Arm AF units, mil equipment, and personnel in #Nagorno_Karabakh.
MoD of #Armenia has repeatedly stated that the RA doesn't have an army in Nagorno-Karabakh.

https://twitter.com/ArmeniaMODTeam/status/1704088525539303472

Pussynyan and his handlers are trying to paint Russia as responsible for Armenia losing Nagorno-Karabakh. He may not have full support in Armenia but
such retardation indicates that too many Armenians have an inadequacy syndrome just like Ukrs and Gruzins. The US and its NATzO minions are leveraging
this syndrome to the max. In fact, it is their main ticket to success. Russia does not have any historical stake in Armenia so there is no point trying
to intervene to prevent it from becoming a NATzO colony.

The cunning plan of NATzO to place hypersonic missiles on Russia's borders needs to be met with automatic sub-sea missile platforms and Poseidon type
doomsday weapons deployed along the coasts of America and western U-rope. I am sure that NATzO will try to disable these platforms, in which case
they should detonate. Russia can send out more to replace them.

kvs wrote:Pussynyan and his handlers are trying to paint Russia as responsible for Armenia losing Nagorno-Karabakh.   He may not have full support in Armenia but
such retardation indicates that too many Armenians have an inadequacy syndrome just like Ukrs and Gruzins.   The US and its NATzO minions are leveraging
this syndrome to the max.  In fact, it is their main ticket to success.   Russia does not have any historical stake in Armenia so there is no point trying
to intervene to prevent it from becoming a NATzO colony.  

The cunning plan of NATzO to place hypersonic missiles on Russia's borders needs to be met with automatic sub-sea missile platforms and Poseidon type
doomsday weapons deployed along the coasts of America and western U-rope.   I am sure that NATzO will try to disable these platforms, in which case
they should detonate.   Russia can send out more to replace them.  

Why the **** should Russia have to defend those bitches. lol.

I think Mercouris is on the money here about the scenario unfolding and Pashinyan's role in it

Only point where I disagree is where Mercouris faults Pashinyan for having been outsmarted and outmaneuvered. I have no doubts he would be anyway if he were acting independently, but as it is I'm more than sure that he was simply following the instructions he was given at every turn, from his masters who could scarcely give a crap about Nagorno, Nagorno-Karawha? And are only interested in fermenting a situation that binds Armenia to NATO and expels the Russians out of there.

Sad. Sad for the people living there who are now under the threat of a new war. The Americans won't help them, the Russians have had their hands tied by all of Pashinyan's actions, it's now down to Iran and Russia acting by proxy through it with forces that in Nagorno-Karabakh that are ready to accept such assistance.

Maybe someone should deliver Pussynyan from his misery.
Some angry armenian nationalist. With the help of a SSO unit.
Or a few well aimed cruise missiles.

kvs wrote:The cunning plan of NATzO to place hypersonic missiles on Russia's borders needs to be met with automatic sub-sea missile platforms and Poseidon type
doomsday weapons deployed along the coasts of America and western U-rope.   I am sure that NATzO will try to disable these platforms, in which case
they should detonate.   Russia can send out more to replace them.  

I'm of two minds here

On the one hand yes, better to not be involved when you'll just be blamed by both sides

On the other hand, handing over the entire Transcaucasus to the kebab merchants and NATO is not a good idea. They can at any time decide to bury their differences and align against Russia, China, Iran, and so on. And flood Central Asia with all sorts of Islamists and pan-Turk retards. Not to mention get their energy needs from there owing to corrupt Central Asian regimes whose elites have been bought out. The land-corridor for doing that goes through Armenia, particularly now that Georgia is having cold feet about joining NATO. IMO this would not be an acceptable risk for either Russia, or Iran, or China. They don't want either Turkey or NATO in Central Asia and the Caspian.

We had at least two Armenian members a while back and they both seem to have stopped posting.

To be honest their last few posts reminded me of PD... we are so loyal to Russia and Russia just stabs us in the back...

The question is, have they stopped posting because they have turned and love the US and the west and think Russia is evil, or have they been blocked from accessing a pro Russian site?

It is hard to tell really, but neither has visited in a while.

If Armenia wont send troops to NK and doesn't claim the region as being Armenian and no referendums are being held it essentially becomes a case like Ukraine in 2014 where the locals are not wanting to be controlled by Baku, but Yerevan wont step up and take ownership... replace the people in NK with the people of the Donbass et al, and Baku with Kiev and Moscow as an external party not wanting to get directly involved and preferring some Minsk agreements where NK gets autonomy and to keep the languages they want to speak for themselves without abuse from Kiev (Baku). But Baku(Kiev) wants to sort it out with their military and want the land but really don't care so much for the people living there whom they see as being Foreign (Armenian actually... but Russian) in this analogy.

Russia is involved because these are former Soviet republics and Russia has kept these groups apart and kept them from killing each other since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Personally I think Russia should let the three sides sort it out for themselves because anything they try to impose will be artificial and simply will not last.

Let the people of NK decide with a referendum that includes options to join Armenia or Azerbaijan or Russia or become a neutral autonomous region.

Would be interesting to see some honest maps showing geology and resources in the region... I suspect other motivations on the part of some parties...

Pashinyan is betraying the Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh and trying to wash his hands of the matter. This has been noticed now even by the Armenian diaspora in the US
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/will-armenia-follow-ukraine-prime-minister-pashinyan-brings/

The republic of Artsakh is a seperate authority from that of Armenia proper, it has its own government, which is not controlled by Pashinyan. What it needs to do is accept help from the Iranians and through them the Russians too. I'm confident this is already underway. As the war gets going and Pashinyan shows his true face, opposition to him in Armenia can mount; the goal is to overthrow him and there is no time to wait for the ballot box. After that, Armenia needs to annex Artsakh - and thus in this way defy the West beyond all measure, but also allow them to conduct mobilization in its defense, and throw in their cards with Iran and Russia (and China) who will support them.

This is the only chance they have otherwise they will lose this territory. And after that it will only be a matter of time before they lose their southern province too which connects them to Iran and prevents a direct land corridor between Turkey and Azerbaijan.

From WarGonzo

The fighting in Nagorno-Karabakh does not lose intensity

According to sources from Armenia, citing the Nagorno-Karabakh Defense Army, fighting, with varying degrees of intensity, continues along the entire line of contact. Several villages came under the control of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces.

Shelling of Stepanakert, Martuni and surrounding areas continues. Civilian infrastructure also comes under artillery strikes.

Let us recall that yesterday Baku put forward demands, compliance with which is necessary to complete the so-called “counter-terrorism” operation carried out in Nagorno-Karabakh. These include the liquidation of all Armenian armed forces and the dissolution of the government of the unrecognized republic.

If the requirements are not met, the Azerbaijani Armed Forces will continue the ground operation, which, in principle, has not stopped.

My suspicion is that the US troops are there to prevent a military coup or assassination attempt on the traitor or to carry out serious countermeasures through reconnaissance for the enemy. Either way, this situation must be resolved and massively eliminated through Russian intervention.

If this does not happen, US and IDF troops will be stationed on the Caspian Sea and thus massively hinder the Russia-Iran axis.

I do not like it at all.

Through the mediation of the command of the Russian peacekeeping contingent stationed in Nagorno-Karabakh, an agreement was reached on a ceasefire from 13:00 today. In fact, all the conditions of the Azerbaijani side regarding the complete surrender of Armenian forces in the unrecognized Republic of Artsakh have been accepted.

Under the terms of the agreements, Armenia withdraws the remaining units of its army from the territory of Karabakh along with military equipment . The NKR defense forces are completely disarmed and disbanded.

Over the course of two days of stubborn fighting, units of the Armed Forces of Artsakh heroically defended themselves against an enemy who was several times superior in manpower and military equipment, inflicting the greatest losses on him. Unfortunately, the Artsakh side also suffered losses and wounded, and in some areas the enemy managed to break through to the combat positions of the Defense Army and take control of a number of heights and strategic road junctions. In the current situation, the actions of the international community towards ending the war and resolving the situation are insufficient. Taking all this into account, the authorities of the Republic of Artsakh accept the proposal of the command of the Russian peacekeeping mission regarding a ceasefire

– Armenian media quote the press service of the President of Nagorno-Karabakh.

The first negotiations are scheduled for tomorrow in the city of Yevlakh between Baku and Stepanakert on the conditions for the reintegration of Artsakh.

https://topcor-ru.translate.goog/39462-armija-nagornogo-karabaha-zajavila-o-kapituljacii.html?utm_source=topwar.ru&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

franco wrote:Through the mediation of the command of the Russian peacekeeping contingent stationed in Nagorno-Karabakh, an agreement was reached on a ceasefire from 13:00 today. In fact, all the conditions of the Azerbaijani side regarding the complete surrender of Armenian forces in the unrecognized Republic of Artsakh have been accepted.

Under the terms of the agreements, Armenia withdraws the remaining units of its army from the territory of Karabakh along with military equipment . The NKR defense forces are completely disarmed and disbanded.

Over the course of two days of stubborn fighting, units of the Armed Forces of Artsakh heroically defended themselves against an enemy who was several times superior in manpower and military equipment, inflicting the greatest losses on him. Unfortunately, the Artsakh side also suffered losses and wounded, and in some areas the enemy managed to break through to the combat positions of the Defense Army and take control of a number of heights and strategic road junctions. In the current situation, the actions of the international community towards ending the war and resolving the situation are insufficient. Taking all this into account, the authorities of the Republic of Artsakh accept the proposal of the command of the Russian peacekeeping mission regarding a ceasefire

– Armenian media quote the press service of the President of Nagorno-Karabakh.

The first negotiations are scheduled for tomorrow in the city of Yevlakh between Baku and Stepanakert on the conditions for the reintegration of Artsakh.

https://topcor-ru.translate.goog/39462-armija-nagornogo-karabaha-zajavila-o-kapituljacii.html?utm_source=topwar.ru&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

Da fuq?

Is Russia intent on kissing its own ass goodbye in the region?
Why get involved at all if all you can do is mediate a humiliating deal and with you having to leave in 2 years anyway?
Better have let Pashinyan and his US patrons to it.