Firebird wrote:There must be some circumstances where Russia will think, "fuck this, time to invade, support the pro-Russians, and let the Nazis fuck off to Euroland or suffer an occupation for 1000 yrs".
Could not have said it better myself... I hope that in the future the history books will include the Siege of Lvov among the truly great instances of sh!t-headed aggressors getting what was coming to them. ...turn that Nazi pig sty into a parking lot...
With all respect I oppose that. We must protect the right of Russian minorities, but the rights of Ukrainian people and Ukrainian nation should be respected at well. Full-scale military intervention is the last resort in the case there is no hope left.
Not to mention that the oligarchs in the West will blabber the nonsense things about "Russian agressiveness..." Remember the time of 1979 when Vietnam sent troops Cambodia to destroy the shithead Pol Pot. Today most of the world will agree that, at that time Vietnam was right, but in 1979, many countries said that Vietnam was commiting a "crime" of agressive invasion...
This is a highly relevant point, and it should be noted that Pol Pot's main proponent in the West was Zbignew Brzezinski, who just so happens to be an Obama administration adviser...I think people know where I'm going with this.
For me its clear Russia strategy is to just Hold novorossiya.. not to allow them to go to kiev ,but neither to allow them to collapse. and this is the best strategy from the bigger picture.. If Russia invade and helps Novorosiya goes to kiev.. they will have 20 millions ,or at least half of the nation calling them invaders... This is exactly what western elite really wants.. to give an AFganistan to Russia.. where you win all the battles but lose the war in the end ,because will be forced to leave.. since Russia economy cannot handle a long war with tanks in kiev.. This is why Kiev strategy have been always to lure Russia to invade.. is not accident.. this is designed by the Pentagon and WHite house.. If Russia invade in eastern ukraine. they will be forced to remove from power kiev and move their tanks there.. The problems Russia will face..
1) Framed Massacres with ukie media blaming Russia for civilians killed it doesn't matter if is a lie.. the Ukrainians zombies will believe it..they have no alternative media other than what kiev allows. 2) Sabotage attacks on its troops every day.. Road side bombs.. Imagine IRAQ but in Ukraine.. The american troops lost more people in roadside secret bombs than in combat. They lost a couple of hundreds reaching Bagdad.. and 5 thousand troops holding the place. In the end the leader the placed in power ,betrayed them and the entire war was lost to achieve its objective..the creation of a puppet state. 3)Civilians anger against them.. they will end fighting civilians too , blocking their tanks.. it will be really bad for Russia world image. 4)Ethnic Russians minorities attacked and killed .. more odessa masacres but in all ukraine. This means that Russia invading kiev could only increase the violence against Russians and damage its economy. 5)American and European media will have a field day , demonizing Russia..
If Russia in the other hand just stay undercover and keep helping the rebels to just hold a piece of land . The pressure will be on Kiev side.. they will have an army for a year fighting that will destroy its economy and demoralize them and divide the nation. and the more time the war last , the more the ukrainian economy will suffer ,the more innocent people will die ..and the more ukrainians will consider defecting and joining Russia side.
The official cease of fire ,even when not working.. still helps Russia plans to just freeze the war in most places ,keeps the war mostly into a lower profile.. ie..skirmishes ..Most people job will be on holding place and firing only when fired. Unfortunately civilians will continue being killed , but that only damage Kiev image.. not Russia. More and more Ukrainian members of the parliament are turning against kiev junta criminal war ,the more time pass..and the more time pass with an unsolved war.. the worse for kiev.
So Ukrainians will see.. Kiev bankrupt and Crimea doing well.. so their loyalty and patriotism to the Ukraine flag will change when they start to feel hungry and no money to buy anything. This is why Obama and the EU attack Russia economy.. because they do not want Ukrainians to notice any better quality of life on the the Russian side ,specially Crimea.
So all Russia needs to do to win.. is just to provoke a stalemate in the conflict ,end civilians casualties as much as possible even through military help.. ie.. helping Novorosiya push the nazis away of populated cities and away of artillery range too. and do wonder to save Russia economy even in the middle of sanctions.
I agree, the best option is economic pressure. Invasion means having to do the job the Ukrainians cannot do themselves. Run a functional state. Russia does not need tens of millions of moochers to feed. Let the EU do that.
Russia should push for the partition of Ukraine. We had Sudan partitioned to stop a bloody civil war. Ukraine is clearly a candidate for partition. It is yet another example of a country sewn together artificially by outside powers and which eventually breaks apart and/or degenerates into civil war. The Donbas has nothing to do with historical Ukraine. Ukraine's borders are a Soviet created absurdity. The western colonial powers also left a legacy of failed states by drawing borders not reflecting the reality on the ground.
Donetsk and Lugansk should secede first. If Kharkov and the other regions down to Odessa decide to join them later, then that will be a future headache. But there is no need to force a partition now. It will fail because of blowback. The people there have to decide to fight for their freedom first, like the people of Donetsk and Lugansk.
Firebird wrote:There must be some circumstances where Russia will think, "fuck this, time to invade, support the pro-Russians, and let the Nazis fuck off to Euroland or suffer an occupation for 1000 yrs".
Could not have said it better myself... I hope that in the future the history books will include the Siege of Lvov among the truly great instances of sh!t-headed aggressors getting what was coming to them. ...turn that Nazi pig sty into a parking lot...
With all respect I oppose that. We must protect the right of Russian minorities, but the rights of Ukrainian people and Ukrainian nation should be respected at well. Full-scale military intervention is the last resort in the case there is no hope left.
Not to mention that the oligarchs in the West will blabber the nonsense things about "Russian agressiveness..." Remember the time of 1979 when Vietnam sent troops Cambodia to destroy the shithead Pol Pot. Today most of the world will agree that, at that time Vietnam was right, but in 1979, many countries said that Vietnam was commiting a "crime" of agressive invasion...
I'd like to agree with you, and I hope that the Ukie nazis, ultra-nationalists and pro-US/EU/NATO apparatchiks can be defeated and removed from power without bloodshed, but if push comes to shove, Russia needs to push right back and meet force with force, and in effect act as the guarantor of Novorossian security. If the Ukies try to move in force against Novorossiya, Russia should do what it takes to smash them flat. If the Ukies try to move in force against Crimea, Russia should make it clear that an open declaration of war will soon follow, and that the wars conduct will involve total destruction of the regime and neutralization of Ukraine's war-making abilities.
In the later case, that means regime decapitation strikes and destruction of all functioning military units culminating in a temporary occupation of Ukraine. The occupation would last until regime leaders are apprehended or liquidated, and war-industries are demolished (or better yet, packed up and carted off as war compensation) and the associated engineers and scientists "liberated" and placed in suitable vocational employment back in Russia. Yuznoye/Yuzmash in Dnepropetrovsk (aka Kolomoiskigrad..) are prime examples of such (it would be negligent to leave ICBM technology and manufacturing capabilities in the hands of the Ukie fascists).
Uniat priests calls for depriving Orthodox from basic civil rights http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.gr/2014/09/uniat-priests-calls-for-depriving.html Talking about "greek" catholic church .. in fact a false flag schema of Catholicism to invade eastern Orthodox church by dressing their catholic priests as orthodox ..
Uniat priests calls for depriving Orthodox from basic civil rights I just saw this one on YouTube and it is very good. Here what it says about this video in the "About" section of the YouTube page: (with original spelling).
"UA priest calls to deprive parishioners of Moscow Patriarchate churhces of rights to be elected and work in official organizations. A bit ironic, as in fact he talks not about churches in Russia, but canonical local Ukrainian Orthodox Christian Church which formally subordinates to Moscow Patriarchate and is opposed by not-recognized "Church of Kyiv Patriarchate" which splitted from Ukrainian Orthodox Christian Church after Philaret (patriarch of Kyiv Patriarchate) failed to be elected as new Patriarch in the beginning of 90's".
Now, longtime readers already know that I do not recognized the Moscow Patriarchate as a legitimate part of the Russian Orthodox Church (for details, read this: http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2013/02/russia-and-islam-part-two-russian.html where I explain this little known but crucial issue) and I also oppose the use of the term "canonical" in the sense of "recognized by the powers that be" which is, apparently, how the author (and most modernist and ecumenist Orthodox people understand it to be). In the Ukraine one side recognizes one Orthodox Church as "canonical" because the secular power in Kiev happens to recognize it as such (for purely political reasons) and calls the other "schismatic" while the other side also recognizes one Orthodox Church as "canonical" because the secular power in Moscow happens to recognize it it as such (also for purely political reasons) as calls the other "schismatic. In the authentic Christian tradition "canonical" does not mean "recognized by the secular regime" but rather "in accordance with Church canons". That is a topic where neither the Ukie Church nor the Moscow Patriarchate wants to go, or even mention [those interested in the topic, please see the note at the bottom of this page]. With all these caveats in mind, I have to say the following:
What this Uniat priest proposes is quite amazing. Not only do they want to seize the church buildings which belong to the "autonomous" Ukrainian Orthodox Chruch to which the Moscow Patriarchate granted autonomy (for purely political reasons, what else?) but he wants to deprive of political rights (hold an official position) those Ukrainians who attend these "autonomous" UOC parishes.
I have been getting a lot of flak from offended Latin Christians about my posts in which I claim that the Vatican is the "creator" of the Ukraine and that it still plays a central role in feeding the anti-Russian and anti-Orthodox hatred in the Ukraine. I already posted one such example recently, and today I am posting this second one. Not because I want to bash Latin Christians, but because I believe, strongly, that the truth about the Ukraine cannot be understood unless the behind-the-scenes "feeder mechanisms" are brought to light. And since my blog has never been a popularity contest, I fully plan to continue "covering" this topic (-: it will never get me as much flak as my unrepentant use of the "AngloZionist" anyway :-)
To me, this is quite simple, really: intellectually honest Latin Christians will be distressed by this, but they will not bother denying it or "explaining it away", and they will do whatever they can in their personal lives to oppose and denounce this. Those less encumbered by honesty will try hard to deny it, blame "a few bad apples", try to find "Orthodox equivalents" in the past or say they personally never saw any manifestation of anti-Orthodox hatred (those interested in the techniques used by these Latins can see here and here).
Still, I hope that most readers will find this topic relevant, important and not discussed elsewhere (which is one of the key goals of this blog).
Some of you might point out that the Moscow Patriarchate has a long record of using state power to persecute non-MP Orthodox Christians. This is quite true, even today. But I would point out a crucial difference: in the past, such actions were the result of the policies of the top MP clergy - bishops, not priests - and in more recent times, I would even argue that only a small minority of MP bishops. This is a small consolation of those on the receiving end of such actions (they typically get their parishes taken away by OMON forces), but I think that it is important to be honest here and say that nowadays the vast majority of MP laity and a strong majority of MP clergy does not support that kind of thuggery. That does not make the MP more legitimate in a (correctly used) canonical sense, but it most definitely makes it much more "Christian" in an ethical sense, certainly more than it was even 15-20 years ago. Uniat hatred for Orthodoxy is a normal and widespread phenomenon, it is a core feature of the Uniat identity and it has no equivalent inside the Moscow Patriarchate.
Finally, just to preempt another attempts at equating the unequatable, you may notice that this Uniat is disguising himself - with cross and all - as an Orthodox priest. You will never see an Orthodox priest disguising himself as a Latin. This is a purely Latin thing to do to con the ignorant. Likewise, the Units are obliged to accept the Frankish version of the Symbol of Faith (aka "Creed") in which the words "and the Son" (or filioque) are added to the original text, but they are not obliged to say that when they recite the Symbol. This "believing one thing, but not saying so" is also a unique Latin feature which serves the same purpose at the disguise: to con the ignorant and erase visible differences (not matter how crucial - there is no higher dogma in Christianity then the Symbol). This is also why the Latins always speak of geography (eastern Churches) or appearances (eastern Rite) but almost never about fundamental dogmatic disagreements (of which there are plenty!) or about the undeniable fact that the West has been Orthodox for the first 1000 years of its history.
Cheers,
The Saker
Note for those interested in the topic:
In the true Christian tradition a Church *never* derives its authenticity (or, to misuse the modern term again, its "canonicity") from the secular state nor from the number of churches (in the sense of church, parish, *buildings*) you have acquired courtesy of state patronage. As I have mentioned it here in the past, the "criterion of truth" or the "authentic Christian character" from a Church is derived according to the following ancient principles:
The full unadulterated preservation faith "which the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded; and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian" (St. Athanasius)
and
The full unadulterated preservation of that "which has been believed everywhere, always and by all" (Saint Vicent of Lerins). So no innovations, especially no dogmatic ones.
The short-term combining the two above is often referred to as "consensus of the Fathers" (consensus patrum): that upon which the saints and councils of the early Church agreed upon.
One could say that the innovating "got-their-canonicity-from-the-secular-state" Churches are all in communion with each other, but not in communion with the original, early Church.
@arpakola: I do not know much about the history of Eastern Orthodox, but the reason why Vladimir of Kyivian Rus reject Catholicism because Russia did not want to be a vassal state of Vatican... and I believe that was a wise choice.
No. Because he wanted to have close ties with the Byzantine Empire who was the most advanced and powerful by the time. It was a wise choice who greatly lead to what is Russia today but few would imagine at the time that the Empire would soon vanish into thin air essentially leading to the millennia long separation between East and West and the subsequent domination of the world by the Catholic or the Catholic friendly countries and an equally long isolation of Russia which IMO can be altered only by very close integration with China and India whose religions and civilizations are more tolerant towards diversity and not antagonistic with ours.
Poor hahols, haven't realize that the american porn industry is in a 75% decline in terms of revenue since 2008 Too much internet and piracy and too much stuff already available, here in RDF we give inner information about everything
Let me add a few serious notes. This man looks profoundly broken. He is finished apart from the fact the Russian leadership decide to prolong the agony and don't rush to conclusions. I take notes.
The silly French bitch at the IMF seemed to be giving Willy Wonker some shit.
Question, who and how many will replace Porkyshenko?
Will there be a greater Novorossiyan leader? Will that skank Tymoshenko reappear? Will Shite Sektor take over the West? How much of a federalisation or fragmentation will occur?
Persoanlly, I look at Japan. America nukes it 70 yrs ago, was utterly hated by it, but America still has its bases there.. without much Japanese consent I suspect. The West of the Ukr will never be friends with Russia, so I think just get some bases there, and let the The Centre is more tricky to figure out. The S and East are obviously pro Russian and should be treated that way. Infact the only reason every doesnt demand reunification is that they want to have influence over the more reasonable Central Ukr part.
Translation of the foto 1st day 1. Establish peace in Ukraine. 2. Sign the association with the EU. 3. Give special status to the Russian language. 4. A soldier in the ATO will get 1000 UAH per day. 5. Establish decentralization of power in Donbass. 6. Return Crimea. 7. Settle relationship with Russia.
100th day 1. More than 10 000 perished Ukrainian citizens. 2. Europe delayed to 12/31/2015. 3. Didn't even start. 4. A soldier gets 3000 UAH per month. 5. Donbass decentralized itself into Novorossia. 6. Elections by Russian legal codex happened in Crimea. 7. Blamed Russia for invasion into Ukraine.
Malaysian Flight MH17 crash analysis, by The Russian Union of Engineers http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.gr/2014/09/malaysian-flight-mh17-crash-analysis-by.html
This is an excellent detailed analysis of the MH17 tragedy by the Russian Union of Engineers which quite frankly illustrates how heavily censored the Dutch “report” is.
We will let you digest this report and come to your own conclusion, which in all likelihood will explain the infamous high velocity projectiles whitewash pumped out by the western “press”.
This review was undertaken by experts who not only know the subject matter but have objectively presented evidence that must be considered with the legitimacy that is inherent to it. Here is the overall description of the “Analytical Group” from the report: A group of experts from the Russian Union of engineers was convened to analyze the situation, including reserve officers with experience in the use of anti-aircraft missile systems, as well as pilots having experience with aircraft weapons.This problem was also discussed at a meeting of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, where many variants were tested and discussed again. In the course of their analysis the experts used materials derived from public sources, found in the media. The situation was also analyzed using a computer simulation of the Su-25. You can download the English version of the report here.
The original Russian version of the report is here. [note: the links above point to documents in the proprietary M$ DOCX format. For those who, like myself might prefer the free ODT or PDF format, I have made them available here. The Saker]
======================================
I would name it Ukranian ballad
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Hannibal Barca wrote:Thank you again superb stuff! I will read it carefully.
out of topic but... > http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_17/09/2014_542971
I really wasn't hoping for anything better. For me he is following the steps Samaras did 6 months before his own election to prove to NWO that he is a man on their orders. I know SYRIZA from day one from NTUA and really know what they stand for but 2008 was a complete giveaway. I mean this small orange revolution to destabilize Karamanlis was all executed by SYRIZA's mechanisms in the same way Klitchko and co. worked in Ukraine. I know Karamanlis was a shit and he has a great deal to why we ended up broke and beaten, any serious person understand this, but he was reasonable in dealing with Russia in particular and East in general so he had to be destroyed before established knew ethics...
The only thing I hope is a co-governance of SYRIZA-ND with Golden Dawn third. This will really put serious pressure to the american frontmen here! The other thing I hope for is that SYRIZA will not be able to make such a blatant U-turn because their voters will punish them like punished PASOK and will not hang around like the old voters of ND. In this case the rhetoric towards Russia will soften somewhat although the big picture will probably remain the same like the current gov.
higurashihougi wrote:@arpakola: I do not know much about the history of Eastern Orthodox, but the reason why Vladimir of Kyivian Rus reject Catholicism because Russia did not want to be a vassal state of Vatican... and I believe that was a wise choice.
At that time it was a wise choice because the catholic church was corrupted and totally moved away from christianity that teach You shall no kill , No lie , and love enemies.. etc.. Now is a totally different story.. Im in shock when i see orthodox priest in Ukraine asking for the killing of Russians. Those people are CIA paid bastards ,they are not Christian not even 1%. They are worse that atheist because they use Religion as a cover to mislead people.. They are simply Charlatans. Now contrary to what everyone have heard in the media Catholic church is a real Christian religion.. a real religion of peace, no bullshit like what we see in Ukrainiane or Even in Russia that is totally political institutions. And this is the reason why the western neocon elite attack the Vatican.. and use their media to discredit them.. Trying to make it look that the errors of a few , the sexual misconduct is representative of the church policy or the majority of its members. I have friends with family members who are Catholic priest and their life is truly genuinely dedicated to service of others.. ie.. thats almost 7 days a week doing charity , Visiting hospitals , praying for sick people , communitarian work.. is a really missionary life as many will say.. and they truly do what they do ,not because of money. since they most of them live a humble life. The Pope comes from a Jesuit organization from Catholic church ,that takes thing a new level ,and they do the same charity but around the world . They have been claimed to "Wanting to control the world" because they talk with the elite and go to their parties.. but the goal is always to promote change in most powerful people.
In Ukraine if a orthodox priest calls for the killing of Russians.. and promote war..and participate in violent protest nothing happens.. In any part of the west that a catholic priest do something like that he is automatically removed from his church and potentially kicked from the church is he shows no regret of his actions . Thats the major difference today between Catholic and Orthodox church.. Christianity in the east is mostly political institution and no one monitor the mis-behaviour of any priest.. Anyone can deceive people when he teach things against christianity. I imagine that the way , all this ukrainians priest get away with their Fraud is by citing the jewish old testament in the bible ,picking and choosing passages ,examples of violence was used by so called prophets and reading things out of context. This is the reason why Obama is killing Christians in the middle east..and the Neocons attack the catholic church at any opportunity they can. Im amazed at the Ukrainian charlatans that wears religious clothing as if was christian priest and calls for the killing of others. You will never see that in any part of the west today in The Catholic Church.. The official position of Vatican in ukraine is a call for peace ,that both sides solve things peacefully. Saker is wrong by saying Catholic CHurch feeds the violence.. People who say that do not understand the difference neutrality vs supporting nazism. Being a pacifist.. in the catholic church means to take no sides and support Peace..to create bridges , not to take sides. that is the Catholic Church. This is why you can see the pope visiting Fidel Castro.. and later shaking hands with Obama and later do the same with IRAN president or north korean president.. that doesn't means he support their actions ,but actually is the opposite ,their goal is to promote in them a change. In fact the best way to know what are the real opinions of the Catholic church is to see which leaders the pope visit.. So don't be surprised if for example the pope visit and shake hands with Netanyahu in israel. those are the countries that the church believe needs help ,needs a sermon and needs to change. other times the visit is on nations is only to promote the catholic church or reinforce its presence. So if you see the Pope shaking hands with Poroshenko.. Is no different than Putin shaking hands with him too. Is all about not closing the doors for dialogue and promoting a change in aptitude. . This is why you can see the Pope shaking hands with the worse scum in the world you can imagine. Is seeking to promote a change.
The next video from a former israeli jew , explain how the western Neocon Elite that is at war with Russia is also at war with christianity.. Why ? because is a real religion of peace ,and NATO cannot operate in a world that there are no wars.. Western Elite finance terrorism to provoke violence and unrest and justify their invasion in other nations as they now doing in Syria. So this is why they attack Christians.. because its religion can counter the violence they promote and can end wars.. which they need to continue going for NATO to exist..
This is why Holywood and Western media but also regular american entertainment networks.. ie Discovery channels ,history channels ,all western bigger media ..that is controlled by the neocon jewish elite attack Christianity and in special the catholic Church that is the most organized one. In just one week you could see anti-christian documentaries in the discovery channel ,ie.. that either speak about christ never existed, or that Mary was his wife or that they had a son.. there was even one documentary that was explaining that Jesus was a magician not a real thing. And jewish media praise a lot leonardo davinci after the Famous book of davinci code. The western Neocon Rich elite have a real massive campaign against christianity and in support of Islam and they are using all their media empire from news to entertainment/music to holywood to attack christianity.
Because Russia -------- the west.. 1)Is a christian nation -attack christianity and support Islam. 2)Support traditional family values -Suport gay rights and marriage and non traditional family. 3)Because Russia is connected to europe - US and NATO wars are aimed at countering Russia energy through its energy business. business. by blocking the transit in Ukraine and building a pipeline from Qatar->Syria->europe..real reason of obama war in Syria.
The western Elite also support/Force at any cost multiculturalism. ie white + blacks , Christians + muslins , why? because is more easier to create unrest in nations and provoke civil wars and split nations is there is different factions that are totally opposite. So consider Multiculturism/muslin in europe as a trojan horse of western elite.. If any european nation from the EU choose to split from the union.. the white house will activate is terrorist cells in Europe that is muslins and Nazis.. both financed by the white house..and will put both sides to fight each other to provoke a civil war.
US policy in the world the violence and civil unrest is part of the plan.is a very well thought ,very carefully planned policy of destabilization of the entire world in nations that are friendly to Russia and turn them into slave countries of them. To fully manage the isolation of Russia economy.. is necessary that any nation that cooperates in Russia economy be removed its government from power.
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The only reason why Russia exists today is Orthodoxy. If Russia was Catholic it would have been finished immediately after the end of the Soviet era if not centuries earlier. Or it would be degraded to one more no-nation like Scotland or the low countries or the Baltic or even UK etc. Even like it is today we straggle to diverge the country from american cultural hegemony and reclaim that gap much needed for the country to renaissance socially and culturally. But for this I will speak further when I find the energy to describe what I observed in my last visit.
LOL you petty rodent how did you ever reach the conclusions that catholicism would destroy Russia??? There are lots of catholic country in Europe France, Italy, Spain, Poland etc. Were they finished or degraded???
From my non-christian point of view i prefer catholicism cuz its more cold and rationalistic and orthodoxy is more messed up and it carries the baggage of the byzantine imperial ideology which made Bizantium and Russia by extension so fucked up and stagnant if you look at european history you will see that all great advances in europe were made by western christians - the renaissance - catholic Italy - the dutch golden age - mixed catholic-protestant Netherlands - the enlightenment - catholic France and anglican England - the industrial revolution - anglican England, protestant United States
U see Russia had none of them and orthodoxy together with Mongol conquest has been responsible for russian backwardness through most of its modern history and even when Peter the "great" took power and started reforming Russia he only taught his people how to shave beard, dress western style and fight western style but not how to organize country western style... The ideas that feudalism must be abolished and powers must be separated and that tsar cant have absolute power but must be subordinate to the law were unthinkable for him. These western things only started to be implemented in lat 19th and early 20th century and only then russia really started developing.
Dude tell me whats the point of clinging desperately to an old and fossilized ideology??? Its just a beliefs and beliefs can be changed.
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