Indian Air Force (IAF): News

collegeboy16 wrote:Thrust vectoring nozzles should cover the lack of canards me thinkso

Only drawback of Mig-35 is that it is still not operational. This was one of the reasons why IAF didn't went for it(and of course "don't put all eggs in one basket argument").

GarryB wrote:

Only drawback of Mig-35 is that it is still not operational. This was one of the reasons why IAF didn't went for it(and of course "don't put all eggs in one basket argument").

How many Rafales are there currently in Indian service?

From what I have read the Mig-35 for the Russian AF needs a little bit of tweaking... perhaps a 6 weapon point wing (with wing tip missiles) and perhaps other design changes... and will be ready for production to start in 2016... not that far away.

GarryB wrote:

Only drawback of Mig-35 is that it is still not operational. This was one of the reasons why IAF didn't went for it(and of course "don't put all eggs in one basket argument").

How many Rafales are there currently in Indian service?

From what I have read the Mig-35 for the Russian AF needs a little bit of tweaking... perhaps a 6 weapon point wing (with wing tip missiles) and perhaps other design changes... and will be ready for production to start in 2016... not that far away.

I think we should order atleast 60 Mig-35s off the shelf and buy 60 odd Rafales.

Viktor wrote:

chenzhao wrote:Rafale is best choice for Indian Air Force to replace obsolescent MIG-21s .Rafale has AESA radar, low radar RCS features ,  it is far better than Pakistan's JF-17 and F-16 fighter. It is not cheap, but I believe India's rapid growing economy could afford it.

Perhaps but the thing is that India could for the same amount of money (30 bin $) buy 250 MIG-35 and 40 Antey-2500 and Im sure Russia would add few Amour 1650 for free   

Their choice.

Y2J wrote:

Viktor wrote:

chenzhao wrote:Rafale is best choice for Indian Air Force to replace obsolescent MIG-21s .Rafale has AESA radar, low radar RCS features ,  it is far better than Pakistan's JF-17 and F-16 fighter. It is not cheap, but I believe India's rapid growing economy could afford it.

Perhaps but the thing is that India could for the same amount of money (30 bin $) buy 250 MIG-35 and 40 Antey-2500 and Im sure Russia would add few Amour 1650 for free   

Their choice.

but u can not compare mig-35 with rafale.

TR1 wrote:MiG-29SMT is not in the same field as Rafale.

MiG-35 wasn't ready, wasn't technically as impressive, and they wanted a Western supplier. I think the latter part is stupid, but it is their Air Force.

Today's MIG-35 is STILL not ready in any case.

The only issue with Rafale is the price, and the fact that the MMRCA outgrew itself wildly.

Rafale is best choice for Indian Air Force to replace obsolescent MIG-21s .Rafale has AESA radar, low radar RCS features , it is far better than Pakistan's JF-17 and F-16 fighter. It is not cheap, but I believe India's rapid growing economy could afford it.

MiG-29SMT is not in the same field as Rafale.

Today's MIG-35 is STILL not ready in any case.

The only issue with Rafale is the price, and the fact that the MMRCA outgrew itself wildly.

but u can not compare mig-35 with rafale.

But yes, the only sticking point now is the price of Rafale. I think we now must wait for the next government. If BJP(pro-Russia) comes to power, who knows India may buy 50 Mig-35s and 50 Su-35S(instead of uber-expensive Rafales). However, if Congress(pro-US) continues to remain in power, then the Rafale deal will go throgh AT ANY COST.

NEW DELHI: With the UPA-II's tenure coming to an end, France had wanted India to sign a pact to provide government guarantee for completion of negotiation for 126 fighter aircraft with Dassault company but defence minister A K Antony has refused to do so.

France, whose company Dassault has been shortlisted for supplying the multi-role medium combat Rafale aircraft, had proposed the signing of the agreement apparently to ensure that negotiations for the multi-billion dollar deal do not get affected if a different party comes to power after the Lok Sabha elections.

"The French side wanted government guarantee to the negotiations," sources said.

Antony, however, refused to sign such an agreement, arguing that governmental guarantee cannot be provided as negotiations were still underway, they said.

The defence ministry is still negotiating the price and terms and conditions of the contract with the French firm Dassault Aviation, whose Rafale combat aircraft was selected as the lowest bidder two years ago for supplying 126 warplanes.

Antony had recently ordered that the process to arrive at the lowest bidder in the multi-vendor tender be reviewed after completion of the whole procedure involved in the procurement as questions had been raised over it.

The two sides are trying to tackle the issue of life cycle costs (LCC) relating to Rafale.

"There are complaints about the procedure of calculating the life cycle cost and that issue is not yet settled. Before bringing the deal to the Cabinet Committee on Security for final approval, we would like to get clear on that aspect," he had said.

As per the Indian defence procedure, the firms offering lowest prices and meeting the requirements of the respective services are given the contract and in this deal to procure 126 combat aircraft, LCC has been taken into view to determine the lowest bidder.

Senior BJP leader and former finance minister Yashwant Sinha has written to Antony raising a number of questions over the "conceptual shift" in the defence procurement policy and expressed fears that LCC concept may bring in corruption.

Indian Flanker wrote:

NEW DELHI: With the UPA-II's tenure coming to an end, France had wanted India to sign a pact to provide government guarantee for completion of negotiation for 126 fighter aircraft with Dassault company but defence minister A K Antony has refused to do so.

France, whose company Dassault has been shortlisted for supplying the multi-role medium combat Rafale aircraft, had proposed the signing of the agreement apparently to ensure that negotiations for the multi-billion dollar deal do not get affected if a different party comes to power after the Lok Sabha elections.

"The French side wanted government guarantee to the negotiations," sources said.

Antony, however, refused to sign such an agreement, arguing that governmental guarantee cannot be provided as negotiations were still underway, they said.

The defence ministry is still negotiating the price and terms and conditions of the contract with the French firm Dassault Aviation, whose Rafale combat aircraft was selected as the lowest bidder two years ago for supplying 126 warplanes.

Antony had recently ordered that the process to arrive at the lowest bidder in the multi-vendor tender be reviewed after completion of the whole procedure involved in the procurement as questions had been raised over it.

The two sides are trying to tackle the issue of life cycle costs (LCC) relating to Rafale.

"There are complaints about the procedure of calculating the life cycle cost and that issue is not yet settled. Before bringing the deal to the Cabinet Committee on Security for final approval, we would like to get clear on that aspect," he had said.

As per the Indian defence procedure, the firms offering lowest prices and meeting the requirements of the respective services are given the contract and in this deal to procure 126 combat aircraft, LCC has been taken into view to determine the lowest bidder.

Senior BJP leader and former finance minister Yashwant Sinha has written to Antony raising a number of questions over the "conceptual shift" in the defence procurement policy and expressed fears that LCC concept may bring in corruption.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rafale-deal-Antony-refuses-govt-guarantee-to-France/articleshow/32965491.cms

France and India are fully on track to seal the deal for the around $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project, under which IAF will acquire 126 Rafale fighter jets, French ambassador Francios Richier said.

"Negotiations have recently achieved significant progress. We are looking to sign the intergovernmental agreement together with the commercial contract for the planes," said Richier, speaking exclusively to TOI.

Reacting to recent reports that France had asked the Indian government to sign a government guarantee to safeguard the negotiations for the fighters, Richier denied that any such agreement was asked for. "We have worked very closely with all Indian governments, so we have no reason to ask for such an agreement," he said.

The final MMRCA contract is expected to be inked by the next government that comes to office in May-June after the general elections. Even the ongoing French Scorpene project, under which six submarines are being built at Mazagon Docks, was eventually signed by the UPA-1 government in October 2005 despite the bulk of its negotiations taking place under the previous NDA regime.

"We are confident about the progress in the negotiation process (for the MMRCA project)," said Richier. Though the pace of the final negotiations has been glacial since the Rafale was finally selected over its rivals in January 2012, the IAF is also now quite hopeful that the contract with French aviation major Dassault will be inked in the 2014-2015 fiscal.

Dassault and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) finalized the MMRCA work-share agreement in February, under which the Indian defence PSU will have a 70% role, after months of bitter wrangling. Under the MMRCA project, while the first 18 jets will come in "fly-away condition", HAL is to manufacture the rest 108 fighters under licence over six years.

"Now that issues like work-share, warranty and liquidity damages have been resolved, the responsibility matrix of all Indian production agencies is being finalized. Once that is done, the draft contract will be readied for the final government clearance," said a source.

Eurofighter Typhoon as well as the US fighters that lost out in the long-drawn selection process are eagerly waiting in the wings in the hope of staging a comeback in the dogfight over the world's biggest such tender.

But there seems little possibility of that happening now, with India having invested almost a decade in finally selecting the Rafale after extensive technical and commercial evaluation. Down to just 34 fighter squadrons at present when it requires at least 44, IAF is banking upon the MMRCA project to retain its combat edge against adversaries.


Defence News - Deal for 126 Rafale fighters close to being signed

India drives a hard bargain.
Loves making those Frenchies sweat.

I just can't see how Dassault can produce 120 planes.

GarryB wrote:The M2K is a good aircraft but I really don't see the logic that says the Rafale is better than the Mig-35.

At the time the M2K was better at strike than the Mig-29, but the model Mig-29 was not designed as a multirole aircraft.

Have they changed that part of the contract too?

I thought the contract was for 16 foreign built aircraft and the remaining aircraft to be locally built.

TR1 wrote:Rafale is France's primary fighter, that's why. It is well developed and funded.

Russia is buying MiG-35 to support MiG. The plane's development is years behind schedule (as evidence by the latest SMT buy), and does not enjoy nearly the same priority or financial blessing as the Rafale.

They are certainly peers, but I would not find it hard to believe the Rafale overall maybe a more capable bird.

The Rafale is a newer design, even considering the MiG-35s new gen airframe compared to legacy MiG-29s...they still did not start from a clean slate like the French.
Doesn't mean the 35 is uncompetitive, but nonetheless....

If MiG had the 1/3rd of the T-50s priority, they would have flown that MiG-35 model we saw (bigger wings, tail, more pylons) several years ago and would be producing the bird by now.
The reality is the plane is still not finished.

And I would be ashamed to compare Dassault's production facilities with the state that MIG has been driven to.