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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Berkut
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    Post  Berkut Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:40 pm

    mack8 wrote:Very nice, thanks Ult! Hopefully we'll see 50-8 soon too.

    It is T-50-6-2 next. Wink Although -8 should be right in its heels.
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    Post  mack8 Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:29 pm

    Ah yes, forgot about the 6-1 and 6-2 numbering.

    On another note wonder what's going on with the underside of the right wing, on a portion of it colour seems slightly different (same with the stabilator fairing).
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    Post  Guest Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:46 am

    "Russia’s Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said in an interview with Rossiya 24 TV Channel that flight development testing of the PAK FA fighter is nearly completed. “Several planes are now primarily testing airborne avionics. The tests proving the aircraft’s flight characteristics have practically been completed,” Borisov was quoted as saying."

    Source: http://alert5.com/2015/12/08/flight-tests-of-pak-fa-nearly-over/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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    Post  Berkut Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 pm

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 21 VRJHsad
    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 21 IY8BP6i
    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 21 GTzGXRb
    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 21 OKEvXoe

    Original from; http://vk.com/z25team?w=wall-9823397_12753%2Fall

    Not confirmed to be insider info but sounds very likely and in line with what we have seen;

    И пожалуй главные в словах: "восстановлен", "в ходе капитально-восстановительного ремонта". По факту от Т-50-5 на Т-50-5Р - БРЭО, конус, фонарь, ВО.

    And perhaps the key words : "restored", "in the course of overhaul and refurbishment." On the fact of the T-50-5 in T-50-5R remains avionics, nosecone, canopy, vertical stabilizers.
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    Post  mack8 Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:35 pm

    Beautiful. Sorry to pester you again Berkut, but what you think about the oddly colored sections on the right underside (wing and stabilator)? Testing samples of the RAM paint, or something more mundane? Thanks.
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    Post  Berkut Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:49 pm

    I have about as much clue as you do here. Razz IE no idea. It has been speculated that it is some kind of RAM testing but nothing confirmed yet. Unless it is confirmed before March, i guess we will know for sure when we see T-50-6-2...

    Either way, havent heard a pip about T-50-5R having RAM applied.
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    Post  mack8 Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:51 pm

    Thanks, as known some time back the insider said the RAM paint is grey, so it does look quite plausible this is what we're seeing (the light green section being just the "undercoat" so to speak)
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    Post  Guest Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:28 pm

    mack8 wrote:Thanks, as known some time back the insider said the RAM paint is grey, so it does look quite plausible this is what we're seeing (the light green section being just the "undercoat" so to speak)

    Tho he said its very dark gray.
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    Post  Berkut Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:51 pm

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 21 ESZlNL5

    Т-50-6-2 - сборка после нанесения РПП, подготовка к доработкам стыка центроплана и воздухозаборника, сроки пока те же.
    Т-50-8 - завершение окончательной сборки, доработка топливной системы. Передача на ЛИС по новому графику - 20.01.2016, частотные испытания - 27.01.-01.02.2016, нанесение РПП - 25.02.-25.03.2016, первый полёт - 15.04.2016, сдача - 22.04.2016.
    Т-50-9 - монтаж ОЧК 10.02.2016, монтаж двигателей - 10.03.2016, передача на ЛИС - 20.03.2016
    Т-50-10 - изготовление частей фюзеляжа, стыковка фюзеляжа и передача в цех окончательной сборки - до 15.01.2016, монтаж ОЧК - 01.03.2016, передача на ЛИС - 30.03.2016.
    Т-50-11 - изготовление центроплана и головной части фюзеляжа, стыковка фюзеляжа и передача в цех окончательной сборки - до 01.03.2016, монтаж ОЧК - 10.04.2016, передача на ЛИС - 15.05.2016.

    T-50-6-2 - assembly after the application of RAM, preparations for completions center-seam and air intake, deadlines are the same.
    T-50-8 - completion of final assembly, completion of the fuel system. Transfer to LIS for the new schedule - 20/01/2016, frequency testing - 27.01.-01.02.2016, the application of RAM - 25.02.-25.03.2016, the first flight - 15.04.2016, handover - 22.04.2016.
    T-50-9 - Mounting wing sections/panels 10.02.2016, installation of engines - 10.03.2016, handover to LIS - 20.03.2016
    T-50-10 - manufacture of parts of the fuselage, the fuselage dock and transfer to the final assembly shop - before 15.01.2016, installation wing sections/panels - 01.03.2016, handover to LIS - 30.03.2016.
    T-50-11 - Manufacturing and head of center fuselage, the fuselage dock and transfer to the final assembly shop - before 01.03.2016, installation wing panels - 10.04.2016, handover to LIS - 15/05/2016.

    Assuming things go well, 5 frames to be delivered before summer. Chances are, we will be lucky if all that happens before fall and maybe even not this year at all considering all the delays. -8 was supposed to be at LIS aaaages ago. T-50-11 is the last flying frame of prototypes, -12 is static. After that, first serials. -12 and first serials, 2017 for sure imho.
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    Post  Isos Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:31 pm

    Are the planning to cover the engines or let them like it's done on the Su-35 ? It could reduce rcs and make it more beautifull for the export. With engines exposed it's uggly.

    What are they going to do with the testing modeles when the the Pak Fa will be mass produced ?
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    Post  Berkut Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:03 pm

    Isos wrote:Are the planning to cover the engines or let them like it's done on the Su-35 ? It could reduce rcs and make it more beautifull for the export. With engines exposed it's uggly.

    Yes.

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 21 175145

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 21 Rgcb25J

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 21 XjpMkMD
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    Post  Isos Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:14 pm

    Berkut wrote:
    Isos wrote:Are the planning to cover the engines or let them like it's done on the Su-35 ? It could reduce rcs and make it more beautifull for the export. With engines exposed it's uggly.

    Yes.
    ...

    Thanks for the pics.

    It's really better than the previous.
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    Post  Vann7 Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:58 am



    Is there any images of how the rear engines of Pak-FA will look
    if covered by stealthier airframe?
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    Post  Alex555 Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:33 pm

    Fighters from ”Independence Day 2” Smile
    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 21
    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 21 Medium_e5c003c4835757713e52f2cf2986d0b5
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    Post  Pinto Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:48 pm

    when will India gets to test this plane ? so that the final agreement can be signed
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    Post  sepheronx Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:10 pm

    A new helmet for pilots PAK FA
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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 21 Empty PM Modi’s Russia visit: New, cheaper deal on Sukhoi fighter planes

    Post  Pinto Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:57 am

    Russia has made a new offer on the delivery of Sukhoi T-50 (PAK FA) fighter jets to India under the joint fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) initiative.

    Under the new offer, India will have to pay $3.7 billion, instead of $6 billion, for the technological know-how and three prototypes of PAK FA fighters. The proposal awaits a decision from Prime Minister Narendra Modi, when he meets Russian President Vladimir Putin for the annual India-Russia summit this week.

    India and Russia had signed an inter-governmental agreement to co-develop and co-produce the FGFA in 2007, which was followed by the $295 million preliminary design contract in December 2010. Modelled on the successful Brahmos missile project, the project involves Russia’s Sukhoi Design Bureau and the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The overall FGFA project cost for making 127 single-seat fighters in India has been estimated to be around $30 billion.

    The final design contract, under which both sides were to contribute an initial $6 billion each for prototype development and production, has not been signed between India and Russia so far. Meanwhile, Russia has gone ahead with the development of PAK FA and claims that it will enter service with the Russian Air Force in 2016, and enter serial production in 2017.

    “Now that they already have the fighter, the Russians have made a revised offer to us. For $3.7 billion, they will give us all the technological know-how of making the fighter. We will also get three prototypes from them in that amount,” a senior defence ministry official said.

    But the Indian Air Force (IAF) remains opposed to the idea. A senior IAF official said, “We are not in favour of the FGFA. The PAK FA fighter is too expensive at even this rate, and we are not sure of its capabilities.”
    Sources said the Russian offer is driven by Moscow’s cash crunch and lack of firm orders with its defence industry.

    - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pm-modi-leaves-for-moscow-russia-offers-new-cheaper-deal-on-sukhoi-fighter-jets/#sthash.Oet2qZ0g.dpuf
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    Post  Guest Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:48 am

    Pinto wrote:Russia has made a new offer on the delivery of Sukhoi T-50 (PAK FA) fighter jets to India under the joint fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) initiative.

    Under the new offer, India will have to pay $3.7 billion, instead of $6 billion, for the technological know-how and three prototypes of PAK FA fighters. The proposal awaits a decision from Prime Minister Narendra Modi, when he meets Russian President Vladimir Putin for the annual India-Russia summit this week.

    India and Russia had signed an inter-governmental agreement to co-develop and co-produce the FGFA in 2007, which was followed by the $295 million preliminary design contract in December 2010. Modelled on the successful Brahmos missile project, the project involves Russia’s Sukhoi Design Bureau and the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The overall FGFA project cost for making 127 single-seat fighters in India has been estimated to be around $30 billion.

    The final design contract, under which both sides were to contribute an initial $6 billion each for prototype development and production, has not been signed between India and Russia so far. Meanwhile, Russia has gone ahead with the development of PAK FA and claims that it will enter service with the Russian Air Force in 2016, and enter serial production in 2017.

    “Now that they already have the fighter, the Russians have made a revised offer to us. For $3.7 billion, they will give us all the technological know-how of making the fighter. We will also get three prototypes from them in that amount,” a senior defence ministry official said.

    But the Indian Air Force (IAF) remains opposed to the idea. A senior IAF official said, “We are not in favour of the FGFA. The PAK FA fighter is too expensive at even this rate, and we are not sure of its capabilities.”
    Sources said the Russian offer is driven by Moscow’s cash crunch and lack of firm orders with its defence industry.

    - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pm-modi-leaves-for-moscow-russia-offers-new-cheaper-deal-on-sukhoi-fighter-jets/#sthash.Oet2qZ0g.dpuf

    “We are not in favour of the FGFA. The PAK FA fighter is too expensive at even this rate, and we are not sure of its capabilities.” - yeah, because India can develop and build cheap and capable 5th gen fighter Very Happy Took them 30 years to finish light multirole fighter that weights like Yugo 55, money they poured in it is probably far greater than whole PAK FA project... Srsly.
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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 21 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  Pinto Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:19 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Pinto wrote:

    - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pm-modi-leaves-for-moscow-russia-offers-new-cheaper-deal-on-sukhoi-fighter-jets/#sthash.Oet2qZ0g.dpuf

    “We are not in favour of the FGFA. The PAK FA fighter is too expensive at even this rate, and we are not sure of its capabilities.” -

    yeah, because India can develop and build cheap and capable 5th gen fighter Very Happy Took them 30 years to finish light multirole fighter that weights like Yugo 55, money they poured in it is probably far greater than whole PAK FA project... Srsly.

    lol well said but the point now is that because of diffrence in retirements for operational use has delayed many India-Russia projects

    1. medium role combat aircraft (urgently needted to replace ageing AN 32)- IAF wants change in engine and this deal is hanging fire since 2007 and recently russia has allocated money for this project

    2. FGFA the most latest exampl, India has not been even allowed to test flight leave aside the Indian reqire,ents even the Russian version too. that too when India has offfered to buy 3-4 sq of T50

    3. SU 30 MKI spares issue, both sukhoi n HAL blame each other

    All these issues needs to sorted out on war footing otherwise other nations will take benefit of the delays in these deals
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    Post  Guest Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:03 pm

    Pinto wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Pinto wrote:

    - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pm-modi-leaves-for-moscow-russia-offers-new-cheaper-deal-on-sukhoi-fighter-jets/#sthash.Oet2qZ0g.dpuf

    “We are not in favour of the FGFA. The PAK FA fighter is too expensive at even this rate, and we are not sure of its capabilities.” -

    yeah, because India can develop and build cheap and capable 5th gen fighter Very Happy Took them 30 years to finish light multirole fighter that weights like Yugo 55, money they poured in it is probably far greater than whole PAK FA project... Srsly.

    lol well said but the point now is that because of diffrence in retirements for operational use has delayed many India-Russia projects

    1. medium role combat aircraft (urgently needted to replace ageing AN 32)- IAF wants change in engine and this deal is hanging fire since 2007 and recently russia has allocated money for this project

    2. FGFA the most latest exampl, India has not been even allowed to test flight leave aside the Indian reqire,ents even the Russian version too. that too when India has offfered to buy 3-4 sq of T50

    3. SU 30 MKI spares issue, both sukhoi n HAL blame each other

    All these issues needs to sorted out on war footing otherwise other nations will take benefit of the delays in these deals

    You mean transport to replace AN32, not combat Smile Ukrspetsexport modernised them but i dont think they can serve for much longer, replacement is needed in next decade, decade and a half at the most.

    Thing with PAK-FA is that Indians contributed quite little to be honest, even tho you can see in Indian media how India spared huge amounts of funds, its not really true, India is spending money on subsystems for future FGFA which has nothing to do with PAK FA itself, so its somewhat of a trick served by Indian gov or military officials i am not really sure. Also i am not sure about goals behind that trick, what are Indians trying to get by that.

    Well when its about spares, lets be honest, India has one of the worst safety and maintenance records in the history of aviation. I remember reading how certain workers were caught stealing SU30MKI parts from HAL and selling it to private third party company.
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    Post  Pinto Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:14 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Pinto wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Pinto wrote:

    - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pm-modi-leaves-for-moscow-russia-offers-new-cheaper-deal-on-sukhoi-fighter-jets/#sthash.Oet2qZ0g.dpuf

    “We are not in favour of the FGFA. The PAK FA fighter is too expensive at even this rate, and we are not sure of its capabilities.” -

    yeah, because India can develop and build cheap and capable 5th gen fighter Very Happy Took them 30 years to finish light multirole fighter that weights like Yugo 55, money they poured in it is probably far greater than whole PAK FA project... Srsly.

    lol well said but the point now is that because of diffrence in retirements for operational use has delayed many India-Russia projects

    1. medium role combat aircraft (urgently needted to replace ageing AN 32)- IAF wants change in engine and this deal is hanging fire since 2007 and recently russia has allocated money for this project

    2. FGFA the most latest exampl, India has not been even allowed to test flight leave aside the Indian reqire,ents even the Russian version too. that too when India has offfered to buy 3-4 sq of T50

    3. SU 30 MKI spares issue, both sukhoi n HAL blame each other

    All these issues needs to sorted out on war footing otherwise other nations will take benefit of the delays in these deals

    You mean transport to replace AN32, not combat Smile Ukrspetsexport modernised them but i dont think they can serve for much longer, replacement is needed in next decade, decade and a half at the most.

    Thing with PAK-FA is that Indians contributed quite little to be honest, even tho you can see in Indian media how India spared huge amounts of funds, its not really true, India is spending money on subsystems for future FGFA which has nothing to do with PAK FA itself, so its somewhat of a trick served by Indian gov or military officials i am not really sure. Also i am not sure about goals behind that trick, what are Indians trying to get by that.

    Well when its about spares, lets be honest, India has one of the worst safety and maintenance records in the history of aviation. I remember reading how certain workers were caught stealing SU30MKI parts from HAL and selling it to private third party company.

    well bro this is where the difference lies, and needs to be sorted out

    MRTA is desperately required by India and present Russian offer IAF rejects because they want newer version to last for 30-35 and not a gap fill arrangement for 10 years or so. This project is lingering since 2007

    it was clear from the beginning in pak-FA deal that indian version is going to be different as per IAF requirements, India gave 300 m $ for design no one in indian media is claiming we spent huge amount but still Russia has not even allowed to test fly even Russia version which because of shortage of warplanes India has offered to buy ready made in Russia, some 3-4 sq and later versions can be tailor made as per Indian needs n specifications

    bro since its inductions in 2001 the operational availability of su 30mki is only 50% now this is not alone because of the one off theft, accidents rates of IAF are normal similar to any modern world air force if we take out MIG27/MIG21. there retirement has been delayed because of delay in MRCA tnder process of rafales. India should have gone for MIG 35 or su35 but china too laying hands on them and later supplying copied versions as J 31 to pakistan has ruled them out for IAF

    All these differences i feel can be sorted out with a push to make in india process and Russia can be the biggest gainer of this policy in future to come because western countries will never share with India the technology which Russia has been ding for past many decades
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:51 pm

    Pinto wrote:...............................

    MRTA is desperately required by India and present Russian offer IAF rejects because they want newer version to last for 30-35 and not a gap fill arrangement for 10 years or so. This project is lingering since 2007

    ............................

    MRTA has been progressing nicely lately especially since Ukraine went tits-up. PD-14 engines are also well on track.

    Don't know enough about rest of the stuff that is being discussed so I'll be quiet on it.





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    Post  Pinto Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:42 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Pinto wrote:...............................

    MRTA is desperately required by India and present Russian offer IAF rejects because they want newer version to last for 30-35 and not a gap fill arrangement for 10 years or so. This project is lingering since 2007

    ............................

    MRTA has been progressing nicely lately especially since Ukraine went tits-up. PD-14 engines are also well on track.

    Don't know enough about rest of the stuff that is being discussed so I'll be quiet on it.

    No smooth going for this project stuck since 2007 there are delays because of engine which UAC offered is not to the specifications of IAF, hence more delays expected




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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:22 pm

    Pinto wrote:................................

    No smooth going for this project stuck since 2007 there are delays because of engine which UAC offered is not to the specifications of IAF, hence more delays expected


    Off Topic

    2007 was long ago, I was referring to last couple of years. Why are engines problematic? If they can operate in Russian Arctic, India should be no problem.
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    Post  Guest Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:37 am

    The Indians probably want engines that they can't screw up during maintenance given the notorious IAF maintenance record.

    Berkut, I had a question that I was hoping you could answer and I have a lot of trouble locating elsewhere (maybe I wasn't looking hard enough but I didn't have a lot of free time). What is the purpose of R2 on T-50-2 and will it be on the production variant?

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