PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

triphosgene wrote:Most publicly known RAM coating are based on mixed metal oxides as the absorbers. Their iron content and/or particle size influence the color that can go from neutral dark grey to quite reddish grey.
The materals often lack mechanical resistance as their functionality favours very high absorber concentration and subsequently low binder content.

PapaDragon wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Zivo wrote:

triphosgene wrote:Most publicly known RAM coating are based on mixed metal oxides as the absorbers. Their iron content and/or particle size influence the color that can go from neutral dark grey to quite reddish grey.
The materals often lack mechanical resistance as their functionality favours very high absorber concentration and subsequently low binder content.

Here's T-50-7 from a while back.

Great find!!!

Engines totally covered, that should make some morons finally STFU.

Although I do hope Sukhoi gets new assembly plant built. I know it gets the job done but it looks kinda depressing....

PapaDragon wrote:

Although I do hope Sukhoi gets new assembly plant built. I know it gets the job done but it looks kinda depressing....

PapaDragon wrote:Although I do hope Sukhoi gets new assembly plant built. I know it gets the job done but it looks kinda depressing....

Berkut wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:Although I do hope Sukhoi gets new assembly plant built. I know it gets the job done but it looks kinda depressing....

Uh. You people think that is the "assembly plant". Uhhh. How to break this down - it isn't. It is a static frame in Moscow, about 9000km away from where T-50's are assembled...

MOSCOW, 2 Mar — RIA Novosti. The main efforts of the military-industrial complex associated with the creation of a fifth generation fighter T-50 (Promising aviation complex tactical aircraft, PAK FA), now focused on making the new standard engine for the fighter, said Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on Wednesday in the meeting on development of military aviation.
Multipurpose fifth-generation fighter T-50 in Zhukovsky. Archive photo.

"Prospective airborne complex of frontline aviation T-50, in fact the plane flying. Now the work of designers above the plane of the second stage: we are waiting for the engine" — said Rogozin. Earlier it was reported that already conducted flight tests of the order of 10 fighters PAK FA flying on the engines of the previous generation.

MOSCOW, 2 Mar — RIA Novosti. RTOS *  for the fifth-generation fighter T-50 (Promising aviation complex tactical aircraft, PAK FA), which can also be installed on the su-35S and unmanned aerial vehicles produced in Russia.

Fiscal Times: F-35 the US is mired in issues, the T-50 of Russia goes forward
The development was presented Wednesday at the Joint design Bureau Sukhoi behalf of the delegation Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin. The enterprise also visited the chief of the Russian aerospace defence forces Colonel-General Viktor Bondarev and the General Director of "Sukhoi" Igor Ozar.
According to Ozar, the new RTOS  will be implemented on the PAK FA in 2016 and 2017 on the drones.
"We hope that it will be implemented on other aircraft," — said the representative of the enterprise delegation.
He also presented Rogozin new operating system designed specifically for domestic aircraft.

Vann7 wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

The Pak-fa plane will be the very best plane in the world.. i have no doubts about it..
but Russia will lose many sales . IF they continue sending a bad image about poor quality controls  . if they do not know how to advertise their planes or how to present them. .and continues not caring about the quality state of their defense industry. or doing things just because it works.. but not caring  about the presentation. ie. How it looks.. do it look modern? or looks like a plane done in a soviet garage? or looks unfinished? Not stealthy enough?  Looks and propaganda is also important in sales but also in deterrence too. How you present your technology and the state of your facilities can be the difference of making a big sale or not. After all the people who take the final decisions of whether they will buy a combat plane or not.. is not the military.. but the Leaders of countries , the politicians that are not military experts and could be mislead to buy  a plane only because of its good presentation and not because its actual capabilities.  

Again Pak-fa is a superior plane than F-22.. but Russia will need to pay attention at how the present their technology and the quality of their facilities if they want to really dominate the market of next generation planes.

I'm Italian, (where the presentation is important), you're right fully. Bravo.

Is it true that the T-50, which can reach Mach 4 in seconds, will also carry anti-ship bombs capable of hitting maritime targets over 150 miles away and will have storage space in its fuselage so that the aircraft can fly sorties without appearing armed ?

GarryB wrote:

Come on Max... only an SA-19 Grison missile can get to that speed in that time... it would take minutes to get to supersonic and it wont go much past mach 2 at top speed I suspect. With its new engines it might get to mach 2.3 or 2.4, but it would take time and a lot of fuel to do so.

the internal weapon bays would be able to carry 150 mile range models of the Kh-31 and with the weapon bays closed you would not be able to tell from the outside if it was armed or not.

GarryB wrote:
You say that Russia will never be accepted by the west until it is a carbon copy of the west... I say the west will never accept Russia unless it becomes a subservient resource to feed the western machine, and that Russias best chance at a reasonable future is without the west telling her right from wrong, and judging her by western standards... standards the west never lives up to herself.

I see the jokes all the time Garry about Russian quality of their military.

that is not the way you can send a message for Russia ,that is a capable nation.
If you have runways with holes , grass not cut , and facilities rusty and dirty , what kind of message you are sending?

Again.. this is not about REAL capabilities of the hardware.
But is all about Sales.. Russia will lose a lot of sales if they do not pay attention to
how they advertise their military hardware. and the quality controls they project.

but notices Russian planes crash every week.. and the appearance and state of their facilities and quality controls on their industry looks very bad. then which plane you think they will buy in the end?

There is nothing more shameful for a politicians ,that the military hardware ,the millions he spend buying a tank or plane ,that they break withing a month. it could cost his position or major storm in the media by the opposition , if he waster hundreds of millions in things that do not work or have poor quality and breaks.

F-16s sells like hotcakes , and Saab Gripens steal the show of Su-35 sales..
and that should not be that way.. and the only reason i see it happens is because
American and Europeans do have a superior quality controls ,that Russia. yes the F-22
and F-35 have technology problems ,but those are design issues .not quality control problem.

Russia is losing sales in miltary hardware for showing not a lot of care about the quality of its facilities or its military. and the record of Russia in airplane crashes is really bad. Worse than any other nation in the world. Americans have close to 10x times more combat planes than Russia. and do more flights than Russia in peace times ,and do not have as many accident as them. I live in the west and is rare to see news of an F-16 crashing or F-15 operated by americans in a non war zone. but Russia lose a mig or sukhjoi and all its pilots killed almost every month.. so quality controls of Russia are really bad. And by looking how much attention they give to its facilities is not surprising.

again im speaking about Marketing and sales and quality controls and presentation .that is modern facilities. not about military capabilities. If Russia had no plans to sell their sukhoi or migs ,then none of this matter. but they do..

the soviet union thinking needs to end ,of if its works then is good enough. instead of the capitalism thinking that things needs to be perfect not only in functionality ,but also in quality.

Russia will have not a chance to sell sukhois or migs in the west ,if they do things in the soviet

other than very leftist nations that have no choice.

The performance of Russia military sales in latin america have been abysmal low ,and it is mostly because of the poor state of Russian defense industry. quality controls and their delays on delivering things fast and on time. this is called in the west Bad service and poor quality controls. Hopefully Russia will fix that.

According to the chief designer - Director engine-OKB. A.Lyulki (a branch of the Ufa Engine Plant) Eugene Marchukova, the first flight of the T-50 (Sukhoi PAK FA) with the "engine of the second stage" will be held in late 2017 or early 2018, with machine T-50 It will be used as a flying laboratory.

According E.Marchukova prototype "of the second stage engine" for the T-50 is in production and is being tested on the stand of the inner loop of this promising turbofans. Ground test demonstrator engine will begin this summer. According to its characteristics "article 30" will exceed the set is now on the T-50 engine "product 117" (AL-41F1) by 15-20%. Features of the power plant increased due to a sharp improvement in the operating cycle parameters efficiency units, new construction materials is significantly reduced specific fuel consumption (not only in cruising mode but also in the afterburner mode), and others.

According to the developers, the number of components in the high-pressure compressor (HPC) "product 30" reduced by almost half compared to the previous stage of the compressor motor (AL-41F1), while providing a significant increase in work at one stage. The cost of manufacturing such a compressor will not exceed the production of the fourth generation of HPC cost of the engine (the AL-41F1) subject to the application of new materials and technologies. The new engine for T-50 (PAK FA) composites are used, which are constructed not only in a polymer matrix to the cold side, as well as details of the compositions formed from high temperature.

KB-integrator for engine development "article 30" is a branch of PJSC "Ufa Engine Industrial Association" (UMPO) - OKB. A.Lyulki. In co-operation to create a "product 30" also involved the Moscow JSC "NTC Gas Turbine" Salute "and JSC" NPP "Motor" (Ufa). Also involved in the work of experts Rybinsk NPO "Saturn", included in the PJSC "United Engine Building Corporation". The lead manufacturer serial "engines of the second stage of the" T-50 defined UMPO.

OminousSpudd wrote:Vann, you're assuming Western and Western aligned nations have independent MICs... they don't, to be quite frank.

Werewolf wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:Vann, you're assuming Western and Western aligned nations have independent MICs... they don't, to be quite frank.

+1 Germany's MIC is kept splitted aswell French to assure dependends on each other and keep NATO dogs on a leash.

IBM HAS CREATED A NEW ELECTRONIC SYSTEM FOR FIGHTER OF THE 5TH GENERATION

August 27, 2014
Federal research and production center of JSC "NPP "Flight" (part of "United instrument-making Corporation" rostec) has developed a new communications system (CCS) C-111 and integrated antenna-feeder system for the 5th generation fighter T-50.

The new systems significantly improve the quality of aviation links, drastically reduce the radar signature of the aircraft and have the versatility – can be used also on aircraft of various types, including helicopters KA-52 "alligator".

"C-111 is fundamentally different from all previous developments in their technical characteristics, - said General Director of "United instrument manufacturing Corporation" Alexander Yakunin, and enables aircraft to rapidly obtain information during all phases of flight and in all combat actions. For the implementation of these characteristics are used in the batch exchange of data in digital form, broadband radio channels, new methods of dealing with obstacles in order to increase the range and quality of communication".

According to the developers, s-111 is in no way inferior to modern foreign counterparts, and in some parameters exceeds them. In this complex for the first time solved the problem of transmitting large volumes of information between aircraft within the group in real time (voice, video, data and SART security cameras) through the use of the SMV range of radio channels, which transmit information at speeds of up to 34.3 Mbit/s.

The communications system has a fully digital open architecture. The reprogrammable platform enables storage and recording of various algorithms. The software allows to realize the functions previously performed only at the hardware level using separate products.

The principle of modularity of the s-111 system allows us to increase the number of channels and volume of performed functions, extending the list of implemented modes and allows to use the communication system on any aircraft, including helicopters (Mi-28NM, Ka-50, Ka-52, Ka-62, and PSV), the aircraft of the military transport aircraft (Il-76, Il-112, An-124, and PAK VTA), fighter and tactical aircraft (T-50, MiG-31, su-34), long-range aviation (Tu-22М3М, Tu-160M, PAK DA), and drones of various classes.

"The same principles already developed helicopter modification of the communication system s-403-1 for "Alligator" Ka-52, - said the General Director of NPP "Flight" Alexander komyakov, inter - Agency testing of the s-403-1 will be held before the end of 2014. Currently the company is preparing for mass production of these complexes and in the case of a contract ready to put Arseniev aircraft company "Progress" 158 communications systems through 2020. The ending of the test system C-111 fighter T-50 is scheduled for 2015, and then begin serial production at the facilities of our company".

The specialists of NPP "Flight" was also created for the fighter T-50 and Ka-52 integrated antenna systems, which allow several times to reduce the radar signature of the aircraft by reducing the number of antennas and reduce the total effective surface scattering.

"Now all subsystems in the aircraft equipment have their own antennas. The number of antennas on one aircraft could reach several tens. This greatly increases the radio signature as well as increases the cost and complexity of the object. Antenna-feeder system of new generation developed by the "SPE "Flight", allows you to combine the antenna for transceiving equipment for various purposes (communication, navigation, identification, etc.) to minimize the number of antenna devices. They are embedded in the fuselage shell, which is protected radiotransparent coating that reduces aerodynamic drag and reduces the radar signature of the aircraft," – said Alexey komyakov.