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Log inmack8 wrote:Very nice, thanks Ult! Hopefully we'll see 50-8 soon too.
It is T-50-6-2 next.
Although -8 should be right in its heels. +98
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PAK-FA, T-50: News #3
Berkut- Posts : 190
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Join date : 2015-05-05
It is T-50-6-2 next.
Although -8 should be right in its heels. 
mack8- Posts : 1039
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Ah yes, forgot about the 6-1 and 6-2 numbering.
On another note wonder what's going on with the underside of the right wing, on a portion of it colour seems slightly different (same with the stabilator fairing).
On another note wonder what's going on with the underside of the right wing, on a portion of it colour seems slightly different (same with the stabilator fairing).
Guest- Guest
"Russia’s Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said in an interview with Rossiya 24 TV Channel that flight development testing of the PAK FA fighter is nearly completed. “Several planes are now primarily testing airborne avionics. The tests proving the aircraft’s flight characteristics have practically been completed,” Borisov was quoted as saying."
Source: http://alert5.com/2015/12/08/flight-tests-of-pak-fa-nearly-over/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Source: http://alert5.com/2015/12/08/flight-tests-of-pak-fa-nearly-over/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Berkut- Posts : 190
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Original from; http://vk.com/z25team?w=wall-9823397_12753%2Fall
Not confirmed to be insider info but sounds very likely and in line with what we have seen;
И пожалуй главные в словах: "восстановлен", "в ходе капитально-восстановительного ремонта". По факту от Т-50-5 на Т-50-5Р - БРЭО, конус, фонарь, ВО.
And perhaps the key words : "restored", "in the course of overhaul and refurbishment." On the fact of the T-50-5 in T-50-5R remains avionics, nosecone, canopy, vertical stabilizers.
mack8- Posts : 1039
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Beautiful. Sorry to pester you again Berkut, but what you think about the oddly colored sections on the right underside (wing and stabilator)? Testing samples of the RAM paint, or something more mundane? Thanks.
Berkut- Posts : 190
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Join date : 2015-05-05
I have about as much clue as you do here. 
IE no idea. It has been speculated that it is some kind of RAM testing but nothing confirmed yet. Unless it is confirmed before March, i guess we will know for sure when we see T-50-6-2...
Either way, havent heard a pip about T-50-5R having RAM applied.
IE no idea. It has been speculated that it is some kind of RAM testing but nothing confirmed yet. Unless it is confirmed before March, i guess we will know for sure when we see T-50-6-2... Either way, havent heard a pip about T-50-5R having RAM applied.
mack8- Posts : 1039
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Thanks, as known some time back the insider said the RAM paint is grey, so it does look quite plausible this is what we're seeing (the light green section being just the "undercoat" so to speak)
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mack8 wrote:Thanks, as known some time back the insider said the RAM paint is grey, so it does look quite plausible this is what we're seeing (the light green section being just the "undercoat" so to speak)
Tho he said its very dark gray.
Berkut- Posts : 190
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Т-50-6-2 - сборка после нанесения РПП, подготовка к доработкам стыка центроплана и воздухозаборника, сроки пока те же.
Т-50-8 - завершение окончательной сборки, доработка топливной системы. Передача на ЛИС по новому графику - 20.01.2016, частотные испытания - 27.01.-01.02.2016, нанесение РПП - 25.02.-25.03.2016, первый полёт - 15.04.2016, сдача - 22.04.2016.
Т-50-9 - монтаж ОЧК 10.02.2016, монтаж двигателей - 10.03.2016, передача на ЛИС - 20.03.2016
Т-50-10 - изготовление частей фюзеляжа, стыковка фюзеляжа и передача в цех окончательной сборки - до 15.01.2016, монтаж ОЧК - 01.03.2016, передача на ЛИС - 30.03.2016.
Т-50-11 - изготовление центроплана и головной части фюзеляжа, стыковка фюзеляжа и передача в цех окончательной сборки - до 01.03.2016, монтаж ОЧК - 10.04.2016, передача на ЛИС - 15.05.2016.
T-50-6-2 - assembly after the application of RAM, preparations for completions center-seam and air intake, deadlines are the same.
T-50-8 - completion of final assembly, completion of the fuel system. Transfer to LIS for the new schedule - 20/01/2016, frequency testing - 27.01.-01.02.2016, the application of RAM - 25.02.-25.03.2016, the first flight - 15.04.2016, handover - 22.04.2016.
T-50-9 - Mounting wing sections/panels 10.02.2016, installation of engines - 10.03.2016, handover to LIS - 20.03.2016
T-50-10 - manufacture of parts of the fuselage, the fuselage dock and transfer to the final assembly shop - before 15.01.2016, installation wing sections/panels - 01.03.2016, handover to LIS - 30.03.2016.
T-50-11 - Manufacturing and head of center fuselage, the fuselage dock and transfer to the final assembly shop - before 01.03.2016, installation wing panels - 10.04.2016, handover to LIS - 15/05/2016.
Assuming things go well, 5 frames to be delivered before summer. Chances are, we will be lucky if all that happens before fall and maybe even not this year at all considering all the delays. -8 was supposed to be at LIS aaaages ago. T-50-11 is the last flying frame of prototypes, -12 is static. After that, first serials. -12 and first serials, 2017 for sure imho.
Isos- Posts : 11588
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Are the planning to cover the engines or let them like it's done on the Su-35 ? It could reduce rcs and make it more beautifull for the export. With engines exposed it's uggly.
What are they going to do with the testing modeles when the the Pak Fa will be mass produced ?
What are they going to do with the testing modeles when the the Pak Fa will be mass produced ?
Berkut- Posts : 190
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Isos wrote:Are the planning to cover the engines or let them like it's done on the Su-35 ? It could reduce rcs and make it more beautifull for the export. With engines exposed it's uggly.
Yes.
Isos- Posts : 11588
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Berkut wrote:Isos wrote:Are the planning to cover the engines or let them like it's done on the Su-35 ? It could reduce rcs and make it more beautifull for the export. With engines exposed it's uggly.
Yes.
...
Thanks for the pics.
It's really better than the previous.
Vann7- Posts : 5385
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Is there any images of how the rear engines of Pak-FA will look
if covered by stealthier airframe?
Alex555- Posts : 32
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Fighters from ”Independence Day 2” 
Pinto- Posts : 987
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when will India gets to test this plane ? so that the final agreement can be signed
sepheronx
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A new helmet for pilots PAK FA
Pinto- Posts : 987
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- Post n°527
PM Modi’s Russia visit: New, cheaper deal on Sukhoi fighter planes
Pinto Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:57 am
Russia has made a new offer on the delivery of Sukhoi T-50 (PAK FA) fighter jets to India under the joint fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) initiative.
Under the new offer, India will have to pay $3.7 billion, instead of $6 billion, for the technological know-how and three prototypes of PAK FA fighters. The proposal awaits a decision from Prime Minister Narendra Modi, when he meets Russian President Vladimir Putin for the annual India-Russia summit this week.
India and Russia had signed an inter-governmental agreement to co-develop and co-produce the FGFA in 2007, which was followed by the $295 million preliminary design contract in December 2010. Modelled on the successful Brahmos missile project, the project involves Russia’s Sukhoi Design Bureau and the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The overall FGFA project cost for making 127 single-seat fighters in India has been estimated to be around $30 billion.
The final design contract, under which both sides were to contribute an initial $6 billion each for prototype development and production, has not been signed between India and Russia so far. Meanwhile, Russia has gone ahead with the development of PAK FA and claims that it will enter service with the Russian Air Force in 2016, and enter serial production in 2017.
“Now that they already have the fighter, the Russians have made a revised offer to us. For $3.7 billion, they will give us all the technological know-how of making the fighter. We will also get three prototypes from them in that amount,” a senior defence ministry official said.
But the Indian Air Force (IAF) remains opposed to the idea. A senior IAF official said, “We are not in favour of the FGFA. The PAK FA fighter is too expensive at even this rate, and we are not sure of its capabilities.”
Sources said the Russian offer is driven by Moscow’s cash crunch and lack of firm orders with its defence industry.
- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pm-modi-leaves-for-moscow-russia-offers-new-cheaper-deal-on-sukhoi-fighter-jets/#sthash.Oet2qZ0g.dpuf
Under the new offer, India will have to pay $3.7 billion, instead of $6 billion, for the technological know-how and three prototypes of PAK FA fighters. The proposal awaits a decision from Prime Minister Narendra Modi, when he meets Russian President Vladimir Putin for the annual India-Russia summit this week.
India and Russia had signed an inter-governmental agreement to co-develop and co-produce the FGFA in 2007, which was followed by the $295 million preliminary design contract in December 2010. Modelled on the successful Brahmos missile project, the project involves Russia’s Sukhoi Design Bureau and the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The overall FGFA project cost for making 127 single-seat fighters in India has been estimated to be around $30 billion.
The final design contract, under which both sides were to contribute an initial $6 billion each for prototype development and production, has not been signed between India and Russia so far. Meanwhile, Russia has gone ahead with the development of PAK FA and claims that it will enter service with the Russian Air Force in 2016, and enter serial production in 2017.
“Now that they already have the fighter, the Russians have made a revised offer to us. For $3.7 billion, they will give us all the technological know-how of making the fighter. We will also get three prototypes from them in that amount,” a senior defence ministry official said.
But the Indian Air Force (IAF) remains opposed to the idea. A senior IAF official said, “We are not in favour of the FGFA. The PAK FA fighter is too expensive at even this rate, and we are not sure of its capabilities.”
Sources said the Russian offer is driven by Moscow’s cash crunch and lack of firm orders with its defence industry.
- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pm-modi-leaves-for-moscow-russia-offers-new-cheaper-deal-on-sukhoi-fighter-jets/#sthash.Oet2qZ0g.dpuf
Guest- Guest
Pinto wrote:Russia has made a new offer on the delivery of Sukhoi T-50 (PAK FA) fighter jets to India under the joint fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) initiative.
Under the new offer, India will have to pay $3.7 billion, instead of $6 billion, for the technological know-how and three prototypes of PAK FA fighters. The proposal awaits a decision from Prime Minister Narendra Modi, when he meets Russian President Vladimir Putin for the annual India-Russia summit this week.
India and Russia had signed an inter-governmental agreement to co-develop and co-produce the FGFA in 2007, which was followed by the $295 million preliminary design contract in December 2010. Modelled on the successful Brahmos missile project, the project involves Russia’s Sukhoi Design Bureau and the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The overall FGFA project cost for making 127 single-seat fighters in India has been estimated to be around $30 billion.
The final design contract, under which both sides were to contribute an initial $6 billion each for prototype development and production, has not been signed between India and Russia so far. Meanwhile, Russia has gone ahead with the development of PAK FA and claims that it will enter service with the Russian Air Force in 2016, and enter serial production in 2017.
“Now that they already have the fighter, the Russians have made a revised offer to us. For $3.7 billion, they will give us all the technological know-how of making the fighter. We will also get three prototypes from them in that amount,” a senior defence ministry official said.
But the Indian Air Force (IAF) remains opposed to the idea. A senior IAF official said, “We are not in favour of the FGFA. The PAK FA fighter is too expensive at even this rate, and we are not sure of its capabilities.”
Sources said the Russian offer is driven by Moscow’s cash crunch and lack of firm orders with its defence industry.
- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pm-modi-leaves-for-moscow-russia-offers-new-cheaper-deal-on-sukhoi-fighter-jets/#sthash.Oet2qZ0g.dpuf
“We are not in favour of the FGFA. The PAK FA fighter is too expensive at even this rate, and we are not sure of its capabilities.” - yeah, because India can develop and build cheap and capable 5th gen fighter
Took them 30 years to finish light multirole fighter that weights like Yugo 55, money they poured in it is probably far greater than whole PAK FA project... Srsly.
Pinto- Posts : 987
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Militarov wrote:Pinto wrote:
- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pm-modi-leaves-for-moscow-russia-offers-new-cheaper-deal-on-sukhoi-fighter-jets/#sthash.Oet2qZ0g.dpuf
“We are not in favour of the FGFA. The PAK FA fighter is too expensive at even this rate, and we are not sure of its capabilities.” -
yeah, because India can develop and build cheap and capable 5th gen fighter
lol well said but the point now is that because of diffrence in retirements for operational use has delayed many India-Russia projects
1. medium role combat aircraft (urgently needted to replace ageing AN 32)- IAF wants change in engine and this deal is hanging fire since 2007 and recently russia has allocated money for this project
2. FGFA the most latest exampl, India has not been even allowed to test flight leave aside the Indian reqire,ents even the Russian version too. that too when India has offfered to buy 3-4 sq of T50
3. SU 30 MKI spares issue, both sukhoi n HAL blame each other
All these issues needs to sorted out on war footing otherwise other nations will take benefit of the delays in these deals
Guest- Guest
Pinto wrote:Militarov wrote:Pinto wrote:
- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pm-modi-leaves-for-moscow-russia-offers-new-cheaper-deal-on-sukhoi-fighter-jets/#sthash.Oet2qZ0g.dpuf
“We are not in favour of the FGFA. The PAK FA fighter is too expensive at even this rate, and we are not sure of its capabilities.” -
yeah, because India can develop and build cheap and capable 5th gen fighter
lol well said but the point now is that because of diffrence in retirements for operational use has delayed many India-Russia projects
1. medium role combat aircraft (urgently needted to replace ageing AN 32)- IAF wants change in engine and this deal is hanging fire since 2007 and recently russia has allocated money for this project
2. FGFA the most latest exampl, India has not been even allowed to test flight leave aside the Indian reqire,ents even the Russian version too. that too when India has offfered to buy 3-4 sq of T50
3. SU 30 MKI spares issue, both sukhoi n HAL blame each other
All these issues needs to sorted out on war footing otherwise other nations will take benefit of the delays in these deals
You mean transport to replace AN32, not combat
Ukrspetsexport modernised them but i dont think they can serve for much longer, replacement is needed in next decade, decade and a half at the most. Thing with PAK-FA is that Indians contributed quite little to be honest, even tho you can see in Indian media how India spared huge amounts of funds, its not really true, India is spending money on subsystems for future FGFA which has nothing to do with PAK FA itself, so its somewhat of a trick served by Indian gov or military officials i am not really sure. Also i am not sure about goals behind that trick, what are Indians trying to get by that.
Well when its about spares, lets be honest, India has one of the worst safety and maintenance records in the history of aviation. I remember reading how certain workers were caught stealing SU30MKI parts from HAL and selling it to private third party company.
Pinto- Posts : 987
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Militarov wrote:Pinto wrote:Militarov wrote:Pinto wrote:
- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pm-modi-leaves-for-moscow-russia-offers-new-cheaper-deal-on-sukhoi-fighter-jets/#sthash.Oet2qZ0g.dpuf
“We are not in favour of the FGFA. The PAK FA fighter is too expensive at even this rate, and we are not sure of its capabilities.” -
yeah, because India can develop and build cheap and capable 5th gen fighter
lol well said but the point now is that because of diffrence in retirements for operational use has delayed many India-Russia projects
1. medium role combat aircraft (urgently needted to replace ageing AN 32)- IAF wants change in engine and this deal is hanging fire since 2007 and recently russia has allocated money for this project
2. FGFA the most latest exampl, India has not been even allowed to test flight leave aside the Indian reqire,ents even the Russian version too. that too when India has offfered to buy 3-4 sq of T50
3. SU 30 MKI spares issue, both sukhoi n HAL blame each other
All these issues needs to sorted out on war footing otherwise other nations will take benefit of the delays in these deals
You mean transport to replace AN32, not combat
Thing with PAK-FA is that Indians contributed quite little to be honest, even tho you can see in Indian media how India spared huge amounts of funds, its not really true, India is spending money on subsystems for future FGFA which has nothing to do with PAK FA itself, so its somewhat of a trick served by Indian gov or military officials i am not really sure. Also i am not sure about goals behind that trick, what are Indians trying to get by that.
Well when its about spares, lets be honest, India has one of the worst safety and maintenance records in the history of aviation. I remember reading how certain workers were caught stealing SU30MKI parts from HAL and selling it to private third party company.
well bro this is where the difference lies, and needs to be sorted out
MRTA is desperately required by India and present Russian offer IAF rejects because they want newer version to last for 30-35 and not a gap fill arrangement for 10 years or so. This project is lingering since 2007
it was clear from the beginning in pak-FA deal that indian version is going to be different as per IAF requirements, India gave 300 m $ for design no one in indian media is claiming we spent huge amount but still Russia has not even allowed to test fly even Russia version which because of shortage of warplanes India has offered to buy ready made in Russia, some 3-4 sq and later versions can be tailor made as per Indian needs n specifications
bro since its inductions in 2001 the operational availability of su 30mki is only 50% now this is not alone because of the one off theft, accidents rates of IAF are normal similar to any modern world air force if we take out MIG27/MIG21. there retirement has been delayed because of delay in MRCA tnder process of rafales. India should have gone for MIG 35 or su35 but china too laying hands on them and later supplying copied versions as J 31 to pakistan has ruled them out for IAF
All these differences i feel can be sorted out with a push to make in india process and Russia can be the biggest gainer of this policy in future to come because western countries will never share with India the technology which Russia has been ding for past many decades
PapaDragon- Posts : 13456
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Pinto wrote:...............................
MRTA is desperately required by India and present Russian offer IAF rejects because they want newer version to last for 30-35 and not a gap fill arrangement for 10 years or so. This project is lingering since 2007
............................
MRTA has been progressing nicely lately especially since Ukraine went tits-up. PD-14 engines are also well on track.
Don't know enough about rest of the stuff that is being discussed so I'll be quiet on it.
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PapaDragon wrote:Pinto wrote:...............................
MRTA is desperately required by India and present Russian offer IAF rejects because they want newer version to last for 30-35 and not a gap fill arrangement for 10 years or so. This project is lingering since 2007
............................
MRTA has been progressing nicely lately especially since Ukraine went tits-up. PD-14 engines are also well on track.
Don't know enough about rest of the stuff that is being discussed so I'll be quiet on it.
No smooth going for this project stuck since 2007 there are delays because of engine which UAC offered is not to the specifications of IAF, hence more delays expected
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Pinto wrote:................................
No smooth going for this project stuck since 2007 there are delays because of engine which UAC offered is not to the specifications of IAF, hence more delays expected
2007 was long ago, I was referring to last couple of years. Why are engines problematic? If they can operate in Russian Arctic, India should be no problem.
Guest- Guest
The Indians probably want engines that they can't screw up during maintenance given the notorious IAF maintenance record.
Berkut, I had a question that I was hoping you could answer and I have a lot of trouble locating elsewhere (maybe I wasn't looking hard enough but I didn't have a lot of free time). What is the purpose of R2 on T-50-2 and will it be on the production variant?
Berkut, I had a question that I was hoping you could answer and I have a lot of trouble locating elsewhere (maybe I wasn't looking hard enough but I didn't have a lot of free time). What is the purpose of R2 on T-50-2 and will it be on the production variant?