PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

So how is the T-50 project doing heard its been suffering problems has of late.

You mean the problems that showed up long ago and constantly being pushed by Western media over and over again?

It's doing fine. Another is supposed to fly soon.

Russia Testing Fifth-Generation Aircraft to Outmatch Any Rival

ANDREI AKULOV | 13.06.2016 | OPINION

The Russian Aerospace Forces will receive first units of the Sukhoi T-50 (PAK FA – «Multifunctional Frontline Fighter») fifth-generation fighter aircraft in 2017, Col. Gen. Viktor Bondarev, the Russian Aerospace Forces Commander-in-Chief, said on June 4.

Russia’s new stealth fighter made an eyebrow-raising surprise appearance on June 5 – soaring over the Crimean Peninsula (Chauda practice range), taking part in the 2016 Aviadarts.

«There are five T-50 fighters being tested at the Chkalov flight testing center to enter service in 2017», Bondarev told reporters.

The aircraft is a stealthy, single-seat, twin-engine, supermaneuverable, multirole fighter with supercruise capability, designed for air superiority and attack roles. It possesses advanced avionics such as active phased array radar and sensor fusion.

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/06/13/russia-testing-fifth-generation-aircraft-outmatch-any-rival.html

Didn't know where to put that, so I post it here (you can move it in a better place):

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2008-04.html

It's a nice analysis of russian technology compared to other.

Isos wrote:Didn't know where to put that, so I post it here (you can move it in a better place):

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2008-04.html

It's a nice analysis of russian technology compared to other.

Yeah, APA has been discredited unfortunately.
Too much fanboyism over there.

Still it's a good starting point if you're after weapons specs, just make sure to check recent developments as it's been over 6-8 years.

KiloGolf wrote:

Yeah, APA has been discredited unfortunately.
Too much fanboyism over there.

What happened ?

KiloGolf wrote:Still it's a good starting point if you're after weapons specs, just make sure to check recent developments as it's been over 6-8 years.

Yeah I didn't see the date. However it seems close to reality what's he is saying.

Was just about to post that.

Interesting.

By this source:
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-new-pak-fa-stealth-fighter-might-have-fatal-flaw-or-16628


The military is not satisfied with the current engine, and they want the new , Izdeliye 30.

Considering that the wiki articles, the current engine gives the same parformance like the F-35 engine.
(thrust/weight)


The only place when this bird needs more thrust is the sky jump,

I think the t-50 considered as attacking plane, designed for the new russian aircraft carriers.

Singular_trafo wrote:The only place when this bird needs more thrust is the sky jump,

I think the t-50 considered as attacking plane, designed for the new russian aircraft carriers.

Or they need invest in developing proper carriers and give them steam catapults.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox0bAM_R8Uk

Video about the T-50 from SouthFront.

Singular_trafo wrote:Interesting.

By this source:
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-new-pak-fa-stealth-fighter-might-have-fatal-flaw-or-16628


The military is not satisfied with the current engine, and they want the new , Izdeliye 30.

Considering that the wiki articles, the current engine gives the same parformance like the F-35 engine.
(thrust/weight)


The only place when this bird needs more thrust is the sky jump,

I think the t-50 considered as attacking plane, designed for the new russian aircraft carriers.

Wow, so these so called "fatal flaws" are the price/necessity and the engines, how cute, this article insinuates that the Russian military still doesn't know whether or not they need the T-50 which is insane, if they didn't need it they wouldn't have made it in the first place, if i had to guess the actual debate is on where and how to use it.

As for the engines, the current ones are fully capable, at worst you can call this issue an inconvenience, but a fatal flaw it is not.

AlfaT8 wrote:

Singular_trafo wrote:Interesting.

By this source:
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-new-pak-fa-stealth-fighter-might-have-fatal-flaw-or-16628


The military is not satisfied with the current engine, and they want the new , Izdeliye 30.

Considering that the wiki articles, the current engine gives the same parformance like the F-35 engine.
(thrust/weight)


The only place when this bird needs more thrust is the sky jump,

I think the t-50 considered as attacking plane, designed for the new russian aircraft carriers.

Wow, so these so called "fatal flaws" are the price/necessity and the engines, how cute, this article insinuates that the Russian military still doesn't know whether or not they need the T-50 which is insane, if they didn't need it they wouldn't have made it in the first place, if i had to guess the actual debate is on where and how to use it.

As for the engines, the current ones are fully capable, at worst you can call this issue an inconvenience, but a fatal flaw it is not.

How reliable of a source for mil issues is Izvestia?
Engine-wise whatever their fuel consumption issues are, they ought to be more pro-active on integrating low observability on the exhaust nozzle, like yesterday.

I have a question: When will the next prototype take off the sky? I've read in an article that said it should've flew off yesterday 20/06/2016 or 06/20/2016. Is this true? That article was from The National Interest already posted here.

Luq man wrote:I have a question: When will the next prototype take off the sky? I've read in an article that said it should've flew off yesterday 20/06/2016 or 06/20/2016. Is this true? That article was from The National Interest already posted here.

National Interest got it from Izvestia which claimed it got it from their own "insider source" when in fact it was from here;

http://forums.airforce.ru/matchast/4618-t-50-a-12/#post135539

So it is literally regurgitation of old information. It was a true planned date almost 2 months ago, and dates shift a lot in short timespan. If we are lucky, it will take off this summer.

Berkut wrote:

Luq man wrote:I have a question: When will the next prototype take off the sky? I've read in an article that said it should've flew off yesterday 20/06/2016 or 06/20/2016. Is this true? That article was from The National Interest already posted here.

National Interest got it from Izvestia which claimed it got it from their own "insider source" when in fact it was from here;

http://forums.airforce.ru/matchast/4618-t-50-a-12/#post135539

So it is literally regurgitation of old information. It was a true planned date almost 2 months ago, and dates shift a lot in short timespan. If we are lucky, it will take off this summer.

How badly are other prototypes usually affected by such delays in the past?

I've went throught the su-33 and mig-29k data, and it is pőrety interesting : )


Say, the su33 can take of with sky jump with a 26 tonns of take off weight , the engine has 251 KN thrust.
If the izdeliye 30 will have 2*167 KN = 334 KN thrust , then the maximum take off weight of the t-50 will be 34.6 tonns for sky jump, means it can take off with full fuel load and full military load !

The izdeliye 117 gives the same capabilities like the su35 , and that is quite good for the russian or chinese military.
Where you need new engine is the take off from sky jump.


Actualy, the izdeliye 30 would means an airplane that doesn't need catapult at all.

I am to lazy to go i other pages to see the latest development. So when will we see the type 30 engines? What kind of nozzles will they have, the same as f-35, or the traditional one? Is there any pic or video of weapon bay/ fireing? Are 3 radars instaled in aircraft?

DerWolf wrote:I am to lazy to go i other pages to see the latest development. So when will we see the type 30 engines? What kind of nozzles will they have, the same as f-35, or the traditional one? Is there any pic or video of weapon bay/ fireing? Are 3 radars instaled in aircraft?

If you are too lazy, as you are admitting yourself; why do you expect people to reward your laziness?

If the problems are 'weak' engines that still allow supercruise and per-unit costs cheaper than F-35/F-22 then I think the program is in a pretty great state
No indication of problems like 'won't be able to shoot the gun until 2020', being over-weight, cracks in major structural bits that were supposed to be good for multiple decades, lack of maneuvrability, outdated software/CPU, not being able to perform major tasks required for a supposedly multi-role plane, cooling issues in the bays...

I mean, with a tad of research the guy could have at least come up with some actually worrying stuff like India being unhappy with radar performance & stealth level.

DerWolf wrote:I am to lazy to go i other pages to see the latest development. So when will we see the type 30 engines? What kind of nozzles will they have, the same as f-35, or the traditional one? Is there any pic or video of weapon bay/ fireing? Are 3 radars instaled in aircraft?

everything is perfect with the plane. ignore the negative press. just recently was told the
AESA radars test was a success.

http://en.take-off.ru/news/108-nov2012/974-aesa-for-t-50-trials-are-success

the plane will enter service 2017 ,the initial engines it will use will be temporary modified
for pak-fa until the the development of the real and more powerful ones will be finished. the back nozzles apparently will be also stealthy and Sukhoi engineers now claim Pak-fa will be more stealthy than F-22/ average and most of the times ,the weapons also more powerful . There will be a two seat version for India with some modifications that nobody knows ,and that some parts of the planes will be build in India. Apparently Russia will order 250 planes initially?  not the 12 claimed in the media. and the counter electronics of pak-fa will be the world best according to Sukjoi . Simply will be an F-22 killer, but that also will be multipurpose able to be used for land and sea attacks. Pak-fa will be also able to supercruise without afterburners. and will have infra red sensors and L band scanning developed in house by Russia, to see F-22 where is hiding without using active radars. So everything is moving forward. and only problem
they seem to be facing was the real engine of the plane that will be more powerful ,have been the development a bit slow. and second version of pak-fa will use the final engines in 2018~.

guys i'd like to clear something up about the pak fa , those engines it has currently are not bad , its just that people are not really understanding where is the problem .
currently , they give off 147 kn of thrust each , which is only 9 kn less thrust compared to the f22 , considering the pak fa weighs 18 tons empty , the "empty" thrust to weight ratio is 1.66 , while the f22 weighs 19.8 t , its "empty" t/w ratio is 1.60.
also , those engines proppel the pak fa at 2600 km/h (faster than f22) which is very decent , and give it a range of 3500 km (more than f22)which is really good , plus it has 3d tvc .

so if the pak fa's current engines give it more kinematical performance than its rival , the f22 , where is the problem??
well the problem is that , if you look at the documentary , russia has required engines not to be only good now , but would still be competetive in the 2030's and 2020's , and thats why they are making the new engine , too keep the pak fa's kinematical capability updated throughout the years .

and its funny that the nationnal interest says that its a fatal flaw , how can this be really a flaw?

also , guys i really need to ask you for some help , i am making a pak fa vs f22 video , and i need the range of the pak fa's main radar , some say its 400km , some say its more than 400km because its an upgraded version of the irbis e that already had 400km of range , and that the byelka's 400 km figure was given in 2009 , before it was completed .

please help .

Contract signed in 2017 and deliveries start in 2018

Russian Defense Ministry: serial deliveries fighter T-50 will begin in 2018

"There is a realization of an experimental batch of T-50 aircraft, serial contract for which we are planning to conclude in 2017 with the terms of delivery in 2018", - the Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said

HM1199 wrote:guys i'd like to clear something up about the pak fa , those engines it has currently are not bad , its just that people are not really understanding where is the problem .
currently , they give off 147 kn of thrust each , which is only 9 kn less thrust compared to the f22 , considering the pak fa weighs 18 tons empty , the "empty" thrust to weight ratio is 1.66 , while the f22 weighs 19.8 t , its "empty" t/w ratio is 1.60.
also , those engines proppel the pak fa at 2600 km/h (faster than f22) which is very decent , and give it a range of 3500 km (more than f22)which is really good , plus it has 3d tvc .

so if the pak fa's current engines give it more kinematical performance than its rival , the f22 , where is the problem??
well the problem is that , if you look at the documentary , russia has required engines not to be only good now , but would still be competetive in the 2030's and 2020's , and thats why they are making the new engine , too keep the pak fa's kinematical capability updated throughout the years .

and its funny that the nationnal interest says that its a fatal flaw , how can this be really a flaw?

also , guys i really need to ask you for some help , i am making a pak fa vs f22 video , and i need the range of the pak fa's main radar , some say its 400km , some say its more than 400km because its an upgraded version of the irbis e that already had 400km of range , and that the byelka's 400 km figure was given in 2009 , before it was completed .

please help .

It all depends on how many T/R modules it has and of which variant. Old tests were with 10W - 15W GaAS modukes while Russia has also been working on GaN modules as well that could be rated between 15W - 30W. Rostec has also been working on reducing size and heat of the T/R modules so they could possibly fit more than the proposed 1500 modules. Power supplied from the PSU is said to be the same as the Irbis E takes from the Su-35S which is 20Kw. It is also said that N036 is a AESA variant of Irbis E (N035) so that is where the speculated performance comes from.

But we have not heard much about the N036 for some time. Just what Kret/Rostec says.

I am pretty sure the max speed of 2600 km/h has been ruled out a long time ago already. And if I am not mistaken the empty weight of the T-50 has never been revealed.