The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

RIA Novosti wrote:MOSCOW, May 8 - RIA Novosti. The city Krasnoarmeysk Donetsk region police detained Ukrainian soldiers transporting 19 TNT blocks, according to the website of Research Affairs of Ukraine in Donetsk region.

According to the press service of the Ministry, the attention of law enforcement officials caught a car without license plates, which was near the four men in camouflage with guns. After checking the documents, it became known that young people - Ukrainian soldiers. In the back of the machine is a bucket of substance "looks like TNT blocks."

Currently, the military detained and material sent for examination. On this fact openly criminal proceedings.

@FarEasterner wrote:Kiev regime honors Nazi collaborators today in Rada

whir wrote:Why no one is posting?

flamming_python wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:

Neutrality wrote:It's going to be a colossal clusterfuck for alot of the Westerners on Ukrainian territory if partisan activity becomes higher. I wonder what will happen if a few of these American paratroopers will be publically lynched. Will the USA declare war on Ukraine?

I honestly don't think any partisan will be heading that deep into fascist held territory to deliver the hurt to the Banderovites and their Western trainers. There is a good reason why they are training in Lvov and not Kharkov.

They've been training in Ukrainian controlled Donbass just recently.

I really hope that the partisans will be smart enough to not touch the foreigners or local citizenry. Doing so only hurts their cause. I personally would like to see them hit more government and infrastructure targets as well an increase in hits on the military and the volunteer battalions. While Novorossiyan forces are bound by the ceasefire, the brave partisans could cripple the failed state of Ukraine even further and strike where the DNR/LNR cannot.

I don't think the rebels should waste their time making suicidal attacks deep into Ukrainian-controlled territory just to hit at the foreign trainers; however the foreign advisors are as legitimate a target as any; considering that the rebels are at war with the Ukraine

Flagship Victory wrote:

Erk wrote:Crimea joining the Russian Federation made Donbass want to do that too. However the demographics were wrong, Crimea was a peninsula almost an isolated island where most people spoke Russian, Donbass has a must lower percentage of Russian, and the territorial boundaries are not clear cut like Crimea. That said, the citizens of Donbass have been proven correct in fearing the rise of fascism in Kiev, and the death toll it brings with it. I don't think many people there would like to go back to join Kiev any longer.

I beg to differ. Donbas can be said as being more pro Russia than Crimea. 90% of Donbas voted for Party of Regions. Only 70 something % of Crimea voted for Party of Regions. The borders are clear cut. They are oblast borders.

Ivan the Colorado wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

Erk wrote:Crimea joining the Russian Federation made Donbass want to do that too. However the demographics were wrong, Crimea was a peninsula almost an isolated island where most people spoke Russian, Donbass has a must lower percentage of Russian, and the territorial boundaries are not clear cut like Crimea. That said, the citizens of Donbass have been proven correct in fearing the rise of fascism in Kiev, and the death toll it brings with it. I don't think many people there would like to go back to join Kiev any longer.

I beg to differ. Donbas can be said as being more pro Russia than Crimea. 90% of Donbas voted for Party of Regions. Only 70 something % of Crimea voted for Party of Regions. The borders are clear cut. They are oblast borders.

That is not not necessarily true either, compare the the referendum results of Crimea vs. the referendum results of the DNR/LNR. Another important thing to note is that most of the PoR comes from the Eastern Regions and they had stronghold there. How would you explain oblasts that voted for the PoR but have not been able to stand up to Kiev (i.e. Kharkov) as well?

Erk wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

Erk wrote:Crimea joining the Russian Federation made Donbass want to do that too. However the demographics were wrong, Crimea was a peninsula almost an isolated island where most people spoke Russian, Donbass has a must lower percentage of Russian, and the territorial boundaries are not clear cut like Crimea. That said, the citizens of Donbass have been proven correct in fearing the rise of fascism in Kiev, and the death toll it brings with it. I don't think many people there would like to go back to join Kiev any longer.

I beg to differ. Donbas can be said as being more pro Russia than Crimea. 90% of Donbas voted for Party of Regions. Only 70 something % of Crimea voted for Party of Regions. The borders are clear cut. They are oblast borders.

That is not not necessarily true either, compare the the referendum results of Crimea vs. the referendum results of the DNR/LNR. Another important thing to note is that most of the PoR comes from the Eastern Regions and they had stronghold there. How would you explain oblasts that voted for the PoR but have not been able to stand up to Kiev (i.e. Kharkov) as well?

Voting for PoR doesn't mean you are Russian, it just means you didn't like the other candidates as much that's all.

Here is a map of Russian language in Ukraine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine#/media/File:UkraineNativeLanguagesCensus2001detailed-en.png

It clearly demonstrates why Donbass is not the same as Crimea and a lot to do with why Putin asked them not to go ahead with the referendum a year ago.

kvs wrote:

Erk wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

Erk wrote:Crimea joining the Russian Federation made Donbass want to do that too. However the demographics were wrong, Crimea was a peninsula almost an isolated island where most people spoke Russian, Donbass has a must lower percentage of Russian, and the territorial boundaries are not clear cut like Crimea. That said, the citizens of Donbass have been proven correct in fearing the rise of fascism in Kiev, and the death toll it brings with it. I don't think many people there would like to go back to join Kiev any longer.

I beg to differ. Donbas can be said as being more pro Russia than Crimea. 90% of Donbas voted for Party of Regions. Only 70 something % of Crimea voted for Party of Regions. The borders are clear cut. They are oblast borders.

That is not not necessarily true either, compare the the referendum results of Crimea vs. the referendum results of the DNR/LNR. Another important thing to note is that most of the PoR comes from the Eastern Regions and they had stronghold there. How would you explain oblasts that voted for the PoR but have not been able to stand up to Kiev (i.e. Kharkov) as well?

Voting for PoR doesn't mean you are Russian, it just means you didn't like the other candidates as much that's all.

Here is a map of Russian language in Ukraine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine#/media/File:UkraineNativeLanguagesCensus2001detailed-en.png

It clearly demonstrates why Donbass is not the same as Crimea and a lot to do with why Putin asked them not to go ahead with the referendum a year ago.

That map is total garbage.  This is why quoting Wikipedia is one of the forum rule violations.  In many cases it is politically compromised
BS.   You can see even so-called Ukr nationalists talking Russian most of the time.   And there was never any policy of forced Russification
even the Bandera and Hitler loyalists who ran off to Canada, the USA and Australia, and Latin America would like you to believe there
was.

Here is a more realistic map and the source is not some Russia stronk oppressor of the Ukrs:

whir wrote:Why no one is posting?

Erk wrote:

kvs wrote:

Erk wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

Erk wrote:Crimea joining the Russian Federation made Donbass want to do that too. However the demographics were wrong, Crimea was a peninsula almost an isolated island where most people spoke Russian, Donbass has a must lower percentage of Russian, and the territorial boundaries are not clear cut like Crimea. That said, the citizens of Donbass have been proven correct in fearing the rise of fascism in Kiev, and the death toll it brings with it. I don't think many people there would like to go back to join Kiev any longer.

I beg to differ. Donbas can be said as being more pro Russia than Crimea. 90% of Donbas voted for Party of Regions. Only 70 something % of Crimea voted for Party of Regions. The borders are clear cut. They are oblast borders.

That is not not necessarily true either, compare the the referendum results of Crimea vs. the referendum results of the DNR/LNR. Another important thing to note is that most of the PoR comes from the Eastern Regions and they had stronghold there. How would you explain oblasts that voted for the PoR but have not been able to stand up to Kiev (i.e. Kharkov) as well?

Voting for PoR doesn't mean you are Russian, it just means you didn't like the other candidates as much that's all.

Here is a map of Russian language in Ukraine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine#/media/File:UkraineNativeLanguagesCensus2001detailed-en.png

It clearly demonstrates why Donbass is not the same as Crimea and a lot to do with why Putin asked them not to go ahead with the referendum a year ago.

That map is total garbage.  This is why quoting Wikipedia is one of the forum rule violations.  In many cases it is politically compromised
BS.   You can see even so-called Ukr nationalists talking Russian most of the time.   And there was never any policy of forced Russification
even the Bandera and Hitler loyalists who ran off to Canada, the USA and Australia, and Latin America would like you to believe there
was.

Here is a more realistic map and the source is not some Russia stronk oppressor of the Ukrs:

The image I linked was from the 2001 census, and available from many sites, in other words what the people actually declared publicly. If you would like to check the data then go right ahead http://2001.ukrcensus.gov.ua/eng/results/general/language/  

http://www.rferl.org/contentinfographics/map-ukraine-percentage-who-identify-as-ethnic-russians-or-say-russian-is-their-first-language-/25323841.html

The image you linked was from a propaganda site http://newcoldwar.org

Flagship Victory wrote:

Erk wrote:

kvs wrote:

Erk wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

Erk wrote:Crimea joining the Russian Federation made Donbass want to do that too. However the demographics were wrong, Crimea was a peninsula almost an isolated island where most people spoke Russian, Donbass has a must lower percentage of Russian, and the territorial boundaries are not clear cut like Crimea. That said, the citizens of Donbass have been proven correct in fearing the rise of fascism in Kiev, and the death toll it brings with it. I don't think many people there would like to go back to join Kiev any longer.

I beg to differ. Donbas can be said as being more pro Russia than Crimea. 90% of Donbas voted for Party of Regions. Only 70 something % of Crimea voted for Party of Regions. The borders are clear cut. They are oblast borders.

That is not not necessarily true either, compare the the referendum results of Crimea vs. the referendum results of the DNR/LNR. Another important thing to note is that most of the PoR comes from the Eastern Regions and they had stronghold there. How would you explain oblasts that voted for the PoR but have not been able to stand up to Kiev (i.e. Kharkov) as well?

Voting for PoR doesn't mean you are Russian, it just means you didn't like the other candidates as much that's all.

Here is a map of Russian language in Ukraine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine#/media/File:UkraineNativeLanguagesCensus2001detailed-en.png

It clearly demonstrates why Donbass is not the same as Crimea and a lot to do with why Putin asked them not to go ahead with the referendum a year ago.

That map is total garbage.  This is why quoting Wikipedia is one of the forum rule violations.  In many cases it is politically compromised
BS.   You can see even so-called Ukr nationalists talking Russian most of the time.   And there was never any policy of forced Russification
even the Bandera and Hitler loyalists who ran off to Canada, the USA and Australia, and Latin America would like you to believe there
was.

Here is a more realistic map and the source is not some Russia stronk oppressor of the Ukrs:

The image I linked was from the 2001 census, and available from many sites, in other words what the people actually declared publicly. If you would like to check the data then go right ahead http://2001.ukrcensus.gov.ua/eng/results/general/language/  

http://www.rferl.org/contentinfographics/map-ukraine-percentage-who-identify-as-ethnic-russians-or-say-russian-is-their-first-language-/25323841.html

The image you linked was from a propaganda site http://newcoldwar.org

This isn't about language. There are many exammples where 1 language is spilit into many states, for example German into Germany, Austria, Leichtenstein, Arabic into a dozen or so states, Serbo-Croatian into Serbia, Bosnia and Herzigovina, Croatia, Montenegro.

Flagship Victory wrote:

This isn't about language. There are many exammples where 1 language is spilit into many states, for example German into Germany, Austria, Leichtenstein, Arabic into a dozen or so states, Serbo-Croatian into Serbia, Bosnia and Herzigovina, Croatia, Montenegro.

kvs wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

This isn't about language. There are many exammples where 1 language is spilit into many states, for example German into Germany, Austria, Leichtenstein, Arabic into a dozen or so states, Serbo-Croatian into Serbia, Bosnia and Herzigovina, Croatia, Montenegro.

This is definitely true for Ukraine.  You have Ukrainian speaking "pro-Russians" and you have ethnic Russians who are "pro-Kiev".
It is a conflict generated by propaganda since before the breakup of the USSR.   It went on steroids after 1991 and the generation
that was born in the 1980s and later is fully indoctrinated to blame all their problems on Russia.   The Holodomor myth is one of the
linchpins of this brainwashing.   Under this umbrella all sorts of revisionism and hate are facilitated.   That "evil Russians" targeted
"innocent Ukrs" who were then justified allying with Hitler to save themselves.   That the millions of ethnic Russians in the Donbas
and elsewhere are just squatters who moved onto Ukr land after the indigenous Ukrs were killed off by the Holodomor holocaust.

This is the sort of vile blood libel and true genocide enabling that has afflicted Ukraine.  

As for some 2001 census.   Why would anyone trust such a thing.   The Kuchma regime was very much like the Orange vermin
that replaced it.  It was softer than the Bandera lovers and their Nazi laundering wanted but it served their ethno-chauvinist
agenda.  The treatment of Crimea by successive Kiev governments should tell you all you need to know.  Minority rights were
denied in the name of preserving Ukrainian-ness.  You can see this sort of nationalism around the world.  Including in Quebec
in Canada.

It is clear that Wikipedia language map is politically expedient ethno-nationalist trash.   The map I posted has the closest
correspondence to reality on the ground.  But people in the west would have no way of knowing the truth.

Bloomberg wrote:Billionaire No More: Ukraine President’s Fortune Fades With War
by Kateryna ChoursinaVolodymyr VerbyanyAlex Sazonov 6:00 AM CEST May 8, 2015

At the November 2013 World Economic Forum in Kiev’s Intercontinental Hotel, billionaire Petro Poroshenko predicted a European Union trade pact would kick-start Ukraine’s economy and enrich his Roshen Confectionery Corp. by dramatically increasing EU-bound chocolate exports.
Eighteen months later, Poroshenko -- now Ukraine’s president -- has seen his wealth head in the other direction.

Since the proposed trade deal collapsed, dragging Ukraine’s economy down with it, his fortune has declined by some 30 percent to about $720 million, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. Roshen’s output, which topped 400,000 tons in 2012, lost 25 percent over the next two years after its products were banned in its most important export market, Russia, and its factory there was seized by the government.

Poroshenko’s business “has been complicated by his official status and decisions that he has had to make as president,” said Yuriy Yakymenko, an analyst at the Razumkov Centre for Economic and Political Studies, a research institute in Kiev.

While campaigning for president last year, Poroshenko promised to sell Roshen, but he hasn’t been able to find a buyer. There’s been scant interest in the company, which the president values at about $3 billion, according to Roshen Chief Executive Officer Vyacheslav Moskalevsky.

“There’s absolutely no way the company will sell for that much at this time,” Moskalevsky, who is a minority shareholder, said at Roshen’s headquarters near Kiev’s riverfront docks. “Nobody can sell anything here now.” Continue reading.

A Red Rover wrote:Donbas Dispatch #11: American pro-Russian

Welcomeplease wrote:Victory Day, Makiivka 09.05.2015

SKASlavon wrote:Lugansk. May 9, 2015 Parade of military equipment

Gorlovka Segodnya wrote:Victory Day Parade, Gorlovka

Erk wrote:

kvs wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

This isn't about language. There are many exammples where 1 language is spilit into many states, for example German into Germany, Austria, Leichtenstein, Arabic into a dozen or so states, Serbo-Croatian into Serbia, Bosnia and Herzigovina, Croatia, Montenegro.

This is definitely true for Ukraine.  You have Ukrainian speaking "pro-Russians" and you have ethnic Russians who are "pro-Kiev".
It is a conflict generated by propaganda since before the breakup of the USSR.   It went on steroids after 1991 and the generation
that was born in the 1980s and later is fully indoctrinated to blame all their problems on Russia.   The Holodomor myth is one of the
linchpins of this brainwashing.   Under this umbrella all sorts of revisionism and hate are facilitated.   That "evil Russians" targeted
"innocent Ukrs" who were then justified allying with Hitler to save themselves.   That the millions of ethnic Russians in the Donbas
and elsewhere are just squatters who moved onto Ukr land after the indigenous Ukrs were killed off by the Holodomor holocaust.

This is the sort of vile blood libel and true genocide enabling that has afflicted Ukraine.  

As for some 2001 census.   Why would anyone trust such a thing.   The Kuchma regime was very much like the Orange vermin
that replaced it.  It was softer than the Bandera lovers and their Nazi laundering wanted but it served their ethno-chauvinist
agenda.  The treatment of Crimea by successive Kiev governments should tell you all you need to know.  Minority rights were
denied in the name of preserving Ukrainian-ness.  You can see this sort of nationalism around the world.  Including in Quebec
in Canada.

It is clear that Wikipedia language map is politically expedient ethno-nationalist trash.   The map I posted has the closest
correspondence to reality on the ground.  But people in the west would have no way of knowing the truth.

I disagree totally, the 2001 census is the best survey to date on language (the next census is not due until 2016), every other survey will only sample a percentage of the population and extrapolate. Stop trying to discredit the census survey just because I chose one of the many images of its resuslts that happened to be on the wikipedia site because it was up the google search rank when I was looking for the chart, I posted another one from another source and you choose to ignore it, therefore I can't help you and we should move along.

Kazzura wrote:Donetsk Victory parade

Ватник из Колорадо wrote:Victory Parade in Donetsk 09/05/2015.

Алексей Кузнецов wrote:Victory Parade in Donetsk, May 9

etaepsilonk wrote:Russians...

etaepsilonk wrote:Russians...

kvs wrote:
Ah shut up.  Here in Canada I see a dope pusher on every freaking corner and they have protection from the cops.

etaepsilonk wrote:Russians...