The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

auslander wrote:"You know, auslander, I have had the thought recently, that Americans in general, are isolated from the rest of the world.

I know there are Americans who are world travelers, but I am guessing that most aren't.

& some (how many I have no idea) Americans are even isolated from cultures different than theirs, in the USA."

The isolation of Americans from world events in general is not a cultural foible per se, it comes from the safety in which they live. Disregarding terror attacks, America has not been attacked on her home ground by an enemy who could do serious damage for 200 years. Here, it is still amazing to speak to local residents who really have no clue as to what is causing that distant rumble of thunder they hear from the north. Yes, most have an inkling of what happened in this AO last year but now that that particular danger has past they have gone back to their daily lives, secure in the strength and security of the Fleet sitting in harbor. Most no longer wear their St. George, they don't go to museums or cultural events, they simply isolate themselves in their own world of work, family and local microcultures where they live.

Ukrainian Pravda via Google Translate wrote:Шокін: Мельничуку загрожує довічне ув'язнення, Клюєву – більше 10 років
Shokin: Melnychuk life imprisonment, Klyuev - 10 years
Tuesday, May 12, 2015, 20:11

MP Sergei Melnychuk , a member dephrupy "will of the people," life imprisonment.

This was announced at a briefing Attorney General Victor Shokin.

However, unaffiliated MP Sergei Klyuyev can award more than 10 years in prison.

According to the Attorney General, the criminal proceedings against Klyuyev concerning fraud and malpractice. [url=]Continue reading.[/url]

Vox Populi Evo wrote:"Svoboda" Reps. threaten the leader of communists in Lvov | Eng Subs


Victoriya Shilova told the truth to face of Bandera's supporter Tatyana Voronina | Eng Subs

Андрій Дзиндзя wrote:Battalion Azov eliminated terrorists

помоги брату wrote:GRU DNR

Lygansk News wrote:Only cyclists, pedestrians and international humanitarian organizations can enter occupied territory of Lugansk Region, all other traffic is banned!
May 13, 2015

The head of Lugansk Region Hennadiy Moskal signed an order that forbids to cross the demarcation line in Lugansk Region starting from May 13 2015. No transport is allowed to pass including cars. The only exception is for cyclists, pedestrians and transport of international humanitarian organizations. Continue reading.

Служба безпеки України wrote:SBU detained more than 150 trucks with contraband in the temporarily occupied territory

RGAzeta via Google Translate wrote:Правительственная партия Финляндии фактически признала ДНР
Finland's governing party actually recognized DNI
Text: Ruslan Melnikov (Donetsk) 12/05/2015, 15:42

The representation of the People's Republic of Donetsk in Finland staffed by volunteers from the ruling party. This was stated in Donetsk at the international forum "Donbass: yesterday, today and tomorrow," the Finnish delegate to a political scientist and sociologist Johan Backman.

- Now there is massive propaganda in Western media, directed against the DNR and LC. We are trying to deal with this propaganda. A year ago, in Finland on a voluntary basis was established DNR office. Moreover, among our volunteers in Helsinki there are representatives of the government party. In this game, for example, it is the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Finland. And the fact that supporters of the ruling party began to work in the interests of the DNR, is indicative of the event. This means that in fact the government party of one state of the European Union recognized the DNR - says Johan Backman. Continue reading.

Action Tube (WAR: UKRAINE-RUSSIA) wrote:Training UAF-USAF

Cowboy's daughter wrote:Yes. We haven't had a war in America since the Civil War, and no other major war except The Revolution and Indian Wars, not like Russia being attacked by Nazi Germany.

Teshub wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:Yes. We haven't had a war in America since the Civil War, and no other major war except The Revolution and Indian Wars, not like Russia being attacked by Nazi Germany.

As a matter of interest, do you count the American War of 1812 as one of the Indian Wars then? I would have thought it counted as a major conflict, at least at the time.

Action Tube (WAR: UKRAINE-RUSSIA) wrote:Training UAF-USAF

Neutrality wrote:

whir wrote:

Action Tube (WAR: UKRAINE-RUSSIA) wrote:Training UAF-USAF

"I have not taken out a tank, no. I have never fought a trench war, no. I have never been under an artillery barage, no". And with that having said I can safely assume that the Ukrainians are being taught jackshit. To me it sounds like these American soldiers romanticize war. They learn them how to identify IEDs? That's cool and all but if you look at the combat footage, you'll see that the war is being fought street by street, man vs man. America has always fought wars with the support of a modern air force and ground armor. That's the nothing the Ukrainians have.

Rodinazombie wrote:
I think you are doing the americans a bit of a disservice, granted no training they can provide will enable the ua forces to win the war, but it will certainly stop them getting themselves killed stupidly. Dont forget how a lot of conscripts were give a couple of weeks training if they were lucky.

Neutrality wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:
I think you are doing the americans a bit of a disservice, granted no training they can provide will enable the ua forces to win the war, but it will certainly stop them getting themselves killed stupidly. Dont forget how a lot of conscripts were give a couple of weeks training if they were lucky.

The best way to stop getting killed stupidly is NOT to go there. I know lots of them don't have any choice but if these people, for one moment, had the balls to unite and tell the president to fuck off. Tell him that they don't want to participate in a war which leads to nothing but civilian casualties and hate. And most of all, that they don't want to go where the people don't want their "liberation". Such an action would not only signal to Poroshenko something's wrong but even the MSM would have a hard time ignoring this event.

Seriously, I am extremely disappointed in the Ukrainian people which leads me to be very cynical towards their stupidity and naivety. It's like a major part of the population have always hated Russia and now have an opportunity to fight against it.

Werewolf wrote:
Over 1 mln ukrainians disaggree with you, they deserted to russia. They do have a choice, getting drafted against your own people by anglo-saxons and jews to fight your own while this bastards are stealing and enslaving the country to IMF that is a true genocide on economical and military level just to weaken russia.

Donbass Media Group wrote:Results shelling Gorlovka 12.05.2015

Ukrainian Pravda via Google Translate wrote:Японія передала українській поліції 348 автомобілів
Japan donated 348 Ukrainian police cars
Wednesday, May 13, 2015, 15:41

The Government of Japan under the Kyoto Protocol gave the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine 348 cars with hybrid engine Toyota Prius.

According to "Radio Liberty" , the ceremony was held transmission cars at the National Academy of Internal Affairs of Ukraine in Kiev.
The ceremony was attended by Japanese Ambassador to Ukraine Shiheki amount and representatives of corporations Sumitomo and Toyota Ukraine. Ukraine was represented by Interior Minister Arsen Avakov.

Avakov said that these cars are provided for the Kiev and Odessa patrol services. Continue reading.

"We appreciate the support of our Western friends. But Europe and the World must remember the sacrifices that Ukrainians made to defend their freedom and European values, " Yatsenyuk told Le Monde.

The Prime Minister also said that everyone must understand that Ukraine is on the verge of a nuclear war with Russia. He added that Ukraine is Europe's "bulletproof vest" and the stronger Ukraine is the stronger Europe would be.

Rodinazombie wrote:
What interested me was how the american soldiers were sticking to the party line of 'ato'ukraine fghting for its sovereignty'' 'russian seps returning to their own sovereign state' etc etc. I wonder what they really believe.

flamming_python wrote:Disappointed in Japan - just what do they think they're doing with this move other than pleasing Washington?

Teshub wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:Yes. We haven't had a war in America since the Civil War, and no other major war except The Revolution and Indian Wars, not like Russia being attacked by Nazi Germany.

As a matter of interest, do you count the American War of 1812 as one of the Indian Wars then? I would have thought it counted as a major conflict, at least at the time.

Let's say it was August. Maybe even it was last year. Some battalion tactical group (BTG) recieves an order to relocate to AO of imaginary conflict zone. Out of 100% of armoured vehicles (that were capitally repaired just some time ago) during the march 60% breaks in the first day (hidraulics, reductors). The main reason were inexperienced drivers (and they were not conscripts but contract soldiers). Vehicles were repaired as fast as possible. So the imaginary combat begins with imaginary enemy. It was chaos - the attached artillery fired at the "red" instead of the "blue force"; the "red" BTG started mistakenly fighting with another neighboring "red" BTG. NCOs didn't know how to read the map properly, they couldn't pass the needed info for the imaginary strikes to their attached fire support teams. Communication was bad. All in all, imaginary enemy was beaten and beaten good - ~700 imaginary killed, wounded and captured "blues" in AO of just one "red" BTG. But almost all of imaginary dead and wounded "reds" - ~20 people - were due to friendly fire wrote:

усть будет месяц август. Может даже прошлого года. Некая БТГ получает приказ совершить марш в район, скажем так, условных боевых действий. Из 100% бронемашин (откапиталенных совсем недавно) в ходе марша выходит из строя в первый же день порядка 60% (гидравлика, редукторы). Основная причина: неопытность механиков-водителей, плохо разбирающихся во вверенной технике. Контрактников, между прочим. Аврально починили. Дошло дело до условных боевых действий с условным противником. Началась неразбериха. То приданные средства усиления по "красным" вместо "синих" ударят, то "красные" с соседней БТГ "красных" условный бой по ошибке ведут, а потом внезапно: "Ба! Свои! Как же так!". Младший командный состав в координатах путается, карту плохо читает, цели для условных ударов средствам усиления указать не может толком. Связь захромала. В итоге условного противника в ходе условных боевых действий все же разгромили. Крепко разгромили: ~700 условных убитых, раненых и пленных "синих" только в полосе наступления одной БТГ "красных". Вот только практически все условные убитые и раненые "красных" - около 20 человек - от огня своих средств усиления wrote: ные" с соседней БТГ "красных" условный бой по ошибке ведут, а потом внезапно: "Ба! Свои! Как же так!". Младший командный состав в координатах путается, карту плохо читает, цели для условных ударов средствам усиления указать не может толком. Связь захромала. В итоге условного противника в ходе условных боевых действий все же разгромили. Крепко разгромили: ~700 условных убитых, раненых и пленных "синих" только в полосе наступления одной БТГ "красных". Вот только практически все условные убитые и раненые "красных" - около 20 человек - от огня своих средств усиления wrote:

BKP wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:
What interested me was how the american soldiers were sticking to the party line of 'ato'ukraine fghting for its sovereignty'' 'russian seps returning to their own sovereign state' etc etc. I wonder what they really believe.

Well, US soldiers are going to be very much indoctrinated. The information they're going to get in the service is restricted and the officially-accepted viewpoint continually reinforced. That's a given.

Now, about Americans in general, for those who haven't figured this out, the vast majority have next to 0 input on their federal government's international posture. Nor, precious little on anything else for that matter. The US is an oligarchy or plutocracy. Pick your preferred term.

For the sake of publicity, there is a false facade of "democracy." Some curmudgeon types like to say "it was never a democracy, it's a republic", but it's not even that, actually. The further up one looks from the local community level, the more pronounced this is.

For those who needed the obvious stated as the result of a study, there was this recently:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10769041/The-US-is-an-oligarchy-study-concludes.html

America's foreign policy, it's wars, etc. are the result of a semi ad-hoc policy decided upon by the 1% of the 1% of 1% who are very wealthy and well-connected.

Paul Craig Roberts, I believe, rightly identified the sectors of the national economy that the few who have actual influence come from: finance, MIC, energy, mineral extraction and corporate agriculture.

If you are not an American counted in this group, your opinion matters for nothing, except as a factor to be carefully managed. And, perception management in the US is multi-faceted and sophisticated. The US has been very innovative in this area in the modern era, although some of the basic concepts are very old.

Most run-of-the-mill Americans are too busy trying to live and get by to see whats going on and see through the propaganda that is simply part of the "air' they've been breathing their entire lives.

I personally believe that the US oligarchy's hostility toward Russia and Putin, specifically, is the perceived danger posed by the alternative example.

In the US, the federal government functions as a sort of mid-level management for the people that effectively own the country. Those in the federal government empowered to implement policy are like employees. Their job is to assist in furthering the interest of private business at home and abroad, but not to direct it. And that means big business, of course, the huge multi-national operators.

In Russia, under Putin, business activity falls under the purview of the state. It is a concern of state policy, but does not supersede its authority.

This, I believe, is the thing that is found upsetting and unacceptable to US oligarchs. It is antithetical to neo-liberal doctrine. They have been working to undermine it, but have not succeeded so far.

whir wrote:

Ukrainian Pravda via Google Translate wrote:Японія передала українській поліції 348 автомобілів
Japan donated 348 Ukrainian police cars
Wednesday, May 13, 2015, 15:41

The Government of Japan under the Kyoto Protocol gave the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine 348 cars with hybrid engine Toyota Prius.

According to "Radio Liberty" , the ceremony was held transmission cars at the National Academy of Internal Affairs of Ukraine in Kiev.
The ceremony was attended by Japanese Ambassador to Ukraine Shiheki amount and representatives of corporations Sumitomo and Toyota Ukraine. Ukraine was represented by Interior Minister Arsen Avakov.

Avakov said that these cars are provided for the Kiev and Odessa patrol services. Continue reading.

Павел Романов wrote:Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine called the militia heroes
People's deputy and a former member of the Party of Regions Sergey Dunayev at a rally on May 9 in Lugansk militia called the LC heroes and added that the Ukrainian government is a puppet of the IMF.