Algeria People's National Armed Forces

George1 wrote:Modernization and repair of Soviet-made armored vehicles in Algeria

An interesting report of Algerian television from the central logistic base of the National People's Army of Algeria in Beni Mereda, where Soviet-made armored vehicles in service with the Algerian army are being overhauled and modernized. Demonstrated tanks T-55, T-72M1, ZSU-23-4 "Shilka", SAM "Kvadrat" ("Cube") and modernized BTR-80 with a launcher "Kornet-E".

https://dambiev.livejournal.com/2204801.html

All still useful systems. I know they already mounted kornet on BTR-60. Sa-6 had had a few upgrades over the years I wonder if they will go down the newest upgrade using AA missiles normally used on aircraft. ZSU 23-4 I wonder if they will go for the full upgrade not just new radar and fire control systems but the addition of manpads I think they should. T-72 and T-55 still have there uses, and doesn't have to be expensive, ERA, or caged armour, and cheap soft kills systems from North Korea would be good enough. Or go full upgrades from Russia on the T-72. Another useful option would be to replace the turret of T-72 with the Belarusian 2T stalker or BMPT. T-55 long ago had a package called BTR-T but it never took off but it could be done. Or even better do what Peru are looking at doing with theirs.

"Uralvagonzavod proposed a solution for modernization of old Russian made T-55s by installing the turret of the BMPT. The land forces of the Peruvian army wanted to purchase a new main battle tank in late 2013. According to Uralvagonzavod, the engine, transmission, and suspension of T-55 tank should not be changed if the upgrade takes place. It is also possible to upgrade the powerpack and suspension to increase the level of mobility."

This would make them more useful and be able to support troops better. But it would cost more, I think even Belarusian 2T stalker option would be useful on both the T-72 and T-55, although I would upgrade the original design instead 30mm gun I would install the 57mm cannon and replace AT-6 with AT-15 or kornet, and SA-18 with verba, and add a AGS-30. Imagine a T-55 armed recce zooming around in 2T stalker mode armed with 57mm cannon, x2 AT-15 or Kornet, x2 verba, AGS-30, and coaxial 7.62mm. pretty potent. Bulat could also be an option instead of the AGS-30. Or u could turn it into a ATGW carrier with a pack of 8 kornet and a 14.5mm gun and u got yourself a deadly little T-55. The options are endless really.

Some poor schmuck in Toyota Hilux is about to have a really bad day

PapaDragon wrote:
Some poor schmuck in Toyota Hilux is about to have a really bad day

I concur

Yak-130 of the Algerian Air Force and its weapons

Wow... that is clever...
The object directly in front of the nose of the aircraft that looks like a barrel bomb with a red cover over its nose, but no TV guided weapons visible suggests it is using the object which is the KAB-500Kr-U training bomb system... essentially it is the nose sensor and guidance system of a KAB series TV guided bomb that is designed to be carried by not released to practise bombing... it allows the aircraft to use the optics of the real weapon to lock targets without having to carry the real weapon around, so you could practise dropping it and then from telemetry from the aircraft at the instance of release it could determine if it would be a hit or a miss with unguided bombs perhaps.... the parameters for a guided weapon are much broader of course.

Essentially it could be using it like a targeting pod for training.

Odd that no guided bombs or missiles are shown.


http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-systems/air-bombs/kab-500kr-u/

JohninMK wrote:Clever and cost effective plan.

kimo dial
@kmldial70
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According  to http://menadefense.net ,#Algeria will upgrade between 200 to 300 T-62 medium tank to #IFVs using #russian #berezhok #turret.
this will increase the #firepower of the #Algerian #infantry #divisions significantly.

It's a pretty good idea and gets rid of a calibre streamlining ammo stocks, it reminds me of the Belarusian 2T stalker although that was more heavily armed and was intended to be used a heavy recce built on a T-72 chassis armed with 7.62mm, 30mm, AT-6, and SA-18.

Algeria operates T-90 and T-72m, although I feel the T-90 will slowly replace the T-72 with the T-72 being kept in reserve as MBT, while the T-55amv which is a heavy upgrade consisting of more modern fire control, gun stabilization, heavier armour etc and is used as a fire support vehicle rather than a MBT, hence why I think they will put T-72 in reserve and keep using the cheaper T-55 as effectively has a different role and they also now using stugna missile a Ukrainian version of bastion.

And now the T-62 being given the same treatment as Algerian BMP-1 with the new turret. They already operate BMPT-72 so this is like a cheaper version using what u already have. I remember Peru was looking at keeping their T-55 but replacing the turret with a BMPT.

Although I think it would have been better to have did a Belarusian 2T stalker configuration with some slight changes, and use a 57mm gun instead of 30mm.

Although they could use some of their older versions of T-72 and do as I mentioned above a 2T stalker configuration with the T-72 having better armour, you could have 7.62mm, 57mm cannon, Kornet x4, twin verbs, and maybe an additional AGS system, and you have a fairly deadly recce/ fire support vehicle, and add this into a mix of BMPT-72 and T-90 vehicles you have a capable armoured force,

It really seems Algeria are doing a mix of new equipment and decent upgrades to older equipment. They seem to like Kornet alot, they have purchased Berezhok turrets for BMP-1 & BMP-2, and now T-62, and have purchased Kornet -D, and have also put Kornet on BTR-80, BTR-60, BRDM-2, and panhard AML-60 which underwent a decent upgrade with Kornet, auto turret with 14.5mm& 7.62, and additional armour. So Kornet Kornet Kornet lol.

Also to mention mounting their MT-12 anti tank guns on trucks and sort of mobile artillery/fire support vehicle with ability to fire bastion, something that be quite useful in Syria.

This will hopefully open up more export orders for Russia, exporting turrets and ATGW systems, and this allows poorer nations to upgrade older vehicles and they their forces better capabilities and Russia benefits from the sales. It's why I like the Russian arms industry, they have solutions for every budget, from upgrades to countries current vehicles, or selling upgraded Soviet systems Russia has in storage, to buying completely new systems.

Can't say I can understand the Algerian MOD's thinking

They're basically downgrading their tanks. If you want firepower support for infantry.. well then use a normal tank, spare T-62s will do fine.

It's not an IFV though, because it can't transport infantry. It's just a down-gunned tank along for the ride with their mechanized infantry in any case. I guess it gets a better AT missile than the AT rounds available to the T-62. But they could have added Kornet launchers without sacrificing the main gun presumably. Or have fitted Kornet launchers to actual IFVs like the BMP-1/2

flamming_python wrote:Can't say I can understand the Algerian MOD's thinking

They're basically downgrading their tanks. If you want firepower support for infantry.. well then use a normal tank, spare T-62s will do fine.

It's not an IFV though, because it can't transport infantry. It's just a down-gunned tank along for the ride with their mechanized infantry in any case. I guess it gets a better AT missile than the AT rounds available to the T-62. But they could have added Kornet launchers without sacrificing the main gun presumably. Or have fitted Kornet launchers to actual IFVs like the BMP-1/2

Could option for additional armor be in play with weight save on new turret?

Something Terminator BMPT should have had but never did (despite being advertised)

I thought the same as FP for a bit and then I thought again.

A T-62 armed with its standard 115mm smoothbore is reasonably effective against enemy armour, but in situations where the enemy has little or no armour the weapons on this BMP-2 turret should be actually better much of the time.

Having four ready to fire Kornets means good anti heavy armour fire power is retained while 30mm cannon and 30mm grenade launcher and machine gun should provide decent fire power for most other threats.

Replacing the T-62s sounds like an attempt to remove this odd calibre from their inventory... which I think is probably sensible, and there is no reason why these vehicles need to operate alone... they might mix these modified T-62s with T-72s or upgraded T-55s that retain their main tank guns for direct fire HE rounds too.

Could option for additional armor be in play with weight save on new turret?

Something Terminator BMPT should have had but never did (despite being advertised)

Terminators are based on T-72 and T-90 tanks and have better armour than the T-62, while the BMP-2 turret should resist light cannon fire and HMG fire, the Terminator turrets really don't project much above the hull and are therefore protected by frontal hull armour primarily so are better protected too.

One correction.
2T Stalker was not connected to T-72.
This was a brand new project, including a new hull with engine and transmission.
One of the coolest features 2T had, was the sound level it generated. The engine was made based on the one from Tunguska, but they made it extremely quiet. I remember seeing a film with it, where you could hear it just few meters in front of camera. It was so quiet, that you could hear clearly the jurno who commented the performance, standing just by.

ALAMO wrote:One correction.
2T Stalker was not connected to T-72.
This was a brand new project, including a new hull with engine and transmission.
One of the coolest features 2T had, was the sound level it generated. The engine was made based on the one from Tunguska, but they made it extremely quiet. I remember seeing a film with it, where you could hear it just few meters in front of camera. It was so quiet, that you could hear clearly the jurno who commented the performance, standing just by.

There was a video clip on YouTube with a Belarusian officer saying it had a 740bhp engine from a T-72, and was based on a design of T-72 with same protection. But the link I had saved is no longer valid. But I know it was lighter than T-72 but that could be down to a different turret, but the main point is they could do do something similar with T-72, T-62, T-55AMV, and would be a great addition to a section of T-90, BMPT-72, although as I said a 57mm gun instead of 30mm, an AGS system, X2 Kornet, X2 verba, and this would at least give the armoured section additional firepower and the bonus of AA protection. U could even add bulat missile pack, or replace the 57mm cannon with a 14.5mm gattling to deal with infantry and soft skinned vehicles. And could still provide AA threat. AT-15, AT-6, or konkurs if u wanted cheaper ATGW. Could even replace the cannon with automatic 82mm mortar system, or 120mm mortar, The options are endless.

ALAMO wrote:One correction.
2T Stalker was not connected to T-72.
This was a brand new project, including a new hull with engine and transmission.
One of the coolest features 2T had, was the sound level it generated. The engine was made based on the one from Tunguska, but they made it extremely quiet. I remember seeing a film with it, where you could hear it just few meters in front of camera. It was so quiet, that you could hear clearly the jurno who commented the performance, standing just by.

Stalker was a project from Belarus. The chassis seems to be derived from the T-72 though? Similar road wheels. I see that the engine used was from the T-72 but there is clear indication that they can install a variety engines and transmissions - depending on the customer's requirements.

Back to Algeria >> the T-62 conversion into a infantry fire support vehicle seem to me to as a good cheaper option as they have a huge number of modern tanks far more capable than the T-62. No shortage there. They don't really need the T-62 anymore so why not turn it into something useful whilst the chassis is available?

ALAMO wrote:One correction.
2T Stalker was not connected to T-72.
This was a brand new project, including a new hull with engine and transmission.
One of the coolest features 2T had, was the sound level it generated. The engine was made based on the one from Tunguska, but they made it extremely quiet. I remember seeing a film with it, where you could hear it just few meters in front of camera. It was so quiet, that you could hear clearly the jurno who commented the performance, standing just by.

Well that makes sense because the Stalker was a recon vehicle

This thing isn't of course

GarryB wrote:I thought the same as FP for a bit and then I thought again.

A T-62 armed with its standard 115mm smoothbore is reasonably effective against enemy armour, but in situations where the enemy has little or no armour the weapons on this BMP-2 turret should be actually better much of the time.

Having four ready to fire Kornets means good anti heavy armour fire power is retained while 30mm cannon and 30mm grenade launcher and machine gun should provide decent fire power for most other threats.

Replacing the T-62s sounds like an attempt to remove this odd calibre from their inventory... which I think is probably sensible, and there is no reason why these vehicles need to operate alone... they might mix these modified T-62s with T-72s or upgraded T-55s that retain their main tank guns for direct fire HE rounds too.

The thing is though they'll still have their actual IFVs there, transporting infantry, and armed with the same 30mm cannons and Kornet ATGMs (I think they upgraded their BMP-1/2s already).
In that case the 115mm HE rounds as a sort of assault gun role might make more sense.

So this vehicle is kind of superfluous is what I'm saying.
Rather, it looks like a sort of BMPT-lite vehicle; considering its armament. It would actually be more useful in that case paired with other tanks and moving ahead directly with them rather than with infantry.

flamming_python wrote:

GarryB wrote:I thought the same as FP for a bit and then I thought again.

A T-62 armed with its standard 115mm smoothbore is reasonably effective against enemy armour, but in situations where the enemy has little or no armour the weapons on this BMP-2 turret should be actually better much of the time.

Having four ready to fire Kornets means good anti heavy armour fire power is retained while 30mm cannon and 30mm grenade launcher and machine gun should provide decent fire power for most other threats.

Replacing the T-62s sounds like an attempt to remove this odd calibre from their inventory... which I think is probably sensible, and there is no reason why these vehicles need to operate alone... they might mix these modified T-62s with T-72s or upgraded T-55s that retain their main tank guns for direct fire HE rounds too.

The thing is though they'll still have their actual IFVs there, transporting infantry, and armed with the same 30mm cannons and Kornet ATGMs (I think they upgraded their BMP-1/2s already).
In that case the 115mm HE rounds as a sort of assault gun role might make more sense.

So this vehicle is kind of superfluous is what I'm saying.
Rather, it looks like a sort of BMPT-lite vehicle; considering its armament. It would actually be more useful in that case paired with other tanks and moving ahead directly with them rather than with infantry.

I think obviously wanted to make a cheap conversion, and get rid of the 115mm. The upgraded T-55AMV is being used as a fire support vehicle rather than a MBT which is fine. Although I think because of the amount of Bmp-1&2 they have converted already, and most likely convert more bmp-1 which will phase out the 73mm round. But having a 57mm gun turret on the T-62 and Kornet would have added an additional firepower to deal with a lot of more modern APC, and IFV which are getting protection against 30mm, the T-62 with 57mm would deal with those threats, and if they have high enough elevation it would be more lethal to helicopters. And of course u could anything combination on them as I previously mentioned, but I think the main think here is they haven't scrapped them and made use of a fairly decent chassis with reasonable armour that's no longer fit for MBT warfare but good enough for fire support vehicles. They have pretty much made a cheap BMPT.

The Algerian military wants to turn the T-62 into a BMPT using the Berezhok. 

The Algerian military is going to turn the T-62 into tank support combat vehicles. The material about this is posted on the portal menadefense.net. To implement this project, the turret with the 115-mm smoothbore 2A20 gun will be dismantled from the medium tank, and the Berezhok combat compartment will be installed instead.

It can be assumed that the cases will also be modified, perhaps reactive armor will be installed on them.

The publication notes that Algeria became the first country where the "Berezhok" was used to modernize the BMP-1, and then the BMP-2. Its high firepower is provided by the Kornet anti-tank missile system with laser guidance, the 2A42 30-mm automatic cannon, the AGS-30 remote-controlled grenade launcher, the PKT machine gun, modern day and night sights.

The new armored vehicle, like the BMPT Terminator, will cover the actions of infantry and tank units, destroying enemy manpower and armored vehicles.

Intended appearance:


Source: 

The thing is though they'll still have their actual IFVs there, transporting infantry, and armed with the same 30mm cannons and Kornet ATGMs (I think they upgraded their BMP-1/2s already).
In that case the 115mm HE rounds as a sort of assault gun role might make more sense.

But the tanks they have will likely have 125mm guns anyway, when they said it would be for an IFV role I assumed they were not going to try to cram troops into it but were going to use it to support tanks, so it would be operating further forward than the IFVs would with its heavier armour.

Hard to know exactly how they intend to use it really... wonder what they are going to do with all those T-62 tank turrets... would be interesting to mount them in pill boxes for coastal defence if their was a naval threat. Would upgrade them for better main gun elevation though.

Rather, it looks like a sort of BMPT-lite vehicle; considering its armament. It would actually be more useful in that case paired with other tanks and moving ahead directly with them rather than with infantry.

That is what I was thinking they would do with it...

I assume they have motor rifle infantry type divisions but also tank divisions... motor rifle divisions are more useful for jobs where tanks are not so useful... like where the enemy doesn't have a lot of armour... in which case this sort of vehicle might be a good fire power booster for convoys or base defence or defending airfields or ports or whatever...

I think we would have to at Algeria's likely threat, most African countries lack heavy MBT's and majority have light armour to which 30mm will most likely destroy, and kornet is there Incase it comes across something heavier or at longer range. And certainly against a low tech Al shabab insurgency attack this vehicle would be enough. Although it's interesting that they are using kornet on everything as it's more expensive than konkurs. The only upgrade where I have seen Algeria using konkurs was the AML-60&90, they have two upgrade packages, both have automated 14.5mm gun upgrade, and one with konkurs and the other with kornet. And I know they bought stugna from Ukraine a Ukrainian version of Bastion although some sources say it on par and some say it's not as good, but when they showcased there MT-12 mounted on zenos trucks, they mentioned it would be used for indirect fire, still carried HEAT and bastion rounds.

Algeria seems to to be on a mad rush buying and upgrading it's forces fairly quickly. It's certainly a force to be reckoned with. Question is what will it buy or upgrade next lol.