The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

Flagship Victory wrote:

par far wrote:

franco wrote:@ flagship

Please read and memorize, there will be a quiz afterwards;
http://www.sputniknews.com/europe/20150816/1025809053.html

And then please invoke that memory whenever you want to know why Russia doesn't attack Ukraine or give more support to the Donbas.

This is how the west media works and it is mostly Russia's fault. Either sent in Russian peacekeepers(I don't know how effective this strategy is going to be) or let the NAF go on a offensive, give them support and make another Debaltseve pocket and collapse the fascist Ukrainian army and Ukraine will go with it(this will be very hard). Russia is letting this happen to it self because it wants/needs to sell oil and gas to Europe and Europe is control of the US.

I don't agree. If it is what you say, Russia would have been pressured to return Crimea to Ukraine. That has not happened. Clearly, it is not economic sanction that is preventing Putin from letting NAF take territory.

It is either economic sanctions or the image that Russia will get as aggressor(mostly in west media and Russia already has that image), that is holding Putin back. And I think it is mostly economic sanctions. Could there be anything else?

Zakharchenko wrote:Украина готова перейти в наступление. На сегодня против нас Киев выдвинул 65000 человек. Передовые подразделения развернуты в атакующие порядки. Минские переговоры на самом деле сорваны. Мы - должны победить, это наша обязанность."

Ukraine is ready to start an offensive. Against us today are 65,000 people. Frontline units are positioned to go on the attack. The minsk negotiations are broken. We have to win, its our obligation."

Its a hell of a statement, I guess the waiting game begins now to see who blinks first.

par far wrote:It is either economic sanctions or the image that Russia will get as aggressor(mostly in west media), that is holding Putin back. And I think it is mostly economic sanctions. Could there be anything else?  

Economic sanction will end once Maidan is booted out of Kiev and the legitimate Ukrainian government restored.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

franco wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

franco wrote:The West and Ukrainians being prepped for another Russian invasion of Ukraine thru the Donbas. The interesting development in all of this is the admission that there actually are rebels fighting against Kiev, something that up to the end of 2014 was heresy;
(link removed)

Both Donetsk and Lugansk leaders have been saying that Ukraine has been trying to provoke the NAF into attacking them, but barring that, will soon attack claiming it to be a preemptive strike.
The activity a couple of nights back could have been a feint to get the NAF to attack, or a trial run as you probably remember the Georgians doing a mass deployment out of their bases a couple of weeks prior back in 2008. It could also been to test NAF reaction times.
The UAF has massed 4 large strike forces of 10-15,000 troops per;
One is directed north of Mariupol,
One south of Donetsk,
One north of Gorlovka,
One north of Lugansk,

PS; were any of you aware the NAF attacked the UAF a couple of days back and suffered 130 dead as per the article linked

echechechec

people say don't shoot the messenger. I say old chap, blow him to pieces.

Ecce Adam Nathan the author...dude's a fake account most probably and manages an "NGO in Kyiv", as well as a freelance 'writer'. This is hogwash, Peremoga style...relaks. Guy is a contributor to UA today and one of the many plants from our firends am Westen to preach the good word.

As per my comment to start, "the West and Ukrainians being prepped".

The rest stands on it's own.

I agree, just providing background on author...because that clash killing 130 people is a bit like me humping Miss Universe last evening, it surely did happen, 100%

Adam Nathan is definitely commected to the Ukrop government

On 12 June 2015, the Ukrop ministry of information reported "Advisor to Minister of Information Policy of Ukraine on European Integration Adam Nathan Advises on "Embedded Journalism" Program in ATO Area"

h t t p ://mip.gov.ua/en/news/384.html

It is an indicator of his, and the Independent's, integrity that this fact was not mentioned in the article Franco linked to.

BTW KoTeMoRe, pics or it doesn't count!

Rodinazombie wrote:

Zakharchenko wrote:Украина готова перейти в наступление. На сегодня против нас Киев выдвинул 65000 человек. Передовые подразделения развернуты в атакующие порядки. Минские переговоры на самом деле сорваны. Мы - должны победить, это наша обязанность."

Ukraine is ready to start an offensive. Against us today are 65,000 people. Frontline units are positioned to go on the attack. The minsk negotiations are broken. We have to win, its our obligation."

Its a hell of a statement, I guess the waiting game begins now to see who blinks first.

Looks like Maidan will launch offensive on August 24 Independence Day.

American Eagle wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote: Former DIA Chief Michael Flynn Says Rise Of ISIS Was A "Willful Decision" Of US Government

Don't worry bro, once we don't need these guys anymore, we'll dump them like a piece of toilet paper

I see, so this is why you bothered to rebuild World Trade center in NYC? Nice fresh target, I give you that...

Just curious, have you asked other Americans about this approach to foreign policy 'cause I have a feeling you are in distinct minority here...

They say this is the photo of Russian army near Lughansk in august 2014.
I do not think it is true but nevertheless, this is awesome pic and I am totally using it as my new desktop wallpaper!!!  

sepheronx wrote:Just look at his posts in the russian economy thread to get an idea. He uses links that use shit journalist sites to claims that dont have any actual evidence but claims. He does it purposely.

I know man.

I enjoy the presence of this new troll, he provides me with quality entertainment.

Someone I know is currently Skyping with her friend. She says you can hear tanks shooting in the background. Somewhere in Donetsk. So let's be logical here. The war basically restarted. This massive shooting is the typical preparatory move before one of the sides goes on the offensive. I'm guessing it's Ukrops.

Neutrality wrote:Someone I know is currently Skyping with her friend. She says you can hear tanks shooting in the background. Somewhere in Donetsk. So let's be logical here. The war basically restarted. This massive shooting is the typical preparatory move before one of the sides goes on the offensive. I'm  guessing it's Ukrops.

I expected ground offensive on August 24 Independence Day but it could happen before that.

Chersonesus wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

franco wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

franco wrote:The West and Ukrainians being prepped for another Russian invasion of Ukraine thru the Donbas. The interesting development in all of this is the admission that there actually are rebels fighting against Kiev, something that up to the end of 2014 was heresy;
(link removed)

Both Donetsk and Lugansk leaders have been saying that Ukraine has been trying to provoke the NAF into attacking them, but barring that, will soon attack claiming it to be a preemptive strike.
The activity a couple of nights back could have been a feint to get the NAF to attack, or a trial run as you probably remember the Georgians doing a mass deployment out of their bases a couple of weeks prior back in 2008. It could also been to test NAF reaction times.
The UAF has massed 4 large strike forces of 10-15,000 troops per;
One is directed north of Mariupol,
One south of Donetsk,
One north of Gorlovka,
One north of Lugansk,

PS; were any of you aware the NAF attacked the UAF a couple of days back and suffered 130 dead as per the article linked

echechechec

people say don't shoot the messenger. I say old chap, blow him to pieces.

Ecce Adam Nathan the author...dude's a fake account most probably and manages an "NGO in Kyiv", as well as a freelance 'writer'. This is hogwash, Peremoga style...relaks. Guy is a contributor to UA today and one of the many plants from our firends am Westen to preach the good word.

As per my comment to start, "the West and Ukrainians being prepped".

The rest stands on it's own.

I agree, just providing background on author...because that clash killing 130 people is a bit like me humping Miss Universe last evening, it surely did happen, 100%

Adam Nathan is definitely commected to the Ukrop government

On 12 June 2015, the Ukrop ministry of information reported "Advisor to Minister of Information Policy of Ukraine on European Integration Adam Nathan Advises on "Embedded Journalism" Program in ATO Area"

h t t p ://mip.gov.ua/en/news/384.html

It is an indicator of his, and the Independent's, integrity that this fact was not mentioned in the article Franco linked to.

BTW KoTeMoRe, pics or it doesn't count!

You want pics of what? Unicorns?

Neutrality wrote:Someone I know is currently Skyping with her friend. She says you can hear tanks shooting in the background. Somewhere in Donetsk. So let's be logical here. The war basically restarted. This massive shooting is the typical preparatory move before one of the sides goes on the offensive. I'm  guessing it's Ukrops.

Could be this reported ukrops attack into Spartak, and also Yasinovataya again. Also ukrops Grad came down around Putilovsky bridge area and VSN reported to be replying. ukrops Grad around Putilovsky bridge area could be to supress reinforcement to Spartak.

PapaDragon wrote:
They say this is the photo of Russian army near Lughansk in august 2014.
I do not think it is true but nevertheless, this is awesome pic and I am totally using it as my new desktop wallpaper!!!  

That's not in Luhansk, but at the border. This is a command platoon at work ( 4 tanks+ BREM-1) in a nice photo op. Notice that guns are in salute mode, there's no NSV/Kord on the mast and the mood is fairly relaxed.

'You want pics of what? Unicorns?'

Yes, either unicorns or Miss Universe.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
They say this is the photo of Russian army near Lughansk in august 2014.
I do not think it is true but nevertheless, this is awesome pic and I am totally using it as my new desktop wallpaper!!!  

That's not  in Luhansk, but at the border. This is a command platoon at work ( 4 tanks+ BREM-1) in a nice photo op. Notice that guns are in salute mode, there's no NSV/Kord on the mast and the mood is fairly relaxed.

Yes, everything is in 'travel lock' mode with dust covers and half the crews are working on their tans, ergo no one near them.

Khepesh wrote:

Neutrality wrote:Someone I know is currently Skyping with her friend. She says you can hear tanks shooting in the background. Somewhere in Donetsk. So let's be logical here. The war basically restarted. This massive shooting is the typical preparatory move before one of the sides goes on the offensive. I'm  guessing it's Ukrops.

Could be this reported ukrops attack into Spartak, and also Yasinovataya again. Also ukrops Grad came down around Putilovsky bridge area and VSN reported to be replying. ukrops Grad around Putilovsky bridge area could be to supress reinforcement to Spartak.

Is Minsk 2 finished? I pray to lord let there be fighting already. So boring!

Breaking. Heavy shelling near Mariupol.

As we see, potential black flag operation in Mariupol to use as a casus belli. Mariupol is ukrops best and almost only opportunity for this.

Khepesh wrote:As we see, potential black flag operation in Mariupol to use as a casus belli. Mariupol is ukrops best and almost only opportunity for this.

Maidan does not need to make a casus belli. Maidan ground offensive on August 24 Independence Day casus belli is liberation of Donetsk from terrorists. After all, this is an anti terrorist operation ATO. No one ever said the ATO is finished. Minsk does not specify an end to ATO.

auslander wrote:'You want pics of what? Unicorns?'

Yes, either unicorns or Miss Universe.  

Thanks for translating. Jokes rarely cross a cultural border!

The shelling already reported at Dokuchaevsk is reported now to be "massive". Also large numbers of ukrops DRG reported to be operating, Basurin has said that some of these have been captured, but others are reported active around and into Gorlovka. Basurin has also cuaght up with what everybody else has been talking about all day and states about three ukrops "armies" ready to assault. Earlier Zakharchenko dropped the pretence about Minsk, and to an extent did Plotnitsky, tho rather veiled.

par far wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

par far wrote:

franco wrote:@ flagship

Please read and memorize, there will be a quiz afterwards;
http://www.sputniknews.com/europe/20150816/1025809053.html

And then please invoke that memory whenever you want to know why Russia doesn't attack Ukraine or give more support to the Donbas.

This is how the west media works and it is mostly Russia's fault. Either sent in Russian peacekeepers(I don't know how effective this strategy is going to be) or let the NAF go on a offensive, give them support and make another Debaltseve pocket and collapse the fascist Ukrainian army and Ukraine will go with it(this will be very hard). Russia is letting this happen to it self because it wants/needs to sell oil and gas to Europe and Europe is control of the US.

I don't agree. If it is what you say, Russia would have been pressured to return Crimea to Ukraine. That has not happened. Clearly, it is not economic sanction that is preventing Putin from letting NAF take territory.

It is either economic sanctions or the image that Russia will get as aggressor(mostly in west media and Russia already has that image), that is holding Putin back. And I think it is mostly economic sanctions. Could there be anything else?

Not an insider (obviously), so can't be entirely sure, but my hunch is that the Russian state's concern about its image w/ Western governments or the Western general population is not its first priority. I imagine that they reached the realistic conclusion that those are overwhelmingly influenced by the West's own vast propaganda machine. There's only so much they can do to attempt to counter that. That assessment I would guess, extends to Western "leaders," who must be proven doublethinkers in order to advance their careers.

I would guess that Russia's deliberate image management is more concerned with the leadership in countries in Asia, South America and Africa. It's to them that it would make sense to present a consistent image that is a contrast to Western bellicosity and imperialism (which is masked by self-righteousness and ceaseless lying). Those are people worth influencing, and who likely have a far more realistic assessment of what really happens in the world.

MOSCOW, August 16. /TASS/. Security officers of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) have frustrated a Ukrainian sabotage and reconnaissance group, spokesman for the DPR defnce ministry Eduard Basurin said on Sunday. "A Ukrainian sabotage party was frustrated in a special operation of the DPR state security ministry on August 13. As a result, three Ukrainian militants were killed, one was detained," the Donetsk News Agency quoted him as saying. "No further details can be disclosed in the interests of the investigation." He said however that the detained Ukrainian officer "has information about an offensive the Ukrainian army command is planning against the Donetsk and Lugansk republics." Basurin added that DPR security services had exposed 11 such groups tasked to abduct DPR servicemen to later use them in fake reports about detention of Russian servicemen.

Ukraine’s army has pulled three army units, more than 430 tanks, 132 multiple launch rocket systems and up to 830 artillery pieces and mortars to the line of engagement in Donbass, Eduard Basurin, a spokesman for the defence ministry of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR), said on Sunday.

"The Ukrainian group in sector C consists of up to 22 battalions, 130 tanks, 950 armoured personnel carriers, 290 artillery weapons and mortars, and up to 35 multiple launch rocket systems," the Donetsk News Agency quoted him as saying.

Apart from that, he said, up to 26 battalions with 230 tanks and 75 multiple launch rocket systems have been concentrated in sector B. Up to 20 battalions, 75 tanks and 22 multiple launchers are deployed in sector M.

"Over the day, Ukrainian troops have been building up weapons of a caliber more than 100mm along the line of contact in violation of the Minsk agreements the Ukrainian side put its signature under," Basurin said.

He said deployment of so many weapons prohibited by the Minsk agreements evidenced Kiev’s preparations for a new phase of large-scale combat operations. "We call on the international community to take urgent measures to prevent inhumane and criminal plans of [Ukrainian President ] Pyotr Poroshenko to unleash a new spiral of combat operations and genocide in eastern Europe. It is not yet late to prevent a fire of a new war in Europe," Basurin stressed.

JohninMK wrote:MOSCOW, August 16. /TASS/. Security officers of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) have frustrated a Ukrainian sabotage and reconnaissance group, spokesman for the DPR defnce ministry Eduard Basurin said on Sunday. "A Ukrainian sabotage party was frustrated in a special operation of the DPR state security ministry on August 13. As a result, three Ukrainian militants were killed, one was detained," the Donetsk News Agency quoted him as saying. "No further details can be disclosed in the interests of the investigation." He said however that the detained Ukrainian officer "has information about an offensive the Ukrainian army command is planning against the Donetsk and Lugansk republics." Basurin added that DPR security services had exposed 11 such groups tasked to abduct DPR servicemen to later use them in fake reports about detention of Russian servicemen.

Ukraine’s army has pulled three army units, more than 430 tanks, 132 multiple launch rocket systems and up to 830 artillery pieces and mortars to the line of engagement in Donbass, Eduard Basurin, a spokesman for the defence ministry of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR), said on Sunday.

"The Ukrainian group in sector C consists of up to 22 battalions, 130 tanks, 950 armoured personnel carriers, 290 artillery weapons and mortars, and up to 35 multiple launch rocket systems," the Donetsk News Agency quoted him as saying.

Apart from that, he said, up to 26 battalions with 230 tanks and 75 multiple launch rocket systems have been concentrated in sector B. Up to 20 battalions, 75 tanks and 22 multiple launchers are deployed in sector M.

"Over the day, Ukrainian troops have been building up weapons of a caliber more than 100mm along the line of contact in violation of the Minsk agreements the Ukrainian side put its signature under," Basurin said.

He said deployment of so many weapons prohibited by the Minsk agreements evidenced Kiev’s preparations for a new phase of large-scale combat operations. "We call on the international community to take urgent measures to prevent inhumane and criminal plans of [Ukrainian President ] Pyotr Poroshenko to unleash a new spiral of combat operations and genocide in eastern Europe. It is not yet late to prevent a fire of a new war in Europe," Basurin stressed.

And there is a fourth group concentrated against Lugansk.