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Bulava was a rather significant step in technology, wrote:
What a significant step? R-29RMU is a much better SLBM.
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Project 955: Borei class SSBN
Arrow- Posts : 3490
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What a significant step? R-29RMU is a much better SLBM.
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4901
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Arrow wrote:What a significant step? R-29RMU is a much better SLBM.
Better?
How? Why? What is this, kindergarten analyst hour?
Troll moron.
Hole- Posts : 11122
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R-29RMU is the modernisation of an old missile. With liquid propellant. It was developed as a backup if Bulava would fail and also because the 667BDR and 667BDRM subs needed something to shoot. It would have beend to costly to modify them to be able to use the Bulava.
Both missiles can carry up to ten warheads to more than 8.000 km. Bulava is lighter and maybe more precise but in the end they are both WMD´s.
Newski and Monomach fired Bulavas in 2014. Both are deployed in the Pacific. After firing missiles they would have to go back to Severodvinsk to replenish them. Dolgoruki is based in the high north so it is easier for the navy to use it.
Both missiles can carry up to ten warheads to more than 8.000 km. Bulava is lighter and maybe more precise but in the end they are both WMD´s.
Newski and Monomach fired Bulavas in 2014. Both are deployed in the Pacific. After firing missiles they would have to go back to Severodvinsk to replenish them. Dolgoruki is based in the high north so it is easier for the navy to use it.
Last edited by Hole on Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6171
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Arrow wrote:
What a significant step? R-29RMU is a much better SLBM.
which characteristics do you mean?
dino00- Posts : 1677
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Developer "Borei" compared it with "Virginia"
MOSCOW, December 17 - RIA News . Russian strategic submarine of the project 955 "Borey" produces two times less noise than the American multi-purpose submarine of the type "Virginia", said the general director of the Kurchatov Institute, who participated in the development of nuclear submarines, Alexander Blagov.
"Virginia" was adopted by the US Navy in 2004, "Borey" adopted by the Russian Navy in 2013.
The noise of the fourth-generation atomic submarine Borey is two times less than that of the American Virginia," Blagov said on Monday during the round table "Submarine fleet to protect Russia's national interests."
https://ria.ru/20181217/1548089645.html
Bold claim!
MOSCOW, December 17 - RIA News . Russian strategic submarine of the project 955 "Borey" produces two times less noise than the American multi-purpose submarine of the type "Virginia", said the general director of the Kurchatov Institute, who participated in the development of nuclear submarines, Alexander Blagov.
"Virginia" was adopted by the US Navy in 2004, "Borey" adopted by the Russian Navy in 2013.
The noise of the fourth-generation atomic submarine Borey is two times less than that of the American Virginia," Blagov said on Monday during the round table "Submarine fleet to protect Russia's national interests."
https://ria.ru/20181217/1548089645.html
Bold claim!
verkhoturye51- Posts : 438
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At what speed? At high speed I can imagine both boat classes are pretty good because of propulsion. Besides there are two different Borey subclasses and even more Virginias. It would be interesting to see original statement and context. Round table sounds pretty not-just-propaganda-BS, but... 
PapaDragon
PapaDragon- Posts : 13472
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dino00 wrote:Developer "Borei" compared it with "Virginia"
MOSCOW, December 17 - RIA News . Russian strategic submarine of the project 955 "Borey" produces two times less noise than the American multi-purpose submarine of the type "Virginia", said the general director of the Kurchatov Institute, who participated in the development of nuclear submarines, Alexander Blagov.
....................
Bold claim!
That's a chunky statement there señor Blagov...
Just keep that noise at decent levels and everything will be peachy, no need to chase sky-pie or anything
verkhoturye51- Posts : 438
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do you don't want to be accused of spreading western propaganda pessimism by guys from terra australis 
You can never be to careful with democracy said Stalin.
Austin- Posts : 7617
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[size=40]The expert called the advantages of the submarine class "Borey" before the American "Virginia"[/size]
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5921054
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5921054
MOSCOW, December 17th. / TASS /. The noise of the strategic submarine missile cruiser of the Borey project is two times lower than that of the American submarine Virginia. The director of the Research Center Kurchatov Institute, Alexander Blagov, told a reporter on Monday at a round table on the occasion of the 60th anniversary of the nuclear submarine fleet of Russia.
“A lot of work was done to reduce the noise of boats and reduce physical fields. The noise of the Northwind strategic submarine of the Borey project is five times lower than the third-generation multi-purpose submarines of the third generation and twice as low as the American ones” Virginia ", - said Blagov.
The submarines of projects 955 and 955A (Borey and Borey-A, respectively) were developed by the Central Design Bureau of Marine Engineering (TsKB MT) Rubin. Construction of a series of eight units is continuing at Sevmash in Severodvinsk (Arkhangelsk Region).
Differences between Projects 955 and 955A are unknown, however, according to open sources, the Boreye-A, compared to its predecessors, modernized the hull designs, new electronics are used, and Project 955A boats are notable for better stealth.
verkhoturye51- Posts : 438
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Well okay that's some more material but still it doesn't make much sense.
So Virginia has an average noise of 95 dB and twice better would be 92 dB, considering that decibels dont scale lineraly. But Russian/Soviet 3rd gen SSBNs classes Akula, Kalmar and Delfin have noises of 100 - 110 dB at speed of 4 - 8 kn, according to this and this sources.
Meaning that a 92 dB Borey would need to be much more than five times more quiet than 3rd gen, even more than ten times! It would be the most quiet submarine in the world by far. But the only official estimate from the U.S. Office of Naval Intelligence suggests that Yasen is more quiet, although still noisier than capitallist Virginia.
So Virginia has an average noise of 95 dB and twice better would be 92 dB, considering that decibels dont scale lineraly. But Russian/Soviet 3rd gen SSBNs classes Akula, Kalmar and Delfin have noises of 100 - 110 dB at speed of 4 - 8 kn, according to this and this sources.
Meaning that a 92 dB Borey would need to be much more than five times more quiet than 3rd gen, even more than ten times! It would be the most quiet submarine in the world by far. But the only official estimate from the U.S. Office of Naval Intelligence suggests that Yasen is more quiet, although still noisier than capitallist Virginia.
Arrow- Posts : 3490
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How much evaluate Yasen in dB? Borey-A has a new pupm jet propulsion. Yasen/YasenM standard screw.
Isos- Posts : 11602
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verkhoturye51 wrote:Well okay that's some more material but still it doesn't make much sense.
So Virginia has an average noise of 95 dB and twice better would be 92 dB, considering that decibels dont scale lineraly. But Russian/Soviet 3rd gen SSBNs classes Akula, Kalmar and Delfin have noises of 100 - 110 dB at speed of 4 - 8 kn, according to this and this sources.
Meaning that a 92 dB Borey would need to be much more than five times more quiet than 3rd gen, even more than ten times! It would be the most quiet submarine in the world by far. But the only official estimate from the U.S. Office of Naval Intelligence suggests that Yasen is more quiet, although still noisier than capitallist Virginia.
No need for sources. No one will know those numbers on the net so everything you read is crap.
Neither would any official tell any real number. They will only say "our is better" since submarine and specially SSBN are highly classified.
verkhoturye51- Posts : 438
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Propulsion is only one part of the story:
According to Miasnikov from Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology every generation is about 5 db quieter than the previous one so Borey and Yasen should both be about 95 db or roughly the same as Virginia. Perhaps Virginia 95 db, Yasen 96 db and Borey 97 db at 4 - 8 kn (just to give the idea of the order, not real numbers).
https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2017/04/08/yasen-graney-class-submarine-project-885885m/ wrote:The new layout method ECUs and auxiliary equipment, cooling systems and reduce the noise power allowed by 10-15 dB. Used vibration-laminated beams, stanchions, conduits and duct elements, other designs, reducing vibration noise by 10-30 dB. The equipment is mounted on a vibration-absorbing honeycomb body made of composite materials. Each structural unit is covered with sound-insulating panels. The housing is covered with a rubber protivogidroakusticheskim PLA coating. The boat used active damping system (SAG) to limit the noise of discrete frequency components of 50-500 Hz.
On SSGNs pr.885M expected use protivogidroakusticheskih type body coverings “Lightning-M” and “Lightning-M-control.” On submarines implemented outboard reinforcement circulation routes or analogous type “Fin”.
According to Miasnikov from Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology every generation is about 5 db quieter than the previous one so Borey and Yasen should both be about 95 db or roughly the same as Virginia. Perhaps Virginia 95 db, Yasen 96 db and Borey 97 db at 4 - 8 kn (just to give the idea of the order, not real numbers).
PapaDragon- Posts : 13472
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SSBN base in Rybachy, Kamchatka is being expanded for more Boreis, so much for ''Bulava/Borei don't work''
PapaDragon- Posts : 13472
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And first daytime photo of Knyaz Vladimir at sea
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Crappy low res pic of Knyaz Vladimir but better than nothing
Hole- Posts : 11122
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Argh! Those evil russkies use a evil cloud generating machine to annoy us!
zg18- Posts : 888
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PapaDragon wrote:
Crappy low res pic of Knyaz Vladimir but better than nothing
model
PapaDragon- Posts : 13472
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zg18 wrote:.........
model
https://i.imgur.com/700UjN3.jpg
Oh man this is excellent
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3910
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Hole wrote:Argh! Those evil russkies use a evil cloud generating machine to annoy us!
They clearly borrowed Cobras weather dominator.
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OMG!
Putin is cobra commander!
Putin is cobra commander!
George1- Posts : 18523
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Russian Navy RIA Novosti (News media) reporting from RFS K-535 ‘Yury Dolgorukiy’,a Borei Сlass (project 955) SSBN submarine. More photos on the link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2Z81CXWoAAGzkm.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2Z81CXWoAAGzkm.jpg
GarryB- Posts : 40546
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According to Miasnikov from Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology every generation is about 5 db quieter than the previous one so Borey and Yasen should both be about 95 db or roughly the same as Virginia. Perhaps Virginia 95 db, Yasen 96 db and Borey 97 db at 4 - 8 kn (just to give the idea of the order, not real numbers).
Hahahaha... reminds me of the weather reports here... from south to north major cities centres here are Invercargill, Dunedin, Christchurch, Wellington, Hamilton, Auckland... and the weather report for tomorrow is 18 degrees for Invercargill, 19 for Dunedin, 20 for Christchurch, 21 for Wellington, 22 for Hamilton, and 23 the nations high will be Auckland... except it never is...
I am sure where ever you are it is the same... and they are more often wrong than right... but hey it is all just guessing right?
verkhoturye51- Posts : 438
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I am sure where ever you are it is the same
Well, Yasen has arguably almost closed the gap in radiated noise with Seawolf and Virginia. Then US has opened the gap again with an acoustics improvement in Virginia submarines, starting with South Dakota. Russians then also made improvements with Yasen M. We'll have to wait for some patrol reports to tell if the gap has narrowed again.
For Borey there's much less data available. The only official data available just admit it's considerably quiter than Antey. This makes sense because pump-jet decreases high frequency broadband noise. However narrowband noise from flows can be big because of its huge hull.
GarryB- Posts : 40546
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What I am trying to say is that it is an accepted stereotype in New Zealand that the further south you go the colder you get, and they generally base all assumption on that pretext.
The problem with that logic is that it is often wrong... it possibly is colder in Dunedin than in Auckland on AVERAGE, but average numbers are average and not actual.
Also being closer to the south pole in the middle of summer it might get totally dark at 10pm at night and be light in the morning at about 5am, of course conversely in the middle of winter it gets light at 8am and dark at 5.30pm, but in Auckland the sunrise and sunset times don't really change that much... 6-7am and 6-7pm...
What I am trying to say is someone from Auckland who does not know any better could come down to central otago at the height of summer with a coat and long pants and sweat like they have never sweated before... or they can go to the same place in the middle of winter and see snow for the first time.
Basing assumptions and projecting ideas based on numbers that are estimated is stupid.
The Soviets were not really interested in very long range snipers, and they were not interested in super quiet subs for most of last century... that changed for the Russians for snipers in the 1990s and the mid 1970s for subs... right now there is no reason Russian equipment for sniper rifles or submarines would be inferior to any others made anywhere.
Well I think you are looking the wrong way... I would say the Lada is better than all three in terms of noise.
Why, do you think they will be honest?
Do you think they will even be relevant?
Imagine the Russians have been fitting noise makers to their subs for peace time and normal operations... any serious situation or combat arises and they turn it off and go full stealthy...
For operational use and training they have to go into international waters, but they don't have to reveal their true signatures...
The problem with that logic is that it is often wrong... it possibly is colder in Dunedin than in Auckland on AVERAGE, but average numbers are average and not actual.
Also being closer to the south pole in the middle of summer it might get totally dark at 10pm at night and be light in the morning at about 5am, of course conversely in the middle of winter it gets light at 8am and dark at 5.30pm, but in Auckland the sunrise and sunset times don't really change that much... 6-7am and 6-7pm...
What I am trying to say is someone from Auckland who does not know any better could come down to central otago at the height of summer with a coat and long pants and sweat like they have never sweated before... or they can go to the same place in the middle of winter and see snow for the first time.
Basing assumptions and projecting ideas based on numbers that are estimated is stupid.
The Soviets were not really interested in very long range snipers, and they were not interested in super quiet subs for most of last century... that changed for the Russians for snipers in the 1990s and the mid 1970s for subs... right now there is no reason Russian equipment for sniper rifles or submarines would be inferior to any others made anywhere.
Well, Yasen has arguably almost closed the gap in radiated noise with Seawolf and Virginia.
Well I think you are looking the wrong way... I would say the Lada is better than all three in terms of noise.
We'll have to wait for some patrol reports to tell if the gap has narrowed again.
Why, do you think they will be honest?
Do you think they will even be relevant?
Imagine the Russians have been fitting noise makers to their subs for peace time and normal operations... any serious situation or combat arises and they turn it off and go full stealthy...
For Borey there's much less data available. The only official data available just admit it's considerably quiter than Antey. This makes sense because pump-jet decreases high frequency broadband noise. However narrowband noise from flows can be big because of its huge hull.
For operational use and training they have to go into international waters, but they don't have to reveal their true signatures...