Su-35 vs F-22/F-35

Podlodka77 wrote:

Atmosphere wrote:"which may not even compare to F-35s in terms of performance."

Yes, its like comparing Porsche 911 GT2RS (Su-57) with my diesel powered Audi A4 (F-35).

Atmosphere wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:

Atmosphere wrote:"which may not even compare to F-35s in terms of performance."

Yes, its like comparing Porsche 911 GT2RS (Su-57) with my diesel powered Audi A4 (F-35).

One thing i never understand is the audacity of the claims surrounding the "inferiority" of the Su-57, when you look at trial interviews you will notice how examining an aircraft takes a very long time, even for experts and pilots, and yet you have people online claiming all these fallacies without a shadow of engineering background or anything similar.

Why destroy them? That would lift a massive burden from the maintenance units of the enemy.

Isos wrote:With all the new long range precise munitions and the spread of drones those f-35 will be destroyed on the ground. Kh-35 is getting a range of 550km. Smerch are getting 200-300km range rockets. Sukhois will get hypersonic tactical missiles. And let's not forget iskander.

RTN wrote:

Isos wrote:With all the new long range precise munitions and the spread of drones those f-35 will be destroyed on the ground. Kh-35 is getting a range of 550km. Smerch are getting 200-300km range rockets. Sukhois will get hypersonic tactical missiles. And let's not forget iskander.

So? F-35s, F-16s, F-15s, F-18s will be accompanied by UCAVs that will be used to target enemy SAM and artillery. Manned aircraft will come into the picture once the UCAVs have done their job.

limb wrote:welp,
I guess those 4 Su-57s are being delayed. This is like a boutique supercar production line rather than serial aircraft production.

LMFS wrote:

Autodestruct wrote:You got a very binary view of things, LMFS.  There is no sudden transition.  But the F-22 wasn't designed with the sensors and comms necessary to function in the next level of network centric warfare that US planners envision in the next ten to fifteen years.  It would be an expensive fifth wheel - when operating, and its older generation stealth technology requires it to be a hangar queen.  It's too expensive to be a mere ordinance truck like the F-15EX.  And no "modest" priced modernization can change that.

I'll tell you one thing, if you remove your latest fighter from service with half of the normal platform life, while you continue to order, upgrade and operate its predecessor, you have fucked up big time. No excuses and no way to hide it.

F-15 and Su-27 where not designed for AESA, FBW, modern engines with FADEC and much higher thrust, new weapons, completely different sensors, avionics and defensive systems, but they were gutted around half of their platform life (much later in fact in the case of the F-15) and resulted in known platforms with mostly known issues and operational processes, only with vastly upgraded capabilities. Which is, due to unavoidable phenomena derived from the nature of development and troubleshooting processes, way faster and cheaper than creating a new platform from scratch and starting the maturing process of every single possible long term failure mode interaction from scratch.

So, the USAF could take the F-22 and include cheek radars, for which there was space provision, the advanced IRST which was also foreseen, optimize the structure, include EW systems and data links, maybe even gain space in the ventral weapons bay and reduce the size of the side ones which are totally underused to gain fuel capacity, change the RAM/RAS to the type used by the F-35, update the avionics and even change the engines to an adaptive version of the F119 that would bring outstanding kinematic capabilities and substantially increased range. Some of those items were, BTW, the core of that famous "hybrid" between the F-35 and F-22 that they were wanting the Japanese to pay. With such a plane, they would have a serious platform for many, many years to come, at a fraction of the cost of a brand new one, more even if DE is used for the design and preliminary tests, since already existing real world tests can be used to calibrate the digital models. More importantly, they would have a fallback plan in case the NGAD does not work 100% according to the systematically overoptimistic expectations that are also systematically used to trick the congress at program's kick-off in order to gain the required financing under rosy views of the future. I have said this before, this way of doing things is pure negligence at best, outright crime at worst. Risk management works exactly the other way around, by creating alternatives and not by destroying them. US MIC is again selling the dummy and convincing people that is "cheaper" to throw everything that you have been working on for the last 30 years in the trash and start from scratch, than improving gradually. Only someone with no actual experience in any industry or development process of any kind can believe that, because the notion is simply ludicrous.

As to the NGAD, it is still to be seen if the platform (first iteration of the fighter component at least) will indeed be a new design or just another way to make that "hybrid" above palatable for the political class and public opinion. Maybe they enlarge the platform for more range and payload and put 2x F135 or better their adaptive follower, that would be a very serious plane. They probably know it is necessary to update the F-22, they have tried with the restart of the production and with the hybrid already, but they don't get traction among the politicians unless they promise mind blowing capabilities that politicians and media can sell to a public always ready to be fooled in name of maintaining their claimed superiority. It is always the same story and they are tricked always the same, but they don't seem to learn.

Backman wrote:Im not sure why anyone expected it to be pumped out like F-35's. Its not even typical for the US to pump out copies of a new jet like they are with the F-35 so I've heard.

Its hard to find the original production schedules for F-16's, F-18's and F-15's. Does anyone know where to find these ?

Its kinda annoying to hear ppl cracking the whip on su 57 production all the time. Its fully developed. Thats the main thing.

Backman wrote: Basically you are saying that NGAD is the same mistake that they made with the F-22 all over again. It does seem that way. They are hyping all these game changing technologies. And instead of just putting small all-moving verticals on it like the su 57 has , they are going to delete them entirely. Just to show how cool they are.

Except this time , the F-22 isn't fallback capable.

Hole wrote:Thank you. I needed a good laugh and your post is really funny. F-35 a top line fighter...

bitcointrader70 wrote:

Hole wrote:Thank you. I needed a good laugh and your post is really funny. F-35 a top line fighter...

Sorry dude just not delusional like most people here.

Better radar, better sensors, better ew, better esm and more reliable missiles.

It can passively track su35 from hundred of miles out leaking all those emissions blasting it’s radar. Su35 won’t  even know the f35 was there.

It’s the digital age now aerodynamics aren’t as important.

Western radars and micro electronics are still far better than any Russian stuff

Azi wrote:

bitcointrader70 wrote:

Hole wrote:Thank you. I needed a good laugh and your post is really funny. F-35 a top line fighter...

Sorry dude just not delusional like most people here.

Better radar, better sensors, better ew, better esm and more reliable missiles.

It can passively track su35 from hundred of miles out leaking all those emissions blasting it’s radar. Su35 won’t  even know the f35 was there.

It’s the digital age now aerodynamics aren’t as important.

Western radars and micro electronics are still far better than any Russian stuff

Sorry that`s complete and utterly bullshit...from the start to the end!

What is the basis of your claims? Because western technology performed so good against the military superpowers Iraq, Yugoslavia and Lybia? It was state of the art western technology against 60ies soviet technology (some pieces 70ies technology).

The F-22 is a good jet but it is more or less cold war technology. The F-22 was never really upgraded, it lacks an IRST, the onboard computers are early 90ies technology and the radar is not better than that of modern Sukhoi fighters.

And the myth that the F-35 is invisible to a Su-35? Why do you think so? How can the F-35 see the Su-35? Yes...with it's radar and than it's not stealth anymore? You simply know NOTHING about stealth! The concept of stealth is that one aircraft will scan with the radar and the others stay silent, sharing the data with the whole squad. An AWACS can provide the data too. Second component of stealth is that long range missiles can lose the weapon track, if the stealth jet is agile enough. And here we come to the flaw of the F-35...it's a lame sitting duck! The F-35 is so lame it can't chase Tu-22M and Tu-160, it lacks simply the speed.

Why is USA purchasing the F-15 in it's newest variant? Because F-35 is perfoming soo good?

About ESM...the Russians have far better systems than USA!

I'm tired so i stop writing here....please inform yourself before you write bullshit. Constructive criticism is okay, this a forum and everything can be discussed...but you are just trolling!