Russian Air Force numbers and procurement plans

George1 wrote:2017 Deliveries Update

Su-30SM: 18 (13 to VKS, 5 to Ru Navy)
Su-35S: 10
Su-34: 12

we expected the last batch of 4xSu-34s and 4 more Su-30SM till the end of the year

Sorry but this in not true.
Plan for Ru MoD in 2017 are 17 Su-30 , 12 for VVS and 5 for Navy, see previous post , oficial source: Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov
https://www.russiadefence.net/t1489p625-su-30-for-russian-air-force#204441

As Besovets  has received this year 6 planes in october and 6 in november, however 2 of them are transferred from Dzemgi , so the number of 2017 built airplanes are 10, exactly the number planned.

In the same way , is posible ZVO has received 3 planes (unconfirmed, Ria Novosti of other journal is not a realiable source in military affairs),
but then the supposed third airplane must be a transfer from other base.

The only reraliable source is MoD that announces the 100th Su-30SM in the the 100 plane in your inventory reaches Kursk.
These are 10MK 1505 and 1506 ,the 105th and 106th manofactured , 100 for Russia and 6 for Kazhakstan, completing the 12 for Kursk announced for this year.
https://function.mil.ru/for_media/events/details.htm?id=5442@morfSimpleEvent
12/05/2017 - Admission of the 100th Su-30 SM fighter (the airfield "Halino", Kursk) to the combat strength of the Western Military District fighter regiment

If West district have received other airplane this must be transferred from other place, probably the East district , as the two Su-35 transferred from Dzemgi to Besovets.

The press informations is unreliable, the official source said "three links" (in russian "zveno" that means "small military unit" )and these are not a precise number of aircraft. A "zveno" can be 2,3,4 or more aircraft depends of the context.

If you literally take the press words you're lost. The photos will confirm how many airplanes there are, where they come from and where they have been destined. Meanwhile, there is no reason to believe that the Irkut manufacturing and MoD acquisition plans have been modified

George1 wrote:

AMCXXL wrote:

George1 wrote:2017 Deliveries Update

Su-30SM: 18 (13 to VKS, 5 to Ru Navy)
Su-35S: 10
Su-34: 12

we expected the last batch of 4xSu-34s and 4 more Su-30SM till the end of the year

Sorry but this in not true.
Plan for Ru MoD in 2017 are 17 Su-30 , 12 for VVS and 5 for Navy, see previous post , oficial source: Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov
https://www.russiadefence.net/t1489p625-su-30-for-russian-air-force#204441

As Besovets  has received this year 6 planes in october and 6 in november, however 2 of them are transferred from Dzemgi , so the number of 2017 built airplanes are 10, exactly the number planned.

In the same way , is posible ZVO has received 3 planes (unconfirmed, Ria Novosti of other journal is not a realiable source in military affairs),
but then the supposed third airplane must be a transfer from other base.

The only reraliable source is MoD that announces the 100th Su-30SM in the the 100 plane in your inventory reaches Kursk.
These are 10MK 1505 and 1506 ,the 105th and 106th manofactured , 100 for Russia and 6 for Kazhakstan, completing the 12 for Kursk announced for this year.
https://function.mil.ru/for_media/events/details.htm?id=5442@morfSimpleEvent
12/05/2017 - Admission of the 100th Su-30 SM fighter (the airfield "Halino", Kursk) to the combat strength of the Western Military District fighter regiment

If West district have received other airplane this must be transferred from other place, probably the East district , as the two Su-35 transferred from Dzemgi to Besovets.

The press informations is unreliable, the official source said "three links" (in russian "zveno" that means "small military unit" )and these are not a precise number of aircraft. A "zveno" can be 2,3,4 or more aircraft depends of the context.

If you literally take the press words you're lost. The photos will confirm how many airplanes there are, where they come from and where they have been destined. Meanwhile, there is no reason to believe that the Irkut manufacturing and MoD acquisition plans have been modified

ok according to your data 10xSu-30s have been received in 2017 for VKS? and we expect 2 more?

Are not my data , are de data of Russian  MoD: 100 Su-30SM in the structure, 80 VKS and 20 Fleet
the last batch of december announced by MoD for Kursk complete the plan of 12 for VVs of this year, at the end of october there were already 10 handed over.
We only we ned the photos for confirm the tail numbers, the factory numbers are known since october (first flight).
If really other plane went to West is one of other base as the 2 aditional Su-35S from Dzemgi sent to Besovets, that now also need 30´s for the new Su-35 squadrons.
Several Su-30SM deployed to Akhubisnk in 2015 returned to Irkut in 2017. Really Akhtubinsk does not need 6 Su-30SM, and probably some of those could be sent to Besovets, where are more necesary.

You can look for the list of Su-30SM 10MK5 series in this page: airforce.ru/matchast/5040-su-30-istoriya-serii/ based on avaliable photos or videos and known factory series numbers, sometimes taken in the same factory or in other airports. Along the topic are the most of photos or videos of the series along the last 5 years.
For the moment only numbers Nº78 (Mk5 1502) and the two last of this year 1505 , 1506 just handed over (probably Nº81 and 82) have not known photo

George1 wrote:so our difference is that:

You say we have 12 Su-30SMs delivered (and not 13 as i wrote) and the 2017 deliveries were completed (no further ones we expect)

*i just try to to figure out the exact numbers, i dont doubt for your numbers or criticize you

The question is not "my numbers" , I am not the Ministry of Defence. All the data are in internet , you only you just need a correct interpretation.
The plan is 12 VVS +5 Navy. If other plane is sent to West is of the past years, probably one of the returned from Akhtubinsk to the Irkut plant.
When there are photos or videos we can be sure.

Anyway the list of airforce.ru is the better source , when there are changes or news, photos or videos the list is updated.I recommend you review it to see the situation of the 100 aircraft.



The same thing happens with the Su-34.
The photo showed by bmpd in the news cannot be a new airplane of 2017, must be an airplane of 277th that went to plant for adjustments and returned to Khurba. The planes do not leave the factory with regimental emblems, that is painted in repair plants or in the regiment itself.
The new planes must have different tail numbers for the current regiments, already there are 4 Nº01´s and 4 Nº02´s in the airforce. The only regiment that can receive Nº01 and Nº02 are 2 BAP of Chelyabinsk  and that is not announced. New second regiments is West or East will have higher numbers, from 50,51, or well different color.

The oficial news http://www.sukhoi.org/news/company/?id=5947 only says (as usual): The Sukhoi Company transferred the next batch of Su-34 front-line bombers to the Russian Defense Ministry as part of the state defense order of 2017. The aircraft took off from the aerodrome of the Novosibirsk Aviation Plant. V.P. Chkalov and went to the site of his deployment
The rest of the comment "according the  information bmpd...." is only literature
Four days later other similar information, http://www.sukhoi.org/news/company/?id=5948 so we know that two batch have been handed over, can be 2+2 , 4+4 or other numbers

So we must wait for photos,there is no hurry and also the Russians plan and fulfill what they have been doing since the Soviet era, so in 2017 the 16 planned planes will have been received

Russia modernize 53 Su-27 in Su-27SM, 48 for 2 regiments in far East and 5 for Lipetsk. They produce 12 new Su-27SM3 and later modernize additional 2 Su-27 to Su-27SM3 to replace 2 Su-27 SM lost. But RuAF also order modernization of additional 36 Su-27 to Su-27SM3 standard in KNAAPO. When finished, they will have around 100 Su-27SM/SM3 in armament.

medo wrote:Russia modernize 53 Su-27 in Su-27SM, 48 for 2 regiments in far East and 5 for Lipetsk. They produce 12 new Su-27SM3 and later modernize additional 2 Su-27 to Su-27SM3 to replace 2 Su-27 SM lost. But RuAF also order modernization of additional 36 Su-27 to Su-27SM3 standard in KNAAPO. When finished, they will have around 100 Su-27SM/SM3 in armament.

Can you you give us an updated list of their air forces numbers ?

They had so many Su-27 and mig-29, now it seem they don't and all the numbers seems totally fake on the net (specially wikipedia where they say they have like 200 mig-29 or Something like that).

Isos wrote:

medo wrote:Russia modernize 53 Su-27 in Su-27SM, 48 for 2 regiments in far East and 5 for Lipetsk. They produce 12 new Su-27SM3 and later modernize additional 2 Su-27 to Su-27SM3 to replace 2 Su-27 SM lost. But RuAF also order modernization of additional 36 Su-27 to Su-27SM3 standard in KNAAPO. When finished, they will have around 100 Su-27SM/SM3 in armament.

Can you you give us an updated list of their air forces numbers ?

They had so many Su-27 and mig-29, now it seem they don't and all the numbers seems totally fake on the net (specially wikipedia where they say they have like 200 mig-29 or Something like that).

Su-27 - all types including training and Naval ~ 150
Mig-29 - all types including training and Naval ~120

medo wrote:Russia modernize 53 Su-27 in Su-27SM, 48 for 2 regiments in far East and 5 for Lipetsk. They produce 12 new Su-27SM3 and later modernize additional 2 Su-27 to Su-27SM3 to replace 2 Su-27 SM lost. But RuAF also order modernization of additional 36 Su-27 to Su-27SM3 standard in KNAAPO. When finished, they will have around 100 Su-27SM/SM3 in armament.

Russia modernized 54 Su-27SM in 2003-2009 , 1 for Akhtubinsk , 5 for Lipestlk in 2003 and 48 for 4 squadrons of Far East between 2004 ans 2009
The first 6 are out of service, the airplanes of Lipestk were much more older than the others.
Of the 48 Su-27SM two were lost in accidents, so remain 46, 10 of them not to fly in last years, waitng overhaul to return to service

The 12 Su-27SM3 were surplus of chinese contract of SU-27SK , so are not "brand new". This was only a it was only an emergency solution contracted in 2009, given that the production of Su-35S was not ready, to provide a squadron to the Krymsk base that had to leave in 2011 two squads out of service due to obsolescence, planes like these are behind the Su-30SM2, stored for several years waiting to be recycled.


Russia has not contracted 36 Su-27SM3, that's just an urban legend from a Russian aviation forum that the blog bmpd copied without verifying its authenticity.
According to those rumors in 2017, 12 Su-27SM3 should have been received, but it is simply not true.
KnAAPO is working in Su-35S and Su-57.
Russia has enough with the Su-35S to renew its entire fleet of 27's in 2025

Also in 2020 the first batch of Su-27SM will have 15-16 years old since modernization  and 30 to 33 years old in total, time for be retired, one sq. per year replaced for more Su-35S , so simple. It is not true that the planes will accumulate up to 100. By 2020-1 all the Su-27S/P will be retired and in 2025-6, except the Navy, there will only be Su-35S

franco wrote:

Isos wrote:

Can you you give us an updated list of their air forces numbers ?

They had so many Su-37 and mig-29, now it seem they don't and all the numbers seems totally fake on the net (specially wikipedia where they say they have like 200 mig-29 or Something like that).

Su-27 - all types including training and Naval ~ 150
Mig-29 - all types including training and Naval ~120

Besovets: 12 Su-27SM , half a dozen Su-27P and 3 Su-27UB . other 40-45 Su-27S stored waiting for recicling
Khotilovo: 12 Su-27SM , half a dozen Su-27S/P and 3 Su-27UB.
Belbek: 12 Su-27SM , 12 Su-27P , 3 Su-27UB
Krymsk: 14 Su-27SM3 , 4 Su-27P , 2 Su-27UB , other 2 dozens grounded since 2011 in process of recicling
Kubinka 8-10 Su-27P waiting for replacement of Su-35S
Kushchovskaya: 10 Su-27UB/S (8+2)
Aktubinsk: 2 Su-27UB and 3 Su-27SM not working, should be transferred after repairs
East 7 Su-27SM not working, should be transferred to West after repairs
NAVY: 10 Su-27P and 3 Su-27UB waiting for more Su-27P of Besovets, Khotilovo or from repair plants.

Total 121 VVS and 13 Navy= 134 . If Su-27K (Su-33) is inlcluded then are 154

About the MiG-29 , excluding 50 Su-29SMT/UBT , are about 65-70 , hafl of them UB´s:
6 UB´s Lipestk
12 UB´s Kushchovskaya
14-16 Astrakhan
16 Kubinka
18 Yerevan

What I said

Good detail.

That's really not enough. But I think it's getting better as the production of Su-30 and 35 is now pretty fast and the 34 which replace the 24 has some air to air capabilities.

Do you have the prices of those upgrades ? SM2 is an upgrade or they build the Aircraft from the start ? I've read it is a new fighter with 35's component.

Mig-29SMT's in Syria for testing;

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2996657.html

AMCXXL wrote:
Total 121 VVS and 13 Navy= 134 . If Su-27K (Su-33) is inlcluded then are 154

About the MiG-29 , excluding 50 Su-29SMT/UBT , are about 65-70 , hafl of them UB´s

So 150 Flankers and 85 non-UB Fulcrums of which 30 or so are as good as garbage (or better suited for DACT rather that frontal aviation service).
OK that's a very low number of core fighters.

The 98 procured (or less due to accidents) Su-35s merely cover the withdrawal of Fulcrums and some earlier Flankers.
Leaving Russia with less than 300 proper fighters in a few years. Nicely done by the Ru MIC.

Maybe things for Royal Air Force with just 140 Eurofighter Typhoons aint that bad, considering their landmass vs. Russia's.

KiloGolf wrote:

AMCXXL wrote:
Total 121 VVS and 13 Navy= 134 . If Su-27K (Su-33) is inlcluded then are 154

About the MiG-29 , excluding 50 Su-29SMT/UBT , are about 65-70 , hafl of them UB´s

So 150 Flankers and 85 non-UB Fulcrums of which 30 or so are as good as garbage (or better suited for DACT rather that frontal aviation service).
OK that's a very low number of core fighters.

The 98 procured (or less due to accidents) Su-35s merely cover the withdrawal of Fulcrums and some earlier Flankers.
Leaving Russia with less than 300 proper fighters in a few years. Nicely done by the Ru MIC.

Maybe things for Royal Air Force with just 140 Eurofighter Typhoons aint that bad, considering their landmass vs. Russia's.

Well they have a S-300/400 for every Typhoon of the Royale air force so it's not that bad

Isos wrote:Well they have a S-300/400 for every Typhoon of the Royale air force so it's not that bad  

Oh yeah, they have S-300 in Russia (as they always did have SAMs), sure. But they also have a super low number of air superiority fighters (<300) according to their grand, master plan. That's not enough to cover European Russia, let alone Central Asia or the Far East.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:War in Yemen showed how goo d they are.  Besides why do you think Typhoon is better than Su-34 as BVR platform?  like I WW where dogfighting and 1-2-1 duels were done without netcentric warfare.

I don't think the Typhoon is better, but the Fullback has a different core mission, replace the Fencers and deliver the goods on the enemy's heads. Not to perform CAP and so on.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:War in Yemen showed how goo d they are.  Besides why do you think Typhoon is better than Su-34 as BVR platform?  like I WW where dogfighting and 1-2-1 duels were done without netcentric warfare.

I don't think the Typhoon is better, but the Fullback has a different core mission, replace the Fencers and deliver the goods on the enemy's heads. Not to perform CAP and so on.

Su-34 as BVR platform like in my previous post.   Su-34 can carry 8x R-77 and AWACS or Su-35 or MiG-31 can always show which direction to head Su34 isn't it

Well in bvr I would put my money on the typhoon againt the 34. With the meteor andits far smaller rcs and decent aesa it will be better for sur, unless the 34 is equiped for EW warefare mission then it can do good with IR 27 and 73 missiles.

KiloGolf wrote:

AMCXXL wrote:
Total 121 VVS and 13 Navy= 134 . If Su-27K (Su-33) is inlcluded then are 154

About the MiG-29 , excluding 50 Su-29SMT/UBT , are about 65-70 , hafl of them UB´s

So 150 Flankers and 85 non-UB Fulcrums of which 30 or so are as good as garbage (or better suited for DACT rather that frontal aviation service).
OK that's a very low number of core fighters.

The 98 procured (or less due to accidents) Su-35s merely cover the withdrawal of Fulcrums and some earlier Flankers.
Leaving Russia with less than 300 proper fighters in a few years. Nicely done by the Ru MIC.

Maybe things for Royal Air Force with just 140 Eurofighter Typhoons aint that bad, considering their landmass vs. Russia's.

You forgot to mention the 100 Su-30 SM/M2.

Why only include "air superiority" fighters, KiloGolf?

He are his estimates for 2025 from the Su-27 thread:

AMCXXL wrote:
2021-2025 54 planes per year:
12 Su-57
12 Su-35
18 SU-30SM
12 Su-34M


Then the total will be in 2025:
200 Su-34
240-250 Su-30SM (140-150 VKS & 100 in Navy)
166 Su-35
24 SU-27SM(3)
75 Su-57

705-720 planes
630-640 "Flankers"

In 2030:
200 SU-34
240-250 Su-30SM (140-150 VKS & 100 in Navy)
166-190 SU-35 (6 - 7 regiments)
135-165 Su-57 (5 regiments if 6th, then after 2030)

740-805 planes

And that doesn't even include 150 MiG-31BMs.

So he's not wrong. They don't actually need to upgrade those Su-27s. Sure, maybe they could be useful in 2020, but only five or so years later, not so much.

But if the Su-27SM3 gives the Su-27 similar capabilities to M2, then it's not bad at all. And if cost is very low, that's even better.