Cold War II_(US-West vs Russia/China tensions)

PapaDragon wrote:

DerWolf wrote:NATO drills indicate preparations for large-scale conflict — Russian General Staff
https://tass.com/defense/1100381

Us think that a conflict with Russia will only remain conventional, thats a bad way of thinking.

It will unless NATO manages to get upper hand and move in Russian territory... in which case it will be instant Dr. Strangelove

First Europe as a warning shot and if they don't back off USA mainland as well

They just keep forgetting what nukes are for...

There lot of isolated US bases that would be bigger and more valuable targets. A nuk in europe would end the war and the situation wouldn't change much, only a radioactive forest.

But if they nuk two or three US bases in Pacific that would strenghten Chinese positions as the new world leader.

I doubt if Americans and American politicians would really care about a tactical Russian strike against Europe... of course publicly they would be shocked and horrified for their allies, but behind closed doors they could care less because it was not US territory that was hit.

If NATO start something with Russia is makes the most sense for Russia to strike back at the head of NATO and that is the US.

I would think a conventional NATO attack on Russia would result in a nuclear response from Russia because I doubt they would expect to solve such a problem with conventional forces anyway.

Of course using MiG-31s with Kinzhal and destroying entire NATO fleets sent north to intervene would be satisfying...

Personally I would target all US bases in Europe but also major capital cities and population centres of countries with US bases in them as a punishment for allowing US forces into the region.

Russia bled a lot during WWII... lets make the Europeans and Americans bleed more of their fair share in WWIII...

kvs wrote:https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/we-could-cut-whole-relationship-war-words-between-trump-and-beijing-heating

Trumpy and the yanqui exceptionalist-stan are deluded about China's vulnerability.   China's GDP growth over most of the last
20 years has been driven by internal demand and not exports.   So attempts to cut China off from western export markets
will result in some pain but will lead to export and import substitution since China has the economic diversity and critical
mass to do this.   Just like the yanquis are utterly deluded about their BS sanctions cutting Russia off from precious western
capital and imports, they are deluded about the level of damage they can do to China.  

In fact, no western country can cut China off cold turkey.   It would take 10+ years just to rebuild all of the offshored industry.
But if China is cut off over a 10 year transition period, it can adjust its trade regime as well.   So the precious west is just
waving its dick around.

This is very true. I think the one country(there are many) that will fall on a sword of lies of the west is India. India disillusioned by Donald Dump, has saved up land twice the size of Luxembourg(they have kicked off a lot of people from their land and houses without giving the proper compensation), so western companies, that are "looking to move" from China, can "build their factories". This is bound to go badly for India because most Indian politicians are corrupt. India is also breaking off from BRICS and becoming a ally of the US. What Modi is trying to do is, sit on two chairs and in the end he will likely sit on neither.

You can't blame India for taking advantage of the situation between China and the US... those US companies are going to be moved out of China... and they wont be going to the US because of costs... they will be heading to India and Bangledesh and Malaysia and Thailand etc etc etc...

GarryB wrote:I doubt if Americans and American politicians would really care about a tactical Russian strike against Europe... of course publicly they would be shocked and horrified for their allies, but behind closed doors they could care less because it was not US territory that was hit.

If NATO start something with Russia is makes the most sense for Russia to strike back at the head of NATO and that is the US.

I would think a conventional NATO attack on Russia would result in a nuclear response from Russia because I doubt they would expect to solve such a problem with conventional forces anyway.

Of course using MiG-31s with Kinzhal and destroying entire NATO fleets sent north to intervene would be satisfying...

Personally I would target all US bases in Europe but also major capital cities and population centres of countries with US bases in them as a punishment for allowing US forces into the region.

Russia bled a lot during WWII... lets make the Europeans and Americans bleed more of their fair share in WWIII...

This is just a hypothetical question, would Americans and American politicians care, if Russia did a tactical strike on Israel, if Israel had attacked Russian bases in Syria?

GarryB wrote:You can't blame India for taking advantage of the situation between China and the US... those US companies are going to be moved out of China... and they wont be going to the US because of costs... they will be heading to India and Bangledesh and Malaysia and Thailand etc etc etc...

I am pretty sure that those companies will be moved out of China at some point. What do you think will the Chinese do in response? I am pretty sure they have been preparing for this but what do you think they will do?

"Just days after Mike Pompeo’s visit to “Israel”, the Chinese ambassador to “Israel” has been found dead."

https://twitter.com/Mahyar313/status/1261927065756057600

Chinese ambassador to Israel found dead at his residence



Information comes from Israel regarding the ambassador of the People's Republic of China. Local media report that the Chinese diplomatic representative was found dead this morning.


According to recent reports, Ambassador Du Wei was discovered without signs of life in his residence located in Herzliya. This is a resort town located near Tel Aviv.

It is noted that several ambulance crews and law enforcement officers arrived at the residence of the Chinese ambassador.

Journalists tried to find out what is the cause of the death of Du Wei.

At the moment, the official summary is as follows:

The Chinese ambassador to Israel died in a dream. The cause of his death was a heart attack.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry confirmed the death of the ambassador.

For reference:

Du Wei arrived in Israel as the new ambassador of China in early 2020. It is added that this arrival took place before the “officially recorded outbreak of coronavirus infection in Israel”. Data on whether 58-year-old Du Wei had heart problems was not available at this time.

Du Wei still has a spouse and a son. Their occupation is not reported. According to recent reports, a group of Chinese doctors went to Tel Aviv with whom Israeli colleagues should share data on the causes of the death of the Chinese ambassador.

https://topwar.ru/171314-posol-kitaja-v-izraile-obnaruzhen-mertvym-v-svoej-rezidencii.html

This is just a hypothetical question, would Americans and American politicians care, if Russia did a tactical strike on Israel, if Israel had attacked Russian bases in Syria?

Americans irrationally sympathise with Israel. Israel can intentionally attack a US ship and kill about 30-40 of the Sailors on board and injure another 130 or 140 and the US will do nothing about it.

If Iran looked at a US ship funny they would "return fire" in self defence...

I am pretty sure that those companies will be moved out of China at some point. What do you think will the Chinese do in response? I am pretty sure they have been preparing for this but what do you think they will do?

To be honest I think china has outgrown those companies anyway... they are never going to be chinese companies, so while they are an education on how a company can be successful and competitive in the long term they are foreign owned companies that compete with Chinese owned companies for market share at home and abroad.

The Chinese response should be to get behind the Chinese companies that do the same thing and support them internationally to replace these hostile western companies in the Chinese and international market.

Russia does not have a local Apple direct equivalent and therefore would be much better off with Huawei rather than the choice of Apple or nothing else. If there is a Russian direct equivalent then competition with Huawei is a win win because it challenges the Russian maker to work harder, but the competition is not so destructive and insidious to Russia as Apple is.... with their software and hardware backdoors for the CIA and NSA...

Trump represents the de-offshoring faction of the US elites. The MAGA slogan is not just vapid hot air. The globalist clowns thought
they could gain hundreds of millions of customers in China and India and the rest of the "developing" world and that throwing Americans
and Europeans under the bus was small price to pay. It turns out that Chinese and Indian companies put up show stopper competition
for those hundreds of millions of new consumers. At the same time the sweatshop profits that western transnationals were raking in
have started to decline substantially over the last 10 years as the natural evolution of development is raising wages in previously
dirt poor countries.

Trump is saying what he is saying to get votes.... he could care less about American workers... it is the 0.1% that control the US... he couldn't force Apple to come home any more than he could force the military to fix all the problems on the F-35 within budget...

Offshore production bypasses workers rights and payrate laws... you can wipe out more people than were directly killed by Chernobyl and get away scott free if you are a chemical company with a factory in India... it would have destroyed a lot of very rich families if that had happened in the US... instead they just folded up the company and there was no one left to sue or to take to court.

Following MAGA, western transnationals will be re-shoring production to America and western countries. India will not be the new offshore
paradise even if the workers make less money than in China. The globalist economics era is ending.

The problem is that looking at his other policies of better relations with Russia and bringing the troops home, I would not hold my breath regarding moving US tech companies workforce back to the US...

Ironically they have a problem with Porto Rico.... they should make it a tax free zone for the US companies operating there... it would solve the problems of the locals and the big companies...

"Just days after Mike Pompeo’s visit to “Israel”, the Chinese ambassador to “Israel” has been found dead."

When I read that I was expecting to see... Cause of death suspected to be suicide as the injuries... 6 stab wounds to the back, three gunshots to the heart and four to the head, with hands and feet amputated with the arms and legs bound... suggest suicide...

George1 wrote:

US and China have been involved in a Cold War for a while. Where time Pompeo open his mouth, I just want put something in it.

Ironically it is the US that sees itself as humanity... it is the super power... some even call it a hyper power.... pushing China away will seriously damage the US, and while China might feel some pains initially I think in the long term it will actually be really good for them to not become Americas bitch... to stand up to the bully....

In a article by Hillary Clinton, one thing that the US has and Russia and China does not have is, military bases overseas and vassal states.

And according to Hitlery Clinton, the US should/will use these bases and vassals against Russia and China.

How can Russia and China deal with these US bases and vassals states?

According to Hitlery Clinton, NATO will be used more against Russia and China, how can Russia and China deal with this?

Hillary Clinton – the “grey cardinal” and failed US President – published a program text in the authoritative American magazine “Foreign Policy”, which can and should be considered a real strategy of the American “deep state” in restoring American world hegemony.....

However, pointing to certain “Trumpian” changes in the democratic political discourse, it is impossible not to note the iron consistency in terms of maintaining a focus only on confrontation — judging by Mrs. Clinton’s text, the idea of peaceful coexistence with China and Russia, not to mention any substantive cooperation or detente, simply does not occur to her. Even diplomacy is perceived by the former head of the State Department primarily as a tool that provides a more convenient opportunity for forceful pressure. For example, when criticising the Trump administration for failing to work with allies, she cites the following example of proper diplomacy:

“A renewed commitment to diplomacy would strengthen the United States’ military position. U.S. alliances are an asset that neither China nor Russia can match, allowing Washington to project force around the world. When I was secretary of state, for example, we secured an agreement to base 2,500 U.S. marines in northern Australia, near the contested sea-lanes of the South China Sea.”

By and large, the world will see a reformatting of the tribute that the US is trying to shake out from its vassals, and if Trump (as a real businessman) preferred payment in the form of money (which is why Clinton accuses him of turning NATO into a “racketeer” business), the more refined approach of the Democratic establishment is that vassals will pay both in money and, so to speak, in kind – in the form of actions that can help the US gain some military advantages over China or Russia."

https://www.stalkerzone.org/clinton-publishes-americas-plan-for-peace-good-news-for-russia/

I used to think that physical expulsion of American bases from, say ME , was a way of securing peace in the region. Well, this is true only if the Americans use these bases for active operations.

Say in Iraq , they block a road into Syria . Or give support to extremists. Or assassinate an official. These are active operations. And removing them , would remove the immediate problem locally.

But they can be active in other ways. Say they hijack an oil Tanker on the High seas. So then, what good is it, that their base was removed from Iraq?

But if they suffered casualties as a result of their actions, at any location on Earth , then it does not matter as much, if they do or do not have bases in some country. They simply can not act with impunity.

So as well as having ability to strike locally against them. We must have ability to strike globally against them. Then their bases are useless. Out of action.

Iran needs to have ability to strike at America itself. With ICBM and with long range ship and submarines. This is far easier than trying to remove every American base, from region. Against wishes of local population. QED.

In a article by Hillary Clinton, one thing that the US has and Russia and China does not have is, military bases overseas and vassal states.

I can understand that bitch wanting Russia to repeat all the mistakes America made, but what exactly is in it for Russia to listen to her?

She has no interest in making Russia stronger or better... of course she is going to suggest they get a bloated military budget that does nothing for the defence of the country but certainly creates opportunities for certain people to line their pockets...

And according to Hitlery Clinton, the US should/will use these bases and vassals against Russia and China.

Which will lead to the countries that tolerate US forces on their territory to wonder why they continue to tolerate US forces there if they just want to stir up shit and poke the Bear and the Dragon.

Why listen to her... she has never been US president...

How can Russia and China deal with these US bases and vassals states?

By doing nothing and let idiots like Hillary encourage their misuse and abuse so they cost them even more to maintain and operate and keep them spread out and easy to attack from multiple directions and for lots of different reasons.

Bases around the world are bleeding the US of funds they could be using for other more urgent things like infrastructure in their own country or even making healthcare affordable and accessible...

Ignoring the needs of their own people to play their stupid game of thrones type battles with other countries will bite them in the ass... eventually the American people will realise they are the victims and are being played and that if they don't actually do something about it it will just continue until there is no money left and they will be left to pay the debts...

Which will lead to the countries that tolerate US forces on their territory to wonder why they continue to tolerate US forces there if they just want to stir up shit and poke the Bear and the Dragon.

Be careful with these perceptions, there are a lot of gullible people that are easily influenced by US/NATO propaganda. As an example, Germany, Japan, and South Korea have been hosting American military bases for decades, did the majority of the population questioned why their government tolerate US forces? and even when there are protests like the ones in Okinawa, these are miniscule events that are easily ignored both by the US and Puppet government of these vassal countries. In the Philippines, US bases have been kicked out in 1991, however, the US is quick to sign a treaty with the Philippine puppet government to allow rotational deployment of US military assets in the country, and according to polls, a huge majority of the Philippine population views the US positively, this is despite all the information out there exposing America as a fraud, warmongering, and corrupt entity. The election of Duterte who is anti US probably caught the Americans by surprise, but since he started office the Americans already activated their 5th column agents inside the country to disrupt his government. Duterte only has until 2022 and a new president will be elected, the US is already grooming their next puppet whom they can command to take on policies that will be hostile to China. Aquino (president from 2010 to 2016), who imposed a broad anti China policy is a good example of a US puppet. A month before the Philippine presidential election back in 2010, Time magazine made an article talking about how he can "SAVE" the country. It's like Time Magazine already knew that he will win the election

I think this belongs here.

We are still leaving 2k behind in Iraq and Afghan.

We are pulling thousands of men out of each country yes but it's not a total withdrawal, it's pretty much a moot point since I imagine Biden will just send them right back.

nomadski wrote:
I used to think that physical expulsion of American  bases from, say ME ,  was a way of securing  peace in the region. Well, this is true only if  the Americans use these bases  for active operations.

Say in Iraq ,  they  block  a road  into  Syria . Or give support to extremists. Or assassinate  an official. These are active operations. And removing them , would remove the immediate problem locally.

But they can be active in other ways. Say they hijack an oil Tanker on the High seas. So then, what good is it, that their base was removed from Iraq?

But if they suffered casualties as a result of their actions, at any location on Earth , then it does not  matter as much, if they do or do not have bases in some country. They simply can not act with impunity.

So as well as having ability to strike locally against them. We must have ability to strike globally against them. Then their bases are useless. Out of action.

Iran needs to have ability to strike at America itself. With ICBM and with long range ship and submarines. This is far easier than trying to remove every American base, from region. Against wishes of local population. QED.

What you are saying is true nut only a few countries have the ability to hit anywhere in the world, it is very hard to acquire this technology.

GarryB wrote:

In a article by Hillary Clinton, one thing that the US has and Russia and China does not have is, military bases overseas and vassal states.

I can understand that bitch wanting Russia to repeat all the mistakes America made, but what exactly is in it for Russia to listen to her?

She has no interest in making Russia stronger or better... of course she is going to suggest they get a bloated military budget that does nothing for the defence of the country but certainly creates opportunities for certain people to line their pockets...

And according to Hitlery Clinton, the US should/will use these bases and vassals against Russia and China.

Which will lead to the countries that tolerate US forces on their territory to wonder why they continue to tolerate US forces there if they just want to stir up shit and poke the Bear and the Dragon.

Why listen to her... she has never been US president...  

How can Russia and China deal with these US bases and vassals states?

By doing nothing and let idiots like Hillary encourage their misuse and abuse so they cost them even more to maintain and operate and keep them spread out and easy to attack from multiple directions and for lots of different reasons.

Bases around the world are bleeding the US of funds they could be using for other more urgent things like infrastructure in their own country or even making healthcare affordable and accessible...

Ignoring the needs of their own people to play their stupid game of thrones type battles with other countries will bite them in the ass... eventually the American people will realise they are the victims and are being played and that if they don't actually do something about it it will just continue until there is no money left and they will be left to pay the debts...

Good points Garry, the one thing that Russia and China should be doing is, they should be working(like the US does), is set up their propaganda against NATO militaries.

One place they should target is the veterans of the NATO militaries, after service most live shitty lives, some are homeless, some are drug addicted and some struggle to make simple ends meet and they get no support from the governement.

Here in Canada there are veterans that cannot afford groceries, they have to rely on Legion(a veteran help house), I know a veteran whose electricity was about to be cut off and he got some support from the Legion.

While the refugees and the migrants are getting free money and free everything, the veterans in NATO get nothing(kind of karma), this is something that should be targeted.

PhSt wrote:

Which will lead to the countries that tolerate US forces on their territory to wonder why they continue to tolerate US forces there if they just want to stir up shit and poke the Bear and the Dragon.

Be careful with these perceptions, there are a lot of gullible people that are easily influenced by US/NATO propaganda. As an example, Germany, Japan, and South Korea have been hosting American military bases for decades, did the majority of the population questioned why their government tolerate US forces? and even when there are protests like the ones in Okinawa, these are miniscule events that are easily ignored both by the US and Puppet government of these vassal countries. In the Philippines, US bases have been kicked out in 1991, however, the US is quick to sign a treaty with the Philippine puppet government to allow rotational deployment of US military assets in the country, and according to polls, a huge majority of the Philippine population views the US positively, this is despite all the information out there exposing America as a fraud, warmongering, and corrupt entity. The election of Duterte who is anti US probably caught the Americans by surprise, but since he started office the Americans already activated their 5th column agents inside the country to disrupt his government. Duterte only has until 2022 and a new president will be elected, the US is already grooming their next puppet whom they can command to take on policies that will be hostile to China. Aquino (president from 2010 to 2016), who imposed a broad anti China policy is a good example of a US puppet. A month before the Philippine presidential election back in 2010, Time magazine made an article talking about how he can "SAVE" the country. It's like Time Magazine already knew that he will win the election

The way to deal with this, to squeeze them economically.