Cold War II_(US-West vs Russia/China tensions)

Future conflict between USA and Russia/China? I think if America continues to act aggressive toward Russia that Russia will react violently.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/09/08/laughing-way-armageddon-paul-craig-roberts/

Putin is not stupid enough to start an armed conflict with the US.... he knows there would be no winner there.

Can't say I trust Trump wont do something stupid though...

GarryB wrote:Putin is not stupid enough to start an armed conflict with the US.... he knows there would be no winner there.

Can't say I trust Trump wont do something stupid though...

I agree. He has been "turned". Various "experts" from the Pentagon must have convinced him that the US ABM has rendered
the Russian nuclear arsenal impotent. What a sick joke! But such is the rot in modern day Rome. History repeats itself
in all the aspects that matter.

I think the lack of shooting down NK missiles over Japan and the fact NK keeps launching missiles is a wake up call to most in America that they have been duped. Trump, Nickie Hailey, McMaster and the like shot their mouths off and exposed themselves far too early and showed their hands at the start. They didn't expect someone to call them out on their bluff. Examples would be Trump and crews claims of the aircraft carriers headed to NK. In the end, they didn't make it there. Then it was about how they will shoot down NK missiles that they (NK) test, then moved THAAD and SM-3 to Japan. No missiles were shot down since. That was when NK called out US' bluff. Now the next bluff is that "we will destroy NK if they attack our allies" and "we have the capabilities, we just can't say how, on neutralizing NK threat before they can retaliate against South Korea or Japan". We of course know that they don't. In today's age of technology, nothing is secret. And in the end, even with all the Tomahawks and Minutemen that they have to devastate NK, we know, they know, everyone knows NK has a ridiculous amount of hidden bunkers, tunnels and bases underground and its mountainous regions which act as natural protection. We know Iran has underground missile facilities, well it is guaranteed so does NK. In this regard, there is no guarantee the US can strike NK without any blowback from NK towards SKorea and Japan. Because if there wouldn't be, and US was certain, then they would have already done the attack. So that is their latest bluff.

The best part of all of this is that now this becomes obvious to everyone. What US blunder with running their mouth has done is got China and Russia closer, gave NK guarantee that having Nukes is the ultimate decision and that they will not end up like Libya and Iraq by having them, and gave Russia prime realization that the US is a lot weaker than they make themselves out to be. Of course they already knew that before hand, but this time the US has shown it by exposing itself.

The only danger here though is that US may talk itself into a corner (already has) and may lash out and cause a real conflict. But if they do it, it will be against North Korea cause they will hedge their bets against them rather than Russia or China because they know the other two are far better equipped and prepared.

Only trump card the US has left is Ukraine, and that is against Russia. But they know that card is more of a wild card and could work against them too.

I agree with most of your assessment, but Ukraine is a failed state nothing. By leaving it alone (with the exception of assisting
the Donbass), Russia is following a policy that has neutered Washington's "trump card". Washington and its EU minions really
thought Russia would invade Ukraine. That would have been a serious quagmire and would have given NATO the ultimate
raison d'etre. Letting the retards in Kiev huff and puff while the economy flushes into the toilet is an epic counter-measure.
I seriously doubt Ukraine will attack Russia (including Crimea). They are so pathetically weak that they have zero chances of
even moving enough men across the border.

You mentioned that supposedly Ukraine will see a 2% GDP growth in 2017. This has got to be one of the biggest frauds ever.
Ukraine's economy has to be shrinking since it is de-industrializing fast (Antonov, Motor-Sich, Zorya-Stroimash, etc). There
is no way that agriculture and IT (games development) can be growing fast enough to offset these losses. And then we have
the importing of coal. That is a major negative hit on the GDP but it entails falling production and power generation which
amplify the GDP drop. A credible GDP growth figure would be between -5% and -10%.

As Ukraine's GDP shrivels up, the power of the Kiev regime does too. I think that sometime in the next 10 years there will
be a counter-coup.

kvs wrote:I agree with most of your assessment, but Ukraine is a failed state nothing.    By leaving it alone (with the exception of assisting
the Donbass), Russia is following a policy that has neutered Washington's "trump card".    Washington and its EU minions really
thought Russia would invade Ukraine.   That would have been a serious quagmire and would have given NATO the ultimate
raison d'etre.    Letting the retards in Kiev huff and puff while the economy flushes into the toilet is an epic counter-measure.
I seriously doubt Ukraine will attack Russia (including Crimea).   They are so pathetically weak that they have zero chances of
even moving enough men across the border.  

You mentioned that supposedly Ukraine will see a 2% GDP growth in 2017.   This has got to be one of the biggest frauds ever.
Ukraine's economy has to be shrinking since it is de-industrializing fast (Antonov, Motor-Sich, Zorya-Stroimash, etc).   There
is no way that agriculture and IT (games development) can be growing fast enough to offset these losses.   And then we have
the importing of coal.   That is a major negative hit on the GDP but it entails falling production and power generation which
amplify the GDP drop.   A credible GDP growth figure would be between -5% and -10%.

As Ukraine's GDP shrivels up, the power of the Kiev regime does too.   I think that sometime in the next 10 years there will
be a counter-coup.      

that's why I said GDP calculations are obsolete and do not reflect the reality on the ground of the countries well being.

The amount of Ukrainian land being sold to foreign private companies is rather large, so I am assuming they added those numbers to their GDP growth in froms of "FDI", but essentially, it is removing your own land from your own structure into someone else's. Ukraine can be a headache for Russia if they do decide to attack if given OK from US (Georgia did), but that conflict won't work in Ukraine's favor. Issue is still it would cause death.

We are entering a time now were we may see a massive transition to a real multipolar world were we no longer see USD as a trading currency outside of deals without US involvement. We may see countries once again doing their own business relations regardless what someone else says or thinks. US is losing its touch because they didn't forsee China doing its own thing. They figured they could make China like Japan - a vassal.

US could nation build Ukraine, but it will be difficult due to corruption. And this is what I fear may happen - US will allow murders to continue till they have sufficient people left in charge, and then build these people up and then ultimately take full control of Ukraine's economy and well, turn Ukraine into its true vassal like Japan and South Korea.

Yeah.... If the US can't fix itself why would anyone think they could fix the Ukraine?

They fixed Japan and Germany by investing a lot of money on new infrastructure and factories and got the people working... the clay they had to work with was rather different... and the money from Europe had just pretty much been transfered to the US to pay for the damage WWII had just caused.

I doubt the Americans who voted Trump in will stand for him fixing the Ukraine and not the US...

This why all the crap is happening with UK.

https://www.rt.com/news/421316-russia-uk-may-unsc/

Said MP is from communist party. As well, Russia can't be kicked out unless China votes in favor of such.

NATO is a joke, sick joke. Some evidence free accusations are supposed to be the basis for kicking on of the nuclear major powers off the
Security Council? NATO must take the rest of the world to be composed of idiots. China will definitely veto any NATO lynch mob effort
such as this. I also doubt that the general assembly would vote in favour.

Yeah, that's nothing new.

And this is my opinion about the whole incident, originally posted on A. Karlin's blog:

IMO, in a nutshell, either you believe the very often repeated Russophobic myth that Russia/Putler has murdered masses of “Kremlin critics” over the years. Then it’s of course quite easy to believe that Russia was behind this incident as well.

Or you actually know that it’s statistically nonsense, as Anatoly has showed (sadly, I think even many non-Russophobes are unaware of that) and it doesn’t make any sense overall. (Not to mention the timing, of course.) Putin received less than 70% of the votes in 2012, so while the level of Russian authoritarianism can certainly be debated, the country is obviously not a “dictatorship” of any kind.

Even now, there are probably tens of millions of “Putin critics” in Russia, so killing some random few journalists and “ex-agents” makes as much sense in the real world as Russia brainwashing millions of American and Europeans into voting for Trump and the “far-right”.

So the narrative that the Dark Lord kills "dissidents" is simply not true and it actually makes no sense. And the timing is ridiculous.

This why all the crap is happening with UK.

Clearly the UK wants it this way...

For one to be kicked out of the UN security Council, Russia also has to vote themselves out. Which is unlikely. It would also be unlikely China would vote Russia out cause they know they are in the crosshairs as well.

miketheterrible wrote:For one to be kicked out of the UN security Council, Russia also has to vote themselves out.  Which is unlikely.  It would also be unlikely China would vote Russia out cause they know they are in the crosshairs as well.

Exactly. The US and its vassals are not harrassing China too much because Russia is the "number one" enemy. If Russia falls, the Chinese know they are next and will receive all the blows Russia is taking now from all directions. That is why they help Russia, so this country can continue standing and taking all the blows while China develops, enriches and gets military stronger.

Russia is under intensified economic, political and cultural attacks and by the looks of it NATO is determined to push forward until Russia is completely destroyed, this time for real.

* Economic sanctions
* Accusation of election meddling in US, Europe, Mexico, etc
* Accusation of political assassination (skripal), chemical massacre (syria), supporting terrorists (taliban)
* Accusation of sonic attacks (cuba, china)
* Getting banned from international sports
* Space program sabotage
* Dismemberment of Russian church (ukraine)
* Demonization of Russia and Russians

I'm sure there is more to add in this list, but its absolutely clear that NATO is working double time to bring Russia to its knees, perhaps they are beginning to realize that the fall of the Soviet Union is an unfinished job since Russia is still capable of thwarting US/NATO attempts to impose their will across the world, Now NATO has decided to Finish the job once and for all. Tremendous pressure is being piled on Russia, how will this play out? Sanctions continue and will only increase in intensity, I dont see any reversal of this economic attack against Russia, Putin and his government needs to come up with a decisive solution out of this quagmire.

Nibiru wrote:Russia is under intensified economic, political and cultural attacks and by the looks of it NATO is determined to push forward until Russia is completely destroyed, this time for real.

* Economic sanctions
* Accusation of election meddling in US, Europe, Mexico, etc
* Accusation of political assassination (skripal), chemical massacre (syria), supporting terrorists (taliban)
* Accusation of sonic attacks (cuba, china)
* Getting banned from international sports
* Space program sabotage
* Dismemberment of Russian church (ukraine)
* Demonization of Russia and Russians

I'm sure there is more to add in this list, but its absolutely clear that NATO is working double time to bring Russia to its knees, perhaps they are beginning to realize that the fall of the Soviet Union is an unfinished job since Russia is still capable of thwarting US/NATO attempts to impose their will across the world, Now NATO has decided to Finish the job once and for all. Tremendous pressure is being piled on Russia, how will this play out? Sanctions continue and will only increase in intensity, I dont see any reversal of this economic attack against Russia, Putin and his government needs to come up with a decisive solution out of this quagmire.

I would say, their attacks are pretty useless and stupid.

Results?

Russia's economy is growing
Russia's exports are growing
Diversification of Russia's economy has intensified
Increase in trade with Asia
More investments within Russia and Russia's diversifying investments outside
More Russians returning home and more Russian's parking their money at home
More foreigners coming to Russia for tourism so they spend their money in Russia

US is shooting itself in the foot. Same with NATO. NATO doesn't even constitute 1/3 of the world. If they want to burn their bridges, let them. Russia doesn't need to do anything more special than they are doing now. Other than just keep jabbing at US and be a thorn in their behind. Like Iran does.

If they want to go to war with Russia, since it is their only option left, let them. It just wont work out how they want it to.

best way to deal with america is ditching the dollar ... China has just under $1.2 trillion in US debt bonds and around $3.1 trillion in US currency ... if China wanted to it could send the US economy into turmoil

The Chinese made a threat that the US wont like how China reacts to US sanctions against China for buying Su-35 and S-400 systems... it is weirdly hypnotic watching a child smack a hornets nest with a stick...

As with the original Cold War, the Democraps are leading the charge. Freaking lunatics.

NATO drills indicate preparations for large-scale conflict — Russian General Staff
https://tass.com/defense/1100381

Us think that a conflict with Russia will only remain conventional, thats a bad way of thinking.