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91 posters

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:04 am

    If it wanted...???

    So what you are actually saying is that weapons development and integration is not about testing and solutions, it is about wants and throwing money at problems?

    Microsoft still can't put out an operating system that is bug free and in comparison a modern warship with all new components is orders of magnitude more complex with millions of interactions.

    Gorshkov is delayed because it is not ready for service yet and apart from you whiny fanbois complaining because it is taking too long, what other reason do they have to rush it into service not ready?

    Sometimes there are no adequate or obvious solutions and a vessel enters service with problems.

    Look at the front end of the Kiev class carriers... they kept changing them to get the airflow over the air strip sorted out, but that was a different time.
    if they are going to make 20 or so Gorshkovs then it makes sense to get the first one right and working before making another 19 the same.

    These are Frigates and will not lead the fight against NATO... the Yars will do that and its funding and performance seem to be just fine.

    It is not even just a question of getting all the systems and sensors working together, they also have to tweek them so they are working as good as they can and then actually getting them into production so they can be ready to make them for the serially produced ships.
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    Post  Flyingdutchman Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:15 pm

    How many Gorshkovs would be part of a typical strike group in the near future?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:03 am

    I would suggest it strongly depends on what other platforms are available... a full strength Russian Navy would likely take few Frigates with a surface action group as they would limit their range and speed.
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    Post  calripson Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:37 am

    What is the deal with this ship ? You could build the pyramids in the time it takes to complete it. Is it ever going to get commissioned ?
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    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:38 am

    No, it is never going to be commissioned... it is a big hoax.

    this is a frigate... there is no enormous hurry for such vessels, though getting them into service would be a very good thing, as they could retire a lot of older vessels when these ships are operational.

    it will save a lot of money to just get the first vessel right 100% so that few changes are needed with later models.

    I suspect they wont put any ship in mass production any time soon till they have the gas turbines produced in Russia ready for mass production too.
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    Post  TheArmenian Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:02 am

    The gun for Gorshkov has finally arrived.

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 10 Attachment.php?item=406014&download=2&type=

    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:20 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:The gun for Gorshkov has finally arrived.

    About time!
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    Post  zg18 Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:54 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:The gun for Gorshkov has finally arrived.

    Finally!
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    Post  EKS Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:56 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:The gun for Gorshkov has finally arrived.

    About time!

    Finally! Well, it will be the moment of the truth. What was the main cause of the delay?

    I hope that with the main gun installed, the vessel will be fit for service.
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    Post  zg18 Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:00 pm

    EKS wrote:Finally! Well, it will be the moment of the truth. What was the main cause of the delay?

    I hope that with the main gun installed, the vessel will be fit for service.

    AFAIK gun had problems with stability during development , even with the gun , ship will have to undergo state trials before it`s really fit for service. It can take time because Gorshkov is really first big ship with new post-Soviet tech.
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:19 am

    zg18 wrote:
    EKS wrote:Finally! Well, it will be the moment of the truth. What was the main cause of the delay?

    I hope that with the main gun installed, the vessel will be fit for service.

    AFAIK gun had problems with stability during development , even with the gun , ship will have to undergo state trials before it`s really fit for service. It can take time because Gorshkov is really first big ship with new post-Soviet tech.

    At least it has had time to "mature" during these gun delays... It should pass trials in a breeze.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:54 am

    the important thing is that this will be a standard gun for Frigates.

    We don't know whether the 152mm calibre gun is for destroyers or only for cruisers, so for now if this gun passes its tests and performs as hoped they will put it into serial production and be able to pump out ships at a much faster rate with a much shorter trials period and much faster production.
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    Post  Mike E Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:44 am

    GarryB wrote:the important thing is that this will be a standard gun for Frigates.

    We don't know whether the 152mm calibre gun is for destroyers or only for cruisers, so for now if this gun passes its tests and performs as hoped they will put it into serial production and be able to pump out ships at a much faster rate with a much shorter trials period and much faster production.
    That too. No more delays!
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    Post  Austin Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:33 am

    More details on Groshkov gun 


    Installation - made in the body with a reduced radar signature (stealth), two versions of configuration - with automatic and manual feeding of ammunition. Cooling trunk pumping seawater through the bore in between shooting. Ammunition - 60 vystrelov.TTH tools:
    Round weight - 52.8 kg
    Projectile weight - 33.4 kg
    Range:
    - 23 km (by sea and ground targets)
    - 18 km (air targets)
    Rate of combat - ok.30 rounds / min
    Continuous turn - to 45 rounds.
    Barrel life - 2500 shots
    Ammunition:
    - Normal - similar to the AK-130 Munitions
    - Managed - firing on coastal and sea targets - as of 2011, the media reports confirmed that the development of guided missiles for the installation is carried out. The development of the guided weapons for artillery caliber 100 and 130 mm begun in the 1980s (ist. - More about the plans of the Navy ...) .Sistema control and guidance - OMS "Puma" 5P-10 with a television sighting (export version - 5P-10E) from the radar and the external opto-electronic module based on a gyro-stabilized platform GOES-140. Developed in KB "Amethyst". Automated control and monitoring. The complex can simultaneously track 4 targets with automatic generation of data-fire on the two most menacing of them. On TFR Ave. 20380 installed modification MSA-5P 10-02 channel without detection purposes (antenna under the fairing on the design of the antenna post).
    Detection range - up to 60 km
    Response time:
    - Air goal - to 5 seconds
    - Surfaced / coast goal - 10-15 seconds
    The transfer time to fire another goal in the stream - 1 sec
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    Post  zg18 Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:31 pm

    A-192M 130mm for "Gorshkov" Smile

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 10 HqCsKRVl


    Hi-Res image

    https://i.imgur.com/g83O2Dg.jpg
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    Post  Austin Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:38 pm

    Whats good about this gun compared to talwar class ?
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    Post  zg18 Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:51 pm

    Austin wrote:Whats good about this gun compared to talwar class ?

    Simply more firepower. A-190 for Talwar and Grigorovich class is 100 mm , while A-192M for Gorshkov class is 130 mm

    Third project 22350 Admiral Golovko , laid down in Feb. 1st 2012

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 10 Kg65Dvol


    Hi-Res

    https://i.imgur.com/kg65Dvo.jpg
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:40 pm

    zg18 wrote:A-192M 130mm for "Gorshkov" Smile

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 10 HqCsKRVl


    Hi-Res image

    https://i.imgur.com/g83O2Dg.jpg
    Wow, sure is a looker'!
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    Post  Mike E Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:41 pm

    zg18 wrote:
    Austin wrote:Whats good about this gun compared to talwar class ?

    Simply more firepower. A-190 for Talwar and Grigorovich class is 100 mm , while A-192M for Gorshkov class is 130 mm

    Third project 22350 Admiral Golovko , laid down in Feb. 1st 2012

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 10 Kg65Dvol


    Hi-Res

    https://i.imgur.com/kg65Dvo.jpg
    What is the ETA? 2017?
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    Post  medo Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:23 pm

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 10 Gorshk10

    It seems Gorshkov will soon start with tests.
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    Post  Mike E Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:25 pm

    russia

    Looks great, can't wait to see her in action!
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:47 am

    She does look great... but I hope she does not see action for a while.
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:55 am

    You mean *combat*, right?
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    Post  Vann7 Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:39 am

    zg18 wrote:A-192M 130mm for "Gorshkov" Smile

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 10 HqCsKRVl


    Hi-Res image

    https://i.imgur.com/g83O2Dg.jpg


    Whats the use of this guns?

    For attacking pirates? I cannot imagine any event that such gun will be used in combat against a major modern navy.. Is not like a Kashtan gatlin gun that can counter cruise missiles. attacks of modern navies are done are beyond visual range.  And the Gun do not looks like could be used as Artillery in support for troops.. Far much better will have been a Rail Gun with 200km range.. it can also be used to shutdown planes or as artillery at far distances for ground troops support.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:30 pm

    The 130mm calibre guns fire guided shells that could be used against ground and air and sea targets.

    If you want a large fishing trawler to stop 30mm cannon shells will do nothing... an anti ship missile is over kill... a few 130mm shells in the water behind the vessel will stop it quickly enough with a low chance of actually killing anyone.

    enemy ground forces can also be quite dangerous... a tank sitting on a beach can hit an object the size of a frigate out to enormous ranges... with guided shells this frigate can shoot back.

    Why not a rail gun?

    Because they don't exist yet in an operational form... you might as well ask why they put cruise missile launchers on board when they could put laser cannons.

    A gun is a very versatile and cheap weapon that can take on a range of targets and can deliver a warning shot... unlike missiles.

    Don't forget this vessel will spend a lot of time in coastal areas where radar coverage is effected by local terrain and various targets can suddenly appear.

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