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Couldn't have they just put the gorshkov for early shakedown cruises, missile and electronic trials and crew trials before that extremely secondary piece of equipment was installed? This could've been efficiently saved time for commissioning the ship into the navy.
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91 posters
Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov
KomissarBojanchev- Posts : 1429
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Big_Gazza- Posts : 4901
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KomissarBojanchev wrote:Couldn't have they just put the gorshkov for early shakedown cruises, missile and electronic trials and crew trials before that extremely secondary piece of equipment was installed? This could've been efficiently saved time for commissioning the ship into the navy.
They may be using the extra time constructively, such as extra pre-commissioning and integration testing of the propulsion, navigation, weapon systems, radars, battle management systems etc. I know from first hand experience that delays in a project can be a godsend for systems engineers trying to deliver to a deadline and needing more time to get things working properly (as long as the delay isn't caused by your own piece of kit that is
)
Vympel- Posts : 147
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That is all.
GarryB- Posts : 40546
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Nice... Degaussing...
Mike E- Posts : 2619
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Location : Bay Area, CA
Deperming* - An interesting process, I wonder how long it takes for its effects to wear off...GarryB wrote:Nice... Degaussing...
GarryB- Posts : 40546
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Location : New Zealand
I would suspect it would depend on the size of the vessel... the amount of magnetic metals used in its construction, and where the ship goes.
Of course the degaussing procedure can be repeated when needed...
Of course the degaussing procedure can be repeated when needed...
medo- Posts : 4343
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Not the best resolution picture, but I think the highest balls in the line of ESM modules on radar mast looks like DIRCM balls on Ka-52 helicopter. Those are bigger and most probably more powerful (laser?) than those on helicopter. They would be useful for protecting ship against modern western AShMs with TV, IIR homing heads.
Vympel- Posts : 147
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Join date : 2013-01-30
Does Palash on the Gorshkov have missiles, or is it the gun only variant?
Mike E- Posts : 2619
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Sources that I've found tend to say that they will be equipped with missiles.Vympel wrote:Does Palash on the Gorshkov have missiles, or is it the gun only variant?
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
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Vympel wrote:Does Palash on the Gorshkov have missiles, or is it the gun only variant?
According to models like the following one, they should have missiles. Of course, none of the pictures show the ship using the variants with automatic missile loading subsystems (these variants of Palash have never been shown publicly, AFAIK).
Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:32 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixing a typo.)
Mike E- Posts : 2619
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Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
Now that missiles are confirmed, will the Gorshkovs be equipped with the Pantsir in the future? - They are already in production, or at least getting ready for it.
Also, funny that they chose to mount Palma replicas on that model ship instead of the actual Palash...
Also, funny that they chose to mount Palma replicas on that model ship instead of the actual Palash...
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
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Mike E wrote:Now that missiles are confirmed, will the Gorshkovs be equipped with the Pantsir in the future? - They are already in production, or at least getting ready for it.
Based on the ship design features, the choice of this light variant of Palash should probably be final; so I think they wouldn't introduce Pantsir'-M in this class.
Mike E wrote:Also, funny that they chose to mount Palma replicas on that model ship instead of the actual Palash...
Why do you thing they are showing Pal'ma there. It looks like Palash to me.
Can you please elaborate?
Mike E- Posts : 2619
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Join date : 2014-06-19
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You're probably right.... Bummer, as the naval Pantsir would be great on the Gorshkovs. - Not to say the Palash is bad, but the Pantsir-M appears to be a pretty substantial upgrade over it. It would as help with commonality between ships.Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Mike E wrote:Now that missiles are confirmed, will the Gorshkovs be equipped with the Pantsir in the future? - They are already in production, or at least getting ready for it.
Based on the ship design features, the choice of this light variant of Palash should probably be final; so I think they wouldn't introduce Pantsir'-M in this class.Mike E wrote:Also, funny that they chose to mount Palma replicas on that model ship instead of the actual Palash...
Why do you thing they are showing Pal'ma there. It looks like Palash to me.
Can you please elaborate?
My bad, I got mixed up because of all the variants...
Vympel- Posts : 147
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Bigger pic:
GarryB- Posts : 40546
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Palash doesn't have missile reloads and only carries 8 ready to launch missiles.
On the positive side it is cheaper and does not take up decks below the main deck it is mounted on.
A while back on another naval thread there were pictures of EO balls for mounting on the masts of ships that included laser target marking systems.
especially with vessels carrying 57mm guns with laser homing shells I would suspect a few EO turrets around the place to mark targets and to perhaps dazzle others.
On the positive side it is cheaper and does not take up decks below the main deck it is mounted on.
Not the best resolution picture, but I think the highest balls in the line of ESM modules on radar mast looks like DIRCM balls on Ka-52 helicopter. Those are bigger and most probably more powerful (laser?) than those on helicopter. They would be useful for protecting ship against modern western AShMs with TV, IIR homing heads.
A while back on another naval thread there were pictures of EO balls for mounting on the masts of ships that included laser target marking systems.
especially with vessels carrying 57mm guns with laser homing shells I would suspect a few EO turrets around the place to mark targets and to perhaps dazzle others.
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
Points : 2032
Join date : 2013-05-20
GarryB wrote:Palash doesn't have missile reloads and only carries 8 ready to launch missiles.
Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:... the variants with automatic missile loading subsystems (these variants of Palash have never been shown publicly, AFAIK).
Vympel- Posts : 147
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Join date : 2013-01-30
So pretty.
calripson- Posts : 753
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Join date : 2013-10-26
What is the timeline to commissioning from degaussing ? Also, what is the status of the next in line ship Admiral Kasatonov ? When should she be launched ? They should have the kinks worked out on the subcontractors.
Mike E- Posts : 2619
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Join date : 2014-06-19
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Bummer... But 8 is still a decent number considering that there are two systems... Doesn't it carry extra missiles below deck that the crew can reload?GarryB wrote:Palash doesn't have missile reloads and only carries 8 ready to launch missiles.
On the positive side it is cheaper and does not take up decks below the main deck it is mounted on.
Not the best resolution picture, but I think the highest balls in the line of ESM modules on radar mast looks like DIRCM balls on Ka-52 helicopter. Those are bigger and most probably more powerful (laser?) than those on helicopter. They would be useful for protecting ship against modern western AShMs with TV, IIR homing heads.
A while back on another naval thread there were pictures of EO balls for mounting on the masts of ships that included laser target marking systems.
especially with vessels carrying 57mm guns with laser homing shells I would suspect a few EO turrets around the place to mark targets and to perhaps dazzle others.
True...
GarryB- Posts : 40546
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The whole idea behind the Palash/Palma system is that it is cheap and simple... no expensive MMW radar and CM wave radar like Kashtan/Pantsir, and no deck penetration for reloads.
If they are going to use another deck for a missile reload system they might has well use the much longer range much more potent Pantsir, which has better all weather day night capability and twice the missile range.
Now that the gun seems to be OK I suspect they should be able to start relatively fast serial production of these Frigates.
Of course we don't know how the Redut system is coming along...
If they are going to use another deck for a missile reload system they might has well use the much longer range much more potent Pantsir, which has better all weather day night capability and twice the missile range.
Now that the gun seems to be OK I suspect they should be able to start relatively fast serial production of these Frigates.
Of course we don't know how the Redut system is coming along...
Mike E- Posts : 2619
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Agreed, and it is great for a frigate-sized model.GarryB wrote:The whole idea behind the Palash/Palma system is that it is cheap and simple... no expensive MMW radar and CM wave radar like Kashtan/Pantsir, and no deck penetration for reloads.
If they are going to use another deck for a missile reload system they might has well use the much longer range much more potent Pantsir, which has better all weather day night capability and twice the missile range.
Now that the gun seems to be OK I suspect they should be able to start relatively fast serial production of these Frigates.
Of course we don't know how the Redut system is coming along...
That is what I was thinking about... I assume they could modify the newer models to incorporate the Pantsir, which would be a huge upgrade...
Yep, can't wait to see them produced faster! I'm hoping that increased production rate, and the lower cost because of that, will gather more orders for it. The Krivaks work great, but their obsolescence in approaching (~2030 IMHO). Plus the Gorshkov can be used *like* a destroyer, because of its rather large offensive weapon suite (For comparison, the new 7,500 t Indian Kolkata destroyer has 32 AD VLS cells, and 16 cruise missile cells, sound familiar?). Anyway, I actually do expect more orders, especially because of the ever increasing budget. - What do you think GarryB?
I'd assume it is doing fine... Cells are one of the simplest systems on board, even with the software included.
KomissarBojanchev- Posts : 1429
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IMO no russian ship deserves to use a palash. It should only be reserved for export model downgrades.
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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KomissarBojanchev wrote:IMO no russian ship deserves to use a palash. It should only be reserved for export model downgrades.
The reason why MOD orders it is that it's a cheap and simple CIWS upgrade that can be bolted on, and it's a laser-beam-riding missile...which makes it extremely difficult to jam.
Mike E- Posts : 2619
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Why? It is still a capable system, and is probably a domestic model of some sort.... It carries *enough* missiles, and the kill probability has been estimated to be upwards of 95%.KomissarBojanchev wrote:IMO no russian ship deserves to use a palash. It should only be reserved for export model downgrades.
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
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