Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

Benya wrote:Russian Navy to receive 1st Project 22350 Frigate Admiral Gorshkov in first half of 2017

The Project 22350 lead frigate Admiral Gorshkov will be delivered to Russia’s Navy in the first half of 2017, Navy Chief-of-Staff Vice-Admiral Andrei Volozhinsky said.

Project 22350 lead frigate Admiral Gorshkov in St. Petersburg in October 2016

"Shipyards always face difficulties when they develop vessels, especially lead ships. However, this task will be accomplished within the next several months. I am glad that there are no time limits. Thorough work is under way so that the Navy receives a perfect finished ship," Volozhinsky said.

It was reported in November that the frigate Admiral Gorshkov had completed its state trials but the decision on its joining the Navy would be taken only after all its systems were checked.

The Project 22350 lead frigate Admiral Gorshkov was laid down in early 2006 and put afloat in the autumn of 2010. The ship started undergoing trials in November 2014. The second Project 22350 frigate Admiral Kasatonov was floated out in 2014. The third frigate Admiral Golovko is expected to be put afloat in 2017.

The Project 22350 frigate has a displacement of 4,500 tons and a speed of 29 knots. The frigate is armed with Oniks (NATO reporting name: SS-N-26 Strobile) and Kalibr (SS-N-27 Sizzler) missiles and the Poliment-Redut air defense missile system.

Source: http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2016/december-2016-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/4745-russian-navy-to-receive-1st-project-22350-frigate-admiral-gorshkov-in-first-half-of-2017.html

Really? ANOTHER delay going on eleven years now.

Yeah, of course it is vastly more important to get ships into service on time because those times were set by god and must be adhered to within the strict bounds of religion and mother nature.

Then again putting a vessel into service just to meet a deadline that has no other meaning than being an arbitrarily date based on guesses of how long everything takes that did not take into account unforseen problems with the engines and the 130mm guns and the self defence missile systems, is very naive.

Here is your ship... it is on time even though it does not work but boy I guess you are really happy you got it on time... right?

GarryB wrote:Yeah, of course it is vastly more important to get ships into service on time because those times were set by god and must be adhered to within the strict bounds of religion and mother nature.

Then again putting a vessel into service just to meet a deadline that has no other meaning than being an arbitrarily date based on guesses of how long everything takes that did not take into account unforseen problems with the engines and the 130mm guns and the self defence missile systems, is very naive.

Here is your ship... it is on time even though it does not work but boy I guess you are really happy you got it on time... right?

Look man you can defend this colossal failure all you wish.

11 YEARS for a ship of that size regardless of it being built with new tech is a disgrace.

If this was a carrier that would be MUCH MUCH more understandable.

All your are saying here means the shipbuilding industry cannot get their heads out of their ass. THe mere fact the systems or whatever isn't done yet is NO excuse after 11 years.

There is NO defending this failure. Also this ship HAS it's engine so don't even use that here.

Big_Gazza wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:
Look man you can defend this colossal failure all you wish.

11 YEARS for a ship of that size regardless of it being built with new tech is a disgrace.

If this was a carrier that would be MUCH MUCH more understandable.

All your are saying here means the shipbuilding industry cannot get their heads out of their ass. THe mere fact the systems or whatever isn't done yet is NO excuse after 11 years.

There is NO defending this failure. Also this ship HAS it's engine so don't even use that here.

Agreed.  The Zumwalt Class is an unmitigated disaster. Or maybe you mean the LCT?....

By contrast, the Gorshkov may be well behind schedule, but she is a useful design and will be a huge leap forward for the RuN once all the bugs are resolved and the engine supply issues are resolved.  Until then, test her until she breaks and make 100% sure that all of her systems, sensors and weapons function as intended and that she is fully fit for purpose.

We aren't talking about another ships here.

I have no doubt it will be a good ship, just saying this timeframe is beyond absurd.

It shouldn't take them 11 years to sort out all these bugs, hell they still haven't gotten the Redut to work fully.

Russia has a major problem with it's ship building industry in getting things done on time.

To pretend otherwise does nothing.

If I'm right, the naval versions of land based air systems are done by a different design bureau. Maybe that's the problem. Like I said before It's the implimentation of system that has issues not the building part. The second ship of the class is ready when it comes to its construction. It's not really shipbuilders that are bad, it's the engineers of these systems.

Gorshkov is a small frigate compare to what's done abroad. It should be build very fast. Kilos and Grigorovitch frigates are done normally. I don't know but they probably will do the next ones faster once they resolve all the issues. They really need Gorshkov frigates, they will be the backbone of the Russian Navy, at least they should build those which will replace sovremenys.

I have no doubt it will be a good ship, just saying this timeframe is beyond absurd.

It shouldn't take them 11 years to sort out all these bugs, hell they still haven't gotten the Redut to work fully.

Russia has a major problem with it's ship building industry in getting things done on time.

Given the context no it isn't an absurd time frame.

First of all for the period of the 1990s there were no orders, no contracts... all the infrastructure was rubbish and obsolete... the workers likely earned a living driving taxi cabs or other such work.

When you get a contract to build a ship the first thing you have to do is totally retool the factory and then the next thing you have to do is hire an entire workforce and train them on the new equipment.

Even after doing that you now have the pleasure of building ships the Soviets and Russians never built before. They are of a totally new design paradigm... ie not just a new class of vessel but a new concept in ship building with a modular multirole design with weapons and sensors and systems for roles no previous Russian vessel was ever capable of.

More to the point the new systems are rather advanced... Poliment Redut has an active phased array radar of significant size this has to be integrated and operate with dozens of other new sensors and systems... you can just put them in the ship and expect them to work perfectly.

Next you have problems with propulsion... even if everything else was perfect they could not have gotten the ship operational without propulsion system and they are only just ready now as a Russian made product.

Then you have issues with the main gun and the SAM system... but because this vessel will be modular and multirole it does not matter if it takes 15 years to get it into service because once all the problems are sorted out they can make dozens of them, and they should be able to make them fairly quickly once everything is working.

Shouldn't we blame almaz antey for not fixing the redut
on time?

I would say yes if the process of navalising a SAM system simply consisted of taking the wheels and tracks off the land vehicle and inserting the whole vehicle hull into the deck of a ship with the sensors mounted up somewhere high to have good fields of view.

The actual task of navalising anything is difficult and complex... a land battery of S-350 vehicles don't operate within 50m of very very powerful AESA radars of different types and also within 50m of Pantsir and other radar based systems and other jamming and decoy systems and of course several radar directed guns of various calibres.

The Seawolf missile was able to hit a 114mm shell in flight but missed an incoming Exocet missile because the radar the Seawolf used to track targets was jammed by the satellite communications system the Sheffield used to communicate with London... crap like that can cost you a ship in combat...

The Gorshkov might just be a frigate but it carries the C4IR system that all other Russian vessels will be carrying leading to a fleet of AEGIS class type vessels that will be very potent and able to operate as a networked team.

They really need Gorshkov frigates, they will be the backbone of the Russian Navy, at least they should build those which will replace sovremenys.

They have already stated that Udaloy class vessels are going to be refitted with Uran missiles... not much use for an ASW destroyer like the Udaloys were, but better than nothing for an ASh Destroyer to replace the Sovremmenys... which makes sense as their propulsion is likely more reliable.

The Russian Navy does not need to be a huge fleet so there is nothing critical about getting hundreds of ships into service any time soon.

Well it is a new system... it could be as simple as that... but then why would it only effect the long range missiles?