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Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

AlfaT8

AlfaT8: Posts : 2488
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Post n°776

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

AlfaT8 Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:41 am

PapaDragon wrote:

Gunship Democracy wrote:
...Yes, true sea denial doesn't let you win on sea but as long as Russian nukes reach US mainland no need for sea battles.

Damn straight!!!

Nukes are a bluff that no one is suppose to be stupid enough to call, yet considering how utterly foolish Western leaders have become, i fear it's only a matter of time before someone is stupid enough to actually call this bluff, and the question is will Russia do it, or will they simply accept there losses and compromise, since they also don't want to cease to exist.

miketheterrible

miketheterrible: Posts : 7383
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Post n°777

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

miketheterrible Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:50 am

AlfaT8 wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Gunship Democracy wrote:
...Yes, true sea denial doesn't let you win on sea but as long as Russian nukes reach US mainland no need for sea battles.

Damn straight!!!

Nukes are a bluff that no one is suppose to be stupid enough to call, yet considering how utterly foolish Western leaders have become, i fear it's only a matter of time before someone is stupid enough to actually call this bluff, and the question is will Russia do it, or will they simply accept there losses and compromise, since they also don't want to cease to exist.

Judging how much emphasis they are into putting money and effort into Ballistic missile tech as well as holding a drill earlier in the year simulating nuclear war and how many would survive, gives indication Russian authorities are more prepared than before.

KiloGolf

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Post n°778

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

KiloGolf Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:02 am

Big_Gazza wrote:Finally, is it a little frustrating that Russia won't have a nice fleet of 10x shiny new Gorshkovs by 2020? Sure, but that's life, and Russia has more pressing concerns.

I know, they just cut their defense budget for 2018. Defense is not a priority, maybe social programs are more pressing concerns.

Big_Gazza

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Post n°779

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

Big_Gazza Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:09 am

AlfaT8 wrote:Nukes are a bluff that no one is suppose to be stupid enough to call, yet considering how utterly foolish Western leaders have become, i fear it's only a matter of time before someone is stupid enough to actually call this bluff, and the question is will Russia do it, or will they simply accept there losses and compromise, since they also don't want to cease to exist.

You forget that while nuclear escalation is a real concern, if Russia were faced with a foreign invasion that they couldn't repel with conventional arms, they could use a small number of nukes against enemy naval forces and this would not necessarily lead to a full nuclear exchange. HATOstani warmongers will be unable to retaliate in kind, as Russia doesn't have similar naval assets. Would HATO war planners attack land bases knowing Russia would respond with reciprocal attacks? Would they escalate to hit cities knowing Russia would hit theirs?

If Russia makes a few token attacks against purely military targets in distant locations that didn't impinge on EU or US landmasses, the option to escalate is much reduced.

Big_Gazza

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Post n°780

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

Big_Gazza Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:17 am

KiloGolf wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:Finally, is it a little frustrating that Russia won't have a nice fleet of 10x shiny new Gorshkovs by 2020? Sure, but that's life, and Russia has more pressing concerns.

I know, they just cut their defense budget for 2018. Defense is not a priority, maybe social programs are more pressing concerns.

Quoting a single year out of context isn't very illustrative. Russian military spend is in line with the 5-year procurement plan, and it was always intended that 2018 expenditure would be lessened in line with expected cash flow for the rearmament program.

For instance, from Janes: http://www.janes.com/article/74248/russian-defence-budget-expected-to-be-cut-by-5-in-2018

The Russian defence budget is expected to be cut by approximately 5.0% to RUB2.73 trillion (USD47.13 billion) in 2018, according to budgetary guidance published by the Ministry of Finance. The reduction in spending is in line with plans laid out under the previous 2017–19 budget.

According to the document outlining the main directions of budgetary policy for 2018–20, spending on National Defence is expected to receive a 3.7% increase in 2019 to reach RUB2.83 trillion before a further marginal 0.5% cut in 2020 to RUB2.82 trillion. The new plans are in line with previous projections for 2018. However, the defence allocation for 2019 is around 0.5% higher than previously expected.

The Russians spend the cash they need to achieve their goals, and pare back expenses when they can. Its called responsible management.

PapaDragon

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Post n°781

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

PapaDragon Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:09 am

BREAKING NEWS: Delivery of frigate Admiral Gorshkov has been moved to 2018! lol1

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4840943

George1

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Post n°782

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

George1 Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:23 am

On the bmpd side, we recall that the main frigate of project 22350 "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov" (plant number 921) was built at JSC "Shipyard" Severnaya Verf "in St. Petersburg, where it was laid on February 1, 2006, launched 29 October 2010 and made the first exit to the factory sea trials in the Baltic Sea on November 18, 2014. State tests of the frigate have been in progress since 2015....

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3020568.html

AlfaT8

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Post n°783

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

AlfaT8 Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:40 am

PapaDragon wrote:
BREAKING NEWS: Delivery of frigate Admiral Gorshkov has been moved to 2018!

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4840943

Jesus, is that ship infested with xenomorphs or something?? Shocked

SeigSoloyvov

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Post n°784

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

SeigSoloyvov Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:18 am

PapaDragon wrote:
BREAKING NEWS: Delivery of frigate Admiral Gorshkov has been moved to 2018!

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4840943

Now now let's not be rude and rush them! I mean they could take 20 years and that would be okay!

In all seriousness tho it should be delivered in 2018 if it's not someone needs to be shot at that point.

PapaDragon

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Post n°785

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

PapaDragon Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:32 am

AlfaT8 wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
BREAKING NEWS: Delivery of frigate Admiral Gorshkov has been moved to 2018!

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4840943

Jesus, is that ship infested with xenomorphs or something??

Well acid damage caused by extermination process would explain delays...

But seriously, if long range AA missiles are problem then just dump medium range ones in slots and send that thing to work while you fix missile fuckup somewhere else.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:....

Now now let's not be rude and rush them! I mean they could take 20 years and that would be okay!

In all seriousness tho it should be delivered in 2018 if it's not someone needs to be shot at that point.

It should be delivered in February 2018 at the latest and firing squads should already be doing target practice just in case....

Cyberspec

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Post n°786

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

Cyberspec Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:33 am

The Gorshkov is in the North Sea threatening Cool

England and spoiling the RN's Chrismas celebrations..

Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 32 Nintchdbpict000374819784

WE SAW VLAD'S SHIP COME SAILING IN HMS St Albans scrambled to intercept Russian warship Admiral Gorshkov in North Sea as Putin tests Britain’s defences on Christmas Day

Frigate was sent out on December 23 to intercept the new Russian warship
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5210371/hms-st-albans-shadows-russian-warship-admiral-gorshkov-in-north-sea-on-christmas-day/

ZoA

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Post n°787

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

ZoA Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:15 am

PapaDragon wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
BREAKING NEWS: Delivery of frigate Admiral Gorshkov has been moved to 2018!

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4840943

Jesus, is that ship infested with xenomorphs or something??

Well acid damage caused by extermination process would explain delays...

But seriously, if long range AA missiles are problem then just dump medium range ones in slots and send that thing to work while you fix missile fuckup somewhere else.

This is unlikely because of the way ship building contracts are made. Each payment to the shipyard is made in tranches as specific construction and testing goals are completed. Typically one of most important payment tranche condition is successful passing sea trials in which if ship passes specific set of test specified in contract. If Gorshkov is unable to meet some of contracted specification Russian government has legal right to delay payment of the transhe until issue is resoled, furthermore accepting the ship that does not comply to contractual specification can be political issue, and can be used against officer or public servant responsible for it for damaging public interest and mishandling public fonds. And unlike N America and EU thing like that are taken seriously in Russia where even high ranking ministers can get arrested and prosecuted on such charges (something unheard of in W Europe and N America where military procurement is hotbed of corruption and graft practised with complete impunity form the law)

So in short i doubt any Russian public official or officer will risk his job or possible jail time by accepting ship outside of contractual specifications.

PapaDragon

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Post n°788

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

PapaDragon Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:22 pm

Cyberspec wrote:The Gorshkov is in the North Sea threatening England and spoiling the RN's Chrismas celebrations..
........

WE SAW VLAD'S SHIP COME SAILING IN HMS St Albans scrambled to intercept Russian warship Admiral Gorshkov in North Sea as Putin tests Britain’s defences on Christmas Day...

Vlad's ship? Who the hell is hiring journalists in UK lately? What kind of newspaper is this?

Also, Christmas for Russians is not for another two weeks so wrong butthurt...

T-47

T-47: Posts : 269
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Post n°789

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

T-47 Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:41 pm

PapaDragon wrote:
BREAKING NEWS: Delivery of frigate Admiral Gorshkov has been moved to 2018!

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4840943

Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 32 11214210

Guest

Guest: Guest

Post n°790

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

Guest Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:09 pm

PapaDragon wrote:
BREAKING NEWS: Delivery of frigate Admiral Gorshkov has been moved to 2018!

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4840943

No need to rush things, the super carriers are on the way, it just needs to be ready when carriers are too, so they can form a battlegroup. So dont be fkn Rusophobic intoxicator, everything is going by the plan.

PapaDragon

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Post n°791

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

PapaDragon Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:27 pm

Militarov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
BREAKING NEWS: Delivery of frigate Admiral Gorshkov has been moved to 2018!
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4840943

No need to rush things, the super carriers are on the way, it just needs to be ready when carriers are too, so they can form a battlegroup. So dont be fkn Rusophobic intoxicator, everything is going by the plan.

Don't be russophobic hater, don't you see what the secret plan is? They obviously built 20 Gorshkovs already and now they welded them together in order to form one mega supercarrier.

It's all part of the plan to deceive intoxicators!!!

Cyberspec

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Post n°792

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

Cyberspec Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:08 pm

PapaDragon wrote:

Cyberspec wrote:The Gorshkov is in the North Sea threatening England and spoiling the RN's Chrismas celebrations..
........

WE SAW VLAD'S SHIP COME SAILING IN HMS St Albans scrambled to intercept Russian warship Admiral Gorshkov in North Sea as Putin tests Britain’s defences on Christmas Day...

Vlad's ship? Who the hell is hiring journalists in UK lately? What kind of newspaper is this?

Also, Christmas for Russians is not for another two weeks so wrong butthurt...

Obviously a headline to attract attention...the Sun specialises in sensalitionalism and russophobia....just like some posters here

RN = Royal Navy => RN's Christmas

AlfaT8

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Post n°793

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

AlfaT8 Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:10 pm

PapaDragon wrote:

Militarov wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
BREAKING NEWS: Delivery of frigate Admiral Gorshkov has been moved to 2018!
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4840943

No need to rush things, the super carriers are on the way, it just needs to be ready when carriers are too, so they can form a battlegroup. So dont be fkn Rusophobic intoxicator, everything is going by the plan.

Don't be russophobic hater, don't you see what the secret plan is? They obviously built 20 Gorshkovs already and now they welded them together in order to form one mega supercarrier.

It's all part of the plan to deceive intoxicators!!!

Goliath-class?

Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 32 Stealth_carrier_by_strib-d55n6m4

miketheterrible

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Post n°794

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

miketheterrible Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:24 pm

So they plan to skip an entire process after these continuation of tests to put it directly into service? They plan to speed up second ship too. Guess the Redut system is very problematic or they don't trust the system so testing every nut and bolt.

KomissarBojanchev

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Post n°795

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

KomissarBojanchev Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:52 am

miketheterrible wrote:So they plan to skip an entire process after these continuation of tests to put it directly into service? They plan to speed up second ship too. Guess the Redut system is very problematic or they don't trust the system so testing every nut and bolt.

They said the gorshkov is more of a floating laboratory than a fighting ship but the kasatonov will be tested very fast due to the whole torture with the gorshkov. Also the USC chairman yet again was "deeply sorry" for delaying the commissioning.

Also is it likely that the gorshkov's only problem is the 3M96? All other weapons and radar systems seem tested already successfully on other ships.

miketheterrible

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Post n°796

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

miketheterrible Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:00 am

Was said initially but fixed back in October. Don't know what else afterwards.

KomissarBojanchev

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Post n°797

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

KomissarBojanchev Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:29 am

miketheterrible wrote:Was said initially but fixed back in October.

Source?

GarryB

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Post n°798

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

GarryB Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:27 am

Well all these butthurt fanbois will have to delay their Russias navy is the best crusade for another summer campaign... who gives a fuck.

Get over it.

The Russian navy is growing and getting better, if you want to make yourselves look like whiny little girls moaning because it is not to your satisfaction in terms of speed go right ahead and get your panties in a bunch.

Name one NATO country that can do in Syria what Russian Corvettes did in Syria... any country for that matter... but somehow because they don't pump out useless weakly armed ships like the chinese or South Koreans they are somehow incompetent... blah blah blah.

ZoA

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Post n°799

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

ZoA Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:36 am

If delays are the issue with Redut it does not mean system does not work, it only could mean it does not work as was specified in initial contract made over a decade ago. That could mean anything, like if contract specifies targeting radar should be able to track 1 m^2 at say 120 km at height of 15 km if it can only track such target at say 100 km then ship is in violation of contract and can't pass trials.

Whatever issues with Redut are they are probably also related with delays in Vityaz S-350 production. Original report suggest S-350 should have entered serial production in 2015 but that clearly had not happen. Reports on it last few years are rather tin and last I read one was allegedly deplored in Syria as a replacement of S-300 system. If this report is true it is probably test deployment as Russians there seem to be testing large namer of weapons that are not formally in Russian service but in development. So my guess Redult and Vityaz are actually functional however some performance characteristic are not up to what Russian MOD has contracted with Almaz-Antey so systems can not pass trials and formally enter service.

Hoverer formally not being in service does not mean systems are a not de facto operational. If Gorshkov is not formally in the service does not change the fact the ship is actually fully manned and armed and capable of executing most of its task, like mocking Royal navy on Christmas eve, or using most of its weapons in case of war. This is why Russian navy is in no hurry to formally complete trials, but USC is because formal successful completion of trials is condition of them getting paid significant tranche of ship's cost.

KomissarBojanchev

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Post n°800

Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

KomissarBojanchev Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:13 pm

Name one NATO country that can do in Syria what Russian Corvettes did in Syria

MUH CORVETTES MUH CORVETTES. If it takes 20 years to commission 1 frigate and there are no destroyers left you'll still derail the point by mentioning corvettes. Russia has no aircraft carrier replacement. MUH 6 BUYANS!!!!!! Northern and Pacific fleets have no destroyers left? MUH 6 BUYANS!!!!

Give me a break.

don't pump out useless weakly armed ships like the chinese or South Koreans

Chinese type 055s and 052s are far from useless and have more VLSs than most NATO ships. Your "BUT CHINAA BUILDS CRAP SO RUSSIA DOESNT NEED FRIGATES ASAP" excuse is weak and useless just as how you describe chinese ships.

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