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    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    TR1
    TR1


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    Post  TR1 Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:59 pm

    xeno wrote:I realize the full load displacement of a 22350 must be above 5000 mts, probably 5100-5200 mts instead of 4500 mts which is widely quoted on the Internet, as per this official page on project 22356 http://www.severnoe.com/proposals/naval/22356/

    The hulls of 22356 and 22350 are exactly the same, so a normal displacement of 4550 mts will natruall lead to a 5000+ mts full load displacement, of course unless the technical guy and IT guy who prepared this web page were drunk and got things wrong...

    All the more reason why 22350 and 22350M is the real 956/1155 replacement. I'd rather have more of these hulls than a stretched small destroyer that brings no real leap of capability over 22350/M.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:00 pm

    PutZin wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    It would be nice to know what you disagree with, regarding speed of construction and estimates for 2020, based on the facts that are now available.

    6 in the water by 2020 is good enough... they don't need thousands and they are not stopping production in 2020.


    It's not about whether the production is going to stop or not. It's about whether or not the official estimates by the Russian officials were realistic back in 2010/11.
    Now that we have entered 2015, we can see that many of those estimates were wrong. Therefore target of 50-70% of what was estimated a few years earlier, is more realistic now.

    So the engine issue is not relevant here. What's relevant is to see how the Russian officials where hyping up their "production numbers", which won't be met by 2020.

    While I do understand that technical problems might occur underway, it's interesting to see how much all procurements are delayed and by how much.

    By the way, an additional analysis has been posted on RussiaMil today. It's a good read.


    Russian officials keep harping about 8 Boreiis and 8 Grannays by 2020.
    That says all you really need to know.
    ExBeobachter1987
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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:25 pm

    TR1 wrote:Russian officials keep harping about 8 Boreiis by 2020.

    That says all you really need to know.

    How unrealistic is this number? 3 are complete, 3 are already under construction. Combined they represent 75% of the intended Borey number in 2020.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:03 am

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Russian officials keep harping about 8 Boreiis by 2020.

    That says all you really need to know.

    How unrealistic is this number? 3 are complete, 3 are already under construction. Combined they represent 75% of the intended Borey number in 2020.

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t46p285-project-955-borei

    Scroll down to see our discussion on the topic.

    It is annoying to see the 8 by 2020 line repeated over and over, when it is clearly not true.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:58 am

    It's not about whether the production is going to stop or not. It's about whether or not the official estimates by the Russian officials were realistic back in 2010/11.

    Of course they were realistic, they were based on the information available and other plans in place at the time.

    3 years ago most people would have bet money that France would have had the first Mistral class carrier ready for Russia last november... it was ready but was not handed over for reasons not really forseeable when the contracts were signed.

    Now that we have entered 2015, we can see that many of those estimates were wrong. Therefore target of 50-70% of what was estimated a few years earlier, is more realistic now.

    Reasonable to whom?

    I prefer the Russian shipbuilders and military to release the plans and estimates as they have better information than bloggers and forum experts.

    So the engine issue is not relevant here. What's relevant is to see how the Russian officials where hyping up their "production numbers", which won't be met by 2020.

    So what you are saying is that it is the fact that they will probably have gotten their estimates wrong is the important thing... not why they might have gotten it wrong.

    Will there be public trials, or just quiet executions? Rolling Eyes


    While I do understand that technical problems might occur underway, it's interesting to see how much all procurements are delayed and by how much.

    That is why it is called planning and management... you create plans with the best information available at the time, but over time you review the plans based on any new information and then either change the plan or change the management.

    A good example was S-400 production which was found to be too slow to manage domestic and potential export production so extra production facilities not part of the original plan were created.

    I am sure you will jump up and down and say the first plan was therefore a failure, but that is just normal management. Rolling Eyes

    Current aircraft carrier should have been refurbished long time ago, but it still isn't.

    Because they obviously decided they wanted to keep using it.

    Speculation either way is pointless... it might be that they wanted to upgrade it with something that is not ready yet, or they might not have dry dock space available, or political reasons might have kept it in the water... we have no way of knowing.

    Mistral LPDs won't be delivered, unless Marine Le Pen wins French elections in 2017.

    Even if she does win they will both be very late by then and all the ship builders will have been tried and executed... Rolling Eyes

    It is annoying to see the 8 by 2020 line repeated over and over, when it is clearly not true.

    It depends on your standard of English... they planned to have 8 by 2020 and that is true.

    Whether they get 6 or 10 wont be known till 2020. Rolling Eyes

    Whining about it wont change anything. Twisted Evil
    George1
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    Post  George1 Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:16 am

    Damn. Engine of frigate "Admiral Gorshkov" burned out due to a fault management system
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:23 am

    George1 wrote:Damn. Engine of frigate "Admiral Gorshkov" burned out due to a fault management system

    That happened earlier- they replaced it with the engines from Kasatonov, they are being repaired while Kasatonov is being fitted out.
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:40 pm

    Very Happy

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 17 GmNnpLm
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    Post  Mike E Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:43 pm

    Viktor wrote:Very Happy

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 17 GmNnpLm
    Looking good!  russia
    George1
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    Post  George1 Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:24 pm

    Russian Navy will soon receive three Project 22350 frigates
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    Post  chicken Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:04 am

    How credible is this as a source? I'm pretty sure they just picked up things from the internet, probably someone knows something about the magazine?

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 17 SBJ3sDQ
    https://i.imgur.com/SBJ3sDQ.jpg


    Last edited by chicken on Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:08 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : aspect ratio 2x)
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:53 am

    Utterly wrong about SAMs.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:01 am

    Utterly wrong about SAMs.

    Would be consistent with the land based missiles, where a "tube" can either hold one large S-400 missile or four smaller 9M96 based S-350 missiles.

    Perhaps the SAM vertical launch system on Corvettes are shorter and don't allow the longer missiles and are therefore limited to 9M96 and Morfei, but larger vessels will almost certainly have the large S-400 missiles (and the sensors to use them).
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    Post  chicken Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:53 am

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 17 Z9JdiXQ

    Can anyone ID these?

    Found it in one of TR1's post.
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    Post  Werewolf Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:54 am

    S-300 size i would guess.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:49 pm

    Head Frigate of New Project to Enter Russian Navy in Autumn

    The head frigate of the project 22350 “Admiral Gorshkov” is planned to be delivered to the Russian Navy in the Autumn of 2015, Fleet Commander Admiral Viktor Chirkov told reporters on Friday.

    The frigate “Admiral Gorshkov” was laid on the “Severnaya Verf” in February 2006 and launched in October 2010. It is planned to build eight frigates of the project 22350.

    We are planning to receive “Admiral Gorshkov” in the Autumn. She passes the test, all goes according to plan, we are proceeding to the second stage of testing,” Chirkov said.

    The ships of the project have a displacement of 4.5 million tons, a length of 135 meters and a width of 15 meters. The frigates will be armed with ship artillery unit A-192 “Armat” caliber 130 mm, 16 launchers for anti-ship missiles “Oniks” or “Kalibr-NKE” and anti-aircraft missile system “Poliment-Redut”.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:32 am

    4.5 thousand tons = 4.5 million kgs.
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    Post  Vympel Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:47 am

    Anyone seen the picture on the left before?

    http://twitter.com/az1ok/status/569835922868576257/photo/1
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:00 am

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 17 17-3778242-22350-admiral-golovko-severnaya-verf

    Admiral Golovko.
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:12 am

    Vympel wrote:Anyone seen the picture on the left before?

    http://twitter.com/az1ok/status/569835922868576257/photo/1

    I haven't seen it.....it implies S-500 for Gorshkov class frigates
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    Post  Vympel Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:02 am

    TR1 wrote:

    Admiral Golovko.

    Nice. Too bad it won't have engines until god knows when what with the Ukraine situation.
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    Post  TR1 Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:05 am

    Vympel wrote:
    TR1 wrote:

    Admiral Golovko.

    Nice. Too bad it won't have engines until god knows when what with the Ukraine situation.

    All in the hands of Kolomensky and Saturn. If they want money it is time to do honest work.
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    Post  Dima Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:55 am

    New Russian Navy Frigate "Admiral Gorshkov" Project 22350 to Continue Trials in Barents Sea

    Some Russian media previously reported about problems in the power plant of the frigate. The shipyard dismissed these reports and said there were "no problems" with the power plant. "The ship pefromed well in the initial tests, the sailors and crew are very happy. This is a completely new design and its tests are carried out very carefully," - said the representative of the shipyard.

    http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2573
    Can we expect two each of 22350 and 11356 to enter service this year itself?
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    Post  chicken Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:33 am

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov - Page 17 BCA8Ygw

    Any reason for the removal of Furke from the Gorshkov?
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    Post  Viktor Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:17 pm

    Nice  thumbsup


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