Syrian Civil War: News #9

KiloGolf wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:This is testament to those idiots who say that Russian Airstrikes are innaccurate. In this war accuracy is as relative as your average woman's focus timespan.

Did they knew they were hitting the SAA? I'm pretty sure they knew it. Even IF this fuck up is probably the biggest push ISIS had in the area for years...US foreign policy the MIDAS touch for Islamism/

It's a clear message to Russia and friends. The US side will simply not hesitate.
So I don't think it's a fuck up per se.

Which will have consequences, this is a reprisal for the NySA border attack, ok fair game...

KoTeMoRe wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:This is testament to those idiots who say that Russian Airstrikes are innaccurate. In this war accuracy is as relative as your average woman's focus timespan.

Did they knew they were hitting the SAA? I'm pretty sure they knew it. Even IF this fuck up is probably the biggest push ISIS had in the area for years...US foreign policy the MIDAS touch for Islamism/

It's a clear message to Russia and friends. The US side will simply not hesitate.
So I don't think it's a fuck up per se.

Which will have consequences, this is a reprisal for the NySA border attack, ok fair game...

This kind of BS is dangerous. The Obama administration seems to be dangerously prone to such behavior.
After Dubya's Iraq clvsterfvck one wouldn't have predicted things could get worse. And here we are with "Arab Spring" and ISIS as results of failed policy.

PapaDragon wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:
....................

Buddy I have to say that F-16 on your signature has the prettiest paintjob I have ever seen on a fighter jet.

Yeah, Demo Zeus, I like it too



OT ends.

ISIS claims to have targeted a Turkish tank in Syria

http://conflict-watch.com/2016/09/18/isis-claims-to-have-targeted-a-turkish-tank-in-syria/

KiloGolf wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:Declaration of a NFZ over entire Syria would be better.

With what? A small airbase, a few Flankers and a battery of Growlers aint gonna cut it.

No, with international law. Declaring an NFZ is 10% blowing shit up.

KiloGolf wrote:
Maximum effective range and schematics for a few launchers stationed in Hmeinim mean very little. Those Growlers are barely insurance policy for the small airbase, and that's it. The system, as deployed, does not and cannot deny flights beyond 40 or 50 km radius, especially if the opposing forces starts jamming it (which I suspect already happens). Meaning most of Syria is open for NATO, Coalition and IDF/AF flights and air strikes. And we see the results on the news.

Jamming an S-400 system. That's a good one, especially considering counter-EW is deployed as well.

40-50km, where did you find that info?

So, Maria Zakharova publicly states that America and Daesh work together. The ceasefire is only observed by SAA, generally, and the ceasefire in Donbass is not observed at all by Washington's vassal Kiev. If these ceasefires, if all the talk of "partners" was a trap for Washington, as many say, and now the mask is ripped off and the traps sprung, then what happens next. Something must happen, it cannot be that Washington simply shits on humanity and smiles and walks away yet again. If there is no large scale movement of VKS into Syria and declaration of no fly zone for any aircraft other than Syrian or VKS, followed by very serious attacks on daesh and rebels, then it is difficult to see what this is all for other than a macabre and futile dance.

KiloGolf wrote:

Maximum effective range and schematics for a few launchers stationed in Hmeinim mean very little. Those Growlers are barely insurance policy for the small airbase, and that's it. The system, as deployed, does not and cannot deny flights beyond 40 or 50 km radius, especially if the opposing forces starts jamming it (which I suspect already happens). Meaning most of Syria is open for NATO, Coalition and IDF/AF flights and air strikes. And we see the results on the news.

This have nothing to do with Jamming or any Russian "Weakness" in military. You do the same mistakes of the majority of people not aware of how wars are fought.There is something called Rules of Engagement  that nations most times agree to follow to minimize the chance for a full scale world war 3 confrontation to happen , for significant smaller things. Russia could have easily saved the life of its pilot last year ,if it declared a no fly zone over all southern Turkey. but they will had to deal with another war then, which will have helped ISIS ,since will keep Russia busy fighting Turkey and not helping Syrian army to recapture territory. So it was not the best time ,for Russia to start shooting down Turkey planes. Same is for Americans.

If Russia close the airspace Syria to americans and start shooting down NATO planes ,then it will have to switch from fighting ISIS ,to Fight Americans and this will not help Syria in any way. There is a time for every battle and only fools go to war , without taking into account the economic aspects of it ,and without having a clear objectives in mind..  If Russia start world war 3 now with Americans,without Syria recapturing its territory or most of it, it will not help Syria to get rid of its terrorist. it will actually worsen it . because Syria will be nuked for sure by Israel and NATO in retaliation to any attack on NATO planes.

you could also say , Russia have the capabilities to defeat ISIS in just 24 hours.. using very lethal chemical weapons ,drop them in RAQQA city and in all zones controlled by American backed terror groups.. but the problem with that is that civilians will also be killed too up
to half a million ,that are hostage from american backed terrorist. and then Russia demonized worldwide and isolated from the world. So it will help the west to isolate Russia economy from the world or at least from Europe. destroying Russia economy. So  There are consequences
for your actions .  Russia could shot down Israel planes in telaviv with their S-400s, to keep them away of syrian borders but that will make Israel to start a new major front with the full scale of its army. So it will not help Syria either .  Russia wants to save Syria ,but without sacrificing the entire budget of their nation economy there. without having to do a full scale major invasion , in a conflict that NATO can easily continue to fuel for decades. So that will make Russia to commit the same mistakes soviets did in afganistan. that over spend there and in the end had to leave ,because could not continue financing the war.  So Russia needs to develop a strategy ,that could allow Russia to Permenently stay in Syria without being bankrupt
for the conflict..and at the same time allow Syria to slowly but a firm pace recover all its territory. So this is the reason Russia cooperates with Americans. and play a game. It will allow Americans to discredit themselves ,destroying their world image ,by exposing their aid to terrorism ,and it will allow Russia to win world public opinion. that with time will get the international support of its approach to the Syrian conflict.

The very fact that Americans are desperate now ,and Obama comparing Putin with Sadam hussein and CIA officials calling in public for killing Russians, shows that they are feeling the pressure for war in Syria and that they are losing the public support too ,not only from civilians but also from the US military too. There will be elections in November and if trump wins ,there is a major chance he will end the honeymoon of US military with Alqaeda and ISIS and do a coalition with Russia. So allowing Russia to accomplish their goals ,without destroying its economy. Also if Russia start shooting down American planes .it will help Hillary Clinton to get more support from Dumb Americans society and it will make more difficult the campaign of trump of closer relations with Russia.   So the only thing being jammed here is people brains ,that do not understand wars are not like movies , and that you need Clear Objectives to achieve and stick to them ,other wise you will end in a war in Syria that will in no time become world war , and in the end make things worse for Syria and worse for Russia and for Putin too.

Eventually if Russia manage to little by little help Syrian army to recapture most of its cities ,
then NATO will be kicked. Because when Syria defeat ISIS And recovers all their cities or the most important ones , then only then ,they can fully focus in NATO and push them out of Syria airspace.since they will have no excuse anymore to be there once ISIS defeated. And Syria could focus then in enforcing its airspace and territorial integrity. Turkey also will be forced to leave ,once the Syrian army liberates Aleppo ,capture IDLIB and start closing the gate from where Turkey enter in Syria. A slow war is the best option for Syria and all this attacks on Syrian army by US and ISrael shows they are feeling already very worried of losing the possibility of achieving any objective there..

Vann7 wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

Maximum effective range and schematics for a few launchers stationed in Hmeinim mean very little. Those Growlers are barely insurance policy for the small airbase, and that's it. The system, as deployed, does not and cannot deny flights beyond 40 or 50 km radius, especially if the opposing forces starts jamming it (which I suspect already happens). Meaning most of Syria is open for NATO, Coalition and IDF/AF flights and air strikes. And we see the results on the news.

This have nothing to do with Jamming or any Russian "Weakness" in military. You do the same mistakes of the majority of people not aware of how wars are fought.There is something called Rules of Engagement  that nations most times agree to follow to minimize the chance for a full scale world war 3 confrontation to happen , for significant smaller things. Russia could have easily saved the life of its pilot last year ,if it declared a no fly zone over all southern Turkey. but they will had to deal with another war then, which will have helped ISIS ,since will keep Russia busy fighting Turkey and not helping Syrian army to recapture territory. So it was not the best time ,for Russia to start shooting down Turkey planes. Same is for Americans.

If Russia close the airspace Syria to americans and start shooting down NATO planes ,then it will have to switch from fighting ISIS ,to Fight Americans and this will not help Syria in any way. There is a time for every battle and only food and idiots go to war ,without having a clear objectives in mind..  If Russia start world war 3 now with Americans it will not help Syria to get rid of its terrorist. it will actually worsen it . because Syria will be nuked for sure by Israel and NATO in retaliation to any attack on NATO planes.

you could also say , Russia have the capabilities to defeat ISIS in just 24 hours.. using very lethal chemical weapons ,drop them in RAQQA city and in all zones controlled by American backed terror groups.. but the problem with that is that civilians will also be killed too up
to half a million ,that are hostage from american backed terrorist. and then Russia demonized worldwide and isolated from the world. So it will help the west to isolate Russia economy from the world or at least from Europe. destroying Russia economy. So  There are consequences
for your actions .  Russia could shot down Israel planes in telaviv with their S-400s, to keep them away of syrian borders but that will make Israel to start a new major front with the full scale of its army. So it will not help Syria either .  Russia wants to save Syria ,but without sacrificing the entire budget of their nation economy there. without having to do a full scale major invasion , in a conflict that NATO can easily continue to fuel for decades. So that will make Russia to commit the same mistakes soviets did in afganistan. that over spend there and in the end had to leave ,because could not continue financing the war.  So Russia needs to develop a strategy ,that could allow Russia to Permenently stay in Syria without being bankrupt
for the conflict..and at the same time allow Syria to slowly but a firm pace recover all its territory. So this is the reason Russia cooperates with Americans. and play a game. It will allow Americans to discredit themselves ,destroying their world image ,by exposing their aid to terrorism ,and it will allow Russia to win world public opinion. that with time will get the international support of its approach to the Syrian conflict.

The very fact that Americans are desperate now ,and Obama comparing Putin with Sadam hussein and CIA officials calling in public for killing Russians, shows that they are feeling the pressure for war in Syria and that they are losing the public support too ,not only from civilians but also from the US military too. There will be elections in November and if trump wins ,there is a major chance he will end the honeymoon of US military with Alqaeda and ISIS and do a coalition with Russia. So allowing Russia to accomplish their goals ,without destroying its economy. Also if Russia start shooting down American planes .it will help Hillary Clinton to get more support from Dumb Americans society and it will make more difficult the campaign of trump of closer relations with Russia.   So the only thing being jammed here is people brains ,that do not understand wars are not like movies , and that you need Clear Objectives to achieve and stick to them ,other wise you will end in a war in Syria that will in no time become world war , and in the end make things worse for Syria and worse for Russia and for Putin too.

All this is good, but shutting down Syrian airspace with four or eight S-400 launchers and a tiny base is an impossibility.
Even if RoE are unrestricted or if they employ long range missiles. They just can't. If we're talking about Latakia+northern Tartous, then I could agree.

Syria as a whole, minus those 2 provinces (which constitute a small % of its landmass), is under effective NATO/Coalition/Israeli air dominance. Russia has very little options there, other than sit down and watch SAA getting pounded and release some angry comments for the press.

OminousSpudd wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:Declaration of a NFZ over entire Syria would be better.

With what? A small airbase, a few Flankers and a battery of Growlers aint gonna cut it.

No, with international law. Declaring an NFZ is 10% blowing shit up.

Or fix bayonets and charge in perfectly straight formations.
That will teach 'em

OminousSpudd wrote:Jamming an S-400 system. That's a good one, especially considering counter-EW is deployed as well.

40-50km, where did you find that info?

You never get close to 100% probability of kill at maximum range.
Halving that range is a good estimate of where 100% area denial can be better achieved. That is if there are available missiles...

With only say.. 16 missiles at hand, the previously posted map becomes invalid.

PS. Anything can get jammed.

KiloGolf wrote:
All this is good, but shutting down Syrian airspace with four or eight S-400 launchers and a tiny base is an impossibility.
Even if RoE are unrestricted or if they employ long range missiles. They just can't. If we're talking about Latakia+northern Tartous, then I could agree.

Syria as a whole, minus those 2 provinces (which constitute a small % of its landmass), is under effective NATO/Coalition/Israeli air dominance. Russia has very little options there, other than sit down and watch SAA getting pounded and release some angry comments for the press.

OminousSpudd wrote:Jamming an S-400 system. That's a good one, especially considering counter-EW is deployed as well.

40-50km, where did you find that info?

You never get close to 100% probability of kill at maximum range.
Halving that range is a good estimate of where 100% area denial can be better achieved. That is if there are available missiles...

With only say.. 16 missiles at hand, the previously posted map becomes invalid.

PS. Anything can get jammed.

Russia have setup a network of radars across all Syrian territory that reinforce the signal
of their radars and covers the entire Syrian airspace , so is not just
The coastal zones of latakia the S-400s will be effective but all Syria and all the way to Israel too.. The warships of Russia radar network also are connected with this to reinforce it . So NATO doesn't have any control at all of all Syrian air space.  

And if we believe in NATO exercises in sloviakia dealing with old versions of S-300s ,where they were unable to jam it , more than 5 years years ago.. im sure Russia by now have developed more stronger communications much more resistant to jamming. Syria also have S-300s configured by Russia in damascus.  What happens with Israel airforce that bombs Syria border,is the same thing that happened to Russia with Turkey airforce. is called Rules of Engagement. That Syria needs to play a game ,in such a way that if they shot down an israeli plane they could justify it ,because it will fall in Syria territory. So israel attacks from stand off position across borders ,most times. and Actually Syria claim it shoot down an F-16 in Golen heights and a drone , and crashed in ISIS controlled zone.. using an S-200. So NATO or Israel are not as strong as you think. They can be beaten too. and good luck evading a pantsir air defense if you fly over it. those 30mm cannon bullets will not care if there is jamming there.  neither those heat sensor optics will miss an F-16. we are speaking about a totally non stealthy plane with a HUGE radar and huge heat signature ,developed in the 80s with upgraded electronics. you need much more than that to defeat Russian Air defenses. NATO neither Israel are not as invulnerable as you think. Their propaganda of denying of hidden every thing is what makes them look untouchable. ask those Yemenis , had already shot down Israel planes ,with the flag painted to hide the nationality of the pilot and destroyed dozens of American M1A2 tanks too.

For RUssia to use its S-400s against NATO will only happen when it they perceive a major danger for them or when NATO or Israel start an open war with Syria and the only way to stop them will be with their interference, in that case ,there will be no more point to follow any rules of engage and Russia will be forced to fight and take side of Syria. Russia will be in  major disadvantage in Syria since is far from its land and its military base in latakia is withing range of NATO artillery . But they can still give NATO or Israel a very painful response. make it very expensive and costly for them , the war with Syria. Israel is sponsoring ISIS in Syria ,just like Americans , so for Russia is clear , allowing Syria to collapse is not an option , so that later those same terror groups are re-exported by them to fight Russia.

Location of Deir attacks. In Russian. Any idea what the blue circles with single red arrows are?

Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Donbass, all not dealt with due to not wanting to upset Washington. Iraq and Afghanistan destroyed by Washington, color revolutions around the borders of Russia, destruction of Libya, severe interferrence in Syria. Seems Washington does what it wants, when it wants and where it wants, and without any fear of upsetting Russia, and Russia must do nothing for fear of "falling into trap". War is not won by endless meangingless ceasefires or Minsk 1 Minsk 2 Minsk 3 or whatever, they are not won by smiling politely and having cocktails with "partners" at some grand hotel. Wars are won by doing what Washington does, smashing the enemy and ignoring weak peace mongers wringing their hands on the sidelines. Wars are not won by waging just a little bit of war, they are won by applying overwhelming force and destroying your enemy and their capacity to wage war. "Rules of engagement" dissapeared down the lavatory with the rest of the shit on June 22 1941. Either this shit in Syria and other places is sorted out or there should be no involvement. Alternative to either waging proper war or pulling out is continued fucking and false smiles and more "partners". If there is fear of WWIII, then withdraw and cower in corner pissing pants over fear of Washington. At what point does this appeasement stop, when Americans are rolling thru Smolensk, or perhaps for fear of further upsetting them wait until they are rolling thru Kubinka, then ask politely for a "ceasefire" or just bend over and let Washington take ass....

JohninMK wrote:Location of Deir attacks. In Russian. Any idea what the blue circles with single red arrows are?

ISIS positions hit by Russian bombers... Su-34 by note on the right. Between 20:00-20:20 while the attack on the SAA took place between 17:00-17:50. Apparently the Aussies took part at some time.

Khepesh wrote:Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Donbass, all not dealt with due to not wanting to upset Washington. Iraq and Afghanistan destroyed by Washington, color revolutions around the borders of Russia, destruction of Libya, severe interferrence in Syria. Seems Washington does what it wants, when it wants and where it wants, and without any fear of upsetting Russia, and Russia must do nothing for fear of "falling into trap". War is not won by endless meangingless ceasefires or Minsk 1 Minsk 2 Minsk 3 or whatever, they are not won by smiling politely and having cocktails with "partners" at some grand hotel. Wars are won by doing what Washington does, smashing the enemy and ignoring weak peace mongers wringing their hands on the sidelines. Wars are not won by waging just a little bit of war, they are won by applying overwhelming force and destroying your enemy and their capacity to wage war. "Rules of engagement" dissapeared down the lavatory with the rest of the shit on June 22 1941. Either this shit in Syria and other places is sorted out or there should be no involvement. Alternative to either waging proper war or pulling out is continued fucking and false smiles and more "partners". If there is fear of WWIII, then withdraw and cower in corner pissing pants over fear of Washington. At what point does this appeasement stop, when Americans are rolling thru Smolensk, or perhaps for fear of further upsetting them wait until they are rolling thru Kubinka, then ask politely for a "ceasefire" or just bend over and let Washington take ass....

The problem is that Russia is weak. Not weak in the sense that NATO will not commit suicide if it decides to attack it (NATO will lose)
but weak in the sense of having the resources to put out all the fires that Washington starts. Russia has finally started to push back
in Syria and yes in Banderastan as well. If not for Russia the Donbas would have been rolled over by 2015. Russia can't be there to
totally shut down American shenanigans but at least it does not fall for the bait and does enough to f*ck up Uncle Scam's big plans.

Over time Russia will continue to get more powerful and there will come a day when it will start cleaning house in its neighbourhood.
If it lets regimes such as the one in Kiev stew in its own shit it won't have to do much cleaning. People will be rushing to get its
assistance.

franco wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Location of Deir attacks. In Russian. Any idea what the blue circles with single red arrows are?

ISIS positions hit by Russian bombers... Su-34 by note on the right. Between 20:00-20:20 while the attack on the SAA took place between 17:00-17:50. Apparently the Aussies took part at some time.

Thanks. The attacks seem to have been in vain.

Hassan Ridha ‏@sayed_ridha 8h8 hours ago

IS controls most of Jabal Tharda and are once again overlooking DeirEzzor Airbase, aircraft can no longer land there


As the RAAF does not have F-16 or A-10, if the Russians are correct in identifying them then the Aussie input may have been aerial tanker.

The attack by the US, was pre planned, when the US attacked, the Syrian Army, the Jews in Israel, attacked the Syrian army in the Golan Heights and the Turks, shelled Syrian army, from Turkey, they are doing this, to see what the Russian and Iranian response will be. Hopefully the response from Russia and Iran is, swift and clear, arms the Kurds agianst Turkey and bring in more SU 30SM's and SU 35S's to make The US and Israel think twice before attacking again.



https://southfront.org/u-s-israel-launch-airstrikes-on-syrian-government-forces-directly-supporting-isis-and-al-qaeda/

Total of 6 aircraft, other two not identified by the SAA. Australian military admits they were involved.

The Australian Defence Department is reported as saying:
“Australian aircraft were among a number of international aircraft taking part in this Coalition operation … Australia would never intentionally target a known Syrian military unit or actively support Daesh (IS). Defence offers its condolences to the families of any Syrian personnel killed or wounded in this incident … While Syria remains a dynamic and complex operating environment, Australia would never intentionally target a known Syrian military unit or actively support Daesh (also known as ISIL).”

kvs wrote:

Over time Russia will continue to get more powerful and there will come a day when it will start cleaning house in its neighbourhood.
If it lets regimes such as the one in Kiev stew in its own shit it won't have to do much cleaning.  People will be rushing to get its
assistance.

Yes, all true, was just having a rant, but the points pertinent as there must, and will be, and end to this endless game, and who knows, maybe in a few hours as ukrops again attack with only one hour left on the clock, unless all that Zakharchenko said was yet more from this "game"....

franco wrote:Total of 6 aircraft, other two not identified by the SAA. Australian military admits they were involved.

The Australian Defence Department is reported as saying:
“Australian aircraft were among a number of international aircraft taking part in this Coalition operation … Australia would never intentionally target a known Syrian military unit or actively support Daesh (IS). Defence offers its condolences to the families of any Syrian personnel killed or wounded in this incident … While Syria remains a dynamic and complex operating environment, Australia would never intentionally target a known Syrian military unit or actively support Daesh (also known as ISIL).”

OK, that's the first time I have seen 6 not 4 mentioned. That would be a pair of F-18s then.

We just have to be patient. The US is in deep trouble and there are zero signs of improvements underway. Debt is increasing amd congress is unable to base their military budget on GDP. They lost alot of trust with partners because of the exposed spying program, and the revelation of the NSA tools also exposed they attacked Iran with their worms causing billions of global damage.

Meanwhile the national differences between poor and rich are increasing, more people homeless or dependant on food coupons, huge racial problems are resurfacing.

Its main partner in the middle east - Saudi Arabia - are burning through their money reserves too and could be bankrupt early 2017 while still fighting with Jemen. China influence is growing and the US seems uncapable of reversing the articial Island conflict, Russian influence is growing.

In Europe we have several members with big problems, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy. All with huge debts and failing banks. Another sign is that multiple countries are revoking their gold supplies again,

US is getting desperate and these are the early signs of being in panic. As long as Russia keeps good control over their spending, efficiency, keep their cool and dont take the bait for a new 'military race' the US will self-destruct from the inside.

Syria is part of a bigger game, and a frozen conflict would be in favor of Russia.

calm wrote:

Channel 4 stooge tries immediately to blame it on Russia WTF

Russia should not deploy ground forces to Syria until T-14 is ready. T-14 has active kill that will render TOW missiles useless.

I am for giving Syrian people Russian citizenship. Russia allows dual citizenship. Russian citizenship will protect Syrian people from attack by Israel and America. No one dares bomb anyone who has Russian citizenship. Doing so will oblige the Russian military to attack. And no one dares to mess with the Russian military.

ultimatewarrior wrote:Russia should not deploy ground forces to Syria until T-14 is ready. T-14 has active kill that will render TOW missiles useless.

I am for giving Syrian people Russian citizenship. Russia allows dual citizenship. Russian citizenship will protect Syrian people from attack by Israel and America. No one dares bomb anyone who has Russian citizenship. Doing so will oblige the Russian military to attack. And no one dares to mess with the Russian military.

This seems to be a remarkably familiar writing style.

Welcome to this thread (again).