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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    KomissarBojanchev
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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #4 - Page 14 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  KomissarBojanchev Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:46 pm

    MC-21 wrote:

    Please don't share shitty computer voice videos. All they do is copy an article. Also they're shills trying to use low effort clickbait in order to get more money.
    avatar
    Austin


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    Post  Austin Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:26 am

    A few words about the engine "product 30"

    December 15Th, 0:02


    The publication " Air & Cosmos " published an article " Izdeliye 30 eqiupe le Su-57 ", which is interesting from abroad for testing the new Russian "second stage" engine "product 30" for the perspective fighter PAK FA. Thus, the article says that the second prototype of the Su-57 fighter (T-50-2) was used for the tests. The engine of the second stage for the Su-57 fighter ("product 30") was developed at the Lyulka Design Bureau under the guidance of Evgeny Marchukov and in cooperation with other major Russian engine building companies. The prototype of the Su-57 fighter (the T-50-2 aircraft, the on-board number "052") in flight with the engine "product 30" (c) Vesti-24

    For example, the company Salyut developed a high-pressure compressor, a combustion chamber and an engine nozzle "product 30" with a controlled thrust vector. The engine will be produced at PJSC "UDK-UMPO" (now there is produced engine AL-41F1S or "product 117C" for the Su-35S fighter). According to the manufacturer, gas generator "product 30" has a compression ratio of 6.7, air flow is 21-23 kg / s. The temperature of the gases in front of the turbine reaches 1950-2100 degrees Kelvin. Maximum Thrust is 17-18 tons, which is more than 15 tons for the engine of the "first stage" AL-41F1.


    Further development of the "product 30" engine will be stimulated by orders from Indians under the FGFA program, as the Indians do not want to equip it with the AL-41F1 engine installed on the PAK FA prototype.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3002080.html
    kvs
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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #4 - Page 14 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  kvs Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:06 am

    Austin wrote:A few words about the engine "product 30"

    December 15Th, 0:02


    The publication " Air & Cosmos " published an article " Izdeliye 30 eqiupe le Su-57 ", which is interesting from abroad for testing the new Russian "second stage" engine "product 30" for the perspective fighter PAK FA. Thus, the article says that the second prototype of the Su-57 fighter (T-50-2) was used for the tests. The engine of the second stage for the Su-57 fighter ("product 30") was developed at the Lyulka Design Bureau under the guidance of Evgeny Marchukov and in cooperation with other major Russian engine building companies. The prototype of the Su-57 fighter (the T-50-2 aircraft, the on-board number "052") in flight with the engine "product 30" (c) Vesti-24

    For example, the company Salyut developed a high-pressure compressor, a combustion chamber and an engine nozzle "product 30" with a controlled thrust vector. The engine will be produced at PJSC "UDK-UMPO" (now there is produced engine AL-41F1S or "product 117C" for the Su-35S fighter). According to the manufacturer, gas generator "product 30" has a compression ratio of 6.7, air flow is 21-23 kg / s. The temperature of the gases in front of the turbine reaches 1950-2100 degrees Kelvin. Maximum Thrust is 17-18 tons, which is more than 15 tons for the engine of the "first stage" AL-41F1.


    Further development of the "product 30" engine will be stimulated by orders from Indians under the FGFA program, as the Indians do not want to equip it with the AL-41F1 engine installed on the PAK FA prototype.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3002080.html

    The part about FGFA stimulating further development is total BS. Russia is the originator and financial backer of this project and not India. Russia has clear plans for the end stage engine which is currently under development.

    Judging by the temperature estimates, the large thrust increase and the lack of a significant NOx plume, it looks like the efficiency of this
    engine has been squeezed to the max. Like all heat engines, jet engines gain efficiency by having larger internal combustion temperatures.
    Higher temperatures also mean higher levels of combustion of hydrocarbon molecules so that CO and NOx output is reduced. (Ideal combustion
    would produce CO2 and H2O from any hydrocarbon fuel.)
    MC-21
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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #4 - Page 14 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  MC-21 Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:01 pm

    https://patents.google.com/patent/RU2460892C1/ru
    MC-21
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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #4 - Page 14 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  MC-21 Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:09 am

    The RosElectronics Holding started producing nitride gallium (GaN) transistors to create 5G communication networks and a new generation of radar systems. Experimental samples of devices have been tested in the structure of quadrocopters, radio stations and airport location equipment and are currently supplied to more than 20 enterprises for test operation.

    The new transistors have a high value of specific output power, a broad band of matching, a high value of breakdown voltages "drain-source". The output power of the devices is from 5 to 50 W, the power gain is from 9 to 13 dB, the drain efficiency is not less than 45% at the test frequency of 4 GHz and 2.9 GHz. Transistors are completely interchangeable with imported analogs, which allows you not to make additional settings in the equipment.

    The developer of products was Voronezh JSC "Research Institute of Electronic Technology" (as part of the holding company is part of the Concern "Sozvezdie"). The company is currently working to expand the range of GaN-transistors.

    The heteroepitaxial structures of GaN and solid solutions based on it are increasingly used in the field of radio and power electronics. The development of production of high-power GaN-based transistors is expected to lead to a significant reduction in the size of power supplies, adapters, and chargers. In particular, it will essentially reduce the mass and increase the efficiency of electric vehicles and hybrids. Microwave / GaN transistors in communication networks will increase the volume of transmitted traffic due to a larger frequency range.


    http://rostec.ru/news/4521887
    PapaDragon
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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #4 - Page 14 Empty Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

    Post  PapaDragon Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:53 am


    Holy hell, an actual balanced article about Su-57 in Western media!!!

    Russia’s Su-57 Stealth Fighter Completes Engine Upgrade and Continues Development Amid Business Concerns

    https://theaviationist.com/2017/12/22/russias-su-57-stealth-fighter-completes-engine-upgrade-and-continues-development-amid-business-concerns/

    Don't let title fool you, this one is worth a click.
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:03 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Holy hell, an actual balanced article about Su-57 in Western media!!!

    The author seems to be an independent amateur writer....maybe that's the reason
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:13 am

    Likely to be followed up with an article about how the Russians are superior in every way so the Pentagon needs to spend more money taking back the wests edge in weapons...
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:22 am

    54 million $ for a su 57 confused confused

    Even su30 mki is 75 million, this guy is clearly talking bs.
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    Post  Kimppis Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:32 am

    Isos wrote:54 million $ for a su 57 confused confused

    Even su30 mki is 75 million, this guy is clearly talking bs.

    I think the devaluation explains it. So a Su-57 "actually" (2013's exchange rate) costs around $100 million. The dollar price of a Su-30 for the Russian military has also been cut in half. Or rather it's totally irrelevant and misleading, they don't spend dollars, they spend roubles. So yeah, that's how the Russian military budget in dollars works. Totally makes sense and is sooo comparable to other/Western countries (not).

    It's really funny actually... Su-30SM must be even cheaper than that currently. So with the current exchange rates, I wonder how much the Russian military actually pays for a single Su-30SM, in dollars? It could be something ridiculous like $20 million. Yeah, $20 million for a brand new, heavy 4+ generation multirole fighter. "B-b-b-but I just looked at Wikipedia and Russian military spending is 15 times lower than America's and not even highest in Europe. The Russian economy is also smaller than Canada's or California's..."
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:26 pm

    Kimppis wrote:
    Isos wrote:54 million $ for a su 57 confused confused

    Even su30 mki is 75 million, this guy is clearly talking bs.

    I think the devaluation explains it. So a Su-57 "actually" (2013's exchange rate) costs around $100 million. The dollar price of a Su-30 for the Russian military has also been cut in half. Or rather it's totally irrelevant and misleading, they don't spend dollars, they spend roubles. So yeah, that's how the Russian military budget in dollars works. Totally makes sense and is sooo comparable to other/Western countries (not).

    It's really funny actually... Su-30SM must be even cheaper than that currently. So with the current exchange rates, I wonder how much the Russian military actually pays for a single Su-30SM, in dollars? It could be something ridiculous like $20 million. Yeah, $20 million for a brand new, heavy 4+ generation multirole fighter. "B-b-b-but I just looked at Wikipedia and Russian military spending is 15 times lower than America's and not even highest in Europe. The Russian economy is also smaller than Canada's or California's..."

    That doesn't change anything. Russia will have to invest a lot because it will cost a lot for them. It will be much more expensive than Su-30. For the export they won't offer such fighter for 50 millioon. Mig-29 bought by Egypt cost 45 million, and that's not even the Mig-35.
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    Post  Singular_Transform Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:44 pm

    Kimppis wrote:
    Isos wrote:54 million $ for a su 57 confused confused

    Even su30 mki is 75 million, this guy is clearly talking bs.

    I think the devaluation explains it. So a Su-57 "actually" (2013's exchange rate) costs around $100 million. The dollar price of a Su-30 for the Russian military has also been cut in half. Or rather it's totally irrelevant and misleading, they don't spend dollars, they spend roubles. So yeah, that's how the Russian military budget in dollars works. Totally makes sense and is sooo comparable to other/Western countries (not).

    It's really funny actually... Su-30SM must be even cheaper than that currently. So with the current exchange rates, I wonder how much the Russian military actually pays for a single Su-30SM, in dollars? It could be something ridiculous like $20 million. Yeah, $20 million for a brand new, heavy 4+ generation multirole fighter. "B-b-b-but I just looked at Wikipedia and Russian military spending is 15 times lower than America's and not even highest in Europe. The Russian economy is also smaller than Canada's or California's..."

    100 million 2013 $ actually worth 3 billion rubel .

    It cost three times more than a Su-34, two times more than a su35.

    Very expensive.

    Say they can buy 200 su35, or 100 su57.


    significant difference.

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    Post  medo Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:23 pm

    Isos wrote:54 million $ for a su 57 confused confused

    Even su30 mki is 75 million, this guy is clearly talking bs.

    I hope you un derstand the difference between prices for Russian MoD and for export. Export Su-35 cost 100 million $, domestic is far cheaper, so price of Su-57 being 54 million $ for RuAF is reasonable, but for export it will be far more expensive. Price of Su-30MKI is higher simply because it is export model and because it contain a lot of far more expensive western and israeli components inside instead of cheper russian ones.
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    Post  Cheetah Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:44 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Holy hell, an actual balanced article about Su-57 in Western media!!!

    Third paragraph talks of the 117s being underpowered. I was under the impression that the Su-57s design was physically smaller and lighter than that of the Su-27 family(It is... marginally), and on a regular mission, would carry less ordinance, hence avoiding the optional external pylons.

    My point being, the new engines were all about starting from scratch to producing something that was lighter, more efficient and cheaper. So this guy has already missed the mark on the design philosophy of the engines.



    EDIT:
    Though he does go into the other advantages later on, starting off by calling the 117s underpowered was wrong to begin with.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:27 pm

    Underpowered for Su-57, not underpowered in general

    Also, prices of aircraft that VKS pays are most likely hilariously low when compared to export prices which are inflated as hell just like every other military export product everywhere

    There is no way they will ever reveal actual number of course, it would be bad for export business
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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:49 am

    You can't compare the price of the Su-57 for Russia with the price paid for the Su-30MKI by India... for a start much of the components in the Su-30MKI are French and are bloody expensive. Second for Russia that is an export price... not a domestic price...

    And thirdly the Al-41 engine of the PAK FA was not a bad engine and certainly not under powered.

    Its performance was not limited by an engine that was not powerful enough.

    The new engine is rather better in many ways so will be a very good engine but plenty of aircraft went from being fairly ordinary to being rather good with a new engine... the P-51 Mustang is the obvious example but the F-14A compared with the F-14D... is another example.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:46 pm


    10th and final Su-57 prototype has flown. From now on it should be serial airframes (from what I can tell at least...)

    https://naked-science.ru/article/tech/sovershil-pervyy-polet-posledniy-su
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    Post  MC-21 Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:57 am

    PAK-FA, T-50: News #4 - Page 14 MN8ySiqY_o
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:13 am

    MC-21 wrote:PAK-FA, T-50: News #4 - Page 14 MN8ySiqY_o

    Whoah, that's 5-11 with two I-30 engines and serated engine covers on top. I assumed they would go with serated covers but this is quick and slick!!!

    Where did you get this photo?
    Neutrality
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    Post  Neutrality Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:00 am

    Damn, that looks absolutely amazing. I have the feeling that testing of these new engines might be completed sooner than initially stated.
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:14 am

    Neutrality wrote:Damn, that looks absolutely amazing. I have the feeling that testing of these new engines might be completed sooner than initially stated.

    Holy crap, check out nose section!

    It's low-res pic but I'm pretty sure that it's also serated.

    Looks like online stealth fanboys will be eating their own feces for decades to come Laughing
    Neutrality
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    Post  Neutrality Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:19 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    Holy crap, check out nose section!

    It's low-res pic but I'm pretty sure that it's also serated.

    Looks like online stealth fanboys will be eating their own feces for decades to come Laughing

    Interesting, what does a serrated nose mean precisely?
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:30 am

    Neutrality wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:

    Holy crap, check out nose section!

    It's low-res pic but I'm pretty sure that it's also serated.

    Looks like online stealth fanboys will be eating their own feces for decades to come Laughing

    Interesting, what does a serrated nose mean precisely?

    Angled edges are better at scattering radar waves, making nose serated means lower radar signature

    This just might be final physical appearance of the aircraft, paintjob notwithstanding

    Also, engine covers seem to be part of airframe now, they were add-ons before

    Exhaust flame color is purple now, it used to be blue with standard engines
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    Post  TheArmenian Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:12 am

    It is a photo shop.
    Sorry.
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:36 am

    TheArmenian wrote:It is a photo shop.
    Sorry.

    Fuck

    Posting photoshopped images should be permaban offense...

    Sponsored content


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    Post  Sponsored content


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