PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

I'm seriously in love:

Yup, she's a good looking girl, and I'll bet she's frisky where it counts...

..unlike that ugly fat bitch F-35 with her Hangar Queen mentality. A high-maintenance, arrogant, lazy cow who needs constant attention and who you'll need a second job simply to afford her insatiable appetite for the finer things of life.

That photo in post 606... does it have two different engine types?

Or is it just one engine nozzle in a different thrust setting...

The further away engine looks longer and the nozzle edge looks slightly serrated...

GarryB wrote:That photo in post 606... does it have two different engine types?

Or is it just one engine nozzle in a different thrust setting...

The further away engine looks longer and the nozzle edge looks slightly serrated...

It's clearly twi different engines. You can see the colours and the geometry is different.

I think the right one us the newest izd 30 being tested because it is shorter than the previous one.

GarryB wrote:That photo in post 606... does it have two different engine types?

Or is it just one engine nozzle in a different thrust setting...

The further away engine looks longer and the nozzle edge looks slightly serrated...

This is prototype 02, flying lab with prod. 30 on board! First flight was in December last year, though it is true that the new engine seemed shorter back then...

Are you guys sure... it looks to me that the further away engine is the longest and the one with the serrated nose cone for stealth...

Doesn't also have about 18 tons of thrust compared with 14.5 tons for the standard AL-41....

Another pretty good write-up in Drive, as you can gather from the title.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20434/no-the-su-57-isnt-junk-six-features-we-like-on-russias-new-fighter

JohninMK wrote:Another pretty good write-up in Drive, as you can gather from the title.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20434/no-the-su-57-isnt-junk-six-features-we-like-on-russias-new-fighter

Seriously, what is up with Rogoway lately with all these passable articles about Russian military tech? He is usually full of 100% BS.

First Offshore Patrol Vessel and now Su-57.

Did someone spike his koolaid?  

JohninMK wrote:Another pretty good write-up in Drive, as you can gather from the title.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20434/no-the-su-57-isnt-junk-six-features-we-like-on-russias-new-fighter

No, its the same old belittling BS, just with a few reality-based admissions that are delivered in a begrudging fashion... and then he compensates for his excursion into reality by reinforcing the usual talking points like inferior stealth, engine "issues", lack of sensor fusion, India doesn't want it... blah blah blah

Above all else, you have to give the Russians some credit for taking new risks with their design and incorporating innovative concepts into it, even if doing so came as a result of lacking critical low observable design knowledge and manufacturing capabilities.

Seriously?? "some" credit?... "lacking" knowledge?.... oh dear, what a fucking idiot. It should be crystal CLEAR that the Russians understand VLO technologies very well (its basic physics, not black magic), but they have judged that the costs of US-style stealth are excessive compared to the advantage obtained, and that new radar and sensor technologies will degrade that advantage further. Exceptionalist idiots like Rogoway just don't get it, and likely never will...

Big_Gazza wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Another pretty good write-up in Drive, as you can gather from the title.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20434/no-the-su-57-isnt-junk-six-features-we-like-on-russias-new-fighter

No, its the same old belittling BS, just with a few reality-based admissions that are delivered in a begrudging fashion...  and then he compensates for his excursion into reality by reinforcing the usual talking points like inferior stealth, engine "issues", lack of sensor fusion, India doesn't want it...  blah blah blah

Above all else, you have to give the Russians some credit for taking new risks with their design and incorporating innovative concepts into it, even if doing so came as a result of lacking critical low observable design knowledge and manufacturing capabilities.

Seriously??  "some" credit?...   "lacking" knowledge?....  oh dear, what a fucking idiot.  It should be crystal CLEAR that the Russians understand VLO technologies very well (its basic physics, not black magic), but they have judged that the costs of US-style stealth are excessive compared to the advantage obtained, and that new radar and sensor technologies will degrade that advantage further.   Exceptionalist idiots like Rogoway just don't get it, and likely never will...

Without wanting to be harsh on Rogoway, who has done some very decent analyses IMO, sadly you are right in what regards to anything that has to do with the Russians. It seems hardwired in many Americans that acknowledging any merit to Russia is intrinsically anti patriotic. In this case, Russians have been doing RCS measurements since decades and the mathematical basis of analytical VLO design was developed by a Russian, so yes, talking about their lack of LO knowledge while the American stealth fighters have a dismal availability rate of 50% or below (AFAIK the F-22 needs some 30 hours of work on ground per flying hour) is definitely absurd. To put it provocatively, if Russians manage to deploy an actual war-capable machine with the Su-57 instead an expensive toy like F-22 and F-35 they may well be the first ones in having a "real" 5th generation fighter in their arsenal.

Some thoughts about FGFA and Izd. 30:

https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/328127-no-deal-why-russia-wont-create-indian-su57

Big_Gazza wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Another pretty good write-up in Drive, as you can gather from the title.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20434/no-the-su-57-isnt-junk-six-features-we-like-on-russias-new-fighter

No, its the same old belittling BS, just with a few reality-based admissions that are delivered in a begrudging fashion...  and then he compensates for his excursion into reality by reinforcing the usual talking points like inferior stealth, engine "issues", lack of sensor fusion, India doesn't want it...  blah blah blah

Above all else, you have to give the Russians some credit for taking new risks with their design and incorporating innovative concepts into it, even if doing so came as a result of lacking critical low observable design knowledge and manufacturing capabilities.

Seriously??  "some" credit?...   "lacking" knowledge?....  oh dear, what a fucking idiot.  It should be crystal CLEAR that the Russians understand VLO technologies very well (its basic physics, not black magic), but they have judged that the costs of US-style stealth are excessive compared to the advantage obtained, and that new radar and sensor technologies will degrade that advantage further.   Exceptionalist idiots like Rogoway just don't get it, and likely never will...

I refused to read the article. He talked about sensor-fusion, stealth inferiority lol? Let me guess, the article is probably devoid of any talks of Su-57 installing ROFAR smart-skin sensor fusion suite (which KRET said will happen in the 2020's)? Just a friendly reminder ROFAR will give the Su-57 radar superiority even over NATO AWACS, it's been suggested by KRET that a ROFAR array the size of a compact car, would have the same radiating abilities of a 20-story OTH radar. I'm also guessing that there wasn't even any discussion of a EM opaque smoke generator that could be installed near the thrust nozzles?

Does anybody know with some certainty what kind of equipment is housed at the sting of the Su-57? Given the radiation symbol it is clear that some emitter is placed there, but it is unclear to me whether this is ECM equipment (apparently L402 uses the H036 RADAR antennas) or a proper rear-facing RADAR:

Hole wrote:L402 Himalaya ECM system.

Thanks for the answer Hole, there is very little detail available about L402

LMFS wrote:It seems hardwired in many Americans that acknowledging any merit to Russia is intrinsically anti patriotic.

That is where you are wrong. Seriously wrong. When I was active duty, we look forward to seeing Soviet jets. We have no problems giving praise where it is due. Of all the jets we hands-on examined, and we got lots of them, the exception that we really were negatively critical was the MIG-25. Belenko's defection was before my time, but our squadron was given a chance to see the full technical break-out of the jet and the -25 was a PoS.

LMFS wrote:In this case, Russians have been doing RCS measurements since decades and the mathematical basis of analytical VLO design was developed by a Russian,...

That is NOT true. I have Ufimtsev's text on my bookshelf. It certainly was not any sort of 'cookbook' for designing VLO shapes. If that is what you were implying. All Ufimtsev did was fleshed out the mathematical behaviors of reflections. Inferring any sort of military values to his work was the responsibility of the Soviet military and they fooked up. Live with it.

LMFS wrote:...so yes, talking about their lack of LO knowledge while the American stealth fighters have a dismal availability rate of 50% or below (AFAIK the F-22 needs some 30 hours of work on ground per flying hour) is definitely absurd.

This is where you are wrong. Seriously wrong.

If I tell you that it takes 5 man-hrs to tow one aircraft from one spot to another, would you believe me? Not likely. But that is what goes in the maintenance record and it is the truth.

You need the crew chief, tow truck driver, two wing walkers, and one tail walker. If you have no idea of what I just said, then your ignorance made my point. It will take at least 15-20 min to prep a jet for towing, then another 15-20 min to move it from one spot on the ramp to another, or to move it from the ramp to the hangar.

In peacetime, maintenance standards are high and QA roams the flightline. But in wartime, restrictions are loosened. Even those in civilian aviation maintenance do not take criticisms like yours seriously. You simply do not know what you are talking about.

LMFS wrote:To put it provocatively, if Russians manage to deploy an actual war-capable machine with the Su-57 instead an expensive toy like F-22 and F-35 they may well be the first ones in having a "real" 5th generation fighter in their arsenal.

You mean the Su is the real toy.