PAK-FA, T-50: News #4

littlerabbit wrote:
Excellent news! How many will be delivered in 2019?

miketheterrible wrote:
No fighter uses it. It's still all experimental.

Russia is moving towards making 15 - 20W GaN modules via Rostec in mass quantities for 5G networking which will be pushed for all over Russia and potential third countries via the big Telecom companies. The icing on cake will be reduced costs due to civilian use and will be purposed for radar systems of all type.

miketheterrible wrote:

Pierre Sprey wrote:

Has anyone ever taken this guy seriously?

If so, then they are in for a surprise.

miketheterrible wrote:Keypub became a joke like mp.net, so don't worry.

There are people who trash the J-20 openly too.

They just don't like competition.  Many people actually truly believe that its all shape and nothing else, so who cares.  They are stupid, end of story.  World has 7B people in it.  Out of that 7B people, I figure at least 80% of them are stupid.  And a lot of those stupid people also have internet.

miketheterrible wrote:Keypub became a joke like mp.net, so don't worry.

There are people who trash the J-20 openly too.

They just don't like competition.  Many people actually truly believe that its all shape and nothing else, so who cares.  They are stupid, end of story.  World has 7B people in it.  Out of that 7B people, I figure at least 80% of them are stupid.  And a lot of those stupid people also have internet.

Moscow. 4th of July. Interfax-AVN - The Su-57 fighter should be considered as a fine aircraft with export potential, but the main efforts should be focused on creating a transitional machine, the head of the State Duma commission for legal support of the development of defense industry organizations, the first vice- president of the Union of Machine Builders of the Russian Federation Vladimir Gutenev.

"I believe that the sixth-generation fighter will be a transitional vehicle between manned aircraft and unmanned intellectual shock complexes (BIOK) - in this case we are talking about aerial BIKU that can, thanks to their intellect, carry out the tasks set, including those that are sufficiently massive groups, "he said, commenting on the statement by Yury Borisov, Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation, that there will be no mass deliveries of the fifth generation of Su-57 fighters to Russia.

"I am largely in agreement with the words of Yuri Ivanovich (Borisov) about the fact that it is hardly worthwhile to expect a massive purchase of the Su-57," Gutenev said.

"Given the undoubted merits of this machine, we certainly understand that the program was launched in 2001, and the implementation of the program for a number of objective reasons was delayed (initially it was planned in 2006-2007 to conduct flight tests, and from 2014 already deliver in the troops), in connection with the very dynamic development of technology - this applies to the systems of electronic warfare, and new composite materials, and new opportunities that additive technologies provide in terms of constructive cheaper machines, "- konstestirov Al he.

"Well, of course, this is due to the fact that we have very sophisticated machines - the Su-34 and Su-35, which showed themselves well," said V.Gutenev. "Until 2023-2024 on the Su-57 is not supposed to install the engine of the second stage, the test of which has just started, it is" Product 30 ", and despite the fact that our car is much cheaper (according to my estimates, 2.5 times , than foreign analogues of the 5th generation), but still it is much more expensive and requires more fine services in comparison with the Su-34 and Su-35, "added V.Gutenev.

"Therefore, I agree with the opinion of Yuri Ivanovich (Borisov), according to which we already have experience, when thanks to reasonable technical policy we actually jumped through the generation, saving the budget to a considerable extent," he said.

"We were probably able to clarify a number of possible and accompanying data on the ability of the F-22 and F-35 to detect our aircrafts in the short-term stay of our Su-57 machines in February this year - telemetry provided an important reason for their improvement," - said V.Gutenev.

"Therefore, the concentration (effort) in the transitional, 6th generation, it seems to me, would be much more appropriate, and the 5th generation should serve in a small-series variant to develop technical tasks that would allow on the one hand to capitalize in foreign markets the costs incurred on this machine, and on the other hand - to improve the system (of prospective aircraft), "said V.Gutenev.

"This is an extremely rational and correct approach, ensuring a balance between the interests of the defense industry complex and the customer," he said.
The deputy believes that in the interests of the defense industry it would be "simply enough to form the export image of the Su-57 with the engine of the second stage."

"This is absolutely correct and pragmatic solution," he said.

Austin wrote:The Su-57 should be considered as an aircraft with export potential, and efforts should be concentrated on the creation of a fighter of the 6th generation - Gutenev

http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=485254

07/04/2018 15:40:54

     

Moscow. 4th of July. Interfax-AVN - The Su-57 fighter should be considered as a fine aircraft with export potential, but the main efforts should be focused on creating a transitional machine, the head of the State Duma commission for legal support of the development of defense industry organizations, the first vice- president of the Union of Machine Builders of the Russian Federation Vladimir Gutenev...............

     

PapaDragon wrote:

Austin wrote:The Su-57 should be considered as an aircraft with export potential, and efforts should be concentrated on the creation of a fighter of the 6th generation - Gutenev

http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=485254

07/04/2018 15:40:54

     

Moscow. 4th of July. Interfax-AVN - The Su-57 fighter should be considered as a fine aircraft with export potential, but the main efforts should be focused on creating a transitional machine, the head of the State Duma commission for legal support of the development of defense industry organizations, the first vice- president of the Union of Machine Builders of the Russian Federation Vladimir Gutenev...............

     

Bitch, you are barely able to make ones for yourself and you want to export it? Remember MiG-35?

You are incapable of finishing Su-57 on time and you want to develop some mythical 6th gen whateverthefuck?

And who would buy some shit that even it's own manufacturer refuses to use?

Where are they finding these Rogozin-type morons?

Navy, space and now aircraft sector. What else is going to shit next over there?

Austin wrote:The Su-57 should be considered as an aircraft with export potential, and efforts should be concentrated on the creation of a fighter of the 6th generation - Gutenev

http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=485254

07/04/2018 15:40:54

     

Moscow. 4th of July. Interfax-AVN - The Su-57 fighter should be considered as a fine aircraft with export potential, but the main efforts should be focused on creating a transitional machine, the head of the State Duma commission for legal support of the development of defense industry organizations, the first vice- president of the Union of Machine Builders of the Russian Federation Vladimir Gutenev.

      "I believe that the sixth-generation fighter will be a transitional vehicle between manned aircraft and unmanned intellectual shock complexes (BIOK) - in this case we are talking about aerial BIKU that can, thanks to their intellect, carry out the tasks set, including those that are sufficiently massive groups, "he said, commenting on the statement by Yury Borisov, Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation, that there will be no mass deliveries of the fifth generation of Su-57 fighters to Russia.

      "I am largely in agreement with the words of Yuri Ivanovich (Borisov) about the fact that it is hardly worthwhile to expect a massive purchase of the Su-57," Gutenev said.

      "Given the undoubted merits of this machine, we certainly understand that the program was launched in 2001, and the implementation of the program for a number of objective reasons was delayed (initially it was planned in 2006-2007 to conduct flight tests, and from 2014 already deliver in the troops), in connection with the very dynamic development of technology - this applies to the systems of electronic warfare, and new composite materials, and new opportunities that additive technologies provide in terms of constructive cheaper machines, "- konstestirov Al he.

      "Well, of course, this is due to the fact that we have very sophisticated machines - the Su-34 and Su-35, which showed themselves well," said V.Gutenev. "Until 2023-2024 on the Su-57 is not supposed to install the engine of the second stage, the test of which has just started, it is" Product 30 ", and despite the fact that our car is much cheaper (according to my estimates, 2.5 times , than foreign analogues of the 5th generation), but still it is much more expensive and requires more fine services in comparison with the Su-34 and Su-35, "added V.Gutenev.

      "Therefore, I agree with the opinion of Yuri Ivanovich (Borisov), according to which we already have experience, when thanks to reasonable technical policy we actually jumped through the generation, saving the budget to a considerable extent," he said.

      "We were probably able to clarify a number of possible and accompanying data on the ability of the F-22 and F-35 to detect our aircrafts in the short-term stay of our Su-57 machines in February this year - telemetry provided an important reason for their improvement," - said V.Gutenev.

      "Therefore, the concentration (effort) in the transitional, 6th generation, it seems to me, would be much more appropriate, and the 5th generation should serve in a small-series variant to develop technical tasks that would allow on the one hand to capitalize in foreign markets the costs incurred on this machine, and on the other hand - to improve the system (of prospective aircraft), "said V.Gutenev.

      "This is an extremely rational and correct approach, ensuring a balance between the interests of the defense industry complex and the customer," he said.
      The deputy believes that in the interests of the defense industry it would be "simply enough to form the export image of the Su-57 with the engine of the second stage."

      "This is absolutely correct and pragmatic solution," he said.

     

"Well, of course, this is due to the fact that we have very sophisticated machines - the Su-34 and Su-35, which showed themselves well," said V.Gutenev. "Until 2023-2024 on the Su-57 is not supposed to install the engine of the second stage, the test of which has just started, it is" Product 30 ", and despite the fact that our car is much cheaper (according to my estimates, 2.5 times , than foreign analogues of the 5th generation), but still it is much more expensive and requires more fine services in comparison with the Su-34 and Su-35, "added V.Gutenev.

Singular_Transform wrote:

Austin wrote:
     

      "Well, of course, this is due to the fact that we have very sophisticated machines - the Su-34 and Su-35, which showed themselves well," said V.Gutenev. "Until 2023-2024 on the Su-57 is not supposed to install the engine of the second stage, the test of which has just started, it is" Product 30 ", and despite the fact that our car is much cheaper (according to my estimates, 2.5 times , than foreign analogues of the 5th generation), but still it is much more expensive and requires more fine services in comparison with the Su-34 and Su-35, "added V.Gutenev.


     

There is the important part.
Let say he compare it to the f22, that cost 150 million, divided by two and half, and multiplied by 74 ( exchange rate) means the cost of each Su57 is 4.4 billion ruble.

It is three times more expensive than a su35.

So, you can choose to buy 100 su57 or 300 su35.

And he mention the more costly maintenance, means the pilots can train more on the su35 than on the su57.

Hole wrote:The Su-57 will be produced for the next 15 to 20 years. At least. There will be a mix of Su-30/-35/-57 plus Su-34 and MiG-35 and all this drones. Propably 12 Su-57 in 2020, 60 in 2025 and up to 200 in 2030. Nothing to worry about.

Azi wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:

Austin wrote:
     

      "Well, of course, this is due to the fact that we have very sophisticated machines - the Su-34 and Su-35, which showed themselves well," said V.Gutenev. "Until 2023-2024 on the Su-57 is not supposed to install the engine of the second stage, the test of which has just started, it is" Product 30 ", and despite the fact that our car is much cheaper (according to my estimates, 2.5 times , than foreign analogues of the 5th generation), but still it is much more expensive and requires more fine services in comparison with the Su-34 and Su-35, "added V.Gutenev.


     

There is the important part.
Let say he compare it to the f22, that cost 150 million, divided by two and half, and multiplied by 74 ( exchange rate) means the cost of each Su57 is 4.4 billion ruble.

It is three times more expensive than a su35.

So, you can choose to buy 100 su57 or 300 su35.

And he mention the more costly maintenance, means the pilots can train more on the su35 than on the su57.

The problem is...according to this interview, neither they will buy 100 Su-57 nor 300 Su-35. If the Su-35 is the better plane (costs) why not starting big mass production of Su-35? Why not focus years before??? You know how many Su-35 are active in RuAF NOW? So they are waiting for mythical 6gen fighter with take-off at best somewhere around 2030, starting mass production around 2040-2050? Yeah great! Wait...in this time western agressors will have over 1500 F-35 and don't forget the whole bunch of 4gen fighter and F-22...so let's say 200 or 300 Su-35 4++ gen stands against nearly 2000 5gen fighter....who would win?

It's clear that the Su-57 is more expensive than a Su-35, but it's a 5gen fighter! Russia should invest in the future and security.

Hey guys, don't be so naive...the clown in interview said the Su-57 is dead! At the other side he is not the man to decide something, so I have hope.

Pierre Sprey wrote:..

PapaDragon wrote:
.

They have the money and the capability. They are choosing not to you dumb fool. ....,

PapaDragon wrote:

I don't remember telling you anything so fuck off

Next time you want to insult people get a reason first




As for this moron and statement in that article: only reason Su-35 was purchased was to fill the numbers of fighter aviation since Su-57 was being delayed. They never wanted Su-35 but they had to get something to fill the numbers.

Now they have clowns lobbying to peddle more of them while they pocket the money they got from designing Su-57.

If they plan on sticking with 4gen aircraft then Su-30 is the one they will be getting because that one is already ordered in large numbers while orders for Su-35 stopped.

And excuse this asshole is giving is insult to intelligence: "We can make super airplane any time we want, this one is superior to enemy's but inferior for our amazing needs"

Bullshit of the highest order!!! You are barely making this one.

They have already abandoned Gorshkov frigates and Soyuz-5 rockets and now Su-57 is on the chopping block because it's "transitional product"? Transition to what? Soviet era hardware?

What's next to go out? My guess T-14 Armata because why bother with it when they will design Optimus Prime in 5 years to handle land warfare? In the meantime T-64 will do just fine because soon they will have Optimus Prime. Any day now...

They should just get rid of kevlar vests too. Troops can just exercise and have awesome abs which will deflect bullets.

Same logic.

miketheterrible wrote:Alright, let's clear some air here.

* Su-57 is to replace current T-10 platform (Su-27, 30, 35), with 35 being the last of the model.

* Su-57 is nearly ready for full production. It has only to wait on the engines. NPO ISTOk has already produced over 25,000 T/R modules from an interview over a year ago (so much more now) and so their radar system has been more than ready.

* We don't know the cost of per plane until we see a contract signed. Su-35 is at the ~$30M per plane mark much like majority of the other jets (Su-34, 30, MiG-35). Su-57 will be more costly at first but will eventually drop to the lower end in near future.

* Some are dreaming of 6th gen, but we don't really know what 6th gen is yet so no point talking about it.

* Current plan is for 12 Su-57's by 2025. That number can easily change since nothing is in writing.

Generational comparison is pointless. Current Russian jets are fitted out with abilities to combat 5th gen jets quite well. Mostly passive detection. That is how it is to be done for even Su-57, it's just a lot less visible than the previous jets. It's need is obvious but it isn't critical.

And I laugh at the 2,500 F-35 concept. F-35 while a decent opponent, no point in worrying about it. It's a F-4 2.0. it's a boat that flies with various problems but neat and stealthy. Which that can be combated rather easily.

Russia won't have thousands of Su-57's either. Their fighter fleet will be max 700 jets and bomber/intercepter fleet (Su-34 and MiG-31) will bring that to around 1,200 aircraft. Su-57 won't be replacing either the MiG-31 or the Su-34 in a long time or at all.

Edit: @Papa there are no new orders for any jet because the previous orders are not completed yet. Su-35 will be ordered in more numbers too.  You are right though, they didn't want it initially.

PapaDragon wrote:

Pierre Sprey wrote:..

PapaDragon wrote:
.

They have the money and the capability. They are choosing not to you dumb fool. ....,

I don't remember telling you anything so fuck off

c.