Iranian Ground Forces | News and Equipment

Posted it in the Russia-Iran Strategic Cooperation thread already, it was quickly buried by our pet troll however.

magnumcromagnon wrote:A wild Persian T-90MS appears:



New Iranian Karrar tank appeared like a T-90cm

I can hardly believe this   . Now the Iranians are being "copycats" like the Chinese?

Benya wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:A wild Persian T-90MS appears:



New Iranian Karrar tank appeared like a T-90cm

I can hardly believe this   . Now the Iranians are being "copycats" like the Chinese?

Ain't nothing wrong with that.

Neoprime wrote:

Benya wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:A wild Persian T-90MS appears:



New Iranian Karrar tank appeared like a T-90cm

I can hardly believe this   . Now the Iranians are being "copycats" like the Chinese?

Ain't nothing wrong with that.

You must be joking!

If someone would stole your tank design, how would you feel? I'm sure that there is no license agreement between Russia and Iran, so this is just a copy.

Guys it's a blurry picture out of an ad. the tank that fires during the same ad, is a T72S, nowhere near the T90. If Iran has this new tank, seeing it should be fairly easy. Let the smoke clear and we'll see exactly what it is. IMO it's a well dressed T72S with all the right cardboard at the right place.

Benya wrote:

Neoprime wrote:

Benya wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:A wild Persian T-90MS appears:



New Iranian Karrar tank appeared like a T-90cm

I can hardly believe this   . Now the Iranians are being "copycats" like the Chinese?

Ain't nothing wrong with that.

You must be joking!

If someone would stole your tank design, how would you feel? I'm sure that there is no license agreement between Russia and Iran, so this is just a copy.

What makes you think that Russia didn't just give them design with TOT, it's not like Russia could sell them T-90's any way due to the nuclear deal.

KoTeMoRe wrote:Guys it's a blurry picture out of an ad. the tank that fires during the same ad, is a T72S, nowhere near the T90. If Iran has this new tank, seeing it should be fairly easy. Let the smoke clear and we'll see exactly what it is. IMO it's a well dressed T72S with all the right cardboard at the right place.

Nothing stops Russia from giving the Iranians TOT, however there's great obstacles in directly selling hardware to the Persians. Giving TOT makes the most sense, so Russia could still profit on Iranian market with plausible deniability to boot!

magnumcromagnon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Guys it's a blurry picture out of an ad. the tank that fires during the same ad, is a T72S, nowhere near the T90. If Iran has this new tank, seeing it should be fairly easy. Let the smoke clear and we'll see exactly what it is. IMO it's a well dressed T72S with all the right cardboard at the right place.

Nothing stops Russia from giving the Iranians TOT, however there's great obstacles in directly selling hardware to the Persians. Giving TOT makes the most sense, so Russia could still profit on Iranian market with plausible deniability to boot!

ToT with what parts? ERA and subsystems for tanks are still under embargo. It's like learning to a kid to draw with out pencil, paper and eraser. This tank is just a mock up over a T72S. If this was something else the Iranian would have had this parading like they were in Jerusalem.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Guys it's a blurry picture out of an ad. the tank that fires during the same ad, is a T72S, nowhere near the T90. If Iran has this new tank, seeing it should be fairly easy. Let the smoke clear and we'll see exactly what it is. IMO it's a well dressed T72S with all the right cardboard at the right place.

Nothing stops Russia from giving the Iranians TOT, however there's great obstacles in directly selling hardware to the Persians. Giving TOT makes the most sense, so Russia could still profit on Iranian market with plausible deniability to boot!

ToT with what parts? ERA and subsystems for tanks are still under embargo. It's like learning to a kid to draw with out pencil, paper and eraser. This tank is just a mock up over a T72S. If this was something else the Iranian would have had this parading like they were in Jerusalem.

Who says you have to announce anything? The Pentagon can't even keep track of their mismanaged trillions (allegedly), their arms shipments (allegedly) nor could they track a Russian-Iranian transfer of technology. The US has no presence in the Caspian sea and is heavily reliant on satellites that have been known to 'skip a beat' when Russia makes a move strategically.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Guys it's a blurry picture out of an ad. the tank that fires during the same ad, is a T72S, nowhere near the T90. If Iran has this new tank, seeing it should be fairly easy. Let the smoke clear and we'll see exactly what it is. IMO it's a well dressed T72S with all the right cardboard at the right place.

Nothing stops Russia from giving the Iranians TOT, however there's great obstacles in directly selling hardware to the Persians. Giving TOT makes the most sense, so Russia could still profit on Iranian market with plausible deniability to boot!

ToT with what parts? ERA and subsystems for tanks are still under embargo. It's like learning to a kid to draw with out pencil, paper and eraser. This tank is just a mock up over a T72S. If this was something else the Iranian would have had this parading like they were in Jerusalem.

Who says you have to announce anything? The Pentagon can't even keep track of their mismanaged trillions (allegedly), their arms shipments (allegedly) nor could they track a Russian-Iranian transfer of technology. The US has no presence in the Caspian sea and is heavily reliant on satellites that have been known to 'skip a beat' when Russia makes a move strategically.

Jesus it's not about "slipping" a couple of ERA panels and a bunch of subsystems, it's about the statement you'd make with that. It would simply mean, we don't give a fuck about the sanctions regime. This is wrong plainly wrong and would have repercussions on both Russia and Iran. If Iran got all uppity about a public unveiling about the Russian operation in Hamedan, immagine how butthurt the Pentagon will show about "hurr durr forbidden arms transfer...hurr duurrrr".

KoTeMoRe wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Guys it's a blurry picture out of an ad. the tank that fires during the same ad, is a T72S, nowhere near the T90. If Iran has this new tank, seeing it should be fairly easy. Let the smoke clear and we'll see exactly what it is. IMO it's a well dressed T72S with all the right cardboard at the right place.

Nothing stops Russia from giving the Iranians TOT, however there's great obstacles in directly selling hardware to the Persians. Giving TOT makes the most sense, so Russia could still profit on Iranian market with plausible deniability to boot!

ToT with what parts? ERA and subsystems for tanks are still under embargo. It's like learning to a kid to draw with out pencil, paper and eraser. This tank is just a mock up over a T72S. If this was something else the Iranian would have had this parading like they were in Jerusalem.

Who says you have to announce anything? The Pentagon can't even keep track of their mismanaged trillions (allegedly), their arms shipments (allegedly) nor could they track a Russian-Iranian transfer of technology. The US has no presence in the Caspian sea and is heavily reliant on satellites that have been known to 'skip a beat' when Russia makes a move strategically.

Jesus it's not about "slipping" a couple of ERA panels and a bunch of subsystems, it's about the statement you'd make with that. It would simply mean, we don't give a fuck about the sanctions regime. This is wrong plainly wrong and would have repercussions on both Russia and Iran. If Iran got all uppity about a public unveiling about the Russian operation in Hamedan, immagine how butthurt the Pentagon will show about "hurr durr forbidden arms transfer...hurr duurrrr".

And why should Russia and Iran give a flying f*ck about what the self-anointed master of the planet thinks. Uncle Scam needs Iran to supply gas
to the EU. Qatar cannot do it. So there is only so much that the Scammer will do.

kvs wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Guys it's a blurry picture out of an ad. the tank that fires during the same ad, is a T72S, nowhere near the T90. If Iran has this new tank, seeing it should be fairly easy. Let the smoke clear and we'll see exactly what it is. IMO it's a well dressed T72S with all the right cardboard at the right place.

Nothing stops Russia from giving the Iranians TOT, however there's great obstacles in directly selling hardware to the Persians. Giving TOT makes the most sense, so Russia could still profit on Iranian market with plausible deniability to boot!

ToT with what parts? ERA and subsystems for tanks are still under embargo. It's like learning to a kid to draw with out pencil, paper and eraser. This tank is just a mock up over a T72S. If this was something else the Iranian would have had this parading like they were in Jerusalem.

Who says you have to announce anything? The Pentagon can't even keep track of their mismanaged trillions (allegedly), their arms shipments (allegedly) nor could they track a Russian-Iranian transfer of technology. The US has no presence in the Caspian sea and is heavily reliant on satellites that have been known to 'skip a beat' when Russia makes a move strategically.

Jesus it's not about "slipping" a couple of ERA panels and a bunch of subsystems, it's about the statement you'd make with that. It would simply mean, we don't give a fuck about the sanctions regime. This is wrong plainly wrong and would have repercussions on both Russia and Iran. If Iran got all uppity about a public unveiling about the Russian operation in Hamedan, immagine how butthurt the Pentagon will show about "hurr durr forbidden arms transfer...hurr duurrrr".

And why should Russia and Iran give a flying f*ck about what the self-anointed master of the planet thinks.   Uncle Scam needs Iran to supply gas
to the EU.  Qatar cannot do it.   So there is only so much that the Scammer will do.

Because Iran agreed to....

More images from Karrar

More:

I do have to hand it to the Iranians, they can pull off a decent copycat tank. But question is, will they actually develop it? Like the Zulfigar tank that was supposed to be the main tank of Iran.

The tank is not at T90 level and you can see it from the fact the RCWS is actually an external contraption, it is added to the outside of the turret. Furthermore the rear bustle is very long, which is, IMO strange since the Iranians don't have push through crammer like AMX56 tu use as external autoloader. The only possibility would be they have obtained LKZ blue prints for a drop-able bustle and crammer, but that is next to zero. Even the Chinese haven't gone that far. However Iranias have had T80 turrets from Ukraine and who knows what else. But this tank looks like a T90MS, it is not a T90MS.

KoTeMoRe wrote:Guys it's a blurry picture out of an ad. the tank that fires during the same ad, is a T72S, nowhere near the T90. If Iran has this new tank, seeing it should be fairly easy. Let the smoke clear and we'll see exactly what it is. IMO it's a well dressed T72S with all the right cardboard at the right place.

Why you seem so upset friend? You're acting like just because there are similarities between this tank (not even confirmed to be karrar yet) and T-series, that it must automatically be a copy etc. Even if we look at the tank below hard enough, we could see T series similarities:



Now this Iranian tank clearly shares similarities such as the toothed side skirts, number of wheels etc, but you can also see clear differences in this blurry pic. It's very easy for you to just make assumptions lie this is just a T-72 with heavy cosmetics etc, but can you substantiate that? You seem too upset. Why? If Iran think it is a good idea to take T series influences into its tank designs, that's something that should make our Russian friends happy. As that points to good features of Russian tanks.

Although there are similarities, people are jumping to conclusions here. Alot of tanks can look quite similar, this tank, if it even is the karrar, it does indeed have T- series influences such as side skirts etc however, there is clearly considerable differences. Look at tank below:



If you look close enough you could also see similarities between it and T-90 etc, however does that mean it is based on it?

Lets wait till karrar is officially revealed then we can do a proper analysis on its anatomy.

Persian wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Guys it's a blurry picture out of an ad. the tank that fires during the same ad, is a T72S, nowhere near the T90. If Iran has this new tank, seeing it should be fairly easy. Let the smoke clear and we'll see exactly what it is. IMO it's a well dressed T72S with all the right cardboard at the right place.

Why you seem so upset friend? You're acting like just because there are similarities between this tank (not even confirmed to be karrar yet) and T-series, that it must automatically be a copy etc. Even if we look at the tank below hard enough, we could see T series similarities:



Now this Iranian tank clearly shares similarities such as the toothed side skirts, number of wheels etc, but you can also see clear differences in this blurry pic. It's very easy for you to just make assumptions lie this is just a T-72 with heavy cosmetics etc, but can you substantiate that? You seem too upset. Why? If Iran think it is a good idea to take T series influences into its tank designs, that's something that should make our Russian friends happy. As that points to good features of Russian tanks.

Upset? Why should I be upset?

Iran had enough time to spirit a lot of elements to make a semi-viable tank upgrade from the ealy 90's until the current sanctions. Take the Khorramshar which was T72/T80 mix with a turbine. Yet Iran has to move over the T72S it still produces to this day. However there are three things that we can't assess as of now. FCS, Sensors and Gunnery. This tanks purports to show an elongated turret, does it have a new autoloader, the answer is no, the turret seems to be elongated to make up for the RCWS pedestal that sits behind the T72 turret. So basically this tank looks like something we know, but from the initial pictures, smells like something else, we know as well.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Persian wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Guys it's a blurry picture out of an ad. the tank that fires during the same ad, is a T72S, nowhere near the T90. If Iran has this new tank, seeing it should be fairly easy. Let the smoke clear and we'll see exactly what it is. IMO it's a well dressed T72S with all the right cardboard at the right place.

Why you seem so upset friend? You're acting like just because there are similarities between this tank (not even confirmed to be karrar yet) and T-series, that it must automatically be a copy etc. Even if we look at the tank below hard enough, we could see T series similarities:



Now this Iranian tank clearly shares similarities such as the toothed side skirts, number of wheels etc, but you can also see clear differences in this blurry pic. It's very easy for you to just make assumptions lie this is just a T-72 with heavy cosmetics etc, but can you substantiate that? You seem too upset. Why? If Iran think it is a good idea to take T series influences into its tank designs, that's something that should make our Russian friends happy. As that points to good features of Russian tanks.

Upset? Why should I be upset?

Iran had enough time to spirit a lot of elements to make a semi-viable tank upgrade from the ealy 90's until the current sanctions. Take the Khorramshar which was T72/T80 mix with a turbine. Yet Iran has to move over the T72S it still produces to this day. However there are three things that we can't assess as of now. FCS, Sensors and Gunnery. This tanks purports to show an elongated turret, does it have a new autoloader, the answer is no, the turret seems to be elongated to make up for the RCWS pedestal that sits behind the T72 turret. So basically this tank looks like something we know, but from the initial pictures, smells like something else, we know as well.  

You are just making assumptions and acting as if those are based on solid factual grounds. How do you know it does not have a new autoloader?  I do know about the history of tanks in Iran, which is why I think this is a new tank but obviously its design is influenced by the T-series considerably. Could I be wrong? of course.

However, best thing to do is wait till karrar is officially revealed. They will probably show some manufacture phase videos as well, then one would be in a much better position to judge its anatomy.

Look at the Karrarr's hull. It's a T72 hull, not a T90MS hull, you can see that APU and commo box from the T90MS are not in this tank.

Here T90 vs T90MS



Here APU+Commo Box on T90MS



We can start analysing this tank as soon as images with a better definition appear. But from what I see it looks just a make believe.

Persian wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Persian wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Guys it's a blurry picture out of an ad. the tank that fires during the same ad, is a T72S, nowhere near the T90. If Iran has this new tank, seeing it should be fairly easy. Let the smoke clear and we'll see exactly what it is. IMO it's a well dressed T72S with all the right cardboard at the right place.

Why you seem so upset friend? You're acting like just because there are similarities between this tank (not even confirmed to be karrar yet) and T-series, that it must automatically be a copy etc. Even if we look at the tank below hard enough, we could see T series similarities:



Now this Iranian tank clearly shares similarities such as the toothed side skirts, number of wheels etc, but you can also see clear differences in this blurry pic. It's very easy for you to just make assumptions lie this is just a T-72 with heavy cosmetics etc, but can you substantiate that? You seem too upset. Why? If Iran think it is a good idea to take T series influences into its tank designs, that's something that should make our Russian friends happy. As that points to good features of Russian tanks.

Upset? Why should I be upset?

Iran had enough time to spirit a lot of elements to make a semi-viable tank upgrade from the ealy 90's until the current sanctions. Take the Khorramshar which was T72/T80 mix with a turbine. Yet Iran has to move over the T72S it still produces to this day. However there are three things that we can't assess as of now. FCS, Sensors and Gunnery. This tanks purports to show an elongated turret, does it have a new autoloader, the answer is no, the turret seems to be elongated to make up for the RCWS pedestal that sits behind the T72 turret. So basically this tank looks like something we know, but from the initial pictures, smells like something else, we know as well.  

You are just making assumptions and acting as if those are based on solid factual grounds. How do you know it does not have a new autoloader? You also claim it is using a T-72 turret, what?? I do know about the history of tanks in Iran, which is why I think this is a new tank but obviously its designe is influenced by the T-series considerably.

However, best thing to do is wait till karrar is officially revealed. They will probably show some manufacture phase videos as well, then one would be in a much better position to judge its anatomy.

It's not assumptions, the RCWS is not set on the turret itself, but on a contraption over the bustle frame. This means that the autoloader cannot take place there, or that the tank has a very small ammou count. Which I seriously doubt. I already provided yo with enough hints as to what this tank looks like and what probably it is like.

If you want to believe that this is a brand new tank, then OK so be it. You are entitled to your opinion. Anyway, best luck to the Iranian army.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Persian wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Persian wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Guys it's a blurry picture out of an ad. the tank that fires during the same ad, is a T72S, nowhere near the T90. If Iran has this new tank, seeing it should be fairly easy. Let the smoke clear and we'll see exactly what it is. IMO it's a well dressed T72S with all the right cardboard at the right place.

Why you seem so upset friend? You're acting like just because there are similarities between this tank (not even confirmed to be karrar yet) and T-series, that it must automatically be a copy etc. Even if we look at the tank below hard enough, we could see T series similarities:



Now this Iranian tank clearly shares similarities such as the toothed side skirts, number of wheels etc, but you can also see clear differences in this blurry pic. It's very easy for you to just make assumptions lie this is just a T-72 with heavy cosmetics etc, but can you substantiate that? You seem too upset. Why? If Iran think it is a good idea to take T series influences into its tank designs, that's something that should make our Russian friends happy. As that points to good features of Russian tanks.

Upset? Why should I be upset?

Iran had enough time to spirit a lot of elements to make a semi-viable tank upgrade from the ealy 90's until the current sanctions. Take the Khorramshar which was T72/T80 mix with a turbine. Yet Iran has to move over the T72S it still produces to this day. However there are three things that we can't assess as of now. FCS, Sensors and Gunnery. This tanks purports to show an elongated turret, does it have a new autoloader, the answer is no, the turret seems to be elongated to make up for the RCWS pedestal that sits behind the T72 turret. So basically this tank looks like something we know, but from the initial pictures, smells like something else, we know as well.  

You are just making assumptions and acting as if those are based on solid factual grounds. How do you know it does not have a new autoloader? You also claim it is using a T-72 turret, what?? I do know about the history of tanks in Iran, which is why I think this is a new tank but obviously its designe is influenced by the T-series considerably.

However, best thing to do is wait till karrar is officially revealed. They will probably show some manufacture phase videos as well, then one would be in a much better position to judge its anatomy.

It's not assumptions, the RCWS is not set on the turret itself, but on a contraption over the bustle frame. This means that the autoloader cannot take place there, or that the tank has a very small ammou count. Which I seriously doubt. I already provided yo with enough hints as to what this tank looks like and what probably it is like.

If you want to believe that this is a brand new tank, then OK so be it. You are entitled to your opinion. Anyway, best luck to the Iranian army.  

I never said this is a brand new tank, I say it is a design which is heavily based on the T-series. I don't see the point of these speculations further. Just assumptions being made. Hopefully Karrar will be revealed soon then better judgement can follow. But I will say this again, it is not officially revealed what the tank in that video is, it probably is karrar but we can't be 100% certain.

Just to clarify things. Info about this "mysterious Karrar MBT"

New Iranian-made Karrar MBT Main Battle Tank unveiled by local television footage.

First footage of the Iranian Television "Telewebion" has unveiled the new Iranian-made Karrar MBT (Main Battle Tank) which is full designed and manufactured in Iran. The layout of the Karrar seems to be similar to the Russian made T-90MS but with some specific features.


The overall layout of the Iranian-made Karrar MBT seems to be similar to that of the Russian-made T-90MS MBT with the driver's compartment at the front, two-man turret in the centre and engine and transmission at the rear. The driver is seated in the centre of the hull.

According to our first analysis, the front of the turret and each sides of the hull are protected with explosive reactive armour (ERA) while the rear side of the hull and the turret are fitted with wire cage armour.

The suspension consists on each side of six dual rubber-tired road wheels with the drive sprocket at the rear and idler at the front. The upper part of the suspension is protected by side skirts.

The turret has a rear extension which can be the automatic loading system of the main gun. The main armament of the Karrar could be a 125 mm smoothbore gun. A remote weapon station is mounted on the top of the turret which can be armed with a 12.7 mm or 14.5mm heavy machine gun.

Banks of electrically operated smoke grenade dischargers are mounted either side of the turret.



Source:
http://armyrecognition.com/august_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/new_iranian-made_karrar_mbt_main_battle_tank_unveiled_by_local_television_footage_12608161.html

---

Well, it might not be a copy, but we need more info to judge whether is it, or whether it isn't

Iranian Qarrar before the modernization, A Safir with all kinds of ERA and bells and whistles.

https://twitter.com/klkamashiq/status/789502147419340800

Yes, I told you so.