Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Replace K with M, my bad on the typos there.

also, the 20386's are more than 300M each.

c'mon but 22160 is not 200mln $ this is like 7blns Rubles vs 2blns for 22800

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Replace K with M, my bad on the typos there.

also, the 20386's are more than 300M each.

c'mon but 22160 is not 200mln $  this is like 7blns Rubles vs 2blns for 22800

Anyway, the cost Russians are building ships for is 2-3 times less than western prices for similar ship.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Replace K with M, my bad on the typos there.

also, the 20386's are more than 300M each.

c'mon but 22160 is not 200mln $  this is like 7blns Rubles vs 2blns for 22800

22800 is a smaller ship and has fewer features, lacks the facilities for a chopper etc.

All the stuff the 22160 drives it up to that price if you want a modular ship it's going to be pricy.

Still for what the 22160 offers the price is pretty good for what it costs to make.

22800 is a small missile ship. It doesn´t need a helicopter.

Hole wrote:22800 is a small missile ship. It doesn´t need a helicopter.

I never said it did need one....

SeigSoloyvov wrote:
22800 is a smaller ship and has fewer features, lacks the facilities for a chopper etc.

All the stuff the 22160 drives it up to that price if you want a modular ship it's going to be pricy.

Still for what the 22160 offers the price is pretty good for what it costs to make.

still I cannot believe in 1:7 price ratio. 2x perhaps. Especially that "avionics", armament on 22800 isn't free either...

In every case if you find any other price mentioned for 22160 I'd appreciate thiis.

22800 is a small missile ship. It doesn´t need a helicopter.

Every ship benefits from having a helicopter...

Saving money is nice but having fully multirole ships is worth the extra money as it makes any group of ships much more capable and more flexible.

Obviously a corvette sized ship is not going to be as good at any job as a larger ship, but groups can make up for that... for instance a single corvette might have rather weak anti sub capability, but 3-4 of them operating together might actually be more effective than one large multirole ship... but of course having a helicopter would make them even better... especially a multirole Ka-226T type that could carry different role pods.

GarryB wrote:

22800 is a small missile ship. It doesn´t need a helicopter.

Every ship benefits from having a helicopter...

Saving money is nice but having fully multirole ships is worth the extra money as it makes any group of ships much more capable and more flexible.

Obviously a corvette sized ship is not going to be as good at any job as a larger ship, but groups can make up for that... for instance a single corvette might have rather weak anti sub capability, but 3-4 of them operating together might actually be more effective than one large multirole ship... but of course having a helicopter would make them even better... especially a multirole Ka-226T type that could carry different role pods.

Ka-226 is a light helicopter, never intended to be a real ASW helicopter. Bykov class is an OPV, but if so equipped might become a good ASW vessel.

kumbor wrote:

Ka-226 is a light helicopter, never intended to be a real ASW helicopter. Bykov class is an OPV, but if so equipped might become a good ASW vessel.

Ka-226 payload: up to 1100kg

324mm torpedo weight 250kg

It also needs dunking sonar, some sonar buoys and maybe a light radar. Could be done, but the range will be relatively low.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

kumbor wrote:

Ka-226 is a light helicopter, never intended to be a real ASW helicopter. Bykov class is an OPV, but if so equipped might become a good ASW vessel.

Ka-226 payload: up to 1100kg

324mm torpedo weight 250kg

For SaR role it could be nice on a carrier or future helicopter carrier. Ka-27 are big.

I guess this would be better than Ka-226:

Hole wrote:It also needs dunking sonar, some sonar buoys and maybe a light radar. Could be done, but the range will be relatively low.

still better then any on small ship.

Hole wrote:I guess this would be better than Ka-226:

why unmanned is better? it unlikely has longer duration of flight or payload

With the size/weight of the Ka-226 it would be. 2 people need a lot of space.

Hole wrote:With the size/weight of the Ka-226 it would be. 2 people need a lot of space.

but you cannot use it for SAR anymore.

These are from back during naval day period

Absurd to claim that the 22160 costs $200 million. For that money they can almost build a whole Gorshkov

flamming_python wrote:Absurd to claim that the 22160 costs $200 million. For that money they can almost build a whole Gorshkov

Yes, for 120-150 mio you get bigger and better equipped Steregushchy. On the other hand, 45 mio is incredible three times cheapper. The size and armament is not that worse on Bykov class. So perhaps, modular design and use of weapons that are already in mass production could explain the difference. Or the fact that it's not really a warship, but more of a large patrol craft for use against pirates, so it might be less stealthy, not made from expensive composite materials etc.

flamming_python wrote:Absurd to claim that the 22160 costs $200 million. For that money they can almost build a whole Gorshkov

I dont that modulatiry  (I mean hull) costs that much. Perhaps some sophisticated equipment not installed in patrol version?


in 2016 22800 was 6 blns rub

https://www.dp.ru/a/2016/05/10/Pella_peredaet_zakazi_



I have been searching but found no official data. Only price 9blns rub. What is possible  IMHO for ship with displacement of Stereguschy . Better sea worthiness and speed. Only armament is worse.

Note that Stereguschy is from 13 blns 20380 up to 29 blns for 20386...

It also needs dunking sonar, some sonar buoys and maybe a light radar. Could be done, but the range will be relatively low.

Modular Ka-226T could have a rear pod that contains a dipping sonar and a radar would be standard I would expect... it does not need to carry around torpedoes as the UKSK launcher can be loaded with mach 2.5 rocket propelled ballisticly delivered torpedoes if needed.

Tiny 324mm torpedoes could also be carried of course... they are less than 400kgs each.

GarryB wrote:

Tiny 324mm torpedoes could also be carried of course... they are less than 400kgs each.

MU90 - 300kg

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Absurd to claim that the 22160 costs $200 million. For that money they can almost build a whole Gorshkov

I dont that modulatiry  (I mean hull) costs that much. Perhaps some sophisticated equipment not installed in patrol version?


in 2016 22800 was 6 blns rub

https://www.dp.ru/a/2016/05/10/Pella_peredaet_zakazi_



I have been searching but found no official data. Only price 9blns rub. What is possible  IMHO for ship with displacement of Stereguschy . Better sea worthiness and speed. Only armament is worse.

Note that Stereguschy is from 13 blns 20380 up to 29 blns for 20386...

Stere is a bit more than 13B Rubles but that's a close price.

Has of right now 200M USD is the price for 22160's, maybe they will bump the price down in the future as they did with the karakut's and Stere's.

For right now though the ship is a brand new class and you will always pay more than normal for the first few hulls of a new class.

This is how economics works.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Has of right now 200M USD is the price for 22160's, maybe they will bump the price down in the future as they did with the karakut's and Stere's.

For right now though the ship is a brand new class and you will always pay more than normal for the first few hulls of a new class.

This is how economics works.

9 billions is 139 million $ for 22160 - up to 1500-1700 tons
6 billions is 90 million for 22800......- 800-900 ton

If they go down with prices it depends on Navy requirements I'd presume. If appetite grows with eating then price goes as with Stere up. BTW No wonder that 20386 is more expensive
compare displacement, ti's actually small frigate:

20386.................3,400 t
11356.................3,600t std

MU90 - 300kg

S3V guided depth charge = 94kgs

APR-3ME antisub missile = 475kgs

TT-4 air launched thermal powered homing torpedo = 380kgs

Couple of pics at Zaliv from https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/112711/