Russian Navy: Status & News #3

You mean fighters? Helicopters are also "aircraft". And they are all "warships", just different classes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warship#Types_of_warship
LHAs, LHDs, & TAKRs are hybrid ships as they perform many different tasks formerly given to more specialized ships, & can be converted further as ex-Adm. Gorshkov was. This article explains what I wrote in prev. posts: https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2280578.html

From the latest Veennaya Priomka (mMilitary Acceptance) TV series:

The UKSK cells on Admiral nakhimov

Unusual picture angle of BSF Tapir class LSTM Nikolai Filchenkov 152 returning from Tartus after 12days in the Med, its 6th Syria deployment in2017, transited the Bosphorus whilst operating in the Syrian Express.

Repair "Admiral Kuznetsov" has risen in price, and no money on the new aircraft carriers http://www.ng.ru/news/583283.html?print=Y#

Nezavisimaya Gazeta? Aircraft carriers were never part of the next armaments program, so how is that relevant anyway?

Kuznetsov is going to remain Russia's only carrier for some time, so they should really do a thorough modernization and be done with it. So hopefully it will get Kalibrs, fortunately that part is not confirmed either.

Although, I don't think its absolutely necessary... the main thing is to clean it up, stop the fucking smoking, overhaul everything... so that it doesn't look like shit. Because the vessel actually isn't old and Granits are still capable...

It was already stated that Shtrom wont be seen till past 2025. The best Russia will get by around that time are Helicopter Carriers. 1 to 2 of them. Kuznetsov is old and a lot of it will now be used probably for testing of newer tech for aircraft carriers so it becomes less of a hassle when it comes time past 2025.

Interview with the head of the USC during the St. Petersburg Forum 2017.
http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/

Main highlights:

-Kazan (second unit of Yasen class submarine) will begin sea trials this year
-Admiral Kuznetsov modernization will begin in 2018 and will last for 2 years
-Admiral Golovko (pr. 22350) will be launched end of year
-Super-Gorshkov (pr. 22350M) will be larger but still a frigate sized ship
-Lider Destroyer project is still on, but design will be changed because of Super-Gorshkov
-Priboy amphibious ship will be built, it is part of the State Armament plan
-Shtorm aircraft carrier is up to Defense Ministry

TheArmenian wrote:-Kazan (second unit of Yasen class submarine) will begin sea trials this year

Which comes to show they were better off building a few more Oscar-II and Akula-III well in 00s and 10s than having to settle for a risky design that gave them a boat every two decades. The Yasen class is a major headache.

What do you guys make of this https://neva.versia.ru/glava-peterburgskogo-oboronnogo-predpriyatiya-zaslon-okazalsya-krupnym-korrupcionerom
Seems to be a big corruption scandal around the company Barrier ex Leninist factory thats supposed to be making the radars for 20385/6.

Apparently there are leaked emails showing at least kickbacks between the boss of Barrier, boss of Almaz & Severnaya Verf shipyard, dodgy billing practices & very slow/non-existent progress on various important military programs including the Barrier radars for 20385/6.
Also referencing Chief Military Prosecutor who appears to have been investigating some of this since 2015.
Alleges state secret stuff passed on to a yank guy who was working there & has since been deported

KiloGolf wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:-Kazan (second unit of Yasen class submarine) will begin sea trials this year

Which comes to show they were better off building a few more Oscar-II and Akula-III well in 00s and 10s than having to settle for a risky design that gave them a boat every two decades. The Yasen class is a major headache.

Economic disaster of 90s was a major headache. Yasen class problems were just side effect. Platform is solid but money back then was not.

hoom wrote:What do you guys make of this https://neva.versia.ru/glava-peterburgskogo-oboronnogo-predpriyatiya-zaslon-okazalsya-krupnym-korrupcionerom
Seems to be a big corruption scandal around the company Barrier ex Leninist factory thats supposed to be making the radars for 20385/6.

Apparently there are leaked emails showing at least kickbacks between the boss of Barrier, boss of Almaz & Severnaya Verf shipyard, dodgy billing practices & very slow/non-existent progress on various important military programs including the Barrier radars for 20385/6.
Also referencing Chief Military Prosecutor who appears to have been investigating some of this since 2015.
Alleges state secret stuff passed on to a yank guy who was working there & has since been deported

we will have to keep an eye on this. It sounds like that there is indeed compromise on strategic systems like Su-34, MiG-31 and some other systems due to this head of "barrier". Hopefully the authorities obtained a copy of the leaks so they can close the place down and arrest those who need to be. The company needs to be split up at this point and divisions going to respective other companies who may use the resources from them.

It also explains delays.

TheArmenian wrote:Interview with the head of the USC during the St. Petersburg Forum 2017.
http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/

Main highlights:

................

-Lider Destroyer project is still on, but design will be changed because of Super-Gorshkov
-Priboy amphibious ship will be built, it is part of the State Armament plan
-Shtorm aircraft carrier is up to Defense Ministry

-So I assume Lider will be getting bigger as a result?

-Priboy is "Rotterdam type" ship. Who could be getting this contract?

-Why do people still talk about that Shtorm fanart? Seriously, it's not happening. But small carrier based on Lider could down the road.

Russian Navy, Mission Found?

https://blog.usni.org/2017/06/01/russian-navy-mission-found


Lots of praise about Buyans/Karakurts in the article but I know that you guys care about Blue Water stuff:

.....The Russian Navy’s non-nuclear and nuclear submarines increased their importance as a main strike force and a strategic non-nuclear deterrent. The latest edition of Russia’s Military Doctrine is explicit (Article 26) in stating conventional high precision weapons are a means for “force (kinetic) strategic containment”.[9] A single modernized Oscar will be able to carry up to 72 long-range land-attack cruise or antiship missiles—firepower capable of deploying into the ocean zone. The 3M22 Zircon missile may change naval warfare completely and it may happen very soon.[10] In twist, the future development of Russia’s carrier force may have been corrected precisely by what the Soviet and later the Russian Navy emphasized in its naval fighting views—long-range, stealthy and hypersonic antiship missiles......

.....But today, the Russian Navy can look realistically at the possibility of having two or three midsized (45-55,000-ton) aircraft carriers eventually added to the order of battle. It is yet to be seen if such plans exist or if they will be realized. In the end, the speed with which new weapon systems are being developed and procured is unprecedented. We are living in the missile age and the future development of missiles may finally spell the doom of massive strike carriers......

.....The Russian Navy’s main task is to provide a reliable defense of Russia’s shores and avoid war by presenting a defensive and forbidding posture. The Russian Navy is an organic part of the larger military force of Russia, whose only concern is preventing a global conflict. In this sense, the Russian Navy is completely integrated into the Russian tradition of national security, which spreads across the wide spectrum of activities, encompassing diplomacy, coherent foreign policy, intelligence and military force—a set of security imperatives erroneously dubbed in the West “hybrid warfare.”[15] Sergei Gorshkov prided himself on turning the Soviet post-World War II Navy into a modern fighting force by the end of 1960s. That fleet was called the “Raketno-Yadernyi,” the Missile-Nuclear Navy. Today, the Russian Navy is on its way to becoming a leaner and more potent Raketno-Yadernyi version of its former Soviet self, capable of carrying out any task in defense of its country. By doing so, the Russian Navy has finally found its mission.......

PapaDragon wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:-Kazan (second unit of Yasen class submarine) will begin sea trials this year

Which comes to show they were better off building a few more Oscar-II and Akula-III well in 00s and 10s than having to settle for a risky design that gave them a boat every two decades. The Yasen class is a major headache.

Economic disaster of 90s was a major headache. Yasen class problems were just side effect. Platform is solid but money back then was not.

Sure, but it's been over 12 years since the 2004 or so return to growth for Russia. Had they decided then to keep working on Oscars they'd have more than 2-3 subs in the water right now. Yasen is a fine sub but it's no good if there's barely one of them around serving.

KiloGolf wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:-Kazan (second unit of Yasen class submarine) will begin sea trials this year

Which comes to show they were better off building a few more Oscar-II and Akula-III well in 00s and 10s than having to settle for a risky design that gave them a boat every two decades. The Yasen class is a major headache.

Economic disaster of 90s was a major headache. Yasen class problems were just side effect. Platform is solid but money back then was not.

Sure, but it's been over 12 years since the 2004 or so return to growth for Russia. Had they decided then to keep working on Oscars they'd have more than 2-3 subs in the water right now. Yasen is a fine sub but it's no good if there's barely one of them around serving.

The usual "what if" discussion. It is a miracle that Russia came out of the 1990s and managed to rebuild its economy and managed
to maintain any military industrial capacity at all. It is quite evident from the behaviour of NATO leaders and their fake stream media
mouthpieces that they were anticipating that Russia would collapse even in 2014. Don't take anything that has been achieved in
Russia for granted and some triviality.

And isn't Yasen production picking up now? The first one was very much an exception, for obvious reasons. They're planning to commission roughly one boat per year from 2018 onwards. That way they'll be able to replace almost one third of the SSN/SSGN fleet with new subs before the mid-2020s. After that, the Huskey-class is supposed to be smaller and cheaper...

Kimppis wrote:And isn't Yasen production picking up now? The first one was very much an exception, for obvious reasons. They're planning to commission roughly one boat per year from 2018 onwards. That way they'll be able to replace almost one third of the SSN/SSGN fleet with new subs before the mid-2020s. After that, the Huskey-class is supposed to be smaller and cheaper...

It is picking up. Not breaking speed records of course but they will get to the finish line. Overhauled old boats can hold the fort until then.

Husky class can really be drastic step forward. Unifying two new types and adding hypersonic missiles on top of it can really solve many headaches for Navy for decades to come.

Economy did improve by 2004 but it wasn't until 2008 and Georgia that anyone thought of spending any more than bare minimum on military. So early 2010's would be time when money finally kicked back in for defense budget.





I asked this before: Is it possible to create SSBN on the same platform as Husky SSN/SSGN? Unifying all three nuclear submarine types would be revolutionary if doable. Would they go for it?

I asked this before: Is it possible to create SSBN on the same platform as Husky SSN/SSGN? Unifying all three nuclear submarine types would be revolutionary if doable. Would they go for it?

Borey already uses the same reactor as Yasen. Armement are the same too. You can put bigger sonars on SSBN as they are bigger. The thing is that SSBN needs to be strong enough to destroy ice in the arctic while SSN needs to be able to go deep. The geometry of the structure is different too. SSBN are big and their design is affected by missiles while the SSN is aerodynamic. They probably have already the same communication systems and same consoles and battle management systems, SSBN maybe need more things.

At the end I would say not totaly, share lot of things yes but share the same plateform no.

The SSBN is cheap, doesn't need to dive deep, simple, not fast and like a heavy bus.


The attack submarine are fast, deep diving expensive machines.

Make them common is a recipe for a financial disaster , like f35.

TheArmenian wrote:Interview with the head of the USC during the St. Petersburg Forum 2017.
http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/

Main highlights:

-Kazan (second unit of Yasen class submarine) will begin sea trials this year
-Admiral Kuznetsov modernization will begin in 2018 and will last for 2 years
-Admiral Golovko (pr. 22350) will be launched end of year
-Super-Gorshkov (pr. 22350M) will be larger but still a frigate sized ship
-Lider Destroyer project is still on, but design will be changed because of Super-Gorshkov
-Priboy amphibious ship will be built, it is part of the State Armament plan
-Shtorm aircraft carrier is up to Defense Ministry

Thank you.

It is a little rare, but here most of the problem is coming from the designations.

The last 25 years Russia has been selecting the best ships from the Sovietic fleet in order to keep them under an overall program of reduction of the fleet. Obviously Russia has been keeping part of the biggest ships of the fleet, making unlikely to see them disappearing. And today we see in the Russian fleet some Aircraft Carrier, Cruisers and Destroyers.

Today, the differences between types of combat ships are less in the concept and more in the size. Clearly separated by concept we have the Minesweepers and the Ambiphious Landing ships, and a little less clearly, the Aircraft Carriers (because also other ships are using some aircraft). All the rest of types of warships (Cruisers, Destroyers, Frigates, Corvettes and Missile Boats) seem to go by the same line (multirole, hydrodinamic,...), and today the difference between them seems to be more in the size, that allow to bigger weapons and to carry some aircraft.

Then, as expected, Russia is preparing also new projects of ships of the role and size of the ships that has been keeping in the fleet:

- In the cathegory of the Aircraft Carriers, Russia has the Project 23000E.
- In the size of the current Cruisers, with the Project 1134B being the smallest active or in the reserve, Russia has the Project 23560. But is being called Destroyer.
- In the size of the current Destroyers, with the Project 61/01090 being the smallest active or in the reserve, Russia has the Project 22350. But is being called Frigate. This case has been more difficult to see, because checking the size of this project it seems to be not agreement between the sources. Finally, this ship seems to be in the size of the current Destroyers (over the size of the smallest Destroyer), and even a new bigger variant is being planned. This seems to be finally the ship for this size.

Russian Navy, Mission Found?

Thats a surprisingly sane & fact based article! Bravo that man (possibly a career ending article)

Isos wrote:..........

Borey already uses the same reactor as Yasen. Armement are the same too. You can put bigger sonars on SSBN as they are bigger. The thing is that SSBN needs to be strong enough to destroy ice in the arctic while SSN needs to be able to go deep. The geometry of the structure is different too. SSBN are big and their design is affected by missiles while the SSN is aerodynamic. They probably have already the same communication systems and same consoles and battle management systems, SSBN maybe need more things.

At the end I would say not totaly, share lot of things yes but share the same plateform no.

Singular_Transform wrote:The SSBN is cheap, doesn't need to dive deep, simple, not fast and like a heavy bus.
The attack submarine are fast, deep diving expensive machines.
Make them common is a recipe for a financial disaster , like f35.

Thank you both for explanation, that one was bugging me for quite a while!

hoom wrote:

Russian Navy, Mission Found?

Thats a surprisingly sane & fact based article! Bravo that man (possibly a career ending article)

And now his watch has ended....

PapaDragon wrote:

Russian Navy, Mission Found?

https://blog.usni.org/2017/06/01/russian-navy-mission-found


Lots of praise about Buyans/Karakurts in the article but I know that you guys care about Blue Water stuff:

.....The Russian Navy’s non-nuclear and nuclear submarines increased their importance as a main strike force and a strategic non-nuclear deterrent. The latest edition of Russia’s Military Doctrine is explicit (Article 26) in stating conventional high precision weapons are a means for “force (kinetic) strategic containment”.[9] A single modernized Oscar will be able to carry up to 72 long-range land-attack cruise or antiship missiles—firepower capable of deploying into the ocean zone. The 3M22 Zircon missile may change naval warfare completely and it may happen very soon.[10] In twist, the future development of Russia’s carrier force may have been corrected precisely by what the Soviet and later the Russian Navy emphasized in its naval fighting views—long-range, stealthy and hypersonic antiship missiles......

.....But today, the Russian Navy can look realistically at the possibility of having two or three midsized (45-55,000-ton) aircraft carriers eventually added to the order of battle. It is yet to be seen if such plans exist or if they will be realized. In the end, the speed with which new weapon systems are being developed and procured is unprecedented. We are living in the missile age and the future development of missiles may finally spell the doom of massive strike carriers......

.....The Russian Navy’s main task is to provide a reliable defense of Russia’s shores and avoid war by presenting a defensive and forbidding posture. The Russian Navy is an organic part of the larger military force of Russia, whose only concern is preventing a global conflict. In this sense, the Russian Navy is completely integrated into the Russian tradition of national security, which spreads across the wide spectrum of activities, encompassing diplomacy, coherent foreign policy, intelligence and military force—a set of security imperatives erroneously dubbed in the West “hybrid warfare.”[15] Sergei Gorshkov prided himself on turning the Soviet post-World War II Navy into a modern fighting force by the end of 1960s. That fleet was called the “Raketno-Yadernyi,” the Missile-Nuclear Navy. Today, the Russian Navy is on its way to becoming a leaner and more potent Raketno-Yadernyi version of its former Soviet self, capable of carrying out any task in defense of its country. By doing so, the Russian Navy has finally found its mission.......

The author of that article is Andrei Martyanov.
He served on a Grisha class corvette during the cold war.
He lives in the USA and has his own blog. http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com
He knows about naval matters.

damn shame he moved to the US. Don't understand the fixation for a lot of them to move to US when a lot are returning home. But he is great source of knowledge.