T-90 Main Battle Tank

The T-90A has an APU. The T-90S doesn't.

IronsightSniper wrote:The T-90A has an APU. The T-90S doesn't.

If what you say is true then its surprising Bhishma did not opt for an APU.

The Bhishma opted out for many things :v

What is the name of this 950hp engine?

The V-92 fitted to T-90A tanks is a 1,000hp tank engine.

The T-90AM is hardly going to be fitted with an 840hp V84MS engine fitted to old T-72s when they are exporting 1,000hp V92S2 engines.

They were working on the V-99 which was supposed to be a 1,200hp diesel engine, so if they say they increased engine performance by 130hp I personally think it will be a 1,130hp engine they are using.

If you want to think that they are using a 1,070 hp or 1,080 hp engine that is completely up to you.

BTW I looked up wiki and it describes the V-92 engine as being 950hp and gives Jedsite as the source.
Don't know about you, but I had never heard of JEDsite before.

Every other site I go to and the V-92 is a 1,000hp engine...

IronsightSniper wrote:The Bhishma opted out for many things :v

Its a pity , we ordered 1600 T-90 can you imagine those figures it is substantially more then any country or even Russia has it.

I am just hoping they move to T-90AM as it would be logical to go for an improved variant considering the big numbers.

I think T-90AM would be the best bet considering it eliminates most of its weakness and improves on most of its strength.

GarryB wrote:What is the name of this 950hp engine?

http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-294.html

4

) T-90 later series, T-90A, T-90S - V-shaped 12-cylinder 4-stroke multi-fuel diesel V-92S2 turbo (upgraded B-84, different setting turbokonagnetatelya and improved design) production by CTZ (Chelyabinsk).
Power - up to 1000 liters. с. with at 2000 rpm (950 hp - In-92)
Dimensions - 1458 x 895 x 960 mm
Weight - 1020 kg
Working volume - 39 L
Specific fuel consumption - 170 g / hp. в час per hour
Coefficient of adaptability - 1.25

I see your blog site and raise you the makers of the tank:

http://uvz.ru/product/70/3

Scroll down to the section on the engine and it says:

Тип двигателя	В-92С2 (дизель)
Максимальная мощность, кВт (л.с.)	736(1000)

The (1000) is the horse power rating. 736Kw of power.

Its a pity , we ordered 1600 T-90 can you imagine those figures it is substantially more then any country or even Russia has it.

It is probably because the T-90 is your numbers tank that they didn't spend money on all the extras. They didn't buy Shtora either did they?

I am just hoping they move to T-90AM as it would be logical to go for an improved variant considering the big numbers.

The Russian Army will likely buy it because there is no current alternative.
The Indian Army is rather unlikely to buy it because it costs twice as much as the tanks they have bought so far.

I think T-90AM would be the best bet considering it eliminates most of its weakness and improves on most of its strength.

If the Russian Army orders it in enough numbers the price might be reduced and the Indian Army might consider adopting some of the features like the enlarged turret and bustle autoloader.

Would assume any exported model with T-90AM upgrades will be called T-90SM.

GarryB wrote:I see your blog site and raise you the makers of the tank:

http://uvz.ru/product/70/3

The (1000) is the horse power rating. 736Kw of power.

Believe the T-90C is an export model.

It is probably because the T-90 is your numbers tank that they didn't spend money on all the extras. They didn't buy Shtora either did they?

T-90Bishma is a frontline tank will be used in offensive formation , even Arjun is put in defensive role.

They didnt buy Shotra or APS becuase they wanted to go for global tender on those system.

The Russian Army will likely buy it because there is no current alternative.
The Indian Army is rather unlikely to buy it because it costs twice as much as the tanks they have bought so far.

Indian Army keeps in upgrading tanks and goes for upgrade model , like they are upgrading the T-72 about 600 off them and going for Mk2 model of Arjun , they well might go for T-90AM considering its being lic built here.

If the Russian Army orders it in enough numbers the price might be reduced and the Indian Army might consider adopting some of the features like the enlarged turret and bustle autoloader.

Yes it would help , but tank warfare in India is mostly in Indo-Pak context , so as long as Pakistan Army does not qualitatively upgrade its tank , we might see less incentive to upgrade existing one if its already good to meet its match like in case of PA it is T-80UD , the existing T-90 will have a edge over it and so will Arjun.

we might see less incentive to upgrade existing one if its already good
to meet its match like in case of PA it is T-80UD , the existing T-90
will have a edge over it and so will Arjun.

I would think the turret bustle upgrade would be worth it alone for the improved crew safety of not having loose ammo in the crew compartment.

Believe the T-90C is an export model.

Look at the engine designation... Тип двигателя
В-92С2 (дизель)

V-92S2.

Are you suggesting there are two V-92S2 engines in production in Russia... one for Export T-90S tanks with 1,000 hp, and one for domestic T-90A tanks with 950 hp that are both called V-92S2?

Or perhaps that blog is wrong.

Power - up to 1000 liters. с. with at 2000 rpm (950 hp - In-92)

What does the In-92 mean?

Does it mean that in 1992 the V-92 had a rating of 950 hp... the V-92S2 is the second improvement and has 1,000hp?

This would suggest that the current rating is 1,000hp and that increasing its performance by 130hp to 1,130hp when they were aiming for 1,200 makes sense. A 1,130hp engine is close enough to 1,200 hp to not bother further development to get the extra 70hp.

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product893.html

and from the horses mouth...

http://chtz-uraltrac.com/catalog/items/19.php

• Military Parade"
  
• Date:01-01-2000(MPD-No.001)
  
• Size:4,818 Kb.
  
• Words: 724
  

---

V-92S2 NEW TANK DIESEL

The Military-Technical Council of the Defense Ministry of the Russian
Federation has adopted an armor development and upgrading program. It
focuses on upholding the high standards of operational readiness of
armored forces, radical modernization of equipment (latest specimens
above all), creation of a new auspicious tank that would have an edge in
performance over existing foreign vehicles, and the gradual rearming of
army units with the new tank.
These tasks cannot be resolved unless an up-to-date engine is developed,
because the tank's effectiveness and mobility heavily rely on it.
The core of the Russian Army's armored forces and of the armored forces
of some foreign countries is the T-72 tank powered either by the 780hp
V-46-6 or 840hp V-84 MS diesel engine. Some time ago, these engines were
considered to have high performance characteristics.
Presently, the development trends lean towards enhancing the specific
power rating of tank engines in order to increase mobility of armored
vehicles and units.
A demand arose for a more powerful engine adapted specifically for the
T-72 tanks being modernized. The Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant JSC, which
has vast experience in designing and manufacturing diesel engines, took
on this project and in 1999 a new 1,000hp engine, designated V-92S2, was
created. The new engine has already been put through all types of
tests.
In June - July 1999, installed in the T-90S tank, this engine underwent
successful precontractory assessment tests in India. The tests were
carried out in arduous desert conditions, where the dust content in the
air was high and temperature rose up to +47 oC. The engine demonstrated
high reliability and good traction qualities.
Development work on more powerful auspicious engines is currently
underway at the plant. It is worth mentioning that for the T-72 tank
modernization, the V-92S2 diesel engine is unrivaled. To install it,
minimum modification of the vehicle's engine compartment and minimal
funding are required.

source: http://dlib.eastview.com/browse/doc/167893

Deputy General Director of JSC Scientific Production Corporation Uralvagonzavod Vyacheslav Khalitov

Some excerpts from above interview

What are the priorities in the development of tanks in the near future see the designers of the Ural Tank Forge?

In our country, when you create a military technology has become a priority for construction of an integrated family of not only military vehicles, but also the engineering, logistics based on a standardized chassis. The implementation of this principle allows us to solve a set of interrelated issues.

Under modern conditions of warfare is particularly acute problem of providing reliable and efficient administration, the interaction of tank and combined arms units. It lies in the contradiction between the speed of the basic management processes directly in the tank and in subdivisions.

Moreover, in modern combat sharply rising short duration of action in a cascade of increasing the flow of incoming information, the need for processing and decision-making by commanders of all parts of the extremely limited time. Therefore, in future designs of the samples tank equipment necessary to implement some new ideas.

On the one hand, we must raise to a qualitatively new level of traditional properties of armored vehicles: the firepower, mobility, security, and on the other hand, comes to the fore the need for its integration into the automated control system for tactical level. The solution to this problem can only be achieved comprehensive automation of management processes as a separate tank, and a division as a whole.

Today in the development of main battle tanks, we identify four major trends. Первая: масса танков прекратила расти. First: a lot of tanks had ceased to grow. All future projects, except for upgraded Israeli tanks Merkava created for specific theaters of war are the total mass in the range of 60 tons. We strive to fit into 50 tons.

The following trends have noted a slowdown firepower of tanks by increasing the caliber of the gun. For the next 20 years, the limit is seen the caliber of 140 mm, and the tanks will be mostly completed 120-125-mm guns. Growth firepower go the way of creating high-power ammunition.

- There is much talk about the T-90AM, which the media called a tank of new generation.Tell us about it.

-They improved on the traditional areas: upgrading of existing samples at their overhaul, creating and developing the production of promising designs.

For example, set up as an object of T-90 tank. It implements the idea of ​​designers and layout decisions. He goes into production, they equip the Armed Forces. In the future creation of new technology, there are design and technical solutions that can significantly improve the combat characteristics of the machine set up, and begins the process of modernization. The main thing that the tank had a capacity of modernization, that is, the conditions for setting innovations.

T-90 tank has such potential. Internal volume of the machine can produce significant change of its various components such as engine, fire control, armament and other aggregates, which greatly increase the combat capabilities. All this made it possible not only to complete the modernization of the tank in accordance with the requirements of foreign customers, but also to make three upgrades for the national army. By the way, the German tank Leopard 1 was seven modernizations, upgrades seventh place and a variant of Leopard 2A7.

The following trends have noted a slowdown firepower of tanks by
increasing the caliber of the gun. For the next 20 years, the limit is
seen the caliber of 140 mm, and the tanks will be mostly completed
120-125-mm guns.  Growth firepower go the way of creating high-power
ammunition.

So the makers of tanks in Russia are saying the future trend for Russian tanks is in creating more powerful ammunition for their 125mm guns????

But we know they have nothing newer than the BM-42M created in the late 1990s....    

GarryB wrote:So the makers of tanks in Russia are saying the future trend for Russian tanks is in creating more powerful ammunition for their 125mm guns????

I have the butt feeling that the new tank under development will start with 125 mm gun with powerful ammunition to take care of current threats and in the future they would make minor adjustment to the chassis and would upgrade the gun to 140 mm to meet future threats.

The current chassis designed in a way that it would take care of future growth potential in upgrading the gun from 125 mm to 140 mm without the need to design the chasis from scratch , they also have mentioned a tank for 50 ton category.

I think you mean a gut feeling.

I also think that they mention the 140mm calibre because they do not what to reveal info about the 15xmm gun they have developed that may have been rejected because it reduces ammo supply for the vehicle.

I think they will wait and see whether NATO goes for lighter tanks or if they continue with heavy armour... if they don't talk about their new bigger gun and NATO goes for lighter vehicle designs then they might be able to keep their current calibre which will save them an enormous amount of money and increase the available on board ammo reserve.

The advantage of the larger calibre is obviously that more energy can be pushed down the tube for more penetration and better range and the larger diameter means larger more capable HEAT rounds, and tube launched missiles can be far more capable and of course the possibility of tube launched UAVs starts to enter the realm of possibility.

The Smerch has a rocket launched UAV of 300mm calibre that can operate 90-120km away from the battery for about 40 minutes, obviously a tank launched system would not need to operate as far or for as long.

It wouldn't surprise me if the T-90AM has moved into the 50 ton class as it will have a larger turret and ARENA adds weight too plus of course the turret bustle autoloader will add extra weight, though that is good weight as it counter balances the weight of the main gun so that will actually improve the balance of stress on the turret ring.

I suspect the Armada chassis that replaces the T-90AM may have the propulsion at the front of the hull and have the turret at the rear with a very long very shallow sloped front hull armour to maximise protection from the front. I would think if they ever change to a larger calibre that an external gun with a larger turret ring would make the transition relatively straight forward.

Oh yes I mean gut , though they sound so similar a strong gut means a lighter butt

Yes he did mentioned engine on front and thats a very distinct possibility , the T-90AM would be in 50 T class for sure , 50 T class would be any where between 51 to 59 Ton and a 40 T would be 41 to 49 T and I doubt they would exceed beyond 49 T with all the changes considering Bhishma is 46 T

There is 0 information from the MoD that it is even interested in T-90AM.

There is 0 information from the MoD that it is even interested in
T-90AM.

So the MOD stance is that the T-90A is crap because of all the problems it listed... weak to top attack, likely to explode when penetrated because main gun ammo is stored in crew compartment, uses levers to drive with manual gears like a T-34... and now that all those problems and more have been addressed in the T-90AM they show no interest in it?

Perhaps UVZ should just build trains... I am sure they wouldn't get all this Sht from the customers they sell trains to.

The point is that if they want to meet their goal of 70% new stuff by 2020 they will be pushing Sht up hill if that doesn't include armour.

Their plans as far as I can tell aim for about 1,500 T-90 or up to date tanks, with a reserve of anywhere between 4,500 and about 6,000 tanks of similar design.

To get 70% of those to be new... well they simply can't do it unless they start building new vehicles soon and upgrading vehicles in storage.

They are talking about new tanks in 2015 or so based on new technology with electric drive etc, but until they are ready the question becomes do you start producing T-90AMs now and eventually make 4,500 of them so it is the second tank in the deployed and in storage setup, or do you p!ss around talking sht about T-34s and about how wonderful and incredibly cheap Leopards are for 5 years and then have upgraded T-72s and the new tank and skip the T-90s all together.

The problem is that the T-72s upgraded are cheap and share most of their components with the T-90 which is great for an inventory of T-90s and T-72s, but this new tank will be different so the commonality advantage goes away.

It seems the cheapest option is to do nothing till the new tanks are ready in 5 years time and then just make expensive but capable and cheaper but still useful versions of the new tank to replace everything.

The problem with that solution means that UVZ gets very little actual work for the next 5 years which will make reactivating them to produce the 6,000-7,000 new tanks they will need to build pretty difficult, and of course production capacity of that level is expensive to keep available with no orders... not to mention that orders in other areas like licence production of foreign and domestic small armoured vehicles and development and production of other armoured types that wont take 5 years to develop will mean that skilled workers will leave for jobs where they are actually building stuff rather than twiddling their thumbs.

Personally I think the only solution is to introduce the T-90AM as the new production standard T-90 and for orders of 100-200 new tanks a year for the next 5 years will create a reserve force of T-90s, which in addition to proper overhauls of existing T-90s to T-90AM standard and of course the upgrade of T-72s to the standard created for them will generate income in UVZ and allow more technologies to be bought and tested and developed.
When the new tank starts production then the upgraded T-72s in the best condition can be gifted to allies low on funds that could use them like Cuba or Vietnam or whoever and they can be replaced with the cheaper model of the new tank.

The new tanks design should be modular with perhaps a cheap turret and an expensive turret... the cheap turret is fitted for but not with expensive stuff and has cheaper domestic products fitted as long as they can do the job. The expensive turret could have licence produced domestic stuff and state of the art domestic stuff fitted.

All will have thermal sights and proper communications systems and battle management systems etc but there are 5 years between now and when the new tanks are ready which should be plenty of time to determine what features of each system is important and what should just be an optional extra... a nice to have feature that makes things easier but the tank could get by without it sort of thing.

Of course if they want capable and high tech then the Russian military just has to get used to the fact that high tech costs money and their new tanks and planes will never be cheap again.

I am of the opinion MOD will buy the T-90AM due to industry pressure ,export prospects and the fact that they tried to address issue with T-90AM tank and came with an excellent solution.

I dont think the tank manufacturer are just developing the T-90AM and Armata/Boomerang because they have nothing better to do in life and are slushed with money.

All are state funded program and would be ordered by state.

With the recent criticism of T-90 ( though most were just wrong ) the prospects of T-90AM buy in good numbers is much better.

Do the production line for T-90AM need retooling from T-90 production line? Maybe here could also be the answer why they didn't buy new tanks this year. If they buy new machinery, than MoD will for sure buy new tanks. No one is buying new production lines, which will never work and pay money back.

Why would you need retooling for an upgrade version of existing tank , its not a radical new tank like T-95 , so existing factories can build with with manufacturing improvements.

T-90AM was not ready and it was on trials , it just completed state trials , so ordering it was not an option , neeedless to say they desperately do not need a new tank right now hence they could afford to cancel T-95.

I had assumed there were no new tank orders this year because of the trials of the T-90AM were taking place and the T-90AM was intended to be the new standard T-90.
It doesn't make sense to build 60-70 new T-90As this year if the T-90AM passes and T-90AMs become the production standard.
AFAIK the changes to the T-90AM like the larger turret and turret bustle autoloader should not require new machine tools, but will require new turrets be made to upgrade existing older models.

I think an issue will be that because those suppliers that make things like Kaktus ERA will have been working like crazy to meet the needs of the Indian Army will have production capacity becoming available, but for example that new Russian air conditioner that was recently developed may have problems going from prototype and testing to full scale production and of course production of thermal sights will need to be boosted because so many air defence and other armoured vehicles and even aircraft are going to be wanting thermal sights.

If they buy new machinery, than MoD will for sure buy new tanks. No one
is buying new production lines, which will never work and pay money
back.

UVZ is a huge organisation with a cold war capacity to build thousands of tanks per year, but for the last 20 years they have been surviving on railway car production to keep going.
Retooling and building new production lines is not really an option unless you know what you are actually building. A production line is just that... a line. Now currently they have lines to make T-90As but to make T-90AMs they will need to change that line. First the part of the line that makes turrets will need to change the turret design to make the turret bigger and to add a rear turret bustle to the construction and assembly line.
The enlarged turret hatches will make things like installing equipment easier and if they do a good job they might effect other aspects of tank operation like making reloading main gun tank ammo easier and quicker, or the rear turret area where the autoloader feeds ammo in could also double as a convenient way to remove the main guns breach components if that were necessary for example.
New electronics will mean new wiring layouts etc etc, but lots of stuff will be very similar... though Kaktus will largely be built in ERA so it will be different.

New Tank "Armada" may appear in the Russian army in 2015

MOSCOW, April 28 - RIA Novosti. Tank next-generation code-named "Armada" will appear in the Russian army in 2015, told reporters in Moscow on Thursday, former first deputy chief control of the Defense Ministry Yuri Kovalenko.

"The new machine will be in the Army in 2015, if all goes smoothly," - said Maj. Gen. Kovalenko. According to him, in the tank "Armada" will be the new automation, new ammunition, he can shoot on the move, in motion, the crew will be separated from ammunition inside the tower.

"Such development is already" - the general said. Kovalenko said that this machine will be used achievements of previous generations, particularly the tank, "Black Eagle", which was planned to install automatic loader 32 shells per tower.

He also noted that the Defense Ministry refused to produce the T-95. Now, he says, goes further modernization of the T-90AM.

After all, T-90 was modified from T-72 and if production line is from times of T-72, than maybe they need to buy newer machines to replace old ones to get needed quality and quantity of tanks.

This is quite true, they have been exporting T-90s but not in huge numbers and from what I have read it has been its rail business that has been subsidising its tank business and keeping it alive for some time.
This can't continue for ever and the Tank side of the business has to start paying for itself.
A decent order from the Russian Army of say 200 T-90AM tanks per year for the next 5 years plus upgrades of 800 T-72s per year for 5 years will mean that by 2015 they will have just under 1,500 T-90 tanks (assuming about 420 or so existing T-90s of various models already in service), plus 4,000 upgraded T-72s for their reserve force would set them up to the force they wanted and it would be good for UVZ as well.
With that sort of order they could update their tools and retrain and keep working a skilled work force and would be ready for producing Armata in 2015.
They would also have their own funds to spend on Armata and subsidise their train segment of their business too.

The electric drive system would be beneficial technology to trains and armoured vehicles... and ship design too.