Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

lancelot wrote:

walle83 wrote:Well they didnt buy them to be used as a first strike attack weapon on Russia thats for sure.
If Russia doesnt want to have missiles fired at them, just stop attacking other nations. Its very easy.

So you say. But an air launched cruise missile wouldn't be that useful as a second strike weapon.
In case Finland was attacked by Russia, the airfields would be the first targets of an attack. And unlike the Gripen and Sweden's JAS system the US designed fighter platforms Finland has wouldn't even be able to operate from unprepared fields. It may be that Russia will decide it is safer for them to attack Finland first. Instead of risking being hit by a first strike from Finland in a larger NATO conflict.

Why on earth would Finland attack Russia? Russia it the nation that has a history of attacking its neighbors, not Finland.

walle83 wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

walle83 wrote:

lancelot wrote:

walle83 wrote:Dude you r giving me a headache. You sound like they do on Russian tv debates.
Did the IQ drop over the last months? Ever heard about the words Mutual assured destruction?

No, you are the one who doesn't realize the ones with the nukes won't be you. And Uncle Sam won't use the nukes if it can result on a strike on their own territory. Which is what will happen if they strike Russia.

No shit Sherlock, same sentence can be used for Russia.

If Russia launches anything at Nato members the result will be a third world war. And like I said not even Putin is that stupid and therefore no one cares about the Russian nuclear weapons.

Russia should be more worried about having a new historic long border next to Nato. If Russia cant handle Ukraine they sure hell cant handle the Fins with full support from the US.

Fact is that if Russia woudnt have attacked Ukraine Finland would never had applied.

Funny how things can come back in your face if you aint careful.

Russia is handling the Ukraine fine

Yes everything is going according to plan.....everything is perfect

No such thing as everything going to plan, it's simply handling the Ukraine fine give or take. The West was planning on using the Ukraine to drain and break Russia. Isn't working out that way.

Finland would be handled the same way, Sweden too, and no NATO assistance will be able to help them, their manpower and equipment will just be steadily ground-down while they're deprived of supplies and fuel.
Hence them entering NATO makes sense for their own defense, if we are to assume that a genuine threat of Russian invasion exists that they can't manage by say diplomacy or something like that.

Only problem is that NATO is not a defensive organization but a tool of US aggression. It acts to provoke the same potential conflicts it claims to solve. And now it's expanding its mission towards supporting US hegemony in the Asia-Pacific region too. So, do be careful what you sign up for, before Swedish soldiers end up dying in Korea, Indonesia or some place.

Why on earth would Finland attack Russia? Russia it the nation that has a history of attacking its neighbors, not Finland.

It is unlikely Finland would be that stupid, but as part of HATO Finland wont get much say in the matter... what history does the US and the UK and France and Germany and other HATO members have of attacking neighbours and also countries not even remotely near to them?

By the same measure when was the last time Vietnam or Cuba or North Korea or Iran attacked any country...

Finland would be handled the same way, Sweden too, and no NATO assistance will be able to help them, their manpower and equipment will just be steadily ground-down while they're deprived of supplies and fuel.

Sort of agree, but Finland would be part of HATO so within a few months or years of them joining most trade will cease and Finland will be considered a hostile nation... relations will diminish and embassies will likely be mutually closed with all communication via the US embassy I suspect.

If Russia has to fight Finland they will be fighting for survival so no need to be so nice as they are currently where they are trying to minimise the damage to the country and the people... they are eliminating a threat but also trying to preserve a neighbour... in the case of Finland what is there to preserve for Russias view?

It acts to provoke the same potential conflicts it claims to solve. And now it's expanding its mission towards supporting US hegemony in the Asia-Pacific region too. So, do be careful what you sign up for, before Swedish soldiers end up dying in Korea, Indonesia or some place.

They are already baiting the Bear and the Dragon seems to be much less scary... it has fewer nukes and many can't reach the US so they are useless in US terms.

walle83 wrote:

lancelot wrote:

walle83 wrote:And who they might use the missiles on...this says it all.
"JASSM is just as much a deterrent capability, as it is a strike capability. It makes the enemy pause and think twice about aggressive action, because it provides precision strike of a wide range of valuable targets."

Finland managed to have over 60 years of peace without such weapons. We will see how safe those weapons will make them.

Well they didnt buy them to be used as a first strike attack weapon on Russia thats for sure.
If Russia doesnt want to have missiles fired at them, just stop attacking other nations. Its very easy.

The Ukraine had 8 years to implement the peace agreement it itself signed

Instead it armed itself up and was constantly talking about taking the Donbass and the Crimea back by force

Putin didn't think of anything smarter than a pre-emptive attack. Nevermind

As for your pew pew pew pew JASSMs - understand one thing. It's Finland's right to have them of course, but that's besides the point. They're not there to win Finland a war with Russia or to deter Russia from a pointless invasion, they're there to make Finland part of the NATO defense/attack structure as a whole.
God forbid, there is a full-scale war - we'll get those missiles fired at us, take losses if we don't shoot them down, and that will be that. But those firing them will have x100 the amount of missiles fired at them back, and that's not an exaggeration. And people will die from them, no matter whether the aftermaths are allowed to be filmed or not and its all covered up, as in the Ukraine. Covering things up won't save anyone from dying to a Russian cruise missile.
So make your own judgements. No wunderwaffen missiles are going to deter Russia or destroy anyone's morale here if war becomes inevitable, and your leaders look barely smarter than the Ukrainian ones. None of this psychological warfare shit with doctored satellite photos and op-eds in the Washington Post, faked intercepted mobile phone calls to relatives - are going to work on us. What's saving you is that there are no ethnic Russian territories in Sweden or Finland to oppress and make miserable - hence nothing to really fight about. We can just agree to disagree and build some Berlin walls to isolate from each other. And you can buzz off from the forum because your attempts at destroying morale, displaying swagger and bravado, and scaring all the Russians into surrendering is not working either. We seen the enemy. It hammers picks into the eyes of its prisoners, it cuts the throats of unarmed men and unloads clips into them. It's a beast, and it has been trained by your NATO. This beast will be put down, and anyone who stands beside it along with it. End of.

What is the likelihood that the Russians will neutralize the finnish threat?

The-thing-next-door wrote:What is the likelihood that the Russians will neutralize the finnish threat?

None

There is no threat from Finland, only from NATO. But NATO would not openly attack, it will fight Russia only by proxy - and in regards to Finland there is no opportunity for any such proxy war. I don't think so, if we're being realistic.

Unless Finland reinstates its claims for its pre-WW2 territory, but this is unlikely.

So Finland's decision means that the 1992 treaty of Friendship is dead

The-thing-next-door wrote:What is the likelihood that the Russians will neutralize the finnish threat?

Not a threat frankly. They will be obliged to replace all their weapon for new once from US and will have an army half the size of what it is today like all the european armies that got divided by 2 or more from 1991.

I bet they will come up with something lile even their f-35 will be not compatible with NATO standard so they need a 5 billion $ program for their modernization and integration into nato.

The only threat it could be is if US start sending its own missiles there. But until today those two countries were de facto part of NATO and sharing intel with them.

Russian tupolevs are always detected first by Finland which call NATO as soon as they detect them so that Typhoons and tankers in UK gett ready to intercept them.  That's why they needed and developed a 4000km kh-101.

The one thing people do not seem to be considering is that the pindos seem to wish for another proxy war with Russia.

If Russia will not draw a red line on finland joining nato I guess the question will be if the pindos manage to push the fins into provoking Russia.

The-thing-next-door wrote:The one thing people do not seem to be considering is that the pindos seem to wish for another proxy war with Russia.

If Russia will not draw a red line on finland joining nato I guess the question will be if the pindos manage to push the fins into provoking Russia.

That's exactly the issue I addressed, but IMO through Finland there is no chance of starting one unless the Finns claim their pre-WW2 borders back again.

Then Russia should claim pre-WWI borders.

The-thing-next-door wrote:The one thing people do not seem to be considering is that the pindos seem to wish for another proxy war with Russia.

If Russia will not draw a red line on finland joining nato I guess the question will be if the pindos manage to push the fins into provoking Russia.

They are already doing it in Lituania. They are arresting people that bring flowers to commemorate soviet soldiers of WW2.

Once Ukraine is crush Russia will need to protzct russians there against nazis too.

Russia can't deter, so this happens. It's a simple equation.

The more weight and "respect" Russians give to that alliance, like the "security guarantees begging" and all the other failed appeasement of the last 30+ years , the more the few holdouts see it's the right choice to join.

Europe as a whole has taken a side. Doesn't matter what that side is, "evil" or whatever moralistic bs a dimwitt wants to focus on.... what matter is who the winning team turns out to be in the end. These countries have come to the conclusion that Russia can not deter them from making that choice (either militarily, economically or politically) and thus this very fact of NATO deterrence, something Russia has been active in creating by "respecting it" (and not attacking it aggressively to destroy that illusion), explains why, in their belief, they're making the right choice.

Appeasement is a losers game. Russians have and continue to play that card, again, and again, and again. As such, Russia will continue to be relegated to the "other", always the B team in the shadow of the reigning western empire of the time. All that was achieved in the "great patriotic war" with millions in blood was destroyed by the stroke of a pen, in self-imposed suicide. Don't know how many lives out of the 9 the Russian cat is at right now, but there aren't many left.

As for Russians living abroad and the broader demographic problem of Russia.

Every single individual in Europe that can trace Russian family lineage through parents or grandparents or great grandparents should have the ability, (in an extremely easy, streamlined process) to obtain a Russian passport/citizenship. The program should not be piecemeal.... and be broad...no matter the country they're in, now matter how much it upsets former Soviet satellites/NATO from brain drain or whatever else they bitch about. One way to lessen the load of having to keep all these satapries in line (and from flirting with Russia's enemies) is to absorb what is valuable to Russia, that is the people living in these satraps and their productive capacity. Russia has plenty of unproductive land, and almost infinite resources. #1 Job for Russia should be to be able to attempt to re-absorb as much of the population outflows (as possible) that it has had over a disastrous century plus due to wars and failed social experiments.

The benefits of such a policy far outweight the eventual abuse by the intelligence services of Russia's enemies that will abuse it to infiltrate assets for spying, influencing, or for terrorist activities. 100k, a million, several million new working bodies in Russia's economic engine, or connected to Russia and its orbit by reviving long lost ties far outweigh the negatives and it's not close. It's the job of Russia's security agencies to rise to the occasion and manage it like all great nations do.

Obviously it will be up to the economic authorities to make sure big influxes of immigrants do not solely seek refuge and employment in overcrowded Russian urban centers thus driving labor competition up, suppressing wages, and thus increasing poverty/crime.... but that's not a deficiency of the policy, that would be a deficiency of economic planners, and the lack of economic activity diversity in other undeveloped Russian regions (a most of Central/Eastern Russia is).

The Donbass experiment should be streamlined across the board, and not be subject to just particular jurisdictions. Will such a program yield success right away?... obviously not in all directions, and only the most needy in central Asia will disproportionately take advantage of it at this point in time but eventually, those in Europe, will take advantage when the house of cards there blows up... and Russia needs to be there at that specific moment ready to take the influx in - not just react in the moment and ready up some half ass policy.

Too many dimwitts in the Kremlin however...

It is funny we have all accepted that Sweden and Finland are joining HATO... mainly because it is Americas will that this happen and who could possibly go against Americas will...

Turkey.

Erdogan is not stupid and he knows adding these two countries makes HATO less safe rather than more safe... what will the west need to promise him to get their vote to start WWIII?

@Atlasclub

You talk about winning... Russia has been playing this game by trying to be a part of a euroasian state from the pacific to the atlantic... a partner to the west... but it is now clear the west just wants Russians dead... literally... and are supplying nazis and bio weapons and nuclear weapons to make sure that happens.

The next step will be the further promotion of nazism in europe... who knows who will get elected in 2033, but he wont have written Mein Kampf... just read it a million times and added quotes and bookmarks throughout it... it seems it is a natural trajectory Europeans follow.

But this will be it... when the gas fields that supply Europe have a pipeline going to China and onwards to the rest of Asia why would they waste their time negotiating cheap energy for Europe.

You can claim a win for the west but the goal of the west was to get free access to their resources, and the result of their actions they are losing cheap access to energy and Russia is going to look to the rest of the world for allies and trade partners... opportunity missed.

In a situation with a european country like Austria who are not hard core anti Russian despite US and UK efforts, an Austrian minister said that Gasprom needs to fill up the gas storage facilities in Austria or they would take matters into their own hands to get others to fill it up... what do they know do you think...

Russia will keep selling gas but BS like Kiev cutting off pipe flows... well how long will their patience last this time around.

Instead of praying and hoping a few NATO member countries voice their discontent and veto Sweden/Finland ascension..... instead of having a losers mentality, that is, be at the mercy of rivals decisions and infighting.... what should be happening is a comprehensive assessment of why Russia is unable to foresee, and successfully deter, and impede these events from happening that so adversely affect its security status. Obviously if you do then you'll be so disappointed at Russian leadership and their decisions that you may start to sound like a "hater".... instead of the partisan Russian fanboy you enjoy being.

Deterrence comes in all shapes and colors, it isn't just a nuclear arsenal.

The funniest thing about the incompetence of the Russian leadership is the idea that a neutral "Ukraine" is possible in line with the neutral Swiss, Swede, Fin model....(if only the Ukies do this to their constitution, and sign this paper here   )... only to find out how busted that model really is... which, as everyone knew during the Cold War, was all but a sham. Russians, as always, being desperate, give credence to "neutrality" and things that are a detriment to their interests out of fear and cowardice of doing what is necessary at the time and moment that the problem presents itself..... the usual follows....passing down the buck to the next leadership in line and thus allowing the problem to metastasize. The empire is merely showing how much a sham neutrality really is....and it does so in a public manner so the world over sees it, and understands it well.... and now Russians act in "shock"...... please....

Reactionary Fools deserve all the slaps of history they get. Professional victimhood and crying doesn't make up or solve these things. Neither does placing a nuke aimed at Helsinki or anywhere else.

As for Turkish or Croatian opposition:

Turkey is not seeking to outright shoot down the accession of Sweden and Finland to the US-led NATO bloc, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s top adviser Ibrahim Kalin told Reuters on Saturday. Nonetheless, Ankara’s concerns about organizations it deems to be “terrorist” that are operating in these countries must be addressed, the official said.

“We are not closing the door. But we are basically raising this issue as a matter of national security for Turkey,” Kalin clarified.

In the case of Turkey, they want the screws tightened on the Kurds  - easy fix. Merely transactional.
And Croatia owes its statehood, and current position in Europe to U.S/British/German intervention. Good luck with principled rebellion there..... it will last a couple of phone calls if at that:lol1:

Who's the next savior? Hungary?

Good luck.

Instead of praying and hoping a few NATO member countries voice their discontent and veto Sweden/Finland ascension..... instead of having a losers mentality, that is, be at the mercy of rivals decisions and infighting...

You are right and wrong all at once.

Russia doesn't have a losers mentality, they were mature and adult and assumed the west was the same but they were wrong.

They tried to cooperate and work together but the west wants a slave and not an equal, they have literally tried everything except capitulation but the thing is that they will never try capitulation.

Russia has no alternative but to pivot away from the west and look to the rest of the world for everything... in which case the status of Finland and Sweden in this little game is meaningless... the difference will be whether Russia sends Finland electricity and gas and if they are part of HATO they will have to pay in Rubles which they wont which means trade will stop and the borders will close and no doubt Finland will expose some Russian spying and kick out some Russian diplomats and Russia will respond in kind and eventually each will close down the others embassy which wont matter anyway because there is no trade any more and tourism is likely just as dead, so embassies are closed and borders will be closed and that will be it.

These new mini cruise missiles the Russians are designing with small conventional payloads would be small and cheap and simple so ground launched versions with tactical nuclear warheads would be ideal... have a train with hundreds of missiles sitting somewhere in the middle of Siberia.... any problems with HATO and it can roll over and start destroying the threat quickly and cheaply... they could be backup missiles with conventional warheads for use in Syria or perhaps the Kuriles... or whereever they are needed.

what should be happening is a comprehensive assessment of why Russia is unable to foresee, and successfully deter, and impede these events from happening that so adversely affect its security status.

Russia has bent over backwards and turned itself inside out to please the west and the only Russia the west wants to deal with is a broken Russia from the 1990s with a Yeltsin in charge that would sign anything put in front of him, which is not an option.

They have literally tried everything with each political party in the west and no solution.

The west does not want to be friends or even to trade in a civil manner... the west hates Russia.... and that is fine... the west can hate Russia, but they also need to realise that in such circumstances there is no point accepting investment from the west or allow the west to continue their objectives of damaging Russia and trying to impose a regime change on them... the rest of the world is out there wanting to trade and cooperate and after 20 years of the west slapping Russia in the face I think it is time for Russia to realise any future with the west does not make sense for Russia... no surprise... it doesn't exist for China either because the west wont accept a powerful China either... and most of the rest of the world the west is not ready to accept growing and developing to or even past their level.

There is a whole world out there of people who want to trade who are being kept down by the west and would love to trade with Russia and China and the West knows that and is scared... look at the western reaction to China making defence agreements with the Solomon Islands for goodness sake... they were panicking...

The funniest thing about the incompetence of the Russian leadership is the idea that a neutral "Ukraine" is possible in line with the neutral Swiss, Swede, Fin model....(if only the Ukies do this to their constitution, and sign this paper here  lol1 )... only to find out how busted that model really is...

When you say busted I think you mean corrupted and destroyed by the west, and I agree, what is going to happen in the Ukraine is a lot of regions are going to be pro Russia and a few regions will not.... very much a repeat of the breakup of Yugoslavia... most Yugoslavians would likely say it was never going to work, and I suspect the same for future former Ukrainians...

Reactionary Fools deserve all the slaps of history they get. Professional victimhood and crying doesn't make up or solve these things. Neither does placing a nuke aimed at Helsinki or anywhere else.

Russia is not the victim here... it is sorting out a solution for itself and it is keeping the house and the car and the holiday house and the west will likely get much much less than if Kiev had pulled its head in and just followed the Minsk agreements.

Who's the next savior? Hungary?

Good luck.

You don't get it... Finland and Sweden are deciding whether to join the US or remain independent and part of the rest of the world... if they choose HATO they will be much less safe because any provocation could get them involved in a war with Russia, but that is their choice... what membership will do is totally destroy all trade and relations they currently have with Russia and I am sure many are fine with that too....

So as you can see it is not a big deal... Russia is turning away from the west and towards the rest of the world... I suspect most Russian embassies in Europe will be closed over time from one side or the other... Russia does not need diplomats in the UK or France or Germany or other EU states... why talk to the working dogs or the sheep when the farmer is in charge... but when the Farmer is a  that wants you dead and bleeding then why talk to him either?

The rest of the world represents an enormous largely untapped percentage of the worlds population and is an enormous opportunity for them and for Russia... this is excellent because Russia would never have been able to break away from the west without western sanctions and stupidity... this turns Russia away from a trajectory of being like the US, so potentially being something better.

Finland will apply for Nato.

https://yle.fi/news/3-12446441


On Sunday afternoon, President Sauli Niinistö and Prime Minister Sanna Marin (SDP) announced that Finland will seek to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (Nato).

Swedish government officialy say yes to joining Nato.

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/socialdemokraterna-sager-ja-till-natomedlemskap

Looks like Finland and Sweden will share the same timetable now and will apply for Nato together.

Kiko wrote:With Ukraine and Belarus in a great Motherland concept in exchange of US' grab of Swedes and Finns is ultimately a big win for Russia.
Next step is long-range Tu-95 and -160 bombers exercises in the Caribbean area as a previous Kinzhal salvo launches exercise in the Arctic.

Ukraine doesnt seem to want to join that "great motherland" if you noticed.

walle83 wrote:

Kiko wrote:With Ukraine and Belarus in a great Motherland concept in exchange of US' grab of Swedes and Finns is ultimately a big win for Russia.
Next step is long-range Tu-95 and -160 bombers exercises in the Caribbean area as a previous Kinzhal salvo launches exercise in the Arctic.

Ukraine doesnt seem to want to join that "great motherland" if you noticed.

Doesn't matter, they'll be dragged by the hair kicking and screaming into Russia, demilitarized and denazified in the process. 8 years of shelling ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine for the benefit of European 'stability' is rather enough. And Europe will be cut off from cheap oil, gas, metals, resources of all stripes while Asia will be given first picks. Because Russia has no desire to feed a hostile Europe. It has no desire to see such a Europe at all, so it will help countries around the world ensure their energy, military and political security from the West and its interventions, color revolutions and other instruments of hegemony and economic exploitation. Once the Ukraine issue is settled - Russia will help North Africa and West Africa. It will help the peoples of the Middle East. It will help South America. It will help South Asia.
BTW Russia will expand into Moldova and Georgia too before this is all done. I'm talking about their breakaway regions of course, unless the West decides on some more bright ideas about how to provoke Russia.

The vanguard states ready to guard militarily against Western hegemony - Iran, Syria, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, Myanmar - will be given all the technology they need; without any of this supply M777 howitzers stunt w/o the fire control systems like the US pulled on the Ukraine There won't be any more Iraq invasions, or Libya interventions, or Syrian Civil Wars - not without severe costs to any aggressors and conspirators. And these states will in fact take a more pro-active role too I suspect with Russian help, no longer content to simply waiting around until Washington finds an excuse to bomb them.

China will be given all the resources it needs to ensure its place as the economic locomotive of the 21st century. In return for a fair compensation to Russia, of course.

Past and present allies and friendly states but those who are not set on seeking confrontation with the Western powers - will be sold technologies to and co-operated with on joint-projects too. India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, South Africa, Angola, C.A.R, Sudan, Egypt, Argentina, Peru, Bolivia, Algeria, UAE, Palestine, Serbia, Indonesia, Philippines. Just to help them maintain their independence and bargaining power in addition to any money made, because that benefits Russia.

Every single Russian political effort will be devoted to mitigating the threat against it and countering it by supplying and helping the threat's other enemies, of which there are many around the world, whether open or concealed.
And your entering Sweden and Finland into NATO is the best you can come up with. lol. You're going to have to do better.

flamming_python wrote:

walle83 wrote:

Kiko wrote:With Ukraine and Belarus in a great Motherland concept in exchange of US' grab of Swedes and Finns is ultimately a big win for Russia.
Next step is long-range Tu-95 and -160 bombers exercises in the Caribbean area as a previous Kinzhal salvo launches exercise in the Arctic.

Ukraine doesnt seem to want to join that "great motherland" if you noticed.

Doesn't matter, they'll be dragged by the hair kicking and screaming into Russia, demilitarized and denazified in the process. 8 years of shelling ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine for the benefit of European 'stability' is rather enough. And Europe will be cut off from cheap oil, gas, metals, resources of all stripes while Asia will be given first picks. Because Russia has no desire to feed a hostile Europe. It has no desire to see such a Europe at all, so it will help countries around the world ensure their energy, military and political security from the West and its interventions, color revolutions and other instruments of hegemony and economic exploitation. Once the Ukraine issue is settled - Russia will help North Africa and West Africa. It will help the peoples of the Middle East. It will help South America. It will help South Asia.
BTW Russia will expand into Moldova and Georgia too before this is all done. I'm talking about their breakaway regions of course, unless the West decides on some more bright ideas about how to provoke Russia.

The vanguard states ready to guard militarily against Western hegemony - Iran, Syria, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, Myanmar - will be given all the technology they need; without any of this supply M777 howitzers stunt w/o the fire control systems like the US pulled on the Ukraine There won't be any more Iraq invasions, or Libya interventions, or Syrian Civil Wars - not without severe costs to any aggressors and conspirators. And these states will in fact take a more pro-active role too I suspect with Russian help, no longer content to simply waiting around until Washington finds an excuse to bomb them.

China will be given all the resources it needs to ensure its place as the economic locomotive of the 21st century. In return for a fair compensation to Russia, of course.

Past and present allies and friendly states but those who are not set on seeking confrontation with the Western powers - will be sold technologies to and co-operated with on joint-projects too. India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, South Africa, Angola, C.A.R, Sudan, Egypt, Argentina, Peru, Bolivia, Algeria, UAE, Palestine, Serbia, Indonesia, Philippines. Just to help them maintain their independence and bargaining power in addition to any money made, because that benefits Russia.

Every single Russian political effort will be devoted to mitigating the threat against it and countering it by supplying and helping the threat's other enemies, of which there are many around the world, whether open or concealed.
And your entering Sweden and Finland into NATO is the best you can come up with. lol. You're going to have to do better.

Bringing those breakways territorys in to Russia, will only erode Russia. None has a Russian majority population. There is no enthusiasm fom the part of the Russia population on that as well. Besides the Russia budget can't cope with such an effort.

Both Abkazhia and South Ossetia should give away some villages to Georgia, in exchange of its independence recongniztion from Georgia itself. Shoould they join Russia? Not at all.

Ukraine, will be an EU member in the future. Given the chhange they won't think twice.