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Agriculture and Industry killing us

nomadski

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Post n°1

Agriculture and Industry killing us

nomadski Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:14 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_btU99fsX5o

The average height of humans , pre agriculture was two meters . Their diet consisted mainly of wild fruit and vegetables with a small amount of meat . Post agricultural revolution , the average height of humans were reduced to 1.7 meters . And their diet was replaced by farmed seeds . In the post Industrial period , we have been told to eat three square meals , containing from two to two and half thousand calories a day . This now consists of agricultural products . Processed and high calorie foods .

Progressive dieticians now tell us that we need no more than 1500 calories per day . And to avoid disease we need to get these from slow metabolising foods such as vegetables and a little bit of meat . With very little daily intake of processed carbohydrates such as bread or rice . Cutting out all raw sugar .

Of course your doctor or dietician may tell you otherwise . They believe in industrial medicine . And want to keep the profits of farmers and industrialists . Like a few years ago , smoking was not related to any cancers ! This problem affects all . But those who get a bit older , and are inactive suffer more . Health is 80 percent diet and 20 percent exercise . You don't have to eat three meals a day . You eat when you feel hungry . And you avoid agriculture .

Walther von Oldenburg

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Post n°2

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

Walther von Oldenburg Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:30 pm

Oh Jesus Christ... Rolling Eyes

Is this a parody topic? Laughing

1. Human height did decrease after introduction of agriculture but by 15 cm not 30. That initial shock was needed if humanity was ever to create civilization (productivity increasing technologies are unfeasible for hunter gatherer societies).

2. 1500 kcal is an absolute mininum for someone not doing physical labor... and very short. Test such diet on a 2m tall lumberjack in Siberia.

3. Link between smoking and cancer is known since 1930s, well known since 1960s. A study after study proved that.

Is medicine really so bad? Life expectancy at birth increased from 30 to 80 years, child mortality decreased from 50% to under 1%, multiple diseases that previosly had devastated entire societies have been eradicated... is that not enough?

nomadski

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Post n°3

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

nomadski Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:54 am

......"Walther von Oldenburg".......Oh Jesus Christ... :roll:
Is this a parody topic? :lol:

1. Human height did decrease after introduction of agriculture but by 15 cm not 30. That initial shock was needed if humanity was ever to create civilization (productivity increasing technologies are unfeasible for hunter gatherer societies).

2. 1500 kcal is an absolute mininum for someone not doing physical labor... and very short. Test such diet on a 2m tall lumberjack in Siberia.

3. Link between smoking and cancer is known since 1930s, well known since 1960s. A study after study proved that.

Is medicine really so bad? Life expectancy at birth increased from 30 to 80 years, child mortality decreased from 50% to under 1%, multiple diseases that previosly had devastated entire societies have been eradicated... is that not enough? .........."

I am serious about food . I have seen some very fat generals . Doing a lot of sitting work ! But also under sanctions , food is short in middle East . Even Iran . So new diet can help . With health and economy . Right so you agree that human height decreased . If we interpolate then in a few years we shall all be turned to slugs , crawling on the grass . But I am not talking about advances by medicine . That is good . But human lifespan is starting to decrease too . Despite medical advances . In USA for example with obesity and heart disease . Look at all these new Rock stars all dying young .

My ancestors living in the cacaus mountains , lived an average of 90 to 100 years old . That was over seventy years ago . In region with no modern medicine . They had treatments for their illness . All local knowledge . Recently I talk to my doctor about a problem And she said " your illness is genetic ! " . But I know that is rubbish . It is environmental and occupational and dietary .

I agree that an active person needs more than 1500 calories . But most of us do not have active lives . If I am right about a height correlation with agriculture . Then we should find the shortest people in earliest agricultural areas . And the tallest people in newly settled areas with recent agriculture . ( past two to three thousand years ) .

I am going to eat some low calorie cabbage today......

GarryB

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Post n°4

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

GarryB Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:00 am

Eat what you like.

IF you like fatty foods that is OK... but just be aware that if you have 5,000 Kalories a day you also need to run 500km a day too...

The real problem is that money talks... the dairy industry will pay for studies that end up showing milk and cheese and butter are good for you, and the meat industry will fund studies that show meat is good for you too.

I have heard all sorts of bullshit about eating meat... I remember one stupid bitch told me that red meat takes 3 years to digest in my stomach... to which I obviously replied that if it takes 3 years for red meat to digest then I must be shitting raw meat because the amount of red meat I have eaten in the last three years would fill a room in a house and sure as hell would not fit in my stomach... even though it is not as small as I would like it to be...

Eggs are good for you, and then they are bad... I don't fucking care... you have to die of something... I realise as you get older then age is relative... when I was a teenager the people I knew who were 30 seemed really old... now they obviously seem very very young.

I have never smoked... I remember friends who did say... yeah it might take 10 years off my life but they are 10 years off the end when I am like 90 and going blind and deaf and full of arthritis so it will be a good thing.

Of course I thought in addition to shortening your lifespan it also is very very expensive here, and also that it does not just kill you it makes you sick and can ruin the quality of life too... starting only a few years after you start smoking... morning coughs anyone?

The real problem is that there is no independent studies... they all get money from somewhere, which introduces bias.

For every study saying smoking is bad, there are studies funded by companies that make cigarettes that show there is no direct link and cigarettes are not addictive. Of course it is known nicotine is addictive but smoking company studies show that is not really proven beyond doubt..

BTW a persons height has nothing to do with their health... in the Savannah's of Africa then a long tall body maximises surface area to allow maximum heat loss during the heat of the day, while in other places being very short leads to pygmies being predominant... Eskimos tend to be shorter as that minimises heat loss in cold climates... but there is always going to be variation in heights even within a population.

nomadski

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Post n°5

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

nomadski Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:41 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet

Agree about everyone lying about correct diet . There are economic reasons for these lies . Like meat producers telling you there is nothing wrong with eating fatty sausages . Or grain farmers telling you that you need to eat cereal for breakfast . Or your doctor telling you to eat three square meals a day . This is industrial agriculture and industrial medicine .

There are religious and cultural reasons . For example many people in India worship cows as being holy . And therefore not to be eaten . Since they had been more useful to pull carts or farm the land . Or Muslims avoidance of pork . Has to do with agricultural diseases in primitive pig farming . Now no more . With farmed chicken proving to be more of a health hazard . But they are still eaten by Muslims and others .

The idea of health is more complicated and extended in definition . Than mere longevity . It is also related to reproductive health . This translates in humans as symmetry and proportion in body form , as well as height . That is why we find taller people more attractive . And they make good long distance runners . The modern equivalent of ancient hunters .

If we want to stay healthy . Then we are wise to remember that our evolution led to following a special diet . This diet was available to ancient humans . And our digestive system works best with it . This is called the paeliolitic diet . As well as this our lifestyle has become sedentary . So two things need to be done :

( 1 ) Activity level . You can measure how many calories you need in a day . This can be done using modern gadgets .

( 2 ) Food intake . You need to eat the calories you measure .

However the source of calories should be from foods that metabolise slowly . These are by and large non processed and none agricultural foods . Or foods that resemble largely their non agricultural/ Industrial ancestors . Sugar for example should be avoided , as it is highly processed food , quick metabolising , bearing no resemblance to natural sugars available in fruits . Carbohydrates should be minimal in processed form such as bread and rice . As these are collected by machines , in quantities never before available to man . Processed fatty meats and burgers again bear no resemblance to meat available to man in earlier times . Meat should not contain fat other than what is already part of the animal . This can be eaten and is slow metabolising . Veg and fruit should be eaten liberally .

Also people should eat when they feel hungry . Not at religious set times . This regimented eating is to serve interests of industry . People then feeling hungry , tend to overeat as a result . You plate of food should contain no added sugar but only what is present naturally .....( manufacturer of food lie about sugar content ) , carbohydrates should not contribute more than 30 percent of total calories . Good quality meat and fish contribute fifty percent . Veg and fruit twenty percent . But remember twenty percent calorie from veg means you plate is half loaded with veg . Like cabbage or cooked spinach .

PS . You do not need excessive exercise to stay healthy . Health is eighty percent food and twenty percent exercise . You can get as much exercise with a twenty minute walk as you can with a twenty minute run . Remember calorie burnt is work done . Or force times distance . You use same force to move same load .

GarryB

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Post n°6

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

GarryB Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:24 am

PS . You do not need excessive exercise to stay healthy . Health is eighty percent food and twenty percent exercise . You can get as much exercise with a twenty minute walk as you can with a twenty minute run . Remember calorie burnt is work done . Or force times distance . You use same force to move same load .

Really?

So that enormous fuel tank on the US space shuttle is just for decoration because its 500km trip out of the atmosphere should use the same amount of fuel as a Cessna subsonic aircraft flying 500km horizontally?

The faster you go the more energy you burn... this is magnified in water... try to walk the length of a 100m swimming pool and I guarantee you will burn more energy than if you walked the same distance beside the pool. Try to run in the water and you will burn even more energy.

You said yourself... work done is force times distance... if you run you increase the force so even if it is over the same distance if you run you burn do more work than if you walk... or ride a bike.

If you are talking about aerobic fitness, you are trying to say that raising your heart rate for 1 hour improves health... whether it is running or walking, but even then I would suggest there is a difference.

That is why we find taller people more attractive .

Thank you, but you wouldn't say that if you actually saw me in person...

nomadski

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Post n°7

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

nomadski Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:22 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cG_S_5sO-98

NOTICE HE IS MUCH MUCH TALLER !!

@GarryB

We burn the same amount of calorie , for moving the same load . If we move the load faster , say if we run , then we are not increasing the work done , but decreasing the time during which this work was done . We increase the power . And yes power can be an indication of health . But you ask ten people , if they find the body of a body builder attractive . They will mostly say no. And they will also reject as ugly the body of a long distance runner . Being almost like Auchwitz victim . But the body of a middle distance runner , with modest power , they will find most attractive .

Now , I will not be too worried about your looks ! A person's attractiveness has many sides . There is emotional health . And social health . As well as spiritual health ..........everything else being equal , the taller person is more attractive .

Since protein sources are becoming scarce . Especially in these difficult times . Does anyone know if vegetable protein like soya have any adverse effects ? Can they replace meat ? And feed the people ?

GarryB

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Post n°8

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

GarryB Tue May 01, 2018 2:33 am

They will mostly say no. And they will also reject as ugly the body of a long distance runner . Being almost like Auchwitz victim . But the body of a middle distance runner , with modest power , they will find most attractive .

Most westerners are over weight... does that mean only attractive healthy women reproduce?

In my experience it is the larger girls that put out more children... especially if they can get money from the state for doing so... passing on your genes if a gamble anyway there is no control and diet can ruin any good genes you get...

There is emotional health . And social health . As well as spiritual health ..........everything else being equal , the taller person is more attractive .

The problem is that inner beauty is hidden and all we have to go on is outer beauty... physically attractive people get talked to and hit on, while less attractive people who might be much better people are left sitting drinking... most guys would prefer Jessica Simpson on their arm.... as long as she kept her mouth shut... just because she is beautiful and fit, but when you went home and had to talk to her... a bit like living with a teenager...

I have not found my height to make me more attractive... in fact I have found my height has attracted a lot of insecure short guys who think they can impress their mates by knocking over a tall guy... it is a no win for me... either big guy too afraid to fight the little guy or big guy beats up little guy... what a bastard...

Since protein sources are becoming scarce . Especially in these difficult times . Does anyone know if vegetable protein like soya have any adverse effects ? Can they replace meat ? And feed the people ?

New Zealand has a huge meat industry... we wont run out of meat any time soon.

PS . You do not need excessive exercise to stay healthy . Health is eighty percent food and twenty percent exercise . You can get as much exercise with a twenty minute walk as you can with a twenty minute run . Remember calorie burnt is work done . Or force times distance . You use same force to move same load .

You didn't understand what I was saying... you can eat "unhealthy" food... high energy food... if you use that energy... If you sit on your arse all day at a keyboard in an office then chocolate bars might taste nice but they give you a lot of energy that you are not using up so you will start to gain weight as your body stores the excess energy.
If you are climbing mountains or walking across the continent of Antarctica then a chocolate bar is healthy and will help you maintain energy and body warmth for the journey. In fact a few expeditions would have succeeded if they had more high energy food for the people to eat on their way...

NOTICE HE IS MUCH MUCH TALLER !!

He is a cartoon character... if she is 1.2m he might only be 1.8m foot tall... which is not that tall at all.

nomadski

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Post n°9

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

nomadski Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:57 pm

In nature , if an organism spends more effort ( calories ) than it obtains ( calories ) from food . Then the organism starves and dies . I have thought about the value of work and how it could be measured in calories .

This is straightforward for workers producing agricultural goods . Since their products all have a calorific value . But what about industrial goods ? A brick does not have a calorific value , or does it ?

It has calorific equivalence . That is , a person living in a house , will need fewer calories as food to keep warm and stay alive than someone living in a tent . The savings in calories , taking into account the calories spent in building the house , determine the calorific value of the house .

This I think , is the most objective way of measuring the value of goods or work . And can form basis of a scientific and tangible currency .

So for the working public , it becomes a simpler matter to understand if they are being short changed or not . So we should discard little furry animals or bit coin or dollars as valid units of currency .

In nature , if biological interactions led to a net flow of calories from one species to another . Resulting in increase in number of one predator against prey . Then the prey species would die out . And predator will also die out . Therefore biological relationships must at least operate on equal exchange of calories .

@ GarryB

My concern was for countries like Iran . With poor rainfall . And difficulty in growing sheep and cattle for meat for people to eat . If New Zealand can break sanctions and export meat , then I love New Zealand !

nomadski

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Post n°10

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

nomadski Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:40 am

For countries under blockade , and net food importers. A new diet needs to be established . One that relies on domestically grown food . Is less energy intensive in production and processing . Needs less water to grow . And is more healthy to eat . In Iran , for example , people rely on eating only one or two grains . Namely white rice and white wheat . And they rely too much on animal proteins , instead of protein from pulses . Also in this circumstance , they need food supplement and vitamins to keep healthy . Some grains that can replace white rice and wheat are :

( 1 ) Quinoa .

( 2 ) Semolina .

( 3 ) corn meal .

( 4 ) Rye bread .

( 5 ) Oat cakes .

( 6 ) Brown rice .

( 7 ) Brown spagetti .

They can replace animal protein with veg protein :

( 1 ) Lentils .

( 2) soya beans .

( 3) Tempeh .

They must be educated to include half of daily intake with vegetables :

( 1 ) Cauliflower . Cabbage . Different greens .

( 2 ) Fruits high in anti - oxidants . Freely available .

( 3 ) A good high dose multi vitamins .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinoa

kvs

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Post n°11

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

kvs Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:33 pm

Modern nutrition and diet advice is a scam.

Most people consume way more calories than they expend on physical activity and body maintenance. But they are not getting
fat. That is because most people are able to turn excess glucose from carbohydrates into heat. Cells have insulin receptors
that induce them to uptake glucose and metabolize it giving off heat. There is lots of BS misinformation about how people
get fat by not leading some ideal diet and exercise regime. That is not the problem. About 25% of the population has
insulin resistance and a genetic predisposition to Type II diabetes. They are born with too few insulin receptors in their
cells, which requires more insulin to be produced by the beta cells in the pancreas. Unfortunately their cells retain
the ability to reduce the number of receptors if the insulin levels are too high. This results in a spiral of death where
over decades the number of insulin receptors goes down at the same time as the insulin required to balance blood sugar levels
goes up. Eventually so much insulin is produce that the beta cells start to die off from toxic side effects. This gives
Type II diabetes.

Insulin also happens to be the fat conversion and storage hormone. Just by the virtue of having excessive insulin responses
to every meal, people with insulin resistance tend to be predisposed to obesity. This has nothing to do with over-eating and
calories. It is a pure bio-chemical pathway bifurcation where "normal" people generate heat from the excess calories and
insulin resistant people generate fat. But not all insulin resistant people get fat, some stay very thin since the fat storage
cells are suppressed by high insulin levels. This depends on their genetics.

For a substantial portion of the population the diet advice they are exposed to on TV and in print media is 100% detrimental
and not suited for their needs. Insulin resistant people need to control their carbohydrate intake since it directly affects
blood glucose levels. There is no easy fix since 60% of protein is converted into glucose as well. So high protein diets are
not a magic bullet. The last thing that insulin resistant people have to worry about is fat intake. Fat does not make you
fat. The satiation mechanism for fat is extremely strong. There is no satiation control on carbohydrates and sugars and people
can consume them until their stomachs have no spare capacity. So the often yapped about calorie difference between starch and
fat molecules is an utter irrelevance. Most calories by far come from carbohydrate consumption.

The parameter to be controlled by insulin resistant people is the insulin spike in the wake of a meal. That means eating smaller
meals more often (for a given daily calorie intake). No processed foods full of glucose-fructose filler should be eaten. Increasing
the fat intake can help reduce cravings and hunger but we are not talking about a high fat diet. Some fruits are better than others
which includes grapefruit being of lower glycemic index than apples. Of course, exercise and physical activity are very important
since muscles consume glucose and a nice 15 minute walk after a meal reduces the insulin spike.

It is moronic how doctors take blood sugar readings during health check-ups and do not measure the insulin. You will only have
blood sugar levels problems when you are hitting Type II diabetes onset. There are decades before that time which can be used to
completely avoid Type II diabetes. It is not a disease that is guaranteed to occur if action is taken in spite of the fact that it
is genetic.

nomadski

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Post n°12

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

nomadski Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:26 pm

A comprehensive report . Are you a dietician ? I agree with everything you said . Where I have a problem , is with attributing disease process to genetics alone . Have they discovered the diabetic genes? I remember the argument of nurture versus nature . But this argument is false . It assumes somehow that the human body is isolated from the environment or nature . The way the argument should be stated as a complex of environmental changes .

But this diabetes is not a human body disease . It is malnutrition . Or poisoning . By industrial agriculture . This diabetes II , is reversible and curable. By correct diet . Pre agricultural diet . Healthy people can avoid disease process by following correct diet . It is not difficult . Also it enables countries under sanctions , to feed people with greater ease and cost , relying on greater number of unprocessed grains . Vegetables . Pulses . Little meat or fat . Seeds and berries. Stone age diet .

kvs

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Post n°13

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

kvs Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:33 pm

nomadski wrote:A comprehensive report . Are you a dietician ? I agree with everything you said . Where I have a problem , is with attributing disease process to genetics alone . Have they discovered the diabetic genes? I remember the argument of nurture versus nature . But this argument is false . It assumes somehow that the human body is isolated from the environment or nature . The way the argument should be stated as a complex of environmental changes .

But this diabetes is not a human body disease . It is malnutrition . Or poisoning . By industrial agriculture . This diabetes II , is reversible and curable. By correct diet . Pre agricultural diet . Healthy people can avoid disease process by following correct diet . It is not difficult . Also it enables countries under sanctions , to feed people with greater ease and cost , relying on greater number of unprocessed grains . Vegetables . Pulses . Little meat or fat . Seeds and berries. Stone age diet .

I have done a lot of reading on the subject. Both my parents and grand-parents are Type II diabetics. It is a genetic disease since
it is all about insulin resistance. If you have no family history of Type II diabetes then your chances of getting are basically nil.
Of course, gross over consumption of carbohydrates can induce the insulin spiral of death I mention. So genetics are not necessary to
get Type II diabetes. But most people do not eat themselves into oblivion. I hate journalists who insinuate that obesity is all about
guzzling calories and sitting in front of the fridge all day. I find that I am exercise resistant: it takes me a long time to take
off weight gain even with substantial exercise. By contrast, my colleauges can drop holiday binging weight gain in a month without
much effort.

Type II diabetes is avoidable but not curable. The dead pancreatic beta cells don't come back to life. So insulin injections are
necessary. Don't go to a family doctor or "dietician" for diet advice. Read some books by actual doctors and experts who are not
peddling the Big Agro and Big Pharma koolaid. Good authors are:

Robert Atkins
Gary Taubes

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/science

I don't necessarily support the commercialization of this science. But the food pyramid is not something people should use to plan
their meals. And breakfast is not the most important meal of the day. It can skipped altogether. Humans never evolved to have
their digestive tract to be loaded 100% of the time.

DerWolf

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Post n°14

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

DerWolf Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:38 pm

kvs wrote:Modern nutrition and diet advice is a scam.

Most people consume way more calories than they expend on physical activity and body maintenance. But they are not getting
fat. That is because most people are able to turn excess glucose from carbohydrates into heat. Cells have insulin receptors
that induce them to uptake glucose and metabolize it giving off heat. There is lots of BS misinformation about how people
get fat by not leading some ideal diet and exercise regime. That is not the problem. About 25% of the population has
insulin resistance and a genetic predisposition to Type II diabetes. They are born with too few insulin receptors in their
cells, which requires more insulin to be produced by the beta cells in the pancreas. Unfortunately their cells retain
the ability to reduce the number of receptors if the insulin levels are too high. This results in a spiral of death where
over decades the number of insulin receptors goes down at the same time as the insulin required to balance blood sugar levels
goes up. Eventually so much insulin is produce that the beta cells start to die off from toxic side effects. This gives
Type II diabetes.

Insulin also happens to be the fat conversion and storage hormone. Just by the virtue of having excessive insulin responses
to every meal, people with insulin resistance tend to be predisposed to obesity. This has nothing to do with over-eating and
calories. It is a pure bio-chemical pathway bifurcation where "normal" people generate heat from the excess calories and
insulin resistant people generate fat. But not all insulin resistant people get fat, some stay very thin since the fat storage
cells are suppressed by high insulin levels. This depends on their genetics.

For a substantial portion of the population the diet advice they are exposed to on TV and in print media is 100% detrimental
and not suited for their needs. Insulin resistant people need to control their carbohydrate intake since it directly affects
blood glucose levels. There is no easy fix since 60% of protein is converted into glucose as well. So high protein diets are
not a magic bullet. The last thing that insulin resistant people have to worry about is fat intake. Fat does not make you
fat. The satiation mechanism for fat is extremely strong. There is no satiation control on carbohydrates and sugars and people
can consume them until their stomachs have no spare capacity. So the often yapped about calorie difference between starch and
fat molecules is an utter irrelevance. Most calories by far come from carbohydrate consumption.

The parameter to be controlled by insulin resistant people is the insulin spike in the wake of a meal. That means eating smaller
meals more often (for a given daily calorie intake). No processed foods full of glucose-fructose filler should be eaten. Increasing
the fat intake can help reduce cravings and hunger but we are not talking about a high fat diet. Some fruits are better than others
which includes grapefruit being of lower glycemic index than apples. Of course, exercise and physical activity are very important
since muscles consume glucose and a nice 15 minute walk after a meal reduces the insulin spike.

It is moronic how doctors take blood sugar readings during health check-ups and do not measure the insulin. You will only have
blood sugar levels problems when you are hitting Type II diabetes onset. There are decades before that time which can be used to
completely avoid Type II diabetes. It is not a disease that is guaranteed to occur if action is taken in spite of the fact that it
is genetic.

What about type 1 diabetes, causes? People usually dont know its existence.

nomadski

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Post n°15

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

nomadski Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:12 pm

@ wolf

I am no expert , but type I produces no insulin . Type II produces insulin , but cells can not absorb it .

@ kvs

Thanks for info . So diabetes can be either inherited or induced or inherited and induced . I heard that every cell in human body , apart from brain cells , get renewed by the body , every seven years . So is this true ? In this case , any damaged organs can heal , regain function .

On these sanctions , any nation can turn this into opportunity to introduce a health diet for population . In UK in WW2 , food rationing , limited but more balanced intake , increased public health . Countries under sanctions can bring in new agricultural policy and foods to become food sovereign.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/9728.php

kvs

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Post n°16

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

kvs Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:53 pm

nomadski wrote:
@ wolf

I am no expert , but type I produces no insulin . Type II produces insulin , but cells can not absorb it .

@ kvs

Thanks for info . So diabetes can be either inherited or induced or inherited and induced . I heard that every cell in human body , apart from brain cells , get renewed by the body , every seven years . So is this true ? In this case , any damaged organs can heal , regain function .

On these sanctions , any nation can turn this into opportunity to introduce a health diet for population . In UK in WW2 , food rationing , limited but more balanced intake , increased public health . Countries under sanctions can bring in new agricultural policy and foods to become food sovereign.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/9728.php

Type I diabetes is the destruction of the beta cells through an auto-immune disorder. You have to inject insulin for life.

Type II diabetes is the destruction of the beta cells through toxic side effects of insulin over-production. You have to inject insulin for the rest
of your life when you reach it.

But unlike the catastrophic onset of Type I, with Type II the onset takes decades. There is no diet or lifestyle adjustment that can prevent Type I.
But with Type II, you have a lot of time to adjust your diet and life-style to prevent its onset.

Interestingly, Alzheimer's is being called Type III diabetes since it involves insulin disfunction in the brain.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769828/

nomadski

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Post n°17

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

nomadski Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:24 pm

Here another example of modern Agro - industry killing our planet and killing humans. Do we even have chance?

https://sputniknews.com/science/201907011076115268-insects-dying-off-europe-apocalyptic-omen/?utm_source=adfox_site_41917&utm_medium=adfox_banner_3075328&utm_campaign=adfox_campaign_626010&ues=1

GarryB

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Post n°18

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

GarryB Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:39 am

Calorie counting doesn't make sense...

nomadski

nomadski: Posts : 3072
Points : 3080
Join date : 2017-01-02

Post n°19

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

nomadski Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:41 pm

https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&ei=QBlPXZ70Gc6djLsPkvmziAE&q=recyclable+materials&oq=Recyclable+&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.1.1.0l8.24428.35548..68278...0.0..0.247.1443.1j10j1......0....1.......0..0i131j46i131j46.czPQSMRV0v0

I started to try and recycle my waste plastics. But soon found out that recycling plants, do not recycle mixed or different types of plastic. They only recycle soft plastic. Not hard plastics. Yet all plastic packaging is of mixed type plastics. So I thought that governments should make a law, to force ALL plastic packaging to be of the soft plastic type. Or only one type of plastic or one grade of plastic. The consumer then simply discards all plastics. And recycling plants do not have to separate different grades of plastic. Simple recycling.

Also any labels on plastic packaging must not be of paper or glue types. Simple printing must replace paper and glue labelling. This again makes it cost effective to recycle. I also thought that all new plastic packaging must be able to float above water. In cases where plastic sinks into sea bottom and pollutes environment. Floating plastics can at least be collected.

Glass containers are more fuel efficient to produce. Than plastics. They are also less damaging to environment. Where possible glass recyclable containers should replace plastics. Standardised glass containers for most goods can be collected together. Cleaned together, and used interchangeably. A container for milk can also be used to contain fruit juices. Same bottle, same size and colour. Again labels are not glue or paper. And can be cleaned or removed easily. What else can be done.?

kvs

kvs: Posts : 15861
Points : 15996
Join date : 2014-09-11
Location : Turdope's Kanada

Post n°20

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

kvs Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:12 am

nomadski wrote:https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&ei=QBlPXZ70Gc6djLsPkvmziAE&q=recyclable+materials&oq=Recyclable+&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.1.1.0l8.24428.35548..68278...0.0..0.247.1443.1j10j1......0....1.......0..0i131j46i131j46.czPQSMRV0v0

I started to try and recycle my waste plastics. But soon found out that recycling plants, do not recycle mixed or different types of plastic. They only recycle soft plastic. Not hard plastics. Yet all plastic packaging is of mixed type plastics. So I thought that governments should make a law, to force ALL plastic packaging to be of the soft plastic type. Or only one type of plastic or one grade of plastic. The consumer then simply discards all plastics. And recycling plants do not have to separate different grades of plastic. Simple recycling.

Also any labels on plastic packaging must not be of paper or glue types. Simple printing must replace paper and glue labelling. This again makes it cost effective to recycle. I also thought that all new plastic packaging must be able to float above water. In cases where plastic sinks into sea bottom and pollutes environment. Floating plastics can at least be collected.

Glass containers are more fuel efficient to produce. Than plastics. They are also less damaging to environment. Where possible glass recyclable containers should replace plastics. Standardised glass containers for most goods can be collected together. Cleaned together, and used interchangeably. A container for milk can also be used to contain fruit juices. Same bottle, same size and colour. Again labels are not glue or paper. And can be cleaned or removed easily. What else can be done.?

I have recently come to the realization that recycling is a scam. The waste I sort into the recycling bin is compacted and shipped off to
3rd world countries who have enough corruption to enable the self-anointed western do-gooder governments to pretend that this is not
garbage being dumped on foreign soil. Recently the Phillipines has started to clamp down on this abuse. I am also sure that western
garbage is dumped into the Pacific Ocean. This helps explain the vast amount of plastic accumulating in this Ocean.

Where's GreenPeace? Total frauds working to enable NATO's agenda.

GarryB

GarryB: Posts : 40553
Points : 41055
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand

Post n°21

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

GarryB Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:22 am

China used to buy plastic from the west, so recycling basically consisted of sending off waste from the west to China.

China doesn't want the wests rubbish any more and so all that carefully sorted and stacked plastic is building up in the west with no solution.

When I was young we had glass milk bottles and you certainly didn't buy water in a plastic bottle that is just the worst idea, but some people are making a lot of money on bottled water... foreign companies come to New Zealand and put tap water into bottles and then sell it around the world... they don't pay a cent for the tap water... they basically just produce plastic bottles and fill them up with our tap water and sell it... they are creating an enormous amount of plastic bottle waste.

They even have the balls to fund scientific studies that show that bottled water is perfectly safe to drink even after spending years in that bottle, but once you open that bottle you can't reuse it because chemicals in the plastic will leech into the water you put into it.

How convenient for them... their product is safe, but you can't just buy one bottle and use filtered water from the fountain at work, you have to keep buying their bottled water... greedy bastards.

Of course there are plant based plastics that can degrade into something that becomes compostable... but it will be a long climb yet before we solve the issue of Americas consumerism model of waste and pollution.

I believe coca cola did several scientific investigations regarding glass vs plastic and they sealed the results and never released them and went for plastic, so it is pretty clear that what we assumed all along was true... glass was better for the environment, but plastic was cheaper and put the responsibility for the rubbish on to the consumer and not the company that packaged its product in such an unsafe container... we are living with that decision now...

nomadski

nomadski: Posts : 3072
Points : 3080
Join date : 2017-01-02

Post n°22

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

nomadski Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:55 pm

@KVS

I think you know about physics. I agree with you about fake recycling and effect on poor country or environment. I was thinking that if waste could be analysed and efficiently separated on conveyor belt, then it can be recycled very easy. But how? For some time I was thinking of atomic separator. A device that can identify molecules. And separate them. But I don't know if this is practical. Then I thought that a system like barcode reader in supermarket can be used to sort rubbish on conveyor. In automatic way. So non magnetic metals and plastics and ceramic and wood can all be separated before recycling. Cost effective. Even barcode can be part of fabric of goods. Using modern nano tech. What do you think?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcode_reader

GarryB

GarryB: Posts : 40553
Points : 41055
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand

Post n°23

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

GarryB Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:30 am

The problem with the planet earth is that it has everything in abundance... air, water, sunlight, food, energy...

Travelling to Mars or even the Moon requires technologies to conserve and reuse water and air and food and find renewable energy... these technologies and indeed disciplines are necessary because pretty soon we will need to apply them to earth as well as living in space or on other bodies.

An oil monopoly made us lazy for energy so rather than develop alternatives that are renewable, we focused on oil and oil based products which we now depend on.

If we didn't have access to oil or the countries that had it wanted to charge a more realistic amount for it and reward their own citizens for the mineral wealth beneath their feet instead of making a few obscenely wealthy and the rest get a token prize every other year, then perhaps we could be working with much cleaner technologies... hydrogen powered gas turbines generating power to run electric vehicles for instance... solar and wind are getting money spent on them but they are not reliable 24/7 sources of energy... but you could use them in conjunction with other technologies to balance it all out... when the sun shines and the wind blows use the electricity generated to separate hydrogen from oxygen in water and store them both... when the sun is not shining then a hydrogen powered gas turbine or just a hydrogen fuel cell can generate electricity instead. Wind can occur day or night, but is unreliable in the sense that sometimes it is too strong to safely generate electricity, and other times there is not enough... but the tide comes in and goes out every day... tidal stations could generate electricity day and night and all year round yet are ignored by most greenies.

kvs

kvs: Posts : 15861
Points : 15996
Join date : 2014-09-11
Location : Turdope's Kanada

Post n°24

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

kvs Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:11 am

The existing recycling industry is some sort of scam. For example, it is supposedly not possible to recycle paper that has been
exposed to food (e.g. pizza boxes, disposable plates, etc.). I simply do not believe this claim. Cellulose is not decomposed by
fats and proteins found in foods. This tells me that some crappy recycling process is used where they do not bother to separate
out the cellulose from fats and proteins. Detergents should be very efficient are separating out food fatty acids. Proteins are
more of a challenge, but they can be exposed to catalysts that break them down without affecting cellulose.

Even though the industrial processing takes into account atomic scale processes (chemistry and physical properties) there is
no need for atomic level separation. This is way too complex and expensive. Knowledge of physicochemical processes enables
bulk industrial separation and aggregation.

There was some talk years ago of setting up plants to convert food waste directly into fuel. Likely due to the cheaper natural
sources of oil this has gone nowhere. Paper and plastic can be converted into fuel as well and the CO2 emitted from this energy source
is not a net gain for the planet since the paper comes from plants that sequestered atmospheric CO2 to begin with. The same
CO2 closed cycle is true for the food waste to fuel conversion. There are good ideas and solutions out there but they can't
compete with the underpriced fossil fuel sources.

One would expect that as the cheap oil becomes scarce, that the alternatives would become competitive. But the problem is that
our economy is addicted to the cheap oil crack and when it becomes too costly, the whole economic will start to implode. There
simply is not enough planning for the future and associated investment in transition to new technology and new ways of doing things.
Instead with have business as usual until the moment it can't be sustained and somehow the invisible hand is supposed to convert
everything into a new optimal regime overnight. This economics voodoo is what was driving the Harvard Boys and their shock
therapy theories back in the early 1990s in Russia. They actually were peddling the notion that the economy and prices would
transition in a few months. Well, it's been almost 30 years and the economy is still showing adjustment transients. Such lunatic
theorizing is paralyzing decision making today and will continue to do so until it is too late.

nomadski

nomadski: Posts : 3072
Points : 3080
Join date : 2017-01-02

Post n°25

Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

nomadski Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:55 am

https://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13980822000436

Iranians recently discovered new oilfield. But seeing the shutdown of schools in Tehran recently, it is clear that fossil fuel burning has no future. Like other major city, life there no longer possible. So Iranians together with other countries can develop other resources. They have sunshine. So use that. Some can use wind or tidal. Keep the oil under the ground.

@ KVS

Agree that molecular or atomic separation may be too difficult. And as I said, physical separation can be done for most items, if they are marked electronically. Such as existing barcode being more effective in disposal as well. Some items like electronics have multiple fused components of different material, so they may have to be crushed into fine particles before separation or as you said chemical process used that acts as separation as well as processing. Physical separation is needed in most cases before processing. Regards biological contamination. Then this can be addressed at source. By facilitating biological waste disposal at home. Or on conveyor the food waste carries no barcode and remains unidentified and can be tracked differently and disposed of. Regarding costs then taxes are raised to protect environment. For planting trees. And renewable energy. Nuclear reactors. Electrified transport systems. It can all be done.

https://youtu.be/MTgentcfzgg

Russia Defence Forum

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