NationalRus wrote:first i tought they deployed the mi-24p only to gourd the air base and that was ok but they use them for CAS... even the fucking gun is static... i have no idea why they dont use actaully modern flexible combat helicopters for gods sake get 4 mi-24 to gourd the air base and deploy 4 mi-28n's for CAS or at least the mi-24VM's only a mather of time befor we lose one if they get deployed like that 5m of the ground with all the heavy 14mm and bigger MG's the terrorists have on the ground
Mi24Ps are nearing end of their service life, which means using them reduces cost alot, since they will be discarted in next year, two or three anyways to rot on some field. And they are good enough for what they are doing in Syria at least at this point perimeter patrolling and CAS with unguided rockets. Also Mi28N would also use S5-S8 rocket pods for CAS and what... it would be in same situation as Mi24Ps are, they do not have armor heavy enemy, no need for use of Atakas so most of the systems available on Mi28s would be quite useless. they would just risk losing expencive new machine plus it could affect future exports.
NationalRus wrote:first i tought they deployed the mi-24p only to gourd the air base and that was ok but they use them for CAS... even the fucking gun is static... i have no idea why they dont use actaully modern flexible combat helicopters for gods sake get 4 mi-24 to gourd the air base and deploy 4 mi-28n's for CAS or at least the mi-24VM's only a mather of time befor we lose one if they get deployed like that 5m of the ground with all the heavy 14mm and bigger MG's the terrorists have on the ground
Mi24Ps are nearing end of their service life, which means using them reduces cost alot, since they will be discarted in next year, two or three anyways to rot on some field. And they are good enough for what they are doing in Syria at least at this point perimeter patrolling and CAS with unguided rockets. Also Mi28N would also use S5-S8 rocket pods for CAS and what... it would be in same situation as Mi24Ps are, they do not have armor heavy enemy, no need for use of Atakas so most of the systems available on Mi28s would be quite useless. they would just risk losing expencive new machine plus it could affect future exports.
see how the cost will go up if 1 or 2 gets shot down with russia pilots in them in this OLD garbage, then suddenly everybody would only wish they HAD deployed something better like a VM model, and modern helicopter CAS is done by the 30mm gun and guided rockets against stong points and armour and not flying 5m above ground shooting S8's against an enemy who has hundreds of heavy MG's with calibers of 14mm and above on the ground, we have over 70 Mi-28N delivered in service use are this Mi-24P even suited for night operations? fuck off!
if we are doing it then we should do it right, what a fucking excuse lets save 4-5m here by deploying second hand stuff from the 80's and hope its keep afloat then sending 3-4 pieces of game changing equipment, by god if some of them get shot down i want to see the excuses you will all make and how much you apprieciete the couple off millions we probably saved when now dead russia pilots and crashed helicopters will be all over the media
Proof please? CNN claims Russian missiles crashed in Iran, Moscow refutes, US can’t confirm
RT nailed it.
The American broadcaster CNN cited two unnamed US officials, who said that four Russian missiles had crashed somewhere in Iran after being launched from vessels in the Caspian Sea. The report suggested that “some buildings were damaged and civilians may have been hurt.”
This triggered a quick reaction from the Russian Defense Ministry, with spokesman Igor Konashenkov saying that all the missiles had hit their targets on Wednesday. “Unlike CNN, we don’t distribute information citing anonymous sources, but show the very missile launches and the way they hit their targets almost in real time,” Konashenkov said. The spokesman pointed out that the strike targets are being photographed before and after being hit, while Russian drones are monitoring the situation from Syrian skies 24/7.
It's all psyops nothing else after seeing their assets worth millions and regime change plans going down the gutter in Syria after Russia's bold and necessary move ( Bear woke up!) they are all frustrated and pissed so resorting to such lowlife tactics is the only remaining task they have at-least to delude dumbed down sheeple all over earth .
Siempre_Leal wrote:What type of ordanance(sp) does this?
Alot of it, various types of anti-personel cluster ammunition. If i had to guess then Smerch 9M55K - http://splav.org/en/arms/smerch/m55k.asp with 96 pieces of 9N235 submunition, probably multiple launched tho.
Thanks again Militarov, Here's a vehicle with white mark, can you name the type of truck?
NationalRus wrote:first i tought they deployed the mi-24p only to gourd the air base and that was ok but they use them for CAS... even the fucking gun is static... i have no idea why they dont use actaully modern flexible combat helicopters for gods sake get 4 mi-24 to gourd the air base and deploy 4 mi-28n's for CAS or at least the mi-24VM's only a mather of time befor we lose one if they get deployed like that 5m of the ground with all the heavy 14mm and bigger MG's the terrorists have on the ground
Mi24Ps are nearing end of their service life, which means using them reduces cost alot, since they will be discarted in next year, two or three anyways to rot on some field. And they are good enough for what they are doing in Syria at least at this point perimeter patrolling and CAS with unguided rockets. Also Mi28N would also use S5-S8 rocket pods for CAS and what... it would be in same situation as Mi24Ps are, they do not have armor heavy enemy, no need for use of Atakas so most of the systems available on Mi28s would be quite useless. they would just risk losing expencive new machine plus it could affect future exports.
see how the cost will go up if 1 or 2 gets shot down with russia pilots in them in this OLD garbage, then suddenly everybody would only wish they HAD deployed something better like a VM model, and modern helicopter CAS is done by the 30mm gun and guided rockets against stong points and armour and not flying 5m above ground shooting S8's against an enemy who has hundreds of heavy MG's with calibers of 14mm and above on the ground, we have over 70 Mi-28N delivered in service use are this Mi-24P even suited for night operations? fuck off!
if we are doing it then we should do it right, what a fucking excuse lets save 4-5m here by deploying second hand stuff from the 80's and hope its keep afloat then sending 3-4 pieces of game changing equipment, by god if some of them get shot down i want to see the excuses you will all make and how much you apprieciete the couple off millions we probably saved when now dead russia pilots and crashed helicopters will be all over the media
AH64D loads:
16 AGM-114A/L/M/K Hellfires used aganist armor heavy enemy, never used with 16 AGM114N since they carry thermobaric warhead and are used in different load mix.
8 Hellfires of any type and 38 rockets used for variety of targets, with anti-armor emphasis.
76 HE rockets. This load is ideal for suppressing enemy ground forces or anti-infantry duty and providing Close Air Support to infantry.
38 HE Hydra rockets, 4 Hellfires and external fuel tank, most common actual combat load for Apache.
Naturally any mix of these is possible, even 4 external fuel tanks (as demonstrated by Israelis few times during rapid deployment), however you will never see Apache flying CAS carrying only Hellfires, that never happened nor it ever will. In each load it carries full load for its gun naturally 1200 rounds. So, that your idea of CAS is quite far from reality, noone spends ATGMs on CAS unless target is armor, high value target or is endangering your troops in some unusual way which can be dealt only with ATGM.
Photos of some modern and highly capable attack helicopters carrying "useless" unguided rockets:
And this is just to show you what Mi28N would carry in Syria too:
Its simply not realistic expecting them to use wast amounts of Shturms/Atakas or whatever aganist targets they are facing atm in Syria. Not even US would do such thing.
NationalRus wrote:first i tought they deployed the mi-24p only to gourd the air base and that was ok but they use them for CAS... even the fucking gun is static... i have no idea why they dont use actaully modern flexible combat helicopters for gods sake get 4 mi-24 to gourd the air base and deploy 4 mi-28n's for CAS or at least the mi-24VM's only a mather of time befor we lose one if they get deployed like that 5m of the ground with all the heavy 14mm and bigger MG's the terrorists have on the ground
Siempre_Leal wrote:What type of ordanance(sp) does this?
Alot of it, various types of anti-personel cluster ammunition. If i had to guess then Smerch 9M55K - http://splav.org/en/arms/smerch/m55k.asp with 96 pieces of 9N235 submunition, probably multiple launched tho.
Thanks again Militarov, Here's a vehicle with white mark, can you name the type of truck?
Emm, idk i suppose GAZ Sadko, at least looks like it to me.
More info on it: http://www.military-today.com/trucks/gaz_3308_sadko.htm
ShahryarHedayatiSHBA wrote:A missile seems to have failed and hit the ground near a village in takab .
Unless that is very hard soil that is not impact that Kalibr would leave, i have seen myself place where shot down Tomahawk fell and it was bigger crater just from pure kinetic impact.
Agreed, let's compare photos of impacts of the FAB-500-M54 that failed to explode and the alleged 3M-14 crater:
FAB-500-M54 that failed to explode, and it's crater.
Compared to the alleged ground impact of the Kalibr 3M-14 cruise missile and it's crater.
And we have a problem here. The 3M-14 is much heavier munition at 1,400 kg, compared to FAB-500-M54's total weight of 500 kg, and 3M-14 is also powered with it's own engine allowing it to fly at transonic speed. We have to also look at the soil and how it would affect a munition (that failed to explode) impact crater. With this global map of soil profiles, you'll find that Syria, and Iran have similar soil profiles: an Aridisol/Entisol mix:
1.) So with those facts presented (assuming both failed to explode), why would a munition (FAB-500-M54 at 500 kg) that's virtually 1/3rd of the weight of another munition (3M-14 at 1,400 kg), that's happens to be free-fall bomb (compared to the transonic speed of of 3M-14), make a deeper and larger impact crater when the soil profiles of both Syria and Iran are very similar (Aridisol/Entisol mix)?
NationalRus wrote:first i tought they deployed the mi-24p only to gourd the air base and that was ok but they use them for CAS... even the fucking gun is static... i have no idea why they dont use actaully modern flexible combat helicopters for gods sake get 4 mi-24 to gourd the air base and deploy 4 mi-28n's for CAS or at least the mi-24VM's only a mather of time befor we lose one if they get deployed like that 5m of the ground with all the heavy 14mm and bigger MG's the terrorists have on the ground
Not. Russian. Helicopter. Or. Crew. Doing. CAS.
Jesus...
give me a qoute from MOD confirming that or fuck off
AH64D loads:
16 AGM-114A/L/M/K Hellfires used aganist armor heavy enemy, never used with 16 AGM114N since they carry thermobaric warhead and are used in different load mix.
8 Hellfires of any type and 38 rockets used for variety of targets, with anti-armor emphasis.
76 HE rockets. This load is ideal for suppressing enemy ground forces or anti-infantry duty and providing Close Air Support to infantry.
38 HE Hydra rockets, 4 Hellfires and external fuel tank, most common actual combat load for Apache.
Naturally any mix of these is possible, even 4 external fuel tanks (as demonstrated by Israelis few times during rapid deployment), however you will never see Apache flying CAS carrying only Hellfires, that never happened nor it ever will. In each load it carries full load for its gun naturally 1200 rounds. So, that your idea of CAS is quite far from reality, noone spends ATGMs on CAS unless target is armor, high value target or is endangering your troops in some unusual way which can be dealt only with ATGM.
Photos of some modern and highly capable attack helicopters carrying "useless" unguided rockets:
are you stupid didnt you got what i said? show me Hydra attacks over enemy territory FULL of hundreds maybe thausends of troops in a small area who have also hundreds of heavy MG's at ther disposal???? i think Saudis this that a couple of times and lost at least 1 AH-64 as i remeber quite fast.
the strategic situation on the ground is not like afghanistan were the AH-64 at best hunt 2 dozen taliban with maybe one DSHK at the best, with modern electronic HUD sights for the rocket flyight path of the hydras, does the mi-24p's have them to??
and i NEVER claimed the cary only hellfires! qoute me saying that or fuck off stop putting words in my mouth that i didnt use! and they use hellfires to even pick out single trucks or small groups hell they use GBU-12 on littel units in afghanistan if needed as CAS if they pin down a american force.
we got OLD helicopters from the late 80's flying near suicidal missions on extrem low levels above hundreds of enemy terrorists with A LOT of heavy weaponary in small operational zones = FACT already on the videos posted several of the hinds got hit by small arms fire already its pure LUCK that at no of this positions ther were flying over ther were a ZPU, Zu-23 or KPV ther
NationalRus wrote:first i tought they deployed the mi-24p only to gourd the air base and that was ok but they use them for CAS... even the fucking gun is static... i have no idea why they dont use actaully modern flexible combat helicopters for gods sake get 4 mi-24 to gourd the air base and deploy 4 mi-28n's for CAS or at least the mi-24VM's only a mather of time befor we lose one if they get deployed like that 5m of the ground with all the heavy 14mm and bigger MG's the terrorists have on the ground
Not. Russian. Helicopter. Or. Crew. Doing. CAS.
Jesus...
give me a qoute from MOD confirming that or fuck off
AH64D loads:
16 AGM-114A/L/M/K Hellfires used aganist armor heavy enemy, never used with 16 AGM114N since they carry thermobaric warhead and are used in different load mix.
8 Hellfires of any type and 38 rockets used for variety of targets, with anti-armor emphasis.
76 HE rockets. This load is ideal for suppressing enemy ground forces or anti-infantry duty and providing Close Air Support to infantry.
38 HE Hydra rockets, 4 Hellfires and external fuel tank, most common actual combat load for Apache.
Naturally any mix of these is possible, even 4 external fuel tanks (as demonstrated by Israelis few times during rapid deployment), however you will never see Apache flying CAS carrying only Hellfires, that never happened nor it ever will. In each load it carries full load for its gun naturally 1200 rounds. So, that your idea of CAS is quite far from reality, noone spends ATGMs on CAS unless target is armor, high value target or is endangering your troops in some unusual way which can be dealt only with ATGM.
Photos of some modern and highly capable attack helicopters carrying "useless" unguided rockets:
are you stupid didnt you got what i said? show me Hydra attacks over enemy territory FULL of hundreds maybe thausends of troops in a small area who have also hundreds of heavy MG's at ther disposal???? i think Saudis this that a couple of times and lost at least 1 AH-64 as i remeber quite fast.
the strategic situation on the ground is not like afghanistan were the AH-64 at best hunt 2 dozen taliban with maybe one DSHK at the best, with modern electronic HUD sights for the rocket flyight path of the hydras, does the mi-24p's have them to??
and i NEVER claimed the cary only hellfires! qoute me saying that or fuck off stop putting words in my mouth that i didnt use! and they use hellfires to even pick out single trucks or small groups hell they use GBU-12 on littel units in afghanistan if needed as CAS if they pin down a american force.
we got OLD helicopters from the late 80's flying near suicidal missions on extrem low levels above hundreds of enemy terrorists with A LOT of heavy weaponary in small operational zones = FACT already on the videos posted several of the hinds got hit by small arms fire already its pure LUCK that at no of this positions ther were flying over ther were a ZPU, Zu-23 or KPV ther
I would not get Master degree in IT field if i was stupid, so no, i am not stupid, and yes i did get what you said, however its complete...BS. I am sorry to tell you this but you are so far from reality when its about actual combat that i am 100% sure you gather your ideas from Battlefield 4, no offense. If you think someone is flying around firing 140.000USD AGM 114s all day long you are badly mislead (latest order by Lebanon and Iraq).
MH60L DAP - fully capable gunship version of what people like you call "Black Hawk"
Gulf war image 1991. Each helicopter is armed with a pair of 19-round launchers for 2.75-inch folding-fin aerial rockets; the helicopter at right is also carrying eight AGM-114 Hellfire missiles. U.S. Department of Defense photo
"On January 14, Gen. Cody’s unit was ordered to deploy with nine Apaches and a Blackhawk support helicopter. The attacking unit flew from King Fahd Airbase to King Khalid Military City. After refueling, the raiders resumed their flight northwest at low altitude to a town called Al-Jawf, Arabic for “starting point.” This small airfield was approximately an hour’s flying time south of Arar. Each Apache was armed with eight Hellfire missiles, 19 Hydra 2.75-inch rockets and 800 to 1,000 rounds of 30-millimeter ammunition. Hydra 70 flechette rockets and the 30-millimeter chain guns were used against anti-aircraft gun positions guarding the radar sites, as the Apaches moved to within 4,000 meters of the positions. The Apaches destroyed every piece of radar equipment at each site, shattering buildings and vans. Gen. Cody’s wingman took enemy fire, and with three bullet holes through the rotor blades continued to fly the aircraft." - http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/gulf-war-20th-apache-raid/
Amonts of Hydra 70s being ordered is immense, huge, mind blowing i wonder why, i guess thats coz they are not being used right? - http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/hydra70-rockets-from-cutbacks-to-the-future-of-warfare-02120/
"Sept 15/14: Multi-year buy. General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems (GD-OTS) in Williston, VT wins a $58 million firm-fixed-price contract, with options, for Hydra-70 rocket buys from FY 2014 through FY 2018. It includes rockets, warheads, motors and containers, and all funds are committed immediately. Work will be performed in Williston, VT (71%), and Camden, AR (29%), with an estimated completion date of Sept 30/20. Bids were solicited via the Internet, with 2 received (W31P4Q-14-C-0154)."
"June 15/11: FY 2011. A $286 million cost-plus contract, as the FY 2011 option exercise for Hydra-70 production. Work will be performed in Burlington, VT, and Camden, AZ, with an estimated completion date of Sept 30/15. One bid was solicited with one bid received (W31P4Q-11-C-0190… we think they meant W31P4Q-10-C-0190)."
Now lets see how Apache for an example flies during CAS:
Pilot describing FIRST AH64 strike in Desert Storm, mix of Hydras and Hellfires used.
"HUD sights for the rocket flyight path of the hydras" - like in Battlefield? Nope, but lets see...
AH64A flew thousands of missions in Iraq, in both wars in Iraq actually, and it faced far greater threats than Mi25P is atm in Syria and guess what they did fine. Also AH64A is not some kind of mythical spaceship, its marginally better equiped than Mi24P, they were produced between 1981. till 1989. around 700 of them, same era as those AH64As are.
Siempre_Leal wrote:What type of ordanance(sp) does this?
Apparently there is confirmation from the field that in this video instead of Smerch based clusters its actually was 9M218 122mm Unguided Rocket Projectile with Shaped-Charge Fragmentation Submunition Scattering Warhead.
More about it: http://www.splav.org/en/arms/grad/m218.asp
"The 9M218 is a state-of-the-art 122mm unguided rocket projectile fitted with 45 shaped charge fragmentation submunitions scattering warhead. The 25 kg warhead features 45 submunitons that can pierce 100-to-120mm of homogenous armor. It has been designed to engage soft-skinned armored targets such as infantry combat vehicles (ICVs), armored troops carrier (ATCs) and/or self-propelled howitzers (SPHs) as well as manpower, helicopters and aircraft on landing runways. The rocket projectile can engage targets at ranges of up to 30,000 meters operating at temperatures between -50-degree to +50-degree Celsius. The new rocket motor provides 50 percent more range compared with legacy Grad projectiles. The 9M218 rocket projectile was developed and produced by Splav for the upgraded Grad-1, now Tornado-G, multiple launch rocket system."
Agreed, let's compare photos of impacts of the FAB-500-M54 that failed to explode and the alleged 3M-14 crater:
FAB-500-M54 that failed to explode, and it's crater.
Compared to the alleged ground impact of the Kalibr 3M-14 cruise missile and it's crater.
And we have a problem here. The 3M-14 is much heavier munition at 1,400 kg, compared to FAB-500-M54's total weight of 500 kg, and 3M-14 is also powered with it's own engine allowing it to fly at transonic speed. We have to also look at the soil and how it would affect a munition (that failed to explode) impact crater. With this global map of soil profiles, you'll find that Syria, and Iran have similar soil profiles: an Aridisol/Entisol mix:
1.) So with those facts presented (assuming both failed to explode), why would a munition (FAB-500-M54 at 500 kg) that's virtually 1/3rd of the weight of another munition (3M-14 at 1,400 kg), that's happens to be free-fall bomb (compared to the transonic speed of of 3M-14), make a deeper and larger impact crater when the soil profiles of both Syria and Iran are very similar (Aridisol/Entisol mix)?
2.) What happened to the other 3 craters?
All the claims and "evidence" supplied so far are a joke and your analysis is right on target. I think the lost missiles number is pulled straight from the Pentagon's collective ass:
One thing I would agree with NationalRus regarding all of this is that the Mi-24 varient should have been different variant. One with a rotating turret as it would pose far better against running soft targets than the fixed gun. Something like Mi-24VM or just Mi-24V would suffice.
I imagine they wont even bother bringing these back to Russia afterwards and just hand them to Syria.
A couple of snapshots from one of the videos of the Mi-24's in the latest fighting....can't say for sure but it looks like they have a gatling gun instead of the side mounted twin 30mm cannon of the Mi-24P....so chances are they're Sy-AF Mi-25's
sepheronx wrote:One thing I would agree with NationalRus regarding all of this is that the Mi-24 varient should have been different variant. One with a rotating turret as it would pose far better against running soft targets than the fixed gun. Something like Mi-24VM or just Mi-24V would suffice.
I imagine they wont even bother bringing these back to Russia afterwards and just hand them to Syria.
I dont think many, if any Mi24V remain to this day in service, at least not in their initial variant. Mi24P was chosen coz of powerful gun most likely and fact they are older part of the fleet but still young enough to be operated without having to perfom major repairs every 10h of flight.
I dont think they will be hauled back to Russia either, but you never know.
As members of the global reality-based community, we’d like to extend our appreciation and support for the Russian Federation’s decision to provide humanitarian and military assistance to Syria, its armed forces and its democratically elected leader, President Bashar al-Assad, in their fight against international US-backed terrorists. (.........)
ShahryarHedayatiSHBA wrote: The news about crashed object has been confirmed by Islamic republic news agency... http://www.irna.ir/fa/News/81789206/
we need the debris's photo.
and is there any more info on how many craters or mysterious explosions ?
No more info available yet.
ShahryarHedayatiSHBA,
Since you are from Iran, can you please dig out and post (a translation please) the news story about the time that at least an Iranian school kid got killed while playing with a "US" cruise missile that had crashed in southwest Iran.
While you are at it, I'll try to write a post on the topic of munition failures (e.g., of Tomakawks and Mark 82).
It is amusing to see how persistent the Iranian tool's scam has been. A quick look at the website he originally linked to mentions the impact was caused by a drone, and it has nothing to do with cruise missiles.
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