Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #13

Isos wrote:They don't. Military IFF code are not shared. Civilian planes have not encrypted codes. Those are two different things

When the mig-25 flew to Japan, soviet airforce spend huge money on rectifying IFF codes because US analyzed them.

https://sputniknews.com/amp/world/201809201068188741-russia-syria-il-20/

If russia gives its IFF code of its su-35 to syria to let them know that it is a su-35 and USA buy those codes to a syrian radar operator because he needs money to have a better life then they can use those codes for their f-15 to bomb the russian and make them think it is just a su-35.

Civillian IFF are not working on the same mode as military.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_friend_or_foe

Isos wrote:Israel has not been forced to leave syrian air space by modernized syrian AD. It's the presence of russians that complicate their work first because they can't attack russian AD and second because russian radars are connected to syrian AD and they are far better than syrian's.
Syrian suck for air defence. They proved it with the pantsir. And israel could easily destroy syrian AD if russians are not there. They are for the most static and well known by israeli. Buk and pantsir were there before russian came and they achieved 0 israeli jet down

Seig Soloyvov wrote:Well Russia tried to say that the S-200 battery wasn't equipped or link with IFF systems which is a rather huge BS lie on their part.

UPDATED 3:55 PM EDT (SEE BOTTOM) -- Russian jets reportedly intercept Israeli planes over Lebanon.  Two Russian SU-34 planes challenged Two Israeli Air Force (IAF) F-16s in Tripoli, Lebanon’s skies AND FORCED THEM TO RETURN TO ISRAEL despite mechanism to avoid conflicts between Moscow and Jerusalem

There has been no official confirmation from Russia or Israel.

It was the first time in months that Russian planes had entered Lebanese airspace from Syria.

Israeli jets reportedly often fly over Lebanese airspace conducting reconnaissance missions. Reports have also said that many of Israel’s attacks on targets in Syria have been launched from Lebanese airspace.

Earlier this month Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he had no reason to believe the Kremlin would try to limit Israel’s freedom of operation in the region.  It now appears Netanyahu was wrong.
In light of the heavy Russian presence in Syria, Israel in September 2015 set up a mechanism with Moscow — involving work groups led by the deputy chiefs of both militaries — to avoid conflicts and potentially fatal misunderstandings.

However, senior air force official stressed that this system was limited: Israel does not inform the Russians before conducting airstrikes in Syria, nor does Russia let the Israelis in on its plans.

On Monday, Israel launched a missile attack upon Syria using F-16's over the Mediterranean Sea.  Those F-16's intentionally operating very close to a much larger Russian IL-20 Electronic Intelligence aircraft, using that aircraft as a sort of radar cover.

When Syrian defenses opened fire to stop the inbound missile attack, they locked-onto the RUSSIAN plane and shot it down.

Russia blames Israel for using a Russian plane to launch a sneak attack, causing the deaths of 14 or 15 Russian airmen.

After this incident, Russia basically imposed a NO-FLY zone upon Israel by announcing sea and air live-fire exercises in the eastern Mediterranean off the coasts of Syria and Israel.  No Israeli war planes are permitted to fly outside the territory of Israel unless they do so at an altitude above 19,000 feet.  At such altitude, they would be easy targets for Syrian air defenses.

Below that altitude, Israeli planes would be "in the way" of an announced Russian military exercise where they could "accidentally" be hit by missiles from Russian naval vessels.

Israel apparently decided to TEST whether Russia meant what it said, and the Israelis sent up two F-16's to fly into Lebanon at an altitude BELOW 19,000 feet.  Those planes were intercepted by Russian SU-34's and forced to turn back to Israel.

Su-34 is not just a bomber, it is very capable fighter too.

UPDATE 3:55 PM EDT --
Russia has just announced that when they complete their "military live-fire exercises" in the waters off the Syria Coast, they are CLOSING THE AIRSPACE Over Syrian Territorial waters along the entire coastline.  NO UNAUTHORIZED AIRCRAFT will be permitted to enter air space over Syrian Territorial Waters.  Violators risk being shot down without warning.

This now means the only area Israel can use to attack Syria is Lebanese airspace but . . . .

**** The Syrian army now has permission from Lebanon to fire at Israeli planes that are in Lebanese airspace. ****

Vann7 wrote:some reports.. claim..

ISRAELI F-16's **INTERCEPTED** BY RUSSIAN WAR PLANES OVER LEBANON; Forced back to Israel

UPDATED 3:55 PM EDT (SEE BOTTOM) -- Russian jets reportedly intercept Israeli planes over Lebanon.  Two Russian SU-34 planes challenged Two Israeli Air Force (IAF) F-16s in Tripoli, Lebanon’s skies AND FORCED THEM TO RETURN TO ISRAEL despite mechanism to avoid conflicts between Moscow and Jerusalem

There has been no official confirmation from Russia or Israel.

It was the first time in months that Russian planes had entered Lebanese airspace from Syria.

Israeli jets reportedly often fly over Lebanese airspace conducting reconnaissance missions. Reports have also said that many of Israel’s attacks on targets in Syria have been launched from Lebanese airspace.

Earlier this month Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he had no reason to believe the Kremlin would try to limit Israel’s freedom of operation in the region.  It now appears Netanyahu was wrong.
In light of the heavy Russian presence in Syria, Israel in September 2015 set up a mechanism with Moscow — involving work groups led by the deputy chiefs of both militaries — to avoid conflicts and potentially fatal misunderstandings.

However, senior air force official stressed that this system was limited: Israel does not inform the Russians before conducting airstrikes in Syria, nor does Russia let the Israelis in on its plans.

On Monday, Israel launched a missile attack upon Syria using F-16's over the Mediterranean Sea.  Those F-16's intentionally operating very close to a much larger Russian IL-20 Electronic Intelligence aircraft, using that aircraft as a sort of radar cover.

When Syrian defenses opened fire to stop the inbound missile attack, they locked-onto the RUSSIAN plane and shot it down.

Russia blames Israel for using a Russian plane to launch a sneak attack, causing the deaths of 14 or 15 Russian airmen.

After this incident, Russia basically imposed a NO-FLY zone upon Israel by announcing sea and air live-fire exercises in the eastern Mediterranean off the coasts of Syria and Israel.  No Israeli war planes are permitted to fly outside the territory of Israel unless they do so at an altitude above 19,000 feet.  At such altitude, they would be easy targets for Syrian air defenses.

Below that altitude, Israeli planes would be "in the way" of an announced Russian military exercise where they could "accidentally" be hit by missiles from Russian naval vessels.

Israel apparently decided to TEST whether Russia meant what it said, and the Israelis sent up two F-16's to fly into Lebanon at an altitude BELOW 19,000 feet.  Those planes were intercepted by Russian SU-34's and forced to turn back to Israel.

Su-34 is not just a bomber, it is very capable fighter too.

UPDATE 3:55 PM EDT --
Russia has just announced that when they complete their "military live-fire exercises" in the waters off the Syria Coast, they are CLOSING THE AIRSPACE Over Syrian Territorial waters along the entire coastline.  NO UNAUTHORIZED AIRCRAFT will be permitted to enter air space over Syrian Territorial Waters.  Violators risk being shot down without warning.

This now means the only area Israel can use to attack Syria is Lebanese airspace but . . . .

**** The Syrian army now has permission from Lebanon to fire at Israeli planes that are in Lebanese airspace. ****

Their reports are usually confirmed half of the time but sometimes is just rumors.. so if confirmed,,will be the first
time Russia showing confronting Israel..as i imagined and predicted , there will be NEW RULES of Engagement.. and the Lebanese Airspace and Syrian waters are closed for Israel.. or any other nation..

So this is how i think Russian new rules will be..  Russian planes will lock on Israel planes getting close to Syria, that will activate a warning in their radars. of missile lock. and push Israel planes away from Russia military bases and if they fire a missile close to Russian military bases will be shotdown.. If Israel fire missiles from long distances ,towards Latakia or tartus ,RUssia will intercept their missiles and take down Israel planes even if they at far distances.. To really enforce a small no fly zone ,Russia will need 20-30 combat planes at least.. and fly 4 to 6 at the same time..

Basically what Israelies are doing is testing Russia to see what are really their new Rules of Engagement..
To pass that information to Israel military and they will likely continue bombing Syria.. but this time they will
use either Kurds zones in the north.. or from the east of Syrian airspace.. they will continue testing Russia.. harrassing their air defenses.. But im sure Russians will remain calm.. and will prepare an ambush at an Israeli plane... So is a matter of time the arrogant Israelis will get their asses kicked and planes shot down.. Russia can upgrade S-200s with S-300s electronics and guidance.. so a major pressure on Israel airforce will be noticed..


False flags however are possible ,will not be surprised if US,Israel shot down a civilian airliner and later blame Syria or Russia for it..

Tsavo Lion wrote:Pl. post a link of source u used. It's worth recalling that earlier Syrians also shot down a Turkish F-4 which was upgraded by Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-4_Phantom_II_non-U.S._operators#Upgrades_4

They r using longer range SU-34s for CAPs. Makes sense!
IMO, Israel could launch CMs from its subs or territory but they probably don't have that many of them &/ r not sure of their accuracy, or they wouldn't be using any F-16s.

Via Covert Intelligence --
Things are taking place inside Syria as you read this, which the entire rest of the world is not going to like.

Russian Air Force cargo planes are arriving almost non-stop into Latakia air base and covert Intelligence reports what they are delivering.

The information below comes from people who are actually physically on the ground inside Syria.  This is first-hand information from  sources in the actual Intelligence field from a particular country which will not be named.

Due to the extremely sensitive nature of this information, and the unique position of the source providing it, distribution of this info is restricted so as not to compromise the source.

The Russian Defence Ministry held a special briefing to provide detailed information on the crash of the Russian Il-20 off the Syrian coast on September 17.

The Spokeperson Major General Igor Konashenkov presented a minute-by-minute chronology of the tragedy based on objective data provided by radars including that of the Plotto air information display system.

“On September 17, the Russian Il-20 survey aircraft at 20:31 started special survey mission in the Idlib de-escalation zone. It had 15 Russian servicemen on board.

At the same time, four Israeli F-16 jets scrambled from Israel to carry out a sudden attack against industrial facilities in the Syrian Arab Republic. You can see the flight route of the Israeli jets on the screen. The F-16 jets flew over the Mediterranean Sea to take patrolling area 90 km west of Latakia.

At 21:39 a colonel of the Israeli Air Force Command informed the Russian Command in Syria through the deconfliction channel on the upcoming missile strike. She said that in the next minutes Israel would attack facilities in north Syria.

In a minute, at 21:40, four Israeli F-16 jets dropped GBU-39 air bombs targeting the industrial facilities in Latakia province.

Thus, the Israeli side informed the Russian group about its operation, breaching the existing agreements, not in advance, but simultaneously with the beginning of the strikes.

These actions constitute a clear violation of the 2015 Russian-Israeli agreements to prevent clashes between our armed forces in Syria reached by the joint working group.

You can see positions of the airplanes at the moment of the strike in the Plotto air information display system. The Russian Il-20 is designated in red and four Israeli jets – in yellow.

I would like to stress that during negotiations via the deconfliction channel, the representative of the Israeli Air Force Headquarters reported on the targets assigned to the Israeli aircraft in north Syria. The dialogue was held in Russian. The Russian Defence Ministry has a record of the talk.

The Il-20 commander being in the north of Syria received a task to leave the mission area to the south and return back to the military base.

As you can see on the map, the Israeli jets delivered strikes not in the north of the Syrian Arab Republic but in Latakia region which is the western province of the country. Besides, the city of Latakia is located on the western coast.

The misleading information provided by the Israeli officer about the area of strikes did not allow the Russian Il-20 to be taken to a safe area. Besides, they did not provide location of the Israeli F-16 jets.

At 21:51 the Syrian air defence forces started to repel the Israeli attack and launched anti-aircraft missiles. After the strike, the Israeli jets again took a

patrolling area 70km west off the Syrian coast, set up jamming and probably prepared to attack again.

At 21:59 one of the Israeli airplanes started maneuvering towards the Syrian coast approaching the Il-20 that was coming to land. Syrian air defence units considered it as another attack.

The Israeli pilot did realize that the Il-20 airplane had a much larger radar cross-section than that of the F-16 jet, and it was the Russian aircraft that would be the preferred target for the anti-aircraft missile.

Moreover, Israeli military also knew that Russia and Syria used different friend-or-foe systems, and Syrian radar can identify Il-20 as a group target of the Israeli jets. At this time, the Il-20 airplane making a maneuver for final approach towards the Hmeymim air base turned out to be into the path of Syrian air defence systems targeting the Israeli jets.

It is to be stressed that the Israeli jets saw the Russian Il-20 and used it as a cover to evade from anti-aircraft missile and carried on maneuvering in the region.

At 22:03 a Syrian anti-aircraft missile engaged a larger and closer target – Il-20 airplane. The commander reported on the fire on board and emergency descent. At 22:07 the Russian Il-20 survey airplane went off the radars. Meanwhile, the Israeli jets did not leave for their air space but stayed in the region and continued patrolling in the air till 22:40.

At 22:29 an officer of the Russian group in Syria reported to the Israeli officer at the Air Force command post, “As a result of the attack carried out by the Israeli side, the Russian Il-20 aircraft is in distress. We demand that Israeli aircraft leave the region as we engage our rescue forces”. An Israeli lieutenant replied that he received the information and would forward it to the command.

Only at 22:53 which is 50 minutes after the Il-20 was hit by a missile, a colonel (officer on duty) of the Israeli Air Force Command Centre came on the radio and reported: “We got your information on the Il-20 in distress. We left the zone. If you need assistance, we are ready to help”.

The presented objective data testify that the actions of Israeli fighter pilots, which led to the loss of 15 Russian servicemen, and prove either lack of professionalism, or at least criminal negligence.

Therefore, we believe that the blame for the tragedy with the Russian Il-20 aircraft lies entirely with the Israeli air forces and those who made the decision about this provocation.

I would like to emphasize that the actions of the Israeli Air Force fighter aircraft in the evening of September 17 were carried out in the final approaches area to the Hmeymim airfield used not only by military but also civilian passenger aircraft.

Thus, Israeli jets created a direct threat to any passenger and transport aircraft that could be there at that time and become victims of the adventurism of the Israeli military.

Currently, at the crash site of the Russian Il-20, 27 kilometers west of the port of Banias, a search operation is carried out to retrieve bodies of the deceased, and wreckage from the water.

Israeli pilots behaved extremely different from that of American aviation in the region.

You know that we have a communication channel to prevent air incidents – the sides inform each other in advance about plans for the use of aviation in various areas of Syria. This enables us to take timely measures to exclude any situations that threaten Russian and American servicemen both in the air and on the ground.

The Russian side has never violated the agreement with Israel and has not used Russian air defence weapons deployed in Syria, even despite the fact that Israel's air strikes caused cases that threatened security of Russian servicemen.

During the course of the agreements, the Israeli Air Force Command Center received 310 notifications on the actions of the Russian military aviation close to the Israeli territory.

At the same time, Israel gave only 25 notifications, just before the attacks.

In the context of constructive Russian-Israeli cooperation in the Syrian Arab Republic, it is difficult for us to understand what caused these actions by Tel Aviv. This is an extremely ungrateful response to all that has been done by the Russian Federation for Israel and the Israelis recently.

I would like to remind you that as a result of the operation conducted in the Southwestern de-escalation zone in Syria by government troops supported the Russian Air Force, this summer, the UN peacekeeping contingent deployed on borders between Syria and Israel in the Golan Heights was able to resume its work in accordance with the UN Security Council Resolution № 350 dated 1974.

On August 2, 2018, after a six-year hiatus, the UN peacekeeping contingent accompanied by the Russian military police organised the first patrolling of the Golan Heights area.

This allowed completely to exclude shelling attacks at Israeli territory from the Golan Heights.

Currently, six observation posts of the Russian military police have been organised displayed along the “Bravo” line, which provide security for the staff of the UN mission.

In order to prevent missile strikes from Iran-backed formations, Israel requested to settle situation in the area adjacent to the Golan Heights where Iran-backed formations deploy heavy weapons.

Russia held consultations with Iran, during which Tehran notified that it did not consider it right to aggravate the situation in the area and had no aggressive intentions against Israel.

As a result, all Iran-backed formations with heavy weapons, with the assistance of Russian servicemen, were withdrawn from the Golan Heights to a safe distance for Israel - more than 140 kilometers to the east of Syria.

A total of 1,050 personnel, 24 MLRSs and tactical missiles, as well as 145 pieces of other armaments and military hardware were withdrawn from the area.

At the request of Israel, the command of the Russian group in Syria repeatedly dispelled Israel’s concerns that so-called "sensitive" samples of military items shipped from Russia to Syria may be transferred to a third side.

Israel has repeatedly stressed the importance of the work carried out by the Russian Ministry of Defence in this area and expressed gratitude to Russian specialists.

In 2016, at the urgent request of the Chief of the General Staff of the Israel Defense Forces, Lieutenant-General Gadi Eisenkot, the Israeli side was handed over the Magach-3 tank, captured in 1982 in Lebanon, and kept in Russia.

The tank was transferred in presence of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

The Russian Ministry of Defence rendered assistance to preserve Jewish sacred objects and burials in the city of Aleppo.

Interaction was carried out through President of the Federation of Jewish Communities (FJC) of Russia Alexander Boroda. - Mossad Asset.

This work was highly appreciated by the Israeli Defence Minister Avigdor Lieberman. I'm sure...

Besides, Israel appealed to Russia with a request to find the remains of Israeli servicemen at specific coordinates in Syria. The search works were organized after Russia agreed the search operation with Syrian partners at the operational level.

The special search operation was conducted in the area of combat operations in the territory controlled by ISIS. Terrorist suddenly attacked the Russian servicemen involved in searching operation. During the battle, a Russian special forces soldier was wounded. Still Russia was ready to carry on the operation.

Against this background, hostile actions taken by the Israeli Air Force, committed against the Russian Il-20 aircraft, go beyond the civilized relations.

Objective data of September 17 events presented to you today show that the military leadership of Israel either does not appreciate the level of relations with Russia, or does not control individual commands and commanders who understood that their actions would lead to tragedy.

Thank you for attention.”

LMFS wrote:MoD's briefing on the downing of the Il-20:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg9GliGS0RY

Russia doesn't have functional Laser AA systems.

Russia blamed clearly to Israel. There is not return. Russia is doing it because is ready to answer.

Now, neither the Israeli media nor the pro-US and pro-Israel elements on internet will dictate the answer.

Vann7 wrote:And the MoD reports , clearly expose Israel special forces operations in Syria aiding ISIS...   l

Russia blamed clearly to Israel. There is not return. Russia is doing it because is ready to answer.

Now, neither the Israeli media nor the pro-US and pro-Israel elements on internet will dictate the answer.

yep.. the military version of the events prevailed.. Putin not even meet the Israel delegation.. and according to reports , they were just a few minutes , and the meeting was ended in very short time.. So things did not go well.
So in the next few days or weeks.. it will be a matter of time , Israel planes get shot down by Russia..because
they will continue the provocations ..  so relations will only get worse. Russian military will never forget this attack on their plane.. provoked by Israel. one Yars missile hit on telaviv.. is all that Russia needs to break the Israel state in pieces.. and the Israel military knows this.. They have no way to win in a full scale war against Russia. will need Americans support to defend against Russia ,but even with NATO support ,technically speaking, this will neither shield Israel from Russian hypersonic missiles penetrating Israel defenses.

So how events could evolve in Syria ?

-Israel continues provocations against Russia ,ignoring Russian demands.. to stop threatening
their military security..
- Russian airforce or AA defenses Shot down Israeli planes..
- Israel retaliates and bomb Russia military base.. "in self defense they will claim"
-Russia retaliates and strike Israel military bases..
-Israel sink a warship of Russia
-Putin show on TV telling Russians ,they tried everything ,but Israel is out of control and have declared war on Russia.. and the security of their entire nation is at risk..  and so that he have given the order of a major nuclear strike on Israel.
- The fight is over and Israel state defeated..

You also have the Iranian part.. Which Russia can use too.. so they strike first ,and then when Israel air defenses in need for a reloading.. BANG. Russia strike with a nuke..  I dont see IRAN staying quiet ,if Russia and Israel start a war.. they will take revenge too.. and using their forward positions in Syria ,they can guide all their missiles right to the heart of Israel.

There are many other possible scenarios with Israel being the ones ,to strike first with nukes.. but which ever case is..  Israel will be in a major disadvantage.. their small state ,can't take too much damage.. and their nuclear reactors ,will be become a huge security problem for them..  So IRAN striking Israel nuclear reactors ,can do enough assymetric damage as if IRAN had nukes.. This is why ,Trump and Netanyahu are demanding IRAN to stop its ballistic conventional program.. they are right.. it do represent a major threat to their nation.. and so the conventional missiles of any other nation too..

Vann7 wrote:
-Israel continues provocations against Russia ,ignoring Russian demands.. to stop threatening
their military security..

- Russian airforce or AA defenses Shot down Israeli planes..

- Israel retaliates and bomb Russia military base.. "in self defense they will claim"

-Russia retaliates and strike Israel military bases..

-Israel sink a warship of Russia

-Putin show on TV telling Russians ,they tried everything.....  and so that he have given the order of a major nuclear strike on Israel.

 So IRAN striking Israel nuclear reactors ,can do enough assymetric damage as if IRAN had nukes..

JohninMK wrote:“In addition, as we saw during this incident, the use of advanced weapons by irresponsible entities significantly endangers the area and can severely harm forces operating in the region.”

eehnie wrote:JohninMK, your comment seems off-topic to me.