Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

well, since it is human error, guess what will happen? Someone will lose their job over this.

Big_Gazza wrote:Soyuz 2.1b rebounds from failure at Vostochny with a successful launch from Plesetsk of the Lotos-S1.  Thats more like it!!  

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/lotos-s1-803.html

That's more like it. 

Funny how you never hear of that kind of crap happening in Plasetsk even though they are also ones who test run unfamiliar and new equipment.

But there is no shortage of fuckups in civilian ran outfits.

Proof that more and larger boots need to be inserted into some asses ASAP.

'
Looks like there won't be delays of next launch from Vostochniy slated for 22nd December after all

Also all ground infrastructure there worked without a problem

http://www.interfax.ru/russia/590042

Where can I apply to be a russian rocket assembler where I work 2 days per week, apparently dont need a clean record or good education and jam sensors upside down for a good wage? :sarcasm:

Big_Gazza wrote:Latest word of Fregat issue on the recent failed launch.  Clearly a failure of project administration and an artefact of the brain drain of 90s & 00s.  In the old days, senior engineers would have been all over this, but nowadays it seems the industry lacks the old-timers who knew their craft, and there is a gulf between non-technical business managers and the relatively-young Engineers working at the coal-face.

In the days following the November 28 accident, Russian space officials and the wider engineering space community also did some soul-searching on the underlining causes leading to the bizarre error during the launch. First of all, a number of experts, pointed out that the overall cause of the accident was a rare confluence of rotation angles within the gyroscopic system of the Fregat upper stage which had not been accounted for in the software of its onboard flight control computer. Such a confluence could only be generated by the particular navigational situation in Vostochny and had never been encountered during the previous 66 launches of Soyuz-2 rockets from Baikonur, Plesetsk and Kourou.

According to a post on the online forum of the Novosti Kosmonavtiki magazine, the Fregat stage for the ill-fated first mission from Vostochny was originally built for the launch of the Rezonans scientific satellites from Baikonur.

At the same time, experts agree that the problem could theoretically have been resolved before launch, if not for the poor coordination between the developers of the flight control systems of the Soyuz-2 launch vehicle and their colleagues working on flight controls for the Fregat. As one poster on the Novosti Kosmonavtiki forum noted: in the deluge of pre-launch paperwork between RKTs Progress in Samara, which built Soyuz-2, and NPO Lavochkin, which developed Fregat, discussing a multitude of legal issues, confirming and reconfirming various agreements and reminders, there was not a single memo attracting the developers’ attention to a different alignment of the launch pad in Vostochny from that of other sites. Obviously, such information was buried in the working documentation on the mission, but nobody thought about the effect of this fact on the launch. The lower echelon of engineers simply missed that detail, while top managers had no idea at all, because, the majority of them lacked the necessary qualifications, the poster said…

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/meteor-m2-1.html#1203

I modify my comments made earlier about someone losing their job, unless that job is some mid-high level managerial piece of useless deadwood sponging off the public purse.

Discussions between company lawyers have next to nothing to do with the jobs of the engineers. Any engineer working at this shop would
have known to change the flight control parameters if they were actually qualified for their jobs. Looks like the project managers are
unqualified hacks and never established a project branch to deal with this "technical" issue. BTW, this is not just Russia's problem.
It is popular in Canada and elsewhere to use managers with zero knowledge of the work they oversee. Supposedly the skills that
managers have are so universal they do not need to know any technical details. Utter nonsense theory, of course. And we seem
to see the result of this theory in practice in this case. (Once again, Russia imports some fad from the west and f*cks itself in the a**).

All Soyuz launches with Fregat upper stage have been delayed, including one from Vostochnii (Spring 2018 next possible date)

Thank you morons...

https://iz.ru/679446/dmitrii-strugovetc-sergei-valchenko/rossiiskaia-kosmicheskaia-programma-uletela-v-budushchee

the theory too that you need to pay people more for better quality is also a sham too, and that is evident even with India's space program. It really has more to do with lack of oversight and proper management, along with QC. You would think with modern technology it would be easier, but it isn't. Instead, there is a lot of oversight that needs to be dealt with.

They will continue experimenting with different ideas to fix these issues till they finally find that "one" that will work. Of course it will end up costing a lot over time and hurting reputation, but what is more important is for the domestic launches.

miketheterrible wrote:the theory too that you need to pay people more for better quality is also a sham too, and that is evident even with India's space program.  It really has more to do with lack of oversight and proper management, along with QC.  You would think with modern technology it would be easier, but it isn't.  Instead, there is a lot of oversight that needs to be dealt with.

They will continue experimenting with different ideas to fix these issues till they finally find that "one" that will work.  Of course it will end up costing a lot over time and hurting reputation, but what is more important is for the domestic launches.

You need to pay new people more money because old people have developed a case of ego.

Paying old people more is flushing money down the toilet. Pay new people more and get rid of old ones who have track record of fucking up.

Roscosmos named the cause of the launch failure from Vostochny

Crash of the upper stage (RB) "Fregat" with 19 satellites that were launched from the Vostochny cosmodrome rocket "Soyuz-2.1 b" November 28, 2017, due to the fact that the unit control system has calculated the rotation in the wrong direction.....

http://tass.ru/kosmos/4803877




Rogozin however calls bullshit on the Roskosmos report (and rightly so):

"
According to the Vice-Premier of the government, insights on this situation can only be done after the establishment of the exact error and the responsible individuals......

....The results of operation of the emergency Commission of the Russian space Agency can not be considered complete, up to the end objective, because it does not answer the main question - as could be allowed such an error in the calculation and who is responsible for this", he said..........

http://tass.ru/kosmos/4806385





Preliminary design of the rocket "Soyuz-5" has been approved

http://tass.ru/kosmos/4806797




Russia to start building launch pad for Angara rocket in 2018

Russian will begin building a launch pad for the new generation space rocket Angara at the Vostochny spaceport early next year....

(Yes, they typed ''Russian''    )

http://tass.com/science/977754

Soyuz MS-07 with three crew members gets to orbit

Russian cosmonaut Anton Shkaplerov (crew’s captain), NASA astronaut Scott Tingle, and JAXA astronaut Norishige Kanai are heading for the International Space Station

BAIKONUR /Kazakhstan/, December 17. /TASS/. Piloted Soyuz MS-07 with three members of a new expedition to the International Space Station (ISS), which took off Baikonur, has reached the orbit and begun a flight to ISS, Russia’s space authority Roskosmos said on Sunday.

The carrier took off Baikonur at 10:21 Moscow time. On board the ship, heading for the International Space Station, are Russian cosmonaut Anton Shkaplerov (crew’s captain), NASA astronaut Scott Tingle, and JAXA astronaut Norishige Kanai.

Soyuz will be flying to ISS for two days. The spacecraft is due to dock ISS on December 19 at 11:42 Moscow time.

At the Station, the crew will work with Progress MS cargo ships, with the U.S. Dragon spacecraft, will make scientific research and experiments and will have a few spacewalks.


More:
http://tass.com/science/981550

Contact Lost With 1st Angolan Satellite That Was Launched From Baikonur - Source

A Zenit carrier rocket with Angola's first satellite AngoSat-1 was launched from the Baikonur spaceport in Kazakhstan on December 26.
A source told Sputnik that contact had been lost with Angola's first satellite, AngoSat-1, launched on Tuesday from the Baikonur spaceport.
"The 'Fregat' upper-stage rocket regularly got in touch with the Angolan satellite in a normal mode after the first round along the Earth's orbit, all systems worked properly, but later contact was lost and the telemetry ceased to arrive," the source said.
According to the source, the AngoSat-1 is likely to be recognized as inoperable.
A Zenit carrier rocket with Angola's satellite was launched from the Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan after being postponed several times. Initially, it was planned that the satellite would be sent into orbit this summer, then the launch date was set for September. It was subsequently rescheduled for October, November and then December.
The rocket placed the satellite into the planned orbit and the satellite separated from the transfer orbit stage, according to the representative of Russia's Roscosmos State Corporation.
The AngoSat-1 project is a communications satellite with a geostationary orbit which was built by Russia's RSC Energia company. The project has been underway since 2012.

[size]
NATO has a secret super weapon for Space denial and theyre using it to sabotage Russian space launches to smear reputation of Roscosmos, this is probably part of their bigger destroy Russia's  economy campaign. [/size]

Project Canada wrote:.............
NATO has a secret super weapon for Space denial and theyre using it to sabotage Russian space launches to smear reputation of Roscosmos, this is probably part of their bigger destroy Russia's  economy campaign. 

Yes, it's called Roskosmos' incompetent personnel.

Rogozin said he is not satisfied with report on previous fuckup and that he wants names of morons responsible. They refused to give names.

Hopefully after this latest fuckup we will finally get some names. That good-old-boys club needs to be assraped into discipline.




Zenit is Ukranian rocket, Baikonur is Kazakh spaceport. Hopefully this will be another motivation for Russian space industry to do what rest of the economy has been doing for years:



Vostochnii Spaceport, Angara, Soyuz 1, Soyuz-5, Federation capsule and good old boot-up-the-ass. I know it's supposed to be rocket science but it's actually really simple..

Big_Gazza wrote:I don't accept that a satellite that has just passed a series of hardware, software and integration tests can possibly lose telemetry within hours of final separation from its upper stage....

If this report is in fact true (and I'll withhold judgement until the news comes from a reputable agency, not some anonymous "source") then WTF is going on?  This sort of shit simply does not happen to others. It's not "incompetence" or "corruption".  There are other mechanisms at work here.

It's precisely what it is. Equipment fails because someone fucked up during manufacture or installation. Humans handle both.

This shit does not happen to others because others immediately produce list of names of people who fuck up unlike Roskosmos where they close ranks to cover their own asses.

One more thing: others don't have their space industry strewn across 2 continents, 3 countries and 500 separate companies and subcontractors.

It's all nice and centralized. Everywhere from NASA and CNSA to SpaceX and Indian Space Research Organization, it's always one tightly supervised entity.

But with Russia you have one massive fucking anarchy where everyone does whatever the fuck he wants and nobody is ever responsible for anything.

Trust me, they would love for people to once again swallow fairytale how there are ''other mechanisms at work here''. Horseshit!!!

Why are there never fuckups like this on Plasetsk even though they use identical equipment as Roskosmos? Supervision and list of names, that's why.

Names. List. Now. Rogozin said it already.

No excuses.

PapaDragon wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:I don't accept that a satellite that has just passed a series of hardware, software and integration tests can possibly lose telemetry within hours of final separation from its upper stage....

If this report is in fact true (and I'll withhold judgement until the news comes from a reputable agency, not some anonymous "source") then WTF is going on?  This sort of shit simply does not happen to others. It's not "incompetence" or "corruption".  There are other mechanisms at work here.

It's precisely what it is. Equipment fails because someone fucked up during manufacture or installation. Humans handle both.

This shit does not happen to others because others immediately produce list of names of people who fuck up unlike Roskosmos where they close ranks to cover their own asses.

One more thing: others don't have their space industry strewn across 2 continents, 3 countries and 500 separate companies and subcontractors.

It's all nice and centralized. Everywhere from NASA and CNSA to SpaceX and Indian Space Research Organization, it's always one tightly supervised entity.

But with Russia you have one massive fucking anarchy where everyone does whatever the fuck he wants and nobody is ever responsible for anything.

Trust me, they would love for people to once again swallow fairytale how there are ''other mechanisms at work here''. Horseshit!!!

Why are there never fuckups like this on Plasetsk even though they use identical equipment as Roskosmos? Supervision and list of names, that's why.

Names. List. Now. Rogozin said it already.

No excuses.

You have been pushing your BS theory about how Russians are grossly incompetent since the beginning.

Put up, or shut up. You know precisely f*ck all about the cases involved and are making the typical NATO
drone f*cktard conclusions based on MSM conditioning.

At least others have the indirect evidence that Russians can produced world leading technology. Yet you
want us to believe they are mud hut dwellers who don't know how to use it. Obviously your line of
"thinking" is extremely inadequate.

Big_Gazza wrote:I don't accept that a satellite that has just passed a series of hardware, software and integration tests can possibly lose telemetry within hours of final separation from its upper stage....

If this report is in fact true (and I'll withhold judgement until the news comes from a reputable agency, not some anonymous "source") then WTF is going on?  This sort of shit simply does not happen to others.  It's not "incompetence" or "corruption".  There are other mechanisms at work here.

The failure modes are all trivial level. This is actual information about what is going on. Russians make advanced tech, but screwup the Mickey
Mouse operation details. Only NATO residents can swallow such BS.

NATO has had since before 1991 to extend its corrupt influence inside Russia. It leveraged the anti-communist sentiments back during the 1980s
and now leverages similar delusions as seen in Banderastan. You have examples like Rodchenkov and the whole WADA circus. Roscosmos
is beyond a doubt infiltrated with scumbags who are engaged in sabotage. It is extremely difficult to weed out low level spies. If all they
do is engage in an occasional sabotage incident they are not leaving a rich trail of evidence behind them. So Russia needs to up its game
and videotape 24/7 every part of the rocket and payload. Every computer system must be under 24/7 logging and no root access should
be granted to any employee. Security at Roscosmos should be specially set up by the FSB and not contracted out.

Big_Gazza wrote:If someone fucked up during manufacture or installation it would be detected during spacecraft testing (which should be rigorous and arduous). .........

As we can see testing was neither rigorous not arduous...

kvs wrote:You have been pushing your BS theory about how Russians are grossly incompetent since the beginning.
Put up, or shut up. You know precisely f*ck all about the cases involved and are making the typical NATO
drone f*cktard conclusions based on MSM conditioning

Since the beginning? See this is the moment when it's your turn to put up or shut up. Until then you are one who knows precisely fuck all.

Fucktard drone...

As for me putting up, I present you exibit A: Angosat-1, dead in orbit.

I rest my case.

kvs wrote:...
At least others have the indirect evidence that Russians can produced world leading technology.

Given the recent track record, definitely indirect at best...

And just on time:

https://lenta.ru/news/2017/12/27/rogozin/

...Rogozin admitted that made on 28 Nov at Vostochny failed launch of the rocket with the upper stage was calculated at the start from another point. "Settings were indeed under Baikonur: did not consider azimuth", — said Deputy Prime Minister and acknowledged that the incident is the result of "systemic errors in management in the management of the Corporation"....

Yeah, as expected, secret NATO space denial weapon my ass.

Names. List. Boot up the ass. Now.

Not that shocking really... NASA lost several rockets because their engineers worked in imperial measures while their marketing departments were metric and number conversions were not made properly...