Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

Hole wrote:If i remember correctly one of the crew members of the challenger was a regular teacher = the first space tourist. But she didn´t go very far.

Just goes to prove that tourists are a bad idea in space - they should go to Hawaii or Lanzarote instead.

She´s the only "space tourist" killed so far. You could also die diving or bungee-jumping. Also it would be much cheaper dying that way. But also more boring.

Hole wrote:She´s the only "space tourist" killed so far. You could also die diving or bungee-jumping. Also it would be much cheaper dying that way. But also more boring.

She was civilian but wasn't a tourist. Tourists pay for trip, she was trained crewman.

Yes... it was an education programme thing to promote NASA to US school children and not tourism... any more than a biology specialist going into space to do bio experiments is a tourist...

If I remember correctly, the first Tourist was a Brit named Helen Sharman or something... the first British person in space... thanks Soviet Union... no thanks to the best ally US...

I seem to remember the plan was to pay for the flight via several British companies but the money fell through so the Soviets ended up footing the bill... typical Brit.

PapaDragon wrote:

Hole wrote:She´s the only "space tourist" killed so far. You could also die diving or bungee-jumping. Also it would be much cheaper dying that way. But also more boring.

She was civilian but wasn't a tourist. Tourists pay for trip, she was trained crewman.

Like the "tourists" flying with russian soyuz to the ISS.

Like the "tourists" flying with russian soyuz to the ISS.

The first ones flew to MIR I think in 1990 a Japanese reporter was sent up to MIR payed for by the company they worked for...

Probably Denis Tito was the first to pay for themselves... which is more tourist... whereas previously the money had be raised by others or covered as work expense....

NASA: Roscosmos conclusion about the appearance of a hole in the "Union" may not indicate an evil intent

https://tass.ru/kosmos/5633583

OK so US astronauts did drill the hole but with noble cause

Roscosmos has signed a contract to build a start for the "Angara" in the East

The head of the corporation Dmitry Rogozin said that the volume of capital investments will amount to 38.7 billion rubles

https://tass.ru/kosmos/5634367

Asteroid 2015 TB145 has been nicknamed "death comet" and a "Halloween asteroid." Even NASA called it the "Great Pumpkin." It's coming back into Earth's neighborhood, but it's not going to scare anybody for Halloween.

https://www.cnet.com/news/that-creepy-skull-asteroid-will-be-a-halloween-miss/

This happened this morning, why am I first one posting it?

Everyone is fine

Soyuz MS-10 Emergency Lands in Kazakhstan, Crew Feels Well - Roscosmos Head

https://sputniknews.com/world/201810111068785038-accident-soyuz/



I am actually shocked at seeing Trampoline Man acting with dignity instead of ranting about conspiracies and blaming this on NASA sabotage. Someone must have squeezed his grapes earlier....

Statistically it was bound to happen at some point but given the clown-show Roscosmos has devolved into it could be anything at this point.

Any responsible and competent organization would respond to this incident by looking into it's company structure and manufacturing process, identifying problems and people responsible and making necessary changes.

On the other hand this is Trampoline Man's Roskosmos so what they will do is a mystery.

A lot of people are coming to consensus that Russia is not capable of sustaining manned space program anymore. Old, technology, old factories, old vessels, old personnel and old management.

They have been limping along for decades on old Soviet tech but even that is not enough if you insist on being staffed by geriatric leftover who are paid in peanuts.

Pay peanuts-get monkeys...

Either invests money, develop new platforms and hire new people or stop risking innocent people's lives in the name of your inflated ego built on someone else's old glory.




At least there are upsides here: Borisov also started talking like a responsible human being for a change. If this means that Russian space officials (and nation in general) will discover concept of basic dignity and decency then this crash might not be total waste after all.

Russia hopes USA will be understanding about "Soyuz" incident

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-space-launch/russia-hopes-usa-will-be-understanding-about-soyuz-incident-ifax-idUSKCN1ML1BM?il=0



Unrelated news:

Test Launch of Russia's New Unmanned Space Vehicle Could Be Postponed - Source

Not as bad as it sounds, couple more trial runs for Soyuz-5 before main event.

Hopefully given today's events they will stop dragging their feet on this topic

We don't know the wages of the specialists.  As well, neither do we have the age.

Old technology, maybe, but new built.  Why fix what isn't broken?  If the system has worked for so long, then keep producing them.  In this case, system failed in one aspect but everything else worked thus the astronauts came back alive.  It isn't like they are recycling the machines.  These are new built machines.  The facilities look no different than any other facility that has undergone modernization.  Actually, Soyuz has been the best performing system.  PLUS, if this is the Soyuz 2, it is of a newer variant since they were making them since 2004.  So it isn't really old glories.  Just takes the best of what they obtained from the old Soyuz-U.

Maybe what is best is to re-orientate, get newer brains involved and of course increase funding - or slash funding in unnecessary projects and re-orientate towards others.  But that doesn't matter actually cause Soyuz itself in its entirety has been a good vessel.  But also suffered failures in the past.  Doesn't mean much.  It wasn't like the Shuttle program were it ended up costing plenty of lives.

Edit: But after doing a quick research - the facility were they are made - there was an investigation going on last year for fraud and misuse of funds caused by certain employees.

But how do you fix that to be honest?  Fire them and then you have to replace them.  But with who?  Some of these people are rather in need cause such specialists are not that easy to find.

But I stand firm here - the platform isn't the problem.  Neither is the facility itself cause Progress has undergone modernization of the years.  And the platform - Soyuz-2, is rather new.  And not all employees look geriatric.  Actually, only 2 people they seem to show a lot so I am assuming they are the long time skilled managers/supervisors.  But unless someone can point out to me how much they get paid etc, I don't think that has anything to do with it either.

A criminal investigation has been opened because there may have been a specific policy that was broken.  That is all I am understanding from it.

The part I'm concerned about from you is stating that people question Russia's ability to send people to space. How come? Soyuz-2 proven to Excell quite well. Production of it is all local and is still being made, no factory was closed, they have been sending people to space all these years and still do and the only other alternative is from China and theirs is a knock off of the Soyuz anyway.

http://tass.com/emergencies/1025580

So first time ever for insurance payout for a manned flight. And first failure of this type in 35 years.

So it should be easy to figure out what went wrong

miketheterrible wrote:...........
But how do you fix that to be honest?  Fire them and then you have to replace them.  But with who?  Some of these people are rather in need cause such specialists are not that easy to find.........

S7 doesn't seem to be having too many issues with it

If airline company can get things moving along then national space agency should at least do as well if not better

People (competent and willing) are there and plenty of them, what lacks is planning and budget

miketheterrible wrote:..........But I stand firm here - the platform isn't the problem. ........

It never was, everything else around it though...




To their defense they aren't unique, every government space program seems to be mismanaged these days:

NASA's Mars rocket is behind schedule and over budget due to 'Boeing's poor performance,' audit finds

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/space/go-for-launch/os-nasa-sls-delay-report-20181010-story.html



But same rule here applies as it does for comparisons with SpaceX: someone else's shenanigans do no excuse Roscosmos' incompetence  

They have their own lost of jobs to do and discussing successes or failures of others is not on the list

Where is the incompetence? This is a complex machinery. Tens of thousands of parts have to work perfectly. 2 failures in 35 years! With no loss of life!

Compare it with the Formula 1. Every part of every car is hand crafted. Tested again and again. Still in every race at least one car has a technical problem. Even Mercedes and Ferrari. And space tech is much more complex than a racing car.

There are f...ing bus stops behind scedule.

I can't comment on S7 as im not familiar with it. It's neat that private Russian firm has their own space corporation.

Are they planning to replace zenit with something else?

Big_Gazza wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
S7 doesn't seem to be having too many issues with it

If airline company can get things moving along then national space agency should at least do as well if not better

Remind me again how many payloads S7 has launched?...

They hired more competent people in one year than Roskosmos did in past 2 decades

And are you really going to do the whole snark thing again?

Because I remember you all laughing your asses off here several years ago when SpaceX started working and here we are today with SpaceX stealing Roskosmos' lunch money while you all whine about how it's "unfair"

This crash plus entire junkyard full of crashed unmanned rockets is something that stinks to high heaven

They should either get their sh*t together or bow out with dignity

Any responsible and competent organization would respond to this incident by looking into it's company structure and manufacturing process, identifying problems and people responsible and making necessary changes.

Ahhh fuck off...

if it was a company structure problem or a manufacturing process problem then why does it only manifest every 35 fucking years...

I would accuse you of being Vann but you didn't actually say it was Putins fault.

A lot of people are coming to consensus that Russia is not capable of sustaining manned space program anymore. Old, technology, old factories, old vessels, old personnel and old management.

Yeah... the whole programme should be cancelled and all the people going to and from the ISS should go by American rockets... oops they don't have any that don't use Russian rocket motors...

Have you noticed that a lot of people are idiots that think American put people on the moon...

They have been limping along for decades on old Soviet tech but even that is not enough if you insist on being staffed by geriatric leftover who are paid in peanuts.

Pay peanuts-get monkeys...

Either invests money, develop new platforms and hire new people or stop risking innocent people's lives in the name of your inflated ego built on someone else's old glory.

Yeah, soviet crap operated by monkeys... BTW do you advise US politicians on black and white?

Russia hopes USA will be understanding about "Soyuz" incident

America can go fuck itself... it has already said it was happy to cooperate with the Russians but that they are working hard on replacing the Russian rockets with US rocket motors.... obviously so they can cooperate better...

Unrelated news:

Test Launch of Russia's New Unmanned Space Vehicle Could Be Postponed - Source

Not as bad as it sounds, couple more trial runs for Soyuz-5 before main event.

Hopefully given today's events they will stop dragging their feet on this topic

How can they call it new if it is Soviet tech?

And they have to drag their feet... they are monkeys remember...

We don't know the wages of the specialists. As well, neither do we have the age.

Why inject facts into a rant?

Tantrums don't require or benefit from facts.

The part I'm concerned about from you is stating that people question Russia's ability to send people to space. How come?

Obviously he did a poll and collated the results and ran them through a super computer and then pulled a statement of a butt hurt teenager upset that something has gone wrong out of his ass.

S7 doesn't seem to be having too many issues with it

Now who is talking shit... the Soviet Union never made S7s.

If airline company can get things moving along then national space agency should at least do as well if not better

Even if it is run by Monkeys?

People (competent and willing) are there and plenty of them, what lacks is planning and budget

Planning and budget?

Ahh... that is what it is... and you worked it out on your own.... almost... NASA is paying the Russians 80 something million per flight so if they scrub this mission they get the insurance money and they get paid again for another flight... it is a scam to rip off NASA...

It never was, everything else around it though...

Great, you are saying Kazakhstan is the problem?

To their defense they aren't unique, every government space program seems to be mismanaged these days:

Wait a minute... first you say it is company structure then it is everything but the rocket, and now it is mismanagement...

Are you trying to look like a tool?

Perhaps we could wait until the investigation is complete and see what sort of report they put out... it could be Putins fault...

But same rule here applies as it does for comparisons with SpaceX: someone else's shenanigans do no excuse Roscosmos' incompetence

So now it is incompetence...

Sure you don't want to get the Tarot cards out and see whose fault it also could have been?

Compare it with the Formula 1. Every part of every car is hand crafted. Tested again and again. Still in every race at least one car has a technical problem. Even Mercedes and Ferrari. And space tech is much more complex than a racing car.

F1 must use really dumb monkeys...

They hired more competent people in one year than Roskosmos did in past 2 decades

So they went for a non monkey hiring policy... great... but if they haven't launched anything yet WTF difference does that make?

Because I remember you all laughing your asses off here several years ago when SpaceX started working and here we are today with SpaceX stealing Roskosmos' lunch money while you all whine about how it's "unfair"

So that is where the butt hurt comes from...

This crash plus entire junkyard full of crashed unmanned rockets is something that stinks to high heaven

They should either get their sh*t together or bow out with dignity

They not only get their shit together every day... they can throw it real good... it is one of the few things Monkeys are really good at...

Russian spacecraft suffers setback in 165th second of flight, crew lands safely

Wait a minute... that can't be what we are talking about... surely there is a paedophile ring, or terrorists, or someone is burning an American flag...

Looks like I touched a nerve here

I would love to write a reply to this little gem but since I am not allowed to argue with mods without getting banned (again) I will settle for reading only

Speaking of things not allowed, we should not be insulting other users (there's a whole​ 'global announcement' about it) and should not be using curse words (reason for my last ban)

Love how same rules apply for everyone here, an ideal to aspire to...

Besides, getting angry at those who do not praise RussiaStronkkk!!! approach will surely send that crashed Soyuz straight back into orbit, yes sir!!!

Looks like I touched a nerve here

Funny, I was thinking it was your time of the month... your over reaction to a fault was pathetic... and I am not proud of my over reaction to your stupid post.

Wow... I am human too.

I read this thread to follow the Russian space programme, not to hear rants about the whole world falling and Russia should just give up its space programme all together if it is not going to be the best and also perfect with no mistakes at all.

I would love to write a reply to this little gem but since I am not allowed to argue with mods without getting banned (again) I will settle for reading only

Send me a PM and say what you want... I would really love to hear you back up your claims that the current Russian space agency is run by monkeys and uses all Soviet technology and facilities...

Speaking of things not allowed, we should not be insulting other users (there's a whole​ 'global announcement' about it) and should not be using curse words (reason for my last ban)

I have looked at my post again and apart from telling you to go away (ie fuck off), most of my poorly chosen curse words are related to what you said rather than you personally. Admittedly more an accident than careful design I am ashamed to admit.

Love how same rules apply for everyone here, an ideal to aspire to...

Vlad79 can break any rule he wants... it is his show... this is not a democracy... if he wants to ban someone he does not need to convince anyone else... and while I mainly ban bots I have not been spoken to yet... but hey the day is still young... and what can you expect when you get paid in peanuts right?

Besides, getting angry at those who do not praise RussiaStronkkk!!! approach will surely send that crashed Soyuz straight back into orbit, yes sir!!!

I don't really care whether you praise the Russian space industry or not, this is not about partisan politics... you did a May... there was an accident... it must be incompetence or mismanagement or quality control... someone needs to be fired... WTF is the point of investigations when you can be a shallow and just jump to the nearest stereotype knee jerk explanation...

Makes you wonder why they bother with investigations and inquiries... just ask PapaDragon... or Bellingcat... or those animals that predicted Soccer world cup results... it means you don't need the truth, but then the truth so often gets in the way of a good story now does it not?

The real monkeys were the guys runnig the russian space program in the 60´s and 70´s. Look how many accidents happened back than. People even died.

Was Rogosin head of the program back then?

And yes, F1 is run by monkeys. Driving around in circles the whole day…

And yes, F1 is run by monkeys. Driving around in circles the whole day…

That is NASCAR... isn't it?

GarryB wrote:

And yes, F1 is run by monkeys. Driving around in circles the whole day…

That is NASCAR... isn't it?

what monkeys ? what monkeys? they are apes !!!

Iskra, the engineering design bureau, is developing an emergency rescue system for the Federation spacecraft.

https://tass.ru/kosmos/5671544