He stated this during a plenary session at the Moscow Financial Forum.
“The problem is that it’s not about the economy, it’s“ I believe, I don’t believe ”- it is religion and everything. I believe, I do not believe. He (First Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance Anton Siluanov - RNS) believes in national projects, Kudrin does not believe. Unfortunately, I also do not believe it. I don’t believe it, because I don’t see a connection there between what is planned and the numbers that will be output. History will judge us, in two years everything will be clear, ”he said.
Gref added that "we are extremely interested in your success, we are talking about what can still be improved."
According to him, some of the things in national projects are good and correct, but they will not yield results.
Earlier, the head of the Accounts Chamber, Alexei Kudrin, said that the implementation of national projects would not raise Russia's economic growth to 3%. According to him, according to various institutions, the implementation of national projects will add economic growth from 0.1 to 0.6% of GDP.
“We cannot use the old management model to solve today's problems. Today, in the language of business, we usually say: you do not have a business model, we do not believe in your business model, we do not see how you will create new added value. Now the key problem is that we do not have a business model of the country's economic growth, ”he said.
Gref is one of the people who brought Russia to its knees during the 90's. He is responsible along with Chubias and Kudrin.
Essentially, whatever they say, don't believe it.
Gref and Kudrin are also being disingenuous. They believe that there is no model but there is. As well, they think the investments from the national projects wont work. Except for that is greatly wrong. Since the investments will mean construction work. Construction jobs is guaranteed to bring massive economic growth since construction accounts for a huge portion of Russia's overall economy (9%).
The point is that the two morons who are responsible for major problems in Russia, have no idea what they are doing. And because of the fact they have no idea, they just state the others have no idea and that the ideas they have suck or wont work. Its as simple as that. The fact people listen to them like Austin proves people are stupid. They fucked the economy up and then "oh, we don't know what to do but neither do they".
Its pathetic really. Gref was yelled at by Putin to actually get his act together and go to Irkutsk to help the people because he didn't do his job before hand. Now Gref is just sad because he had his little penis slapped and now has an online tantrum about how Putin's ideas are stupid.
Its so fucking funny its pathetic.
I wish Kudrin and Gref move to India and become experts for their economy there. India would collapse in a few years.
miketheterrible wrote:Gref is one of the people who brought Russia to its knees during the 90's. He is responsible along with Chubias and Kudrin.
Essentially, whatever they say, don't believe it.
Gref and Kudrin are also being disingenuous. They believe that there is no model but there is. As well, they think the investments from the national projects wont work. Except for that is greatly wrong. Since the investments will mean construction work. Construction jobs is guaranteed to bring massive economic growth since construction accounts for a huge portion of Russia's overall economy (9%).
The point is that the two morons who are responsible for major problems in Russia, have no idea what they are doing. And because of the fact they have no idea, they just state the others have no idea and that the ideas they have suck or wont work. Its as simple as that. The fact people listen to them like Austin proves people are stupid. They fucked the economy up and then "oh, we don't know what to do but neither do they".
Its pathetic really. Gref was yelled at by Putin to actually get his act together and go to Irkutsk to help the people because he didn't do his job before hand. Now Gref is just sad because he had his little penis slapped and now has an online tantrum about how Putin's ideas are stupid.
Its so fucking funny its pathetic.
I wish Kudrin and Gref move to India and become experts for their economy there. India would collapse in a few years.
Indeed. These 5th column f*cks pretend like development and transition from command economics to capitalism is some sort of walk in the park. If it was so easy, then there would be no 3rd world countries taking centuries to develop. I would fire these "critics" since their criticism is 100% destructive and not constructive. They are lying in all sorts of ways to destabilize Russia and they start by denying that development in Russia since 1999 is spectacular.
Putin is making a serious policy error by having all the discredited 1990s witchdoctor monetarists hang around offering up their BS advice. There is no need to please the enemy west. He is actually helping these clowns sabotage Russia's economy by tolerating the maggot in charge of the CBR.
miketheterrible wrote:Gref is one of the people who brought Russia to its knees during the 90's. He is responsible along with Chubias and Kudrin.
Essentially, whatever they say, don't believe it.
Gref and Kudrin are also being disingenuous. They believe that there is no model but there is. As well, they think the investments from the national projects wont work. Except for that is greatly wrong. Since the investments will mean construction work. Construction jobs is guaranteed to bring massive economic growth since construction accounts for a huge portion of Russia's overall economy (9%).
The point is that the two morons who are responsible for major problems in Russia, have no idea what they are doing. And because of the fact they have no idea, they just state the others have no idea and that the ideas they have suck or wont work. Its as simple as that. The fact people listen to them like Austin proves people are stupid. They fucked the economy up and then "oh, we don't know what to do but neither do they".
Its pathetic really. Gref was yelled at by Putin to actually get his act together and go to Irkutsk to help the people because he didn't do his job before hand. Now Gref is just sad because he had his little penis slapped and now has an online tantrum about how Putin's ideas are stupid.
Its so fucking funny its pathetic.
I wish Kudrin and Gref move to India and become experts for their economy there. India would collapse in a few years.
Indeed. These 5th column f*cks pretend like development and transition from command economics to capitalism is some sort of walk in the park. If it was so easy, then there would be no 3rd world countries taking centuries to develop. I would fire these "critics" since their criticism is 100% destructive and not constructive. They are lying in all sorts of ways to destabilize Russia and they start by denying that development in Russia since 1999 is spectacular.
Putin is making a serious policy error by having all the discredited 1990s witchdoctor monetarists hang around offering up their BS advice. There is no need to please the enemy west. He is actually helping these clowns sabotage Russia's economy by tolerating the maggot in charge of the CBR.
Or the fact that Sberbank which holds majority of Russia's wealth is ruled by a man who is a child in the brain. Or the fact that the person in charge of auditing is still allowed to voice his destructive opinion.
Kudrin hid money in the west when he was finance minister. He didn't invest a single Kopek into Russian development. All he did (and I remember this very, very well) was state same nonsense - "we need to change our policies" "we need to change law structure" "we need to modernize our government blah blah blah". All it was is just cheap talk. He never, ever once actually did anything. He did not bring forward any new idea's. I have to admit, I am jealous of the guy. He is viewed as some brilliant mind yet he accomplished absolutely jack shit. He was just viewed as a genius because he used catch phrases. And what makes it even funnier is that he said that infrastructure was a major problem for Russias growth due to lack of development. Now? When they plan to develop infrastructure, it is not going to bring any growth according to him.
Wow, just wow. And no one else can point this out?
Now Gref, well, he was the one who brought Russia to its knees back in the late 80's early 90's. Him and Chubias. And the best part about their statements - "we don't believe it will". Wonderful. Just fucking wonderful. But the question is, what WILL bring development? Let me guess "sell assets to the west and open your market up to them completely while undermining your own?" Yeah, that is exactly what they have been parading around in the past. And what did it accomplish when they did just that? Yeah, growth rate at expense of: higher unemployment, lack of development, infrastructure crumbling and local businesses couldn't compete.
The issue in Russia isn't anything these morons say. The issue is that they still go by what they want but not what reality is. They expect that exporting is will save them. It wont. What will save them is making Russians the main consumer and main provider to the economy. To do this is through a combination of protectionism of their own industries and continuous growth of wages while developing new infrastructure to handle domestic movements as well as tourism for locals.
I think LDPR is the only party able to bring Russia forward. Their nationalism is the ones demanding that Gref, Chubias and Kudrin should be behind bars for treason. In honesty, they should be.
But I would love them to be sent to India or any other country where they praise these guys. Just love to see Austin write how they destroyed their (Indian) economy rather than them destroying Russian economy.
I myself would have LOVED to be at that forum. I would have just voiced my opinion and ask these guys instead of bitching about everything, why not tell us here and now what THEIR plan is to grow Russian economy? If I am correct, I don't think Kudrin even finished what his plan was back in 2017 when Putin instructed him to come up with a plan.
What gets me is the meme "1% growth isn't growth". Sorry, that is patently false. When calculating the real GDP growth it takes into account inflation and everything else. If it means that after all its calculation is is 1% higher than last year, that is a growth. Slow growth, but a growth.
It is easy to be a critic, but really hard to be a problem solver. That is why politics is infested with all sorts of losers yapping their little heads off about how "we are on the wrong path" but collectively never making any progress on any real issues. Another feature of the political landscape is that clowns who are 100% wrong, 100% of the time are trotted out continuously as experts. I am not exaggerating. Look at Daniel Yergin the oil market "expert" whose predictions from the 1990s into the 2010s were systematically wrong. Yet he never was dumped and is always some go to source for the western media. Kudrin and Gref are filling the same role. No matter how wrong they are, they are treated like freaking god-like experts. No, they are useless morons as you describe.
kvs wrote:It is easy to be a critic, but really hard to be a problem solver. That is why politics is infested with all sorts of losers yapping their little heads off about how "we are on the wrong path" but collectively never making any progress on any real issues. Another feature of the political landscape is that clowns who are 100% wrong, 100% of the time are trotted out continuously as experts. I am not exaggerating. Look at Daniel Yergin the oil market "expert" whose predictions from the 1990s into the 2010s were systematically wrong. Yet he never was dumped and is always some go to source for the western media. Kudrin and Gref are filling the same role. No matter how wrong they are, they are treated like freaking god-like experts. No, they are useless morons as you describe.
Exactly.
Kudrin serves his purpose and I agree. All he can do is monitor the payments system. Gref on the other hand holds the key to Russias wealth. He is very dangerous and must be dealt with.
Russia spends billions on new construction projects of the century. But will the experience of the USSR help boost the economy? https://lenta.ru/articles/2019/03/25/back/
Vann7 wrote: the World needs to do ,to end the American empire?
Then the world should get on it, Russia has better things to do with itself
Vann7 wrote: So the same year Russia becomes a superior alternative to US high tech business and Lead in Space exploration. and lead in Moon and MArs and others...the year Russia achieve Success in developing a superior system, it will be the year that..
Russia will never be considered superior alternative
And they can rule entire Solar System, it won't matter one bit if the whole country collapses again due to starvation
Vann7 wrote: 1)NATO will disband
NATO will never disband, members won't allow it
It saves them too much money and they all depend on it
Vann7 wrote: 2)Europe will move towards Russian Orbit.. will follow Russia.
Europeans would all rather drink antifreeze and die than follow Russia
They are trying to exterminate it not follow it
Vann7 wrote: 3)US military bases kicked
Members would never give up those bases, they are more likely to ask for more US bases in case of crisis
Vann7 wrote: 4) Ukrainians will not longer want to join the west.. and will want to return to Russia.
The Ukrainians are irrelevant and redundant
Whole place is slowly being emptied which is excellent development
Best buffer zone is depopulated buffer zone
Vann7 wrote: 5) US authority will end.. and nobody will follow America anymore..
Countries that follow USA will keep following them until the bitter end if need be
Vann7 wrote: 6)Scientist and students from Europe andAmerican will move to Russia to be part of Russia success.
Those students would rather all starve to death than have anything to do with Russia
Vann7 wrote: 7)the year ,US will respect Russia , and US will realize they need Russia.. if don't want to be left behind ,in Russia world lead.. and so they will drop their cold/semihot war and will seek instead to negotiate for an alliance..
USA will rather nuke entire planet into extinction than be No. 2
Vann7 wrote: 8)Will avoid a world war 3 and even promote a denuclearization of the planet..
Nuclear weapons are only thing keeping the peace on this planet, only a complete moron would want them gone
We should have more nuclear weapons not less
Vann7 wrote: It is Leadership what Russia needs , and not more money.
USSR died and rotted away because it didn't have enough money
Money is only thing that matters
Vann7 wrote: China is the only nation fighting the American system..
Good luck to them and good riddance
Vann7 wrote: To disband NATO is important.. to remove Americans from Europe IS important..
Only important thing about Europe is to be available as nuclear whipping boy in case of confrontation with USA.
miketheterrible wrote:I think LDPR is the only party able to bring Russia forward.,,
LDPR are complete morons and clowns whose idiocy is only matched by their incompetence
Pakistan is a lot more unstable, but it has nukes, allied to the PRC, & India can't do nothing with it. Russia has a lot more nukes & means to deliver them & in a loose alliance with China. Georgia got already prevented from joining- so NATO can forget about exterminating Russia. They couldn't even win in Afghanistan & Syria.
Tsavo Lion wrote:Russia spends billions on new construction projects of the century. But will the experience of the USSR help boost the economy? https://lenta.ru/articles/2019/03/25/back/
lenta.ru is a liberast rag. It supports 5th columnists like Kudrin who openly call for Russia to dump its money in offshore banks and investments and to "open up" to foreign investment. Pure retard-speak. How is it better to not use your own money to invest and instead try to attract money from people who will want a juicy return on their investment. Why should Russia pay interest when it can just use its own money. And as for western investors having some sort of magical skills that Russians lack: get f*cked. Western investors can't even finish the Berlin airport rebuild and the California high speed rail project without gross overruns in time and money. Meanwhile Russia is building and has built an enormous amount of roads and bridges. Clearly Russia is fully capable of investing its own money.
This liberast rag also makes a false dichotomy by comparing the current situation to that of the USSR. BS to the Nth power. The USSR experience is not relevant since it was a command economy. Russia today is a capitalist economy where government has to follow budget constraints.
Austin wrote:If they are that pessimistic why is Putin keep them in those role , Why arnt they fired yet.
Because Putin is an idiot , and is not them who need to be fired.. but PUTIN instead.. It is Putin who controls the economic model of Russia.. he have said clearly ,that Russia will move towards a farming potatoes nation and asked all the billionaires to invest in commodities.. In other words Putin solution for Russia is the most lazy form of nation economic development ..and economic model that imitates AFrica ,Venezuela ,IRAN ,that are banana republics that depends on Gas and agriculture exports.. to exist.. ie.. commodities.
So by Russia not innovating on its economy.. it don't get the interest of enough investors to get a solid economy. Russia have to privatize its energy industry to Germany and France ,sell it to Them.. and charge a tax from every cubic meter of Natural gas the extract from Russia.. and with the money of the sale.. invest it in creating a post industrial revolution , to complete transformation of Russia economy.. from bananas and gas station ..towards a Space Exploration power ,space tourism ,High tech innovative business exports.. and towards a digital business economy in the direction of entertainment and private education. The tools already exist .. for Russia modernizing its economy. and taking it to a new level,. is called the Internet.. and a more ambitious space industry.
And in more news.. The European Commision banned Russia transport of Energy by 50% through the german local pipeline.. effectively neutralizing with a stroke of a pen,, the benefit of having Two pipelines.. Putin never learns..
My only hope is Europe completely ban Russia energy business a major slap on the face of primitive President Putin. and Russia economy face major recession and Putin popularity end and sacked from office ,for his mediocre economic model.. relying so much in primitive and LAZY economic model ,that are so easy to Block /sabotage and sanction by US or Its European accomplices in Europe.
China economic model in the other hand is not easy to sanction .. as we saw the troubles Trump have.. to do it.. for many months already.. Why is that? Because Americans NEED CHinesse business..and US can't offer alternatives to its allies as easily they can with Russian business.. that is mostly based on very old business system. So this is why Trump have been unable to ban Chinese high tech from Latin America ,Europe ,Asia. even Britain wanted help from China modernizing its Communications industry..
As a business man ,Putin is a very insecure leader.. he don't take Risk at all , he only play safe , only do the easiest and most predictable things.. If Europe in the past ,was ruled by people like Putin ,the new world America will have never been discovered..the computer never invented ,even less the internet.. because Putin only move in totally safe and predictable business environment. So like the saying says.. If you don't take risk in lives ,you will never achieve anything important .World Major inventors ,are those who decided to take Risk ,who had vision of being the best.. to Lead and do the difficult things .. instead of being a follower and stay in the comfort zone and follow/imitate others. China is innovating with its economy..
Russia is doing the very same things they have been doing since Russian empire era.. an economy *largely based* on well understood traditional business, exports of food ,mining ,oil and weapons.. There is innovation in Russia ,but largely is very minimal ,almost zero ,Russia exports in technology.. in comparison to the Big ones like US and Japan ,China ,.. Even Taiwan and South korea , nations with just 5% of Russia population are much more developed their civilians business and the entire planet aware of even the name of their companies.. Everyone knows brands like LG , Asus , Hyundai ,Samsung . But can anyone in the west name a single Russian business ,of things they can buy from Russia? not at all.. all what the primitive President Putin does , is a repetition of the Russia past economic models..Commodities base economy ,an obsolete system, that have failed miserably for Russia , in helping her ,to earn respect in the world..as a leading business economy. This is why China can fight Back Trump in his trade war.. it have Business power.. the primitive president in the other hand ,can't fight back US economy.. because he is a primitive President and don't offer any competition to US business.. Asking people to not use dollars.. is retarded.. Because most People can't live without technology ,without entertainment ,without internet ,all those things are an important part of society . And is an industry that US leads..and China now is starting to lead too but Russia not . Nobody here in this forum ,who comes to praise primitive Putin economic policies , can't be typing what they claim ,without using technology ,that US companies created. US is leading world development , period.. and this is their real power, their real influence comes from their Business.. had United States ,had the same retarded economic model of Putin , of bananas farming and pretty parks,and energy , it will have never become a world leader is today..and will not had any influence at all in the world.. or attracted international scientific minds ,to its orbit.. it will be just another Australia.. a nice tourist destination and nothing else. but leads nothing in the world..
Russia have to privatize its energy industry to Germany and France ,sell it to Them.
Fuck off.
Russia benefits from total control of its energy industry... it earns money that can be used to fund projects that benefit everyone.
It can decide about environmental issues for itself without foreign money bribing and influencing decisions where the environment gets a raw deal.
If NATO collapses then Europe wont be pushed by the US to hate Russia any more... good for Europe but bad for Russia... the British voted to leave the EU because they were sick of the EU dictating to them what they should do... I really can't see Russians enjoying being told by the EU what tariffs they can or cannot have or what workers rights laws they must adopt, or how many genders they should officially recognise.
Western investment isn't good for the Russian economy... the west doesn't do charity... if they invest they will demand a good return... if there is potential for a good return then Russia should be investing itself and not allow foreign leeches to suck their blood away. Western investment has done nothing to help Africa or much of Asia or south America. They consider themselves to be the first world and don't treat the second or third world as equals... so why bother trading with them?
Russia is better off trading with poorer countries... help them grow and develop and develop yourself... trade that is good for both sides... how unamerican... how anti west.
Many or the so called advanced economies are in reality non sustainable and based only on so called "services".
Concerning South Korea, Japan,etc, they have relatively large population (50millions Korea and 80 millions Japan), and they did not sustain a destruction of their countried less than 30 years ago.
Btw, I do not buy american products either.
Their car industry is horrible, and thanks to their participation to FIAT via the merge with Chrysler and Jeep, they managed to bring down the italian car industry too.
Concerning Vann7 idea to privatise Russia's energy industry and sell it to foreign companies, it does not need comments. As before, this user just post absurdities and rants about Russia and its president. Putin is not perfect and commits also mistakes, but he is still better then the alternatives. Furthermore most of the things that Vann considers as mistakes, are not.
As an example american economy is so not based on petrol and resources, that they try to control or destroy any country with such resources.... (irony mode off).
There must be investments in advanced technologies, but as far as I know, there are.
As an example Russia is a leader in Nuclear industry, and is now getting on par in the civil aerospace industry and in the internal electronics and sensors for airplanes.
As far as I know they produce home appliances for their internal markets, but not for export (no issue here, since politically biased western countries would not allow the import of such equipment).
So, there is still a lot to be done, but the situation is not as depicted by the user Vann7 (that I tend to believe he's behaving like a troll or like an obsessed person, like the anti communists of cold war times). I also cannot stand Italian communists, but that is because they are now a globalist antiitalian and anti worker party.
And yeah, both NATO and the European union will collapse, because they are not sustainable and they are ruining the life of the citizens of their own countries. Middle class in many European countries has already been almost fully destroyed, and slowly they are doing the same with the working class. Soon there will be only the extra rich and the servant class.
In Italy the current generation can still live someway decently thanks to the support from their parents and the fact that many of the previous generation owned houses and apartments.
My generation however will have almost no retirement pension and so they will not be able to support their children's families. In 2012, Monti, a banker and economist that was imposed by the EU as prime minister said that the Italians between 30 and 40 years old were a lost generation, and the situation did not improve in the meanwhile.
It is a sight to behold how the ridiculous notion that Russia depends on oil and gas is repeated over and over. Much like a prayer, a self-indoctrination exercise.
As of 2018 Russia's GDP fraction of all oil and gas activity was 7%. That the Russian government depends 17% on oil and gas industry for taxes merely proves that the Russian government is not a corrupt industry whore like it is in the west. The extra 10% taxation burden would have to be applied to other sectors of the economy including income taxes of individuals. So the Russian government is increasing the standard of living of Russian citizens by putting a relatively higher burden on the oil and gas sector. By contrast, in Canada and the USA, the oil industry is subsidized by the taxpayer. Stop and think about that one. Since when did one of the most profitable industries on the planet need subsidies?
kvs wrote:It is a sight to behold how the ridiculous notion that Russia depends on oil and gas is repeated over and over. Much like a prayer, a self-indoctrination exercise.
As of 2018 Russia's GDP fraction of all oil and gas activity was 7%. That the Russian government depends 17% on oil and gas industry for taxes merely proves that the Russian government is not a corrupt industry whore like it is in the west. The extra 10% taxation burden would have to be applied to other sectors of the economy including income taxes of individuals. So the Russian government is increasing the standard of living of Russian citizens by putting a relatively higher burden on the oil and gas sector. By contrast, in Canada and the USA, the oil industry is subsidized by the taxpayer. Stop and think about that one. Since when did one of the most profitable industries on the planet need subsidies?
Western fuel corporations need subsidies, tax breaks, kickbacks otherwise they wouldn't be economically competitive with their Eurasian counterparts in the hydrocarbon markets. Looks like the Westerners are the ones most afraid of free-market competition lol!
By contrast, in Canada and the USA, the oil industry is subsidized by the taxpayer. Stop and think about that one. Since when did one of the most profitable industries on the planet need subsidies?
There is an economic model where the government takes money they would normally waste on programmes to supposedly help the poor and instead of spending on things that don't work they just hand over to poor people that money for the poor people to do what they will.
Many people said it wouldn't work... all the money would be spent on booze or drugs or gambling or they would just waste it.
I thought it sounded like a crackpot idea myself, but the results show it is more successful in helping people out of poverty than any of the other much more expensive ideas governments have... in fact because it helps people out of poverty it actually costs less than doing nothing because these people are able to help themselves and get themselves out of debt circles they are stuck in.
It is amazing that people will complain about giving poor people money for nothing... it will make them lazy, or they will waste the money on booze and cigarettes or gambling or drugs... but there is no discussion about these subsidies to the rich and to money making commercial sectors to "make them more competitive".
Like I keep saying... the west is broken... but the propaganda is that poor people are lazy or stupid or criminals...
Russian holdings of US debt down to $8.5bln in July
WASHINGTON, September 17. /TASS/. Russian holdings of the US debt continued to decline this summer, reaching $8.5 billion in July, the US Department of the Treasury said on Tuesday.
Long-term US Treasury securities stood at $6.2 billion, while short-term amounted to $2.2 billion in the reported period.
Russia, once a significant holder of the US state debt, started its sell-off of US Treasury securities in spring 2018. Last April, Russian holdings were nearly halved - from some $96 billion to $48.7 billion. Next month, in May 2018, the figure further dropped to $14.9 billion.
In April 2019, Russian holdings of the US debt reached $12.136 billion.
Japan remains the biggest holder of the US state debt with $1.13 trillion dollars, followed by China with $1.11 trillion.
https://tass.com/economy/1078559
Russia, China to open offices promoting investment in Far East regions
ST. PETERSBURG, September 17. /TASS/. Russia and China will open offices promoting investment in Far East regions, the memorandum signed on the outcomes of the talks between Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev and Premier of the People's Republic of China Li Keqiang informs.
The agreement on mutual opening of offices on attracting and promoting investment was signed by the Ministry for the Development of the Russian Far East and Arctic and the China Ministry of Commerce.
Both countries’ ministries of agriculture also signed a memorandum of mutual understanding on the issues of cooperation.
Home
Latest images
Register
Log in
US is leading world development , period.. and this is their real power, their real influence comes from their Business.. had United States ,had the same retarded economic model of Putin , of bananas farming and pretty parks,and energy , it will have never become a world leader is today..and will not had any influence at all in the world.. or attracted international scientific minds ,to its orbit.. it will be just another Australia.. a nice tourist destination and nothing else. but leads nothing in the world..
