Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues
lyle6 wrote:kvs wrote:Russia must prevent Crimea from becoming a refugee camp. Many of these migrants may well be part of a Trojan horse effort.
Possibly, and one Russia's internal services should look into. Still, better Ukrainians than barbarian hordes from Asia and Africa.
PapaDragon wrote:
I'd pick Africa over these Nazi shits any day of the week
Then you haven't thought it through. You do realise that all of Europe including Russia have aging populations and need potential future workers?PapaDragon wrote:
I'd pick Africa over these Nazi shits any day of the week
jhelb and lyle6 like this post
JohninMK wrote:Then you haven't thought it through. You do realise that all of Europe including Russia have aging populations and need potential future workers?...
JohninMK wrote:Why allow in an immigrant from Africa who is unlikely to have a proper education or speak Russian or have a similar culture let alone any experience of a work ethic?...
JohninMK wrote:Over the past few years Russia has absorbed millions of them and been very thankful....
GarryB and miketheterrible like this post
While there is no denying the marked increase in Ukrainian Nazis they would still be a minority, albeit a very vocal segment at that. No reason to throw the entire basket just because of a few rotten apples and even then there is always the possibility that most of these afflicted could be cured of their brainwashing. Might take years and serious efforts but we've seen much more rapid turnarounds before.
You do realise that all of Europe including Russia have aging populations and need potential future workers?
Why allow in an immigrant from Africa who is unlikely to have a proper education or speak Russian or have a similar culture let alone any experience of a work ethic?
On the other hand an immigrant from Ukraine will have all those attributes.
OK there is a small chance that they will be a Nazi infiltrator but I expect that the authorities on Crimea are pretty good at identifying them.
Ukraine gets rid of its unwanted 'traitors' and Russia gets more people. Win win.
Over the past few years Russia has absorbed millions of them and been very thankful. As I have said before, the coup in Kiev back in 2014/15 was an enormous blessing in disguise for Russia.
And if I had to pick some, the Ukrainians would be bottom of the pile
Just because they couldn't make it westward and had to settle for Russia don't mean they suddenly stopped being assholes
kvs likes this post
Turned in what way? I wasn't aware millions of Ukrainians went and signed up en masse to complete Hitler's work during the last few years. Nor was there ever massive support (as in concrete and tangible support, not loaded polls) for the Kiev regime's barbarism to the East. Heck their sitting president himself was elected over promises to stop the violence and reintegrate the East peacefully as well as mend relations with Russia - that doesn't sound like turning on Russia and their fellow Ukrainians but the just the opposite.GarryB wrote:
They turned on Russia and Russians so easily... why would you want to recruit them into Russian society?
Screw them.
Lots of people did nothing and just watched - they call it the bystander effect. However some brave Ukrainians did rise up and took up arms against the Kiev regime and if only for their sake and their families should Russia keep the pipeline to integration flowing.GarryB wrote:
They did nothing while fellow Ukrainians were branded pro Russian and burned and shelled and bombed... now they want jobs and a nice place to live... so what... go to the back of the queue...
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kvs wrote:BTW, there is some historical context required. Kosovo is a fine example of annexation by migration. I am quite sure that
Kiev regime and its supporters would love to see Crimea annexed by flooding it with Ukrs. Even if they act nice they can
flip overnight and stab Russia in the back. The population of Crimea is 2.5 million people. Sending 1 million Ukr patriots there
would accomplish the task.
This scenario cannot be fobbed off. Anyone who dismisses it is not seriously evaluating the situation.
And what is worse, the 1 million re-occupants would be leeching off Russia and Kiev can get its re-annexation for free.
Maurizio Blondet wrote:
Living exploiting the relatives
(...)Which has an interesting side effect. When a family member asserts himself in a profession, the whole family from the village goes to visit him in the city and settles in his house, to enjoy his fortune together. An extended family of forty people and more camps and lives behind him because according to the family he has a duty to do so, consuming the substances. The successful professional cannot refuse, without breaking ubuntu and being frowned upon by the extended family group, arousing their dangerous envy (with the relative casting of jinxes by a sorcerer paid for by relatives).
This is one of the reasons why the few truly advanced and professional doctors and technicians, as soon as they can, emigrate and continue their profession in Europe, the USA or the Gulf countries, impoverishing Africa of the ruling class.
You will think he is exaggerating. But the phenomenon was so worrying that it was mentioned by Julius Nyerere (1922-1999), the father of the homeland of Tanzania and socialist, in the historic Arusha Declaration (1967), rightly considered the ideal constitution of Africa, the equivalent of the solemn preamble of the American Constitution, We the People ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arusha_Declaration
After having sanctioned the equality of all men, the fight against exploitation and poverty, in the "Good Policies" section, the Declaration explains:
“Nobody should go and stay for a long time with his relative, doing no work, because in doing so he will be exploiting his relative. Likewise, nobody should be allowed to loiter in towns or villages without doing work which would enable him to be self-reliant without exploiting his relatives."
What do you think? Look at the well-dressed young African disco lover with headphones on loitering around supermarkets, and you'll recognize the human type painfully condemned by Nyerere
Arusha declaration wrote:
c) Good Policies
The principles of our policy of self-reliance go hand in hand with our policy of socialism. In order to prevent exploitation it is necessary for everybody to work and to live on his own labour. And in order to distribute the national wealth rairly, it is necessary for everybody to work to the maximum of his ability. Nobody should go and stay for a long time with his relative, doing no work, because in doing so he will be exploiting his relative. Likewise, nobody should be allowed to loiter in towns or villages without doing work which would enable him to be self-reliant without exploiting his relatives.
in all of sub-Saharan Africa, not only in Nigeria and Cameroon, there is a category of impure "Untouchables" without rights, who cannot marry the "free" (Nwadiala), nor dance with them, not even pray for a book. They suffer all kinds of harassment. They are called OSU and they are certainly descendants of prisoners of war in the endless tribal wars, when they were dedicated as "living sacrifices to spirits" (and in fact they lived near places of worship or markets); but children and grandchildren of OSU remain OSU, ie without legal rights to own land, for example. And they must live apart from the free. It is an irreversible condition of inferiority.
Tanzania, witch-doctors say they can use albino body parts in a potion to make people rich or for good luck. Some think albinos are a kind of ghost-like creature, while some are convinced that there are magical properties in the blood, bones and skin of the albinos. The hunchbacks are also affected by this superstitious belief. Some people think that the swelling at the back can be used by witch doctors to make people rich, so they are killed and swelling taken out for the charm.
This has created a sickening black market where the body parts of albinos and hunchbacks can bring in anywhere from $500 to $2,000. In a part of the world where the per capita income is roughly $450 a year…I mean, think of the effect. This has made the albinos and the hunchbacks to hide from people, especially in the night.
well, Albanians are from a different culture and ethnic group compared to Serbians, so it is quite a different issue with the Ukrainians, who in most cases are brainwashed ethnic Russians.kvs wrote:Who says it needs to be organized like a military campaign. It only needs svidomite zealots who even get a better standard
of living in the process.
The Kiev regime does not have to pay a dime for this voluntary operation. Really, all that has to happen is for Crimea to start
becoming a refugee camp for Ukrs. Then a small number like 1 million can easily accumulate there over a period of 10-20 years.
Kosovo Albanians showed such self-organization perfectly.
Rodion_Romanovic wrote:It is way easier to integrate ukrainians (or moldovans or armenians as an example) in Russia than Africans...
The_Observer likes this post
Turned in what way? I wasn't aware millions of Ukrainians went and signed up en masse to complete Hitler's work during the last few years
Nor was there ever massive support (as in concrete and tangible support, not loaded polls) for the Kiev regime's barbarism to the East.
Heck their sitting president himself was elected over promises to stop the violence and reintegrate the East peacefully as well as mend relations with Russia - that doesn't sound like turning on Russia and their fellow Ukrainians but the just the opposite.
Its relly sad how the west and the nazis with some corrupt jews kidnaped the whole country...Ukraine made the biggest mistake when they turned to west...because they will bankrupt the country and buy everything its wort for some dollars...its fucked up situation
Nowadays is easier to do a background check. Most antirussian Ukrainian even post their hate in social media.
And it is much easier to integrate ukrainian citizens in Russia than to "russianise" ukrainian regions after 30 years of crap.
Especially that all Ukrainians, perhaps by the mere fact that they are still there, are Nazis or don't speak Russian or are potential traitors. Can we have some proof of that?
I know the mentality of my Ukrainian relatives and Garry is more right than the optimists who think that most Ukrs are reasonable
in their view of Russia.
As a starter ,the emmigrant must be young, means the catastrophics demographics situation would get worst by this move.
I tend to be against unskilled immigration even between eu countries, but unfortunately stupid EU rules do not allow to put a limit on that.
we have that also in italy, but it makes no sense. We have a lot of citizen unemployed. It makes no sense to allow seasonal immigration for stuff like fruit picking and so on when your own citizen aren't working. They prefer to keep the citizen at home with "reddito di cittadinanza" (a sort of really stupid unemployment welfare system) and import foreigners for seasonal work paid under minimum wage instead of offering an acceptable pay.GarryB wrote:Rodion Romanovic wrote:I tend to be against unskilled immigration even between eu countries, but unfortunately stupid EU rules do not allow to put a limit on that.
Seasonal work like fruit picking is a big thing for immigration... here we had a lot of owners in central otago complaining because they didn't have the usual seasonal fruit pickers because of the covid lockdowns. We also heard from our big fishing companies about Russian and Ukrainian fishermen stuck in quarantine... the fact is that they use foreigners because they don't pay a wage anyone else could live on so they import foreigners...
par far wrote:Russia should not import migrants from anywhere, Russia should increase it's own ethnic population(which they are doing). Find oit why the ethnic population is not growing and fix that problem(which Russia is doing.)
For those saying all the people in Ukraine support the current regime, have no idea what is happening in Ukraine.
People that are in the western part of Ukraine are the ones that really support the current regime. Not everyone is a Nazi, it is only a small minority.
If there are people from Ukraine coming to Crimea, they already know they will be under the eyes of Russian intelligence agencies, they are unlikely to do anything stupid. They are mostly looking for work.
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PapaDragon wrote:Rodion_Romanovic wrote:It is way easier to integrate ukrainians (or moldovans or armenians as an example) in Russia than Africans...
Wrong
Africans already in Russia are perfectly well integrated (and have done so faster than most whites especially the Ukrainians despite odds being stacked against them)
And there is zero chance that you will see Africans yelling "Slava Ukraine"
The Ukrainians will always be fully loyal to the Ukraine, Bandera may be dead but he still runs the show (this is fault of commies for not carrying out denazification after WW2)
LMFS wrote:The apparent problem with Ukraine that goes beyond the Nazi issue is the habit of thinking that someone has to provide for their needs. If they are pro-Russian it means they want Russia to take care, if they are pro-Western then they hope it will be US and EU. It is something that needs to change before that population can be integrated into Russia again beyond token quantities.
calripson wrote:par far wrote:Russia should not import migrants from anywhere, Russia should increase it's own ethnic population(which they are doing). Find oit why the ethnic population is not growing and fix that problem(which Russia is doing.)
For those saying all the people in Ukraine support the current regime, have no idea what is happening in Ukraine.
People that are in the western part of Ukraine are the ones that really support the current regime. Not everyone is a Nazi, it is only a small minority.
If there are people from Ukraine coming to Crimea, they already know they will be under the eyes of Russian intelligence agencies, they are unlikely to do anything stupid. They are mostly looking for work.
Believe it or not, there are many talented people interested in immigrating from the US, Canada, and Europe to Russia. If they are educated, politically supportive of Russian values, young, and ready to contribute and integrate into Russian society why not allow them to immigrate? I am not talking about waves of immigrants, but certainly a few million of the right type of immigrant over ten years would be a net benefit.
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lyle6