UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News #2

PapaDragon wrote:

The_Observer wrote:

Hole wrote:
T-90, drone deployable from Smerch rocket launchers.

Kamakazi drone?

Recon

Checks out the target zone so rest of the rockets can hit the bullseye on the first go

Other way around; it monitors the target zone to allow the operators to see where the salvo landed, and make corrections for the next salvo

We can see here the Serius and Helios UAVs at Army-2020

https://www.russiadefence.net/t8022p125-uavs-in-russian-armed-forces-news-2#292115

Serius UAV



Helios UAV



Grom UAV also




https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4122894.html


All manufactured by the Kronstadt Group

So we have:
Serius UAV = Inokhodets-RU/Orion-2 and is the next stage in the development of the Orion project
Helios is a radar surveillance UAV
Grom high speed strike UAV seems very interesting

PapaDragon wrote:

George1 wrote:So we have:
Serius UAV = Inokhodets-RU/Orion-2 and is the next stage in the development of the Orion project
....

Okay so if I got this right Inokhodec (Eng 'Pacer') is Orion derivative and is that double engine drone on first photo?

Inokhodets is the R&D project name of Orion




In Post n°277 the first photo is Serius(Orion-2) UAV. R&D project name Inokhodets-RU

The Sirius and the Helios looks like they are more stealthy. The materials seems to be special compare to Orion which looks to be made out of more classical plastic/composite like materials.

Altius is way bigger and meant to patrol around USA with ELINT pod.

Helios seems to be for recco with a mapping radar or for naval activities (mostly spotting ships).

Sirius is an Orion on steroids that will patrol where there is less AD. It also has the big head hosting a big antenna for satellite command.

Orion is the cheap, very used drone for the next 20 years with plenty of different versions. It will be used in heavy AD zones to take them out being smaller than the other. Present 24/7 on the front. I guess they will have 5000-10 000 of them in few years.

Isos wrote:Altius is way bigger and meant to patrol around USA with ELINT pod.

Helios seems to be for recco with a mapping radar or for naval activities (mostly spotting ships).

Sirius is an Orion on steroids that will patrol where there is less AD. It also has the big head hosting a big antenna for satellite command.

Orion is the cheap, very used drone for the next 20 years with plenty of different versions. It will be used in heavy AD zones to take them out being smaller than the other. Present 24/7 on the front. I guess they will have 5000-10 000 of them in few years.

5000-10000? I'm sorry, wtf are you smoking? The current production rate is 20 per year, it's not cheap, each drone costs a couple of million dollars, without the ground stations. Kronstadt has a limited production capacity, and it will be a good job for them to produce around 100 orions in 3 years. For anything above that they'd need to expand their production and build a new plant, which will take years, and even then 5000-10000 is a fucking pipe dream. Who's gonna service them? Who's gonna fly them? Where the fuck would Russia store 10000 orions?

They used to have thousands of fighters. There are no problem servicing so many drones. They even plan new drone airfields as you can see on the picture I posted above.

Russia is huge and they will need them at all their borders and for operation abroad (Syria, Africa, south america maybe, Cuba to look on US naval bases).

Production just started so it's limited. Once they speed up they will build 20-30 per month easily.

IMO their cost will fall to under 1 million. That's the price of one missile, even less.

They won't need to use 5000 drones but they will need reserve because they are easy targets.

Isos wrote:They used to have thousands of fighters. There are no problem servicing so many drones. They even plan new drone airfields as you can see on the picture I posted above.

Russia is huge and they will need them at all their borders and for operation abroad (Syria, Africa, south america maybe, Cuba to look on US naval bases).

Production just started so it's limited. Once they speed up they will build 20-30 per month easily.

IMO their cost will fall to under 1 million. That's the price of one missile, even less.

They won't need to use 5000 drones but they will need reserve because they are easy targets.

Yes, the picture of an airfield with a hangar for each drone. And a runaway. Can you imagine how many tens of billions of dollars it would take to make that for 10000 drones?

Production has started, but each drone is assembled by hand. And they already have their hands full.

So you are saying that it's cheaper than Kalibr?

I'm willing to make a bet about the number of Orions in service in a couple of years. Say a number that you think, 5000, 3000, and let's get back to it in a couple of years.

ult wrote:

Isos wrote:They used to have thousands of fighters. There are no problem servicing so many drones. They even plan new drone airfields as you can see on the picture I posted above.

Russia is huge and they will need them at all their borders and for operation abroad (Syria, Africa, south america maybe, Cuba to look on US naval bases).

Production just started so it's limited. Once they speed up they will build 20-30 per month easily.

IMO their cost will fall to under 1 million. That's the price of one missile, even less.

They won't need to use 5000 drones but they will need reserve because they are easy targets.

Yes, the picture of an airfield with a hangar for each drone. And a runaway. Can you imagine how many tens of billions of dollars it would take to make that for 10000 drones?

Production has started, but each drone is assembled by hand. And they already have their hands full.

So you are saying that it's cheaper than Kalibr?

I'm willing to make a bet about the number of Orions in service in a couple of years. Say a number that you think, 5000, 3000, and let's get back to it in a couple of years.

Drones can stay out in the open.

They make them by hand because they were prototypes until now. Production line will be set up with machinery to make them in serial.

Orion is the simpliest drone they could make to have it in great numbers. If you want better you need to switch for sirius or Altius or helios which are middle class drone. High end being S-70.

Maybe 10000 is too much optimistic I must admit but the goal is to have a lot of them everywhere.

0:48  drone-kamikaze

Isos wrote:
Drones can stay out in the open.

They make them by hand because they were prototypes until now. Production line will be set up with machinery to make them in serial.

Orion is the simpliest drone they could make to have it in great numbers. If you want better you need to switch for sirius or Altius or helios which are middle class drone. High end being S-70.

Maybe 10000 is too much optimistic I must admit but the goal is to have a lot of them everywhere.

US has produced 360 RQ-1's. Which is a full analogue to the Orion. MQ-9 is also in a couple hundreds.

ult wrote:

US has produced 360 RQ-1's. Which is a full analogue to the Orion. MQ-9 is also in a couple hundreds.

Drone use will increase. Number will also increase.

Orion has pretty slim range (250km)

They should really do something about it down the road

Datalink from ground can't go further. All the drones witout satellite link have this issue. You can solve this by using repeaters every hundred of km but it will still be limited to 250km inside enemy territory.

Sirius and helios have sat abtenna and will go further away.

It is a smaller analogue of the US model. They should have enough experience now to get a better version out.

PapaDragon wrote:

"Isos"

Orion has pretty slim range (250km)

They should really do something about it down the road

Datalink from ground can't go further. All the drones witout satellite link have this issue. You can solve this by using repeaters every hundred of km but it will still be limited to 250km inside enemy territory.

Sirius and helios have sat abtenna and will go further away.

Well there's an idea for upgrade, satellite link can't cost too much

The upgrade is Sirius/Helios.

Orion will keep being cheap to be used in low intensity conflict like in Syria where they don't need to use it more than 250km away from ground station and obove the frontline of conventional wars.

PapaDragon wrote:
Orion has pretty slim range (250km)

They should really do something about it down the road

Well the max speed is 200km/h and with a 24 hour endurance. I think their main design goal is to have a relatively small area (like a city) covered for surveillance (with the option to engage if necessary), with rotating shifts of drones and operators. They didn't make it's stats to crazy to keep the costs down for procurement. As having expensive UCAV's is a contradiction of it's purpose.

With that being said, SuperOx and their electric engines could greatly increase their range, like a 4 fold increase, and best thing is they'll be cheaper than standard engines (up to 10x).

https://www.russiadefence.net/t2824p575-ew-technologies-and-innovation-development-in-russia#267343

There was also an UAV project "Gonshchik" by MiG. Do we have any info on that?

kvs wrote:It is a smaller analogue of the US model.   They should have enough experience now to get a better version out.  

MQ-1 Predator is:
Length: 27 ft 0 in (8.23 m)
Wingspan: 48 ft 7 in (14.8 m)
Height: 6 ft 11 in (2.1 m)
Gross weight: 2,249 lb (1,020 kg)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-1_Predator

Orion is:
Length: 8 m
Wingspan: 16,3 m
Height: 3,2 m
Gross weight: 1000 kg

https://kronshtadt.ru/en/products/bespilotnyij-kompleks-orion

Very interesting about the Molniya:

Source: jet drones working in a flock are being created for the VKS

MOSCOW, 1 Mar-RIA Novosti. The multi-purpose unmanned complex "Molniya", whose jet vehicles will be launched by a swarm from a carrier aircraft, is being developed in the interests of:Air and space forces Russia, a source in the military-industrial complex told RIA Novosti.

"Company "Kronshtadthas initiatively prepared a draft design of the Molniya multi-purpose unmanned group-use complex. Drones of this system will be launched in a flock from a carrier aircraft, for example, to break through enemy air defenses or conduct group electronic warfare together with manned aircraft. It is also planned to use the devices of the complex as separate high-precision guided ammunition or target designator scouts, " the source said.
Development work on the project should begin in the near future, the source said.
The basis of the complex will be small unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) made in the form factor of a cruise missile-with an elongated fuselage, a jet engine and a folding wing. "The devices can be used from various carriers - combat and military transport aircraft of the aerospace forces, from external and internal suspensions, including from cargo bays. The su-57,in particular, will be able to carry up to eight such vehicles in the fuselage compartments. They can also be carried by a Hunter drone, " he explained.

According to the source, the Kronstadt company has determined the preliminary tactical and technical characteristics of the Molniya complex vehicles, " however, they can be adjusted within the framework of the ROC." "So far, it is planned that one device of the system will have a length of 1.5 meters and a wing span of up to 1.2 meters. The speed of the vehicle equipped with a turbojet engine is stated at 600-700 kilometers per hour, the estimated mass of the warhead or payload is about five to seven kilograms. The range of the drone will be several hundred kilometers, " he said.
The drones will use stealth technologies that reduce their radar and thermal visibility, including a special coating, a flat nozzle and an air intake located on the upper part of the fuselage.
The company "Kronshtadt" did not comment on the information provided by the source to RIA Novosti.
A mock-up of the device from the Molniya complex was demonstrated last Friday during a visit by the Minister of defenseSergei Shoigu plant of the company "Kronstadt".

Our answer to the Gremlins"
Denis Fedutinov, a leading Russian expert in the field of unmanned aircraft, told RIA Novosti that the Molniya system, which is focused on the concept of swarming, is in some way a Russian response to the American Gremlins program.
"This concept implies the simultaneous use of a group consisting of many unmanned vehicles with different target loads on Board – reconnaissance, shock, electronic warfare, etc. - each of which solves its own part of the overall task," the expert noted.
He explained that the greatest effectiveness of the actions of such a group will be provided by interaction between the drones that are part of it with automatic distribution of tasks in a rapidly changing environment, including reconfiguration when the composition changes due to the addition or removal of individual vehicles.
A radical increase in the number of UAVs in the group will allow, for example, to effectively combat enemy air defense systems by saturating the airspace with so many targets that exceed the capabilities of a one-time fight against them. "This, in turn, will save more valuable assets, such as manned aircraft, as well as advanced and expensive UAVs for other tasks," the expert believes.
In addition, the expert noted, the use of a swarm can become a cheap way to successfully perform many types of combat missions, including suppressing enemy artillery, counterterrorism operations, and so on. The viability of such an approach, according to Fedutinov, can be ensured by reducing the cost of individual UAVs that make up the group, which will make it possible to produce UAVs in thousands of units as expendable assets without too much burden of costs.

https://ria.ru/20210301/bespilotniki-1599368302.html

If the ukies think UAVs are going to be the solution to their problems, they are going to love Molniya