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2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

lyle6

lyle6: Posts : 2607
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Post n°451

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

lyle6 Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:38 pm

Armenian wrote:Pashinyan just called all people served in army in the last year. He stated that it's not about NKR anymore and there is a real danger of a new Armenian genocide.

He seems quite worried to me. I think Putin made some kind of deal with Erdoğan and decided to sacrifice Armenians. Not that it makes any sense but Russia is clearly not willing to do anything to help Armenia. Azerbaijan on the other hand is trying to create narrative that missiles are fired from Armenia.

The purpose is clear. Attacking Armenia.

Some people here might find this exaggerated but I think we are really on our own against Turks. Land inversion to Armenia is real possibility.

Not only Russia but the whole world is watching Armenians to be massacred again. In the 21st century.

Of course he'd be worried. You can trace the Russian reluctance to even offer diplomatic support to Armenia outside of calls for ceasefire to Pashinyan's internal and external policy decisions. Unless he can deliver the required mea culpas and display concrete steps to accommodate Russian interests in Armenia just as Lukashenko in Belarus did that badly needed Russian help is not forthcoming. Let's hope he makes the right call, or Armenia could find another leader who can do so.

Nevertheless, its simply inconceivable for the Russians not to help. A lot of Russian influence in their near abroad is resting on what actions they will take in this conflict. If they let a nominal ally of theirs get torn to pieces by much weaker powers that simply signals weakness and invites further provocations. No, teaching the Armenians a lesson would have to take a backseat.

kvs

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Post n°452

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

kvs Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:00 pm

miketheterrible wrote:Well, seeing as a huge portion of land Russia obtained are from countries/civilizations that don't really exist anymore, can't say it's a fair comparison.

But the fact it's land that under UN isn't recognized as Armenian and Russia agreed to that, kinda puts things into perspective for Armenians. No one will help them in that land but they themselves.

My only guess will be Russia providing Armenia with weapons like how Turkey does for Azerbaijan. That's about it

SS is just spreading his serial anti-Russian BS. America is built on stolen aboriginal land. In Russia indigenous ethnic groups were never herded into reservation
ghettos and robbed of their land. In fact, they have de facto republics such as Sakha. In principle, they can secede which none of the original peoples of
North America both in the USA and Canada can do. The US is leveraging this to try to partition Russia. Real wiseguys, mafia style.

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miketheterrible

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Post n°453

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

miketheterrible Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:03 pm

Thing is, these natives are rather a minority. Count ethnic Russians vs others and you will find, excluding the north caucuses areas, the rest are majority Russian.

Isos

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Post n°454

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

Isos Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:06 pm

In Russia indigenous ethnic groups were never herded into reservation
ghettos and robbed of their land.

In the US they don't even exist anymore. Hardly ebough of them to create a ghetto let alone ask for a country. Only Hawai could do so.

kvs

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Post n°455

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

kvs Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:08 pm

miketheterrible wrote:Thing is, these natives are rather a minority. Count ethnic Russians vs others and you will find, excluding the north caucuses areas, the rest are majority Russian.

They are minority thanks to European diseases and the fact that they were physically exterminated by the US army and all the irregulars settling down in the "wild frontier".
It is popular to demonize US aboriginals for taking scalps of poor little settlers, but the fact is that those settlers would kill aboriginals much like they would
kill coyotes and other unwanted animals.

The US signed many treaties with the indigenous peoples and then tore them all up. So there was plenty of ethnic cleansing and driving onto reservation ghettos.
Population density is not an argument since European squatters in the new world were a minority originally.

kvs

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Post n°456

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

kvs Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:12 pm

Isos wrote:

In Russia indigenous ethnic groups were never herded into reservation
ghettos and robbed of their land.

In the US they don't even exist anymore. Hardly ebough of them to create a ghetto let alone ask for a country. Only Hawai could do so.

That's just your worthless opinion. It is a post factum justification attempt for the genocide of aboriginal peoples.

Today aboriginals account for 1.6% of the total population of the USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States

In Montana over 9% are aboriginals.

BTW, black people account for 13.4% of the US population. I don't hear you or similar clowns dismiss them as of no importance.

Isos

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Post n°457

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

Isos Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:16 pm

kvs wrote:

Isos wrote:

In Russia indigenous ethnic groups were never herded into reservation
ghettos and robbed of their land.

In the US they don't even exist anymore. Hardly ebough of them to create a ghetto let alone ask for a country. Only Hawai could do so.

That's just your worthless opinion. It is a post factum justification attempt for the genocide of aboriginal peoples.

Today aboriginals account for 1.6% of the total population of the USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States

In Montana over 9% are aboriginals.

BTW, black people account for 13.4% of the US population. I don't hear you or similar clowns dismiss them as of no importance.

That's what I'm saying. They genocided all of them long time ago.

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°458

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

Tsavo Lion Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:17 pm

Azerbaijan asked not to let Armenians into Armenia
https://www.vesti.ru/article/2467381

https://eurasianet.org/perspectives-new-armenian-azerbaijani-war-forces-russia-to-make-tough-choices

Azeris Say Armenia Hits Outside Conflict Zone

		Fighting Escalates as Karabakh Envoy Declares 'Existential Fight'
		*Azerbaijan Says Fighting Won't End Until Armenia Agrees Withdrawal*
		UK Monitor: 64 Turkey-Backed Syrian Rebel Fighters Dead in Karabakh

Fighting Goes on as Azerbaijan, Armenia Reject Ceasefire
	Nagorno-Karabakh Says 18 of Its Civilians Killed in Week of Fighting
	Nagorno-Karabakh Says 51 More Servicemen Killed in Fighting With Azerbaijan
	In Nagorno-Karabakh, New Risks in an Old Ethnic Conflict
	Karabakh Cathedral Repurposed as Bomb Shelter

Global Reaction to NK Fight

	Armenia's Leader Makes Plea to US as Conflict Rages With Azerbaijan
	Iran Warns Armenia, Azerbaijan Against Border Intrusions
	Syrian Rebels Sign Up to Fight for Azeris to Feed Families
	Georgia Prohibits Transit of Military Cargo Amid Armenia, Azerbaijani Conflict
	Turkey's Presence in NATO Must Be Questioned: Francois Hollande Attends Pro-Armenian Rally
	'Pakistan Army Not Fighting Alongside Azerbaijani Troops Against Armenia'

https://armenianweekly.com/2020/07/23/we-build-they-destroy/

https://youtu.be/UxddltpX8ls?t=302

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W79hmgBNUHA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FE1BDGTv6Q

Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)

miketheterrible

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Post n°459

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

miketheterrible Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:20 pm

kvs wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:Thing is, these natives are rather a minority. Count ethnic Russians vs others and you will find, excluding the north caucuses areas, the rest are majority Russian.

They are minority thanks to European diseases and the fact that they were physically exterminated by the US army and all the irregulars settling down in the "wild frontier".
It is popular to demonize US aboriginals for taking scalps of poor little settlers, but the fact is that those settlers would kill aboriginals much like they would
kill coyotes and other unwanted animals.

The US signed many treaties with the indigenous peoples and then tore them all up. So there was plenty of ethnic cleansing and driving onto reservation ghettos.
Population density is not an argument since European squatters in the new world were a minority originally.

I'm talking about Russia's other regions. Not north america.

lyle6

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Post n°460

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

lyle6 Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:23 pm

https://twitter.com/ShStepanyan/status/1313164016580210688
Armenians employed that one weird trick. Azeris left seething and 200 men fewer in number.

Tai Hai Chen

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Post n°461

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

Tai Hai Chen Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:52 pm

Turkic war crimes knows no bound.

https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1313134737393938432

If I were Putin I'd be getting worried. Armenia is 1 of 10 allies Russia has left in the world. If Armenia falls, they will come for Russia next.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_68/262

Tai Hai Chen

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Post n°462

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

Tai Hai Chen Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:55 pm

Meanwhile, ANNA news arrived to NK from Syria. Hopefully we will see good footage soon.

https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1313173548178067456

flamming_python

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Post n°463

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

flamming_python Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:56 pm

Armenian wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Armenian wrote:

Isos wrote:Armenia never asked for russian help.

Nikol called Putin 3 times. Do you think he called to ask how is the weather is in Moscow?

Of course he asked for help and now we can guess the answer. The reason of not officially asking help is pure political to show the enemy that we have cards.

That is an occupied region, if Armenia is so worried about a genocide they can move people into Armenia.

Moscow has made it clear they will not help Armenia over land even they consider occupied.

By your logic Crimea is occupied as well? No, its people living in their historical lands and everybody here knows it.

Thinking that it's about Karabakh is extremely naive. It's about wiping out all Armenians from the region to create Turkic empire. We all know Erdoğan and we all know what he wants.

Wagner is already on their way to Armenia, if not already landed

ANNA News has already landed. That's a tell-tale sign

This afternoon there were meetings between a visiting Russian delegation and the former president of Armenia

So no, there will be no abandonment of Armenia, just because Pashinyan was courting the EU a bit, closing Russian language schools or what not. None of that actually matters next to strategic security interests (but for sure Russia will iron out a guarantee that this will be reversed).
All this defeatism is the same as when people were speculating that Russia will abandon Syria because OMFG gas, oil deals with Turkey, Turkey so much more important.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:Well, seeing as a huge portion of land Russia obtained are from countries/civilizations that don't really exist anymore, can't say it's a fair comparison.

But the fact it's land that under UN isn't recognized as Armenian and Russia agreed to that, kinda puts things into perspective for Armenians. No one will help them in that land but they themselves.

My only guess will be Russia providing Armenia with weapons like how Turkey does for Azerbaijan. That's about it

Japan exists, China exists, Germany exists etc, a lot of the areas I speak of the respective countries do exist.

So it's quite a fair comparison.

Why yes but that doesn't matter that Russia nor the UN see it has Azeri land, the standard is "Historical" it belongs to Armenia there-fore its Armenian land. So I assume for people going with that logic, they will apply the same logic to all is my point.

There are no more Germans in Kaliningrad, no more Ainu on south Sakhalin and the Kurils (the Japs took them all with them), and no more Manchu in the Vladivostok and Khabarovsk regions.

In regards to the first two these changes were the result of WW2, in the case of the later it was good old fashioned Russian imperialism but regardless the Manchu dynasty doesn't rule China anymore and in fact barely exist as a people nowadays.

Armenia is a tiny country that is about 1/5th of the size it once was and suffered a genocide a century ago, I don't think there's in the mood for being removed from yet another region where they've lived in for centuries if not longer.

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Tai Hai Chen

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Post n°464

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

Tai Hai Chen Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:04 pm

Armenian army advantage over Azeri army is counter battery radars. Whereas Azeri army lacks counter battery radar, Armenian army recently bought 4 counter battery radars from Armenian ally India. However, like the recently bought Su-30SM jets, they are not yet operational.

https://www.businesstoday.in/current/economy-politics/india-pips-russia-poland-to-secure--40-million-defence-deal-to-armenia/story/397235.html

SeigSoloyvov

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Post n°465

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

SeigSoloyvov Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:50 pm

kvs wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:Well, seeing as a huge portion of land Russia obtained are from countries/civilizations that don't really exist anymore, can't say it's a fair comparison.

But the fact it's land that under UN isn't recognized as Armenian and Russia agreed to that, kinda puts things into perspective for Armenians. No one will help them in that land but they themselves.

My only guess will be Russia providing Armenia with weapons like how Turkey does for Azerbaijan. That's about it

SS is just spreading his serial anti-Russian BS. America is built on stolen aboriginal land. In Russia indigenous ethnic groups were never herded into reservation
ghettos and robbed of their land. In fact, they have de facto republics such as Sakha. In principle, they can secede which none of the original peoples of
North America both in the USA and Canada can do. The US is leveraging this to try to partition Russia. Real wiseguys, mafia style.

Typical KVS completely ignores the point to go on some Anti-American rant.

My point was simple so very very simple a child can understand this.

If you are going to sit there and claim a country has rights to another countries land on the basis that land once was a part of them and therefore it belongs to the country then that same standard.

Applies to Russia has well, so if you are going to sit there and use that excuse, then the Russians should give the land they have that historical belongs to other nations. You will notice, I never said the Russians have to or should. I am simply pointing out the dumb ass standard some people here seem to be going with.

Also Russia would never ever allow any republic to secede from the Federation and people here would cry bloody murder here, if one ever wanted to.

Applying a standard one way and not both ways only makes you a hypocrite and shows you don't care about the rights of people if that will doesn't align to your personal views.

if having the same standard applying to all makes me Anti-Russian there is something wrong with your head.

Tai Hai Chen

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Post n°466

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

Tai Hai Chen Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:49 pm

Armenian ATGM hit Azeri tank

https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1313201247621648386

nero

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Post n°467

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

nero Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:58 pm

Russia's latest actions in Syria, Libya and Armenia are very lackluster and do not inspire good confidence in their ability to do much at all, except to form meaningless ceasefires that will be broken at the convenience of the enemy.

I understand that reality is often much more complicated than that, though for Turkey the reality is that the Russians have done exactly fuck all in these countries to deter Turkish aggression. The results of which we can see today in Armenia.

In addition to this, Turkey has sent over 15 convoys to Idlib in the last few days - with increased rebel activity it is quite likely that they are going to open up a new front here and attack the Syrian Arab Army, possibly to push them back from the M5 highway.

The clock is ticking and the opportunity for actual determent of Turkish aggression is going away. When they attack, it will be too late to start sending Il-76's/An-124's to Syria or Armenia. Past mistakes from Georgia and Yugoslavia will be repeated.

Putin has done well to bring the country back from the brink of economic collapse though he really needs to leave his position to someone younger and with more character.

Last edited by nero on Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Tai Hai Chen

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Post n°468

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

Tai Hai Chen Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:01 pm

Canada banned export of EO to Turkey used in TB2. From now on, each TB2 lost is a TB2 that can't be replaced.

https://www.reddit.com/r/armenia/comments/j5ozog/another_important_victory_thank_you_our_canadian/

In the meantime, Armenia can order Wing Loong 2 heavy attack drones from China. These were devastating in Libya used by Egypt and UAE against Turkey backed GNA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAIG_Wing_Loong_II

Last edited by Tai Hai Chen on Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

Tai Hai Chen

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Post n°469

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

Tai Hai Chen Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:12 pm

Georgia started banning Turkey's Syrian cannon fodders deliveries to Azerbaijan. Il-76 turned back over Georgia. Rumor has it it was carrying the third batch of Syrian cannon fodders numbering 470.

https://twitter.com/archer83able/status/1313208229715939328?s=21

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Tai Hai Chen

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Post n°470

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

Tai Hai Chen Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:18 pm

https://twitter.com/ShStepanyan/status/1313151760744288256

Armenian 2A36 howitzers in Karabakh

https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1313209584543248388

Last edited by Tai Hai Chen on Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

JohninMK

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Post n°471

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

JohninMK Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:34 pm

Tai Hai Chen wrote:Canada banned export of EO to Turkey used in TB2. From now on, each TB2 lost is a TB2 that can't be replaced.

2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1 - Page 19 EjlXq1UWoAENzkE?format=jpg&name=small

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JohninMK

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Post n°472

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

JohninMK Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:39 pm

Meanwhile, cutting out the middleman...............

Yörük Işık
@YorukIsik
·
9h
Top Russian VIP. (Not Lavrov. He is in Moscow) Russian Government Russian Presidential Fleet
IL96 300PU RA96019 climbs out of Yerevan Zvartnots and is fiying directly west, —likely to Ankara Esenboğa (?). Russian diplomacy in action.

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Armenian

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Post n°473

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

Armenian Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:50 pm

JohninMK wrote:

Tai Hai Chen wrote:Canada banned export of EO to Turkey used in TB2. From now on, each TB2 lost is a TB2 that can't be replaced.

That's a very big win. They don't have any other alternatives for Wescam.

+ Win for Russia as well. Will give some time to find an effective counter measure.

Last edited by Armenian on Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:05 pm; edited 2 times in total

Tsavo Lion

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Post n°474

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

Tsavo Lion Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:00 pm

I wonder if Russia has enough forces to impose a naval blockade &/ no-fly zone on Turkey.
Once Turkey gets access to the Caspian, she'll stick her nose more to C. Asia, involving Russia, Pakistan, India & China even more, as none of them states would want another player there.
It would also be better for Israel to stop supporting Azeris with arms- they r playing with fire.

Tai Hai Chen

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Post n°475

Re: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #1

Tai Hai Chen Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:02 pm

There you go. From now on Turkey can't make another TB2.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-suspends-arms-export-permits-to-turkey-amid-concerns-of-human-rights-abuses-1.5133566

https://www.jpost.com/international/canada-halts-drone-sales-to-turkey-after-claims-of-use-by-azerbaijan-644666

Last edited by Tai Hai Chen on Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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