Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+74
LMFS
hoom
calripson
Isos
PapaDragon
Mir
owais.usmani
lyle6
Dima
AMCXXL
limb
ChineseTiger
Dorfmeister
Scorpius
JeremySun
lancelot
ALAMO
bren_tann
Lurk83
franco
marcellogo
Backman
Singular_Transform
The_Observer
Kiko
Rasisuki Nebia
walle83
Sujoy
medo
x_54_u43
Tai Hai Chen
Begome
Cyberspec
AJ-47
Viktor
jhelb
TheArmenian
ultimatewarrior
The-thing-next-door
mnztr
littlerabbit
JohninMK
ATLASCUB
ult
PhSt
Gazputin
Admin
MiamiMachineShop
GarryB
Arrow
Rodion_Romanovic
SeigSoloyvov
Hole
william.boutros
marat
Tsavo Lion
flamming_python
kvs
xeno
Tingsay
magnumcromagnon
Austin
dino00
GunshipDemocracy
AlfaT8
kumbor
Labrador
miketheterrible
Big_Gazza
Nibiru
miroslav
verkhoturye51
Stealthflanker
George1
78 posters

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40573
    Points : 41075
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:47 am

    I'm of the understanding that Russia can't build them quick enough for their own ships let alone taking big foreign orders.

    Money talks... right now Russian engine companies are scrambling to make new engines they didn't have to make before because the Russian Navy traditionally ordered them from the Ukraine.

    Building up production capacity takes time and money, but obviously getting orders for engines for the Russian navy is something solid that most banks will give loans for to build and expand factories and order and buy materials and machines to build the engines.

    However get a large order from China for maybe three or four times more engines and you can build new factories to make these engines in serial production facilities so you can get bigger loan guarantees and increase production levels and speed to make more faster, which is good for the Russian Navy and the Chinese Navy, but not so good for Motor Sich which might not be able to expand production in that way... because these Chinese orders are likely all they have with no domestic engines needed and certainly no orders from the Russian navy either.
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18526
    Points : 19031
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  George1 Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:59 pm

    Turbines and gearboxes loaded onto frigate "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Isakov"

    At Severnaya Verf, turbines and gearboxes of a diesel-gas turbine unit (DGTA) were loaded onto the third serial frigate of project 22350 “Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Isakov”. DGTA M55R, developed by the United Engine Corporation (UEC). According to the press service of PJSC Severnaya Verf Shipyard, this is the second fully domestic unit created at Russian facilities within the framework of the import substitution program. Both the port and starboard turbines, together with gearboxes, are immersed in the aft engine room of the ship through special technological cutouts. After alignment of gearboxes, main diesel engines and turbines, shipbuilders will be engaged in alignment and installation of the shaft line. This work will take about six months.

    https://dambiev.livejournal.com/2394117.html

    GarryB, dino00, Big_Gazza, Maximmmm, LMFS and Mir like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 11130
    Points : 11108
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  Hole Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:40 am

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 22350_14
    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 22350_15
    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 22350_16

    GarryB, franco, medo, dino00, Big_Gazza, zardof, littlerabbit and like this post

    avatar
    owais.usmani


    Posts : 1829
    Points : 1825
    Join date : 2019-03-27
    Age : 38

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  owais.usmani Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:01 pm

    GarryB, Big_Gazza and littlerabbit like this post

    littlerabbit
    littlerabbit


    Posts : 237
    Points : 237
    Join date : 2017-07-03
    Location : Serbia

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  littlerabbit Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:28 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:


    Which fleet will get Admiral Isakov, BSF? dunno
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3836
    Points : 3834
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  Mir Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:33 pm

    littlerabbit wrote:

    Which fleet will get Admiral Isakov, BSF? dunno

    I think initially they will all go to either the Northern or Pacific Fleet.

    George1 likes this post

    lancelot
    lancelot


    Posts : 3183
    Points : 3179
    Join date : 2020-10-18

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  lancelot Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:56 am

    kvs wrote:
    limb wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    GarryB wrote:That is OK... the Russians are making them better... perhaps they can undercut the Ukrainians and sell them to China too.
    At the very least the Ukrainians will get less money for the engines they sells and in the best case they lose that business too... or they end up making them at a loss and collapse that industry too.
    Nothing personal... just business.

    Banderites are begging to lose the China market.   What they pulled with Motor Sich has ticked off China in a major way.

    How do you know?

    Type 52d and type 56  engines are still being ordered exclusively from motor sich with no sign of stopping.
    Prove it with citations.
    https://chinaobservers.eu/why-ukraine-is-reassessing-its-defense-cooperation-with-china/
    "Critical technology being laundered to Russia" via China.
    Fcuking hilarious drivel.   Absolutely zero Ukr "technology" is of interest to Russia.

    Type 052D and 055 engines are QC280 engines manufactured in China. Supposedly based on Ukrainian UGT-25000 gas turbine engine design but all manufactured in China.
    The Chinese have moved to their own naval engine production a long time ago.
    The Type 056 corvettes don't even use gas turbines. They use marine diesels licensed from SEMT Pielstick.

    Where the Chinese might be losing out with closed access to the Ukrainian market is with regards to helicopter engines and trainer aircraft engines.
    Not naval engines.

    The Chinese are presently massively expanding their helicopter fleet but most of this is supposed to use their own "home grown" engines. The limited amount of helicopters of Soviet make they have, mostly for the Tibetan plateau and other high altitude environments, can likely be serviced elsewhere. But it will sure be annoying to them.
    The-thing-next-door
    The-thing-next-door


    Posts : 1394
    Points : 1450
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Uranus

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:49 pm

    Hole wrote:Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 22350_14
    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 22350_15
    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 22350_16

    Why does the metal of the casings appear warped?
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 11130
    Points : 11108
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  Hole Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:10 pm

    Because it´s a warp drive. Laughing Laughing Laughing

    zepia, LMFS and Mir like this post

    lyle6
    lyle6


    Posts : 2605
    Points : 2599
    Join date : 2020-09-14
    Location : Philippines

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  lyle6 Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:49 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    Why does the metal of the casings appear warped?
    Shrinkage due to cold temps. It'll be fine once the warship sees a beautiful woman though. Razz
    avatar
    hoom


    Posts : 2352
    Points : 2340
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  hoom Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:27 am

    The-thing-next-door wrote:Why does the metal of the casings appear warped?
    Thats just thin cover plates, possibly/probably hand-made.
    The structural bits are thicker & fair eg where the bits on the side are attached is a proper flat surface.
    avatar
    ult


    Posts : 837
    Points : 877
    Join date : 2015-02-20

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  ult Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:05 pm

    In a new video from Amur shipyard, they talk about potentially signing a contract for "up to 6 frigates" sometime next year, but in order to get it they need to modernize their facilities.

    medo, George1, dino00, Big_Gazza, Azi, LMFS and Hole like this post

    avatar
    owais.usmani


    Posts : 1829
    Points : 1825
    Join date : 2019-03-27
    Age : 38

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  owais.usmani Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:59 pm

    dino00, Hole and Mir like this post

    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3836
    Points : 3834
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  Mir Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:13 pm

    Russia is now rapidly moving towards establishing parallel shipbuilding for the Pacific fleet - long overdue - but great news indeed!
    They now need to re-establish nuclear sub production as well as diesel subs back to where it belongs.

    Big_Gazza and Broski like this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13479
    Points : 13519
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  PapaDragon Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:50 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:

    I want this to happen so bad it's boner inducing...


    Rasisuki Nebia likes this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11603
    Points : 11571
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  Isos Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:35 pm

    George1, Arrow, dino00 and zardof like this post

    avatar
    calripson


    Posts : 753
    Points : 808
    Join date : 2013-10-26

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Amur Shipyard

    Post  calripson Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:03 pm

    Amur shipyard 15 years ago was almost a write-off. To get them back on their feet is very impressive. Very good source of jobs for the region.

    lancelot likes this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 15666
    Points : 15807
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  JohninMK Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:19 pm

    calripson wrote:Amur shipyard 15 years ago was almost a write-off. To get them back on their feet is very impressive. Very good source of jobs for the region.

    A lot of Dutch HGG 3D profiling gear now in that factory.
    avatar
    hoom


    Posts : 2352
    Points : 2340
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  hoom Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:20 pm

    Can a 22350 size ship actually get down-river from Amur?
    They barge-ship the 20380s down-river & I don't think a 22350 would fit in that thing.

    Don't get me wrong though I'm all for things that would improve the rate of production like multi-yard construction.
    LMFS
    LMFS


    Posts : 5169
    Points : 5165
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  LMFS Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:22 pm

    So we may say that:

    > the orders for Amur shipyard on top of the ones for Severnaya total 16 units, or at least 8 per oceanic fleet. Maybe even more come in the future, but those are numbers already in line with the expected amount of at least 18 units for the class. It is not clear to me that other fleets need such ships
    > apparently, the 22350M will not mean the end of the 22350, but just a further vessel type with probably greater range and more capable for the blue water missions the VMF wants to be ready to tackle in the future.

    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3836
    Points : 3834
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  Mir Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:39 am

    hoom wrote:Can a 22350 size ship actually get down-river from Amur?
    They barge-ship the 20380s down-river & I don't think a 22350 would fit in that thing.

    Don't get me wrong though I'm all for things that would improve the rate of production like multi-yard construction.

    I have no idea how deep or shallow the river is but they had no problem with the much larger nuclear submarines.

    owais.usmani likes this post

    Krepost
    Krepost


    Posts : 786
    Points : 788
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  Krepost Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:53 pm

    There is no contract signed.
    So, don't get too excited about building frigates at Amur Shipyard yet.
    I could be just a way to pressure Severnaya Werf to get its act together.
    avatar
    Arrow


    Posts : 3503
    Points : 3493
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  Arrow Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:52 pm

    Severnaya Werf will be building destroyers 22350M in the future, so if they want to continue the 22350 frigate program, they can move it to the Amur Shipyard. They built bigger units there, so it won't be a problem.

    LMFS likes this post

    lancelot
    lancelot


    Posts : 3183
    Points : 3179
    Join date : 2020-10-18

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  lancelot Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:33 am

    Once the icebreaker construction ends and the new facilities are operational they will have more than enough room to build the 22350M in St. Petersburg I think.
    They should have enough capacity to build both 22350 and 22350M.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13479
    Points : 13519
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:00 am

    Krepost wrote:There is no contract signed.
    So, don't get too excited about building frigates at Amur Shipyard yet.
    I could be just a way to pressure Severnaya Werf to get its act together.

    Why bother with trying to pressure incompetent shipyard to get it's act together when you can just take contracts from them and give them to a shipyard with increasingly impressive track record?

    Or should we wait for some long delayed Gorshkov frigate to get torched as well?


    Sponsored content


    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 37 Empty Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Nov 24, 2024 1:21 pm