Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

Interesting that the US Airforce just announced plans to retire F-22s starting in 2030 - much earlier than anticipated. That coupled with dusting off the 1970s era F-15 design as the next "new" fighter speaks volumes. What it says to me is the U.S. Airforce thinks technological developments render existing stealth technologies less important. Photonic radar perhaps??

I dont think so, photonic radars are not going to completely replace radio electronic ones over night.

I think that the F-22 is retired simply Because it was good against an unexisting threat, which is post cold war su-27, but now it is not suitable for modern requirments.

The electronics suite is inherently difficult to refresh, and the costs of maintaining it are too high.
The flight performance except for the superb supercruising speed do not really feel like a generational leap.
It is too expensive to be a workhorse like the F-15 but not advanced enough to justify the price, it's in the middle of two niches.
Better invest money into something more substatial.

I don't think the F-22 is in the league of the Su-57, especially with the massive upgrades coming up soon enough and given the much more comfy situation that sukhoi is in.

Much we are not being told. Agreed the early retirement of f22 says a lot. It seems the f22 though an incredible craft cannot be easily updated and there are so few which makes the situation worse. Also as you are saying it seems near peers are giving us a run for our money. Note that the bit we are hearing about NGAD and upgrades to f35 focus on longer legs and better kinematics. Also focus on greater power as well. We are in a crisis the likes of which has never been seen before and we are waking up to it far too late in the game. I am afraid for my country. It wouldn't even be the current situation that scares me as much as what it all implies. We are arrogant, blind, full of hubris and yet we are so sure of our moral and technological superiority. This spells doom for any great civilization.

In my opinion, i think the F-22 is superb, if we forget about the costs.
But in practice it does not fill any niche very clearly. So it would be reasonable to think about something else.

Ducts.

What it says to me is the U.S. Airforce thinks technological developments render existing stealth technologies less important. Photonic radar perhaps??

I would say Russian IADS is what is rendering stealth technologies less important... stealth really is governed by the law of diminished returns... the first reductions are huge and easy but then they cost more and more and get less and less effect, which means they get really expensive and less effective...

Regarding controlling aircraft with your eyes, I remember hearing about a system developed in the west... they decided that in a high g combat situation where your aircraft might be damaged and the pilot might be injured that being unable to eject could be a serious problem so a system that followed the pilots eyes so that if he looked at a specific part of the cockpit he would be ejected. There was nothing in that particular part of the cockpit so the only reason to look there would be to eject when you are incapable of manually ejecting, but the problem was curiousity... after several hours of flight pilots got more and more tempted to look at the part of the cockpit to eject them, so it was never used because on the simulator every long endurance flight the pilots always looked and were "ejected" from the plane simulation they couldn't help themselves... human nature I guess.

I dont think so, photonic radars are not going to completely replace radio electronic ones over night.

Even S-300 is dangerous to F-22 and F-35, and S-400 is an even bigger threat, not to mention the Su-35 is equipped to hunt them too with IRST and L band AESA radar... and the stealth features make them expensive to buy and expensive to own... if you are still carrying stand off munitions to attack targets then the F-15 could fly further and faster and cheaper and are a lot less fragile.

I think that the F-22 is retired simply Because it was good against an unexisting threat, which is post cold war su-27, but now it is not suitable for modern requirments.

It was designed to destroy third world countries but was not prepared for new Soviet SAMs and radars.

I am afraid for my country.

I am not. And neither should you. There is no horde waiting to invade you like HATO on Russian borders, there is no super power trying to regime change your government despite your attempts to do the same to any and all rivals.

Even if by 2030 you are flying F-15s and upgraded F-16s, there will be no invasion of the US, the US will not be bombed... the only difference is that you will struggle to bully some small countries you previously could break quite easily, but that was not good for you and certainly was not appreciated by them.

We are arrogant, blind, full of hubris and yet we are so sure of our moral and technological superiority. This spells doom for any great civilization.

You are not beyond hope... you just need to man up and admit you have been a real and have been very selfish. You could start emulating Russia... hire Putin as a consultant to make changes in your morals and ethics and most importantly actions. Treat other countries with respect instead of contempt, so other countries as people and neighbours rather than locations with resources you need and people in your way stopping you from seizing them.

I said not beyond hope but it wont be easy... you might need to eat the rich... anyone with a billion dollars is not human... seize their money they must have broken some laws somewhere...

In my opinion, i think the F-22 is superb, if we forget about the costs.

It is a stealthy F-15 which is just a MiG-25. The YF-23 that was the innovative design, but the concept was totally flawed.... they went hard out stealth, but radar and thermal optics have plenty of growth potential yet to make any stealth achievement a waste of money.

F-22 looks very good on paper, but it has always been suspicious for the lack of sales

The cost cutting like lack of IR and optical sensors of the sort they had on F-14s suggested there were probably a lot of problems under the skin... it was an imperial aircraft that would fly high over a third world country and swat enemy aircraft as they took off, but relied on the fact that the enemy didn't have any decent modern SAMs.

It has lost all its advantages of Stealth but remains expensive to buy and use... white elephant.

These pics keep getting shitposted on /k/ more than the rivet pic.


This seems serious, and I doubt they would be so incompetent as to make unequal bomb bay door seals.

The second one is more perplexing. Is it a manufacturing defect?



Using google image search The first pic seems to have been first posted have appeared in 2019-2020 at some kind of chinese defence blog that has a purpose of bashing russian hardware.

1) No, that is not how it works.
They can perfectly close the bays, it is not difficult to do. And they can perfectly make them even because we are in the age of computer aided design. You literally are inputing the same width into the computer. It physically cannot get wider Even the early prototypes had perfectly enclosed weapon bay sceals.


But when a prototype is used to test things unrelated to stealth, the refinment for that prototype in question is not needed and is just a useless burden. Just like the small vents that were round in the prototypes and triangular in the production Variants.

2) No ,they can perfectly make canopies with no bubbles


And even if that sample in question had bubbles, refer to above.

3) 4chan is not the place to discuss russian airplanes just like karen Facebook groups are not the place to discuss vaccine efficiency.

The F-22 is extremely bad, it doesn't even have paint

PapaDragon wrote:
Two seat version of Su-57 will be created in order to control swarms of Okhotniks

https://vz.ru/news/2021/7/27/1110946.html?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop

Su-60SM in the pipeline, now waiting for Su-64

Su-64 would be redundant, the S-70 with its 6000km range will fill the strike role, there's also the Mach 4.1 MiG-41 and PAK-DA.

limb wrote:These pics keep getting shitposted on /k/ more than the rivet pic.

This seems serious, and I doubt they would be so incompetent as to make unequal bomb bay door seals.

The second one is more perplexing. Is it a manufacturing defect?



Using google image search The first pic seems to have been first posted have appeared in 2019-2020 at some kind of chinese defence blog that has a purpose of bashing russian hardware.

No its not a f*cking defect. Maybe the jet needs hydraulic pressure to seal everything up. Maybe that's the static prototype. Maybe that was one aircraft that was need the bay door worked on. We don't f*cking know. All we know is that retards that draw red lines or circles on pictures to critique fighter aircraft are pathetic.  

Look at the F-22 prototype. Ah, perfect seams right ? Could probably slide a small finger in the seam on the side weapons bay.

@Broski

Don't think unmanned platforms will replace manned aircraft for a long time. At least not until AI develops sufficiently.

They've already hinted that Su-57 based aircraft will eventually replace all existing 4th gen aircraft when an official said that the Su-57 platform is planned to be built in the hundreds

kvs wrote:We have plenty of video and stills of the Su-57 underside in flight.  Where is there any evidence of such gaps?   Reposting this
rubbish on this forum amounts to trolling.  

Yup. Every once and awhile, someone posts what the children are talking about. It doesn't happen as often as it used to at least.

The bubbles on the canopy .. I just can't even. Pure trolling.

Backman wrote:

limb wrote:These pics keep getting shitposted on /k/ more than the rivet pic.

This seems serious, and I doubt they would be so incompetent as to make unequal bomb bay door seals.

The second one is more perplexing. Is it a manufacturing defect?



Using google image search The first pic seems to have been first posted have appeared in 2019-2020 at some kind of chinese defence blog that has a purpose of bashing russian hardware.

No its not a f*cking defect. Maybe the jet needs hydraulic pressure to seal everything up. Maybe that's the static prototype. Maybe that was one aircraft that was need the bay door worked on. We don't f*cking know. All we know is that retards that draw red lines or circles on pictures to critique fighter aircraft are pathetic.  

Look at the F-22 prototype. Ah, perfect seams right ? Could probably slide a small finger in the seam on the side weapons bay.

The "gap" on the bays is simply one door on the bay being toed in in order to close properly and securely, mainly due to the fact that this bay needs to be capable of releasing massive munitions at supersonic speeds, it has very high structural strength requirements.

Sup guys I'm new to this forum.

I do have sth to share regarding the canopy. That pic is from an old prototype (T-50-1 or 2 with an old canopy (which btw was replaced from the 3rd T-50).

The bubbles here are most likely due to the way it's produced. It has 2 layers of silicate glass (18mm thick in front and 16mm at the back (pilot facing)) and a layer of polyurethane in between, so you can imagine the manufacturing process of this canopy is kinda hell, especially with the polyurethane and the curvature of the canopy, which causes bubbles inside the polyurethane layer.

Anyway, it's simple physics that when the Su-57 flies up high, pressure drops and so the volume of the bubbles in the polyurethane layer expands, which explains why it's visible only when the plane flies and not on the ground. Its really hard (impossible) to prevent those bubbles in the first place, but they by no means will affect the pilot's safety and the canopy's hardness. I mean, the canopies were 600kmh-chicken-tested alr anyway.

What's worth noting though, is the fact that Sukhoi has changed the canopy design to a monolithic polycarbonate glass one, which has lower thickness yet better strengths and lower weight.

Production of Su-57

Call the FSB! It seems there is a chinese spy in your last pic!