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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

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    calripson


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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 35 Empty Su-57 Main Competitor

    Post  calripson Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:17 pm

    Interesting that the US Airforce just announced plans to retire F-22s starting in 2030 - much earlier than anticipated. That coupled with dusting off the 1970s era F-15 design as the next "new" fighter speaks volumes. What it says to me is the U.S. Airforce thinks technological developments render existing stealth technologies less important. Photonic radar perhaps??

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    Post  Atmosphere Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:42 pm

    I dont think so, photonic radars are not going to completely replace radio electronic ones over night.

    I think that the F-22 is retired simply Because it was good against an unexisting threat, which is post cold war su-27, but now it is not suitable for modern requirments.

    The electronics suite is inherently difficult to refresh, and the costs of maintaining it are too high.
    The flight performance except for the superb supercruising speed do not really feel like a generational leap.
    It is too expensive to be a workhorse like the F-15 but not advanced enough to justify the price, it's in the middle of two niches.
    Better invest money into something more substatial.

    I don't think the F-22 is in the league of the Su-57, especially with the massive upgrades coming up soon enough and given the much more comfy situation that sukhoi is in.

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    Post  LMFS Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:43 pm

    calripson wrote:Interesting that the US Airforce just announced plans to retire F-22s starting in 2030 - much earlier than anticipated. That coupled with dusting off the 1970s era F-15 design as the next "new" fighter speaks volumes. What it says to me is the U.S. Airforce thinks technological developments render existing stealth technologies less important. Photonic radar perhaps??

    Their 5G is an expensive experiment, flawed by unreasonable requirements and strategic decisions, and motivated by a corrupt MIC, even if stealth will keep being used by pretty much every manufacturer in the world. They have a huge red alarm ringing at the USAF right now with their force planing, and the ludicrous series of statements we have been hearing for a while are the conclusive evidence. They need to clean the house and get something that is capable asap, so watch for their stunts, they are very fun Laughing

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    Post  TMA1 Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:54 pm

    Much we are not being told. Agreed the early retirement of f22 says a lot. It seems the f22 though an incredible craft cannot be easily updated and there are so few which makes the situation worse. Also as you are saying it seems near peers are giving us a run for our money. Note that the bit we are hearing about NGAD and upgrades to f35 focus on longer legs and better kinematics. Also focus on greater power as well. We are in a crisis the likes of which has never been seen before and we are waking up to it far too late in the game. I am afraid for my country. It wouldn't even be the current situation that scares me as much as what it all implies. We are arrogant, blind, full of hubris and yet we are so sure of our moral and technological superiority. This spells doom for any great civilization.

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    Post  Atmosphere Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:03 am

    In my opinion, i think the F-22 is superb, if we forget about the costs.
    But in practice it does not fill any niche very clearly. So it would be reasonable to think about something else.

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    Post  Atmosphere Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:05 am

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 35 Craft_10

    Ducts.

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    Post  LMFS Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:18 am

    F-22 looks very good on paper, but it has always been suspicious for the lack of sales, early stopping of the production, little to no actual use, terrible flight costs, small range, reduced payload etc. Now with new competitors like Su-57 it is simply obsolete. And US, instead of being reasonable and restarting production / making a midlife update, or a C version, decides to scrap it. They think the next scam will solve everything. But still I have the suspicion that the "first iteration" of the NGAD is going to be more a refreshment of the F-22 than a disruptive 6G plane. They are just trying to save face first and foremost as always.

    As to being concerned for US, they are under no military threat by anyone. If they are civil there is nothing to be concerned about, apart from the aching egos of some people...

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    Post  GarryB Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:56 am

    What it says to me is the U.S. Airforce thinks technological developments render existing stealth technologies less important. Photonic radar perhaps??

    I would say Russian IADS is what is rendering stealth technologies less important... stealth really is governed by the law of diminished returns... the first reductions are huge and easy but then they cost more and more and get less and less effect, which means they get really expensive and less effective...

    Regarding controlling aircraft with your eyes, I remember hearing about a system developed in the west... they decided that in a high g combat situation where your aircraft might be damaged and the pilot might be injured that being unable to eject could be a serious problem so a system that followed the pilots eyes so that if he looked at a specific part of the cockpit he would be ejected. There was nothing in that particular part of the cockpit so the only reason to look there would be to eject when you are incapable of manually ejecting, but the problem was curiousity... after several hours of flight pilots got more and more tempted to look at the part of the cockpit to eject them, so it was never used because on the simulator every long endurance flight the pilots always looked and were "ejected" from the plane simulation they couldn't help themselves... human nature I guess.

    I dont think so, photonic radars are not going to completely replace radio electronic ones over night.

    Even S-300 is dangerous to F-22 and F-35, and S-400 is an even bigger threat, not to mention the Su-35 is equipped to hunt them too with IRST and L band AESA radar... and the stealth features make them expensive to buy and expensive to own... if you are still carrying stand off munitions to attack targets then the F-15 could fly further and faster and cheaper and are a lot less fragile.

    I think that the F-22 is retired simply Because it was good against an unexisting threat, which is post cold war su-27, but now it is not suitable for modern requirments.

    It was designed to destroy third world countries but was not prepared for new Soviet SAMs and radars.

    I am afraid for my country.

    I am not. And neither should you. There is no horde waiting to invade you like HATO on Russian borders, there is no super power trying to regime change your government despite your attempts to do the same to any and all rivals.

    Even if by 2030 you are flying F-15s and upgraded F-16s, there will be no invasion of the US, the US will not be bombed... the only difference is that you will struggle to bully some small countries you previously could break quite easily, but that was not good for you and certainly was not appreciated by them.

    We are arrogant, blind, full of hubris and yet we are so sure of our moral and technological superiority. This spells doom for any great civilization.

    You are not beyond hope... you just need to man up and admit you have been a real censored and have been very selfish. You could start emulating Russia... hire Putin as a consultant to make changes in your morals and ethics and most importantly actions. Treat other countries with respect instead of contempt, so other countries as people and neighbours rather than locations with resources you need and people in your way stopping you from seizing them.

    I said not beyond hope but it wont be easy... you might need to eat the rich... anyone with a billion dollars is not human... seize their money they must have broken some laws somewhere...

    In my opinion, i think the F-22 is superb, if we forget about the costs.

    It is a stealthy F-15 which is just a MiG-25. The YF-23 that was the innovative design, but the concept was totally flawed.... they went hard out stealth, but radar and thermal optics have plenty of growth potential yet to make any stealth achievement a waste of money.

    F-22 looks very good on paper, but it has always been suspicious for the lack of sales

    The cost cutting like lack of IR and optical sensors of the sort they had on F-14s suggested there were probably a lot of problems under the skin... it was an imperial aircraft that would fly high over a third world country and swat enemy aircraft as they took off, but relied on the fact that the enemy didn't have any decent modern SAMs.

    It has lost all its advantages of Stealth but remains expensive to buy and use... white elephant.

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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 35 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  limb Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:04 pm

    These pics keep getting shitposted on /k/ more than the rivet pic.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 35 16275710
    This seems serious, and I doubt they would be so incompetent as to make unequal bomb bay door seals.

    The second one is more perplexing. Is it a manufacturing defect?

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 35 16275711

    Using google image search The first pic seems to have been first posted have appeared in 2019-2020 at some kind of chinese defence blog that has a purpose of bashing russian hardware.
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    Post  Atmosphere Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:27 pm

    1) No, that is not how it works.
    They can perfectly close the bays, it is not difficult to do. And they can perfectly make them even because we are in the age of computer aided design. You literally are inputing the same width into the computer. It physically cannot get wider Even the early prototypes had perfectly enclosed weapon bay sceals.
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 35 Wzd_210

    But when a prototype is used to test things unrelated to stealth, the refinment for that prototype in question is not needed and is just a useless burden. Just like the small vents that were round in the prototypes and triangular in the production Variants.

    2) No ,they can perfectly make canopies with no bubbles
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 35 10324110

    And even if that sample in question had bubbles, refer to above.

    3) 4chan is not the place to discuss russian airplanes just like karen Facebook groups are not the place to discuss vaccine efficiency.

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    Post  Atmosphere Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:34 pm

    The F-22 is extremely bad, it doesn't even have paintSu-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 35 Images13

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    Post  LMFS Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:The cost cutting like lack of IR and optical sensors of the sort they had on F-14s suggested there were probably a lot of problems under the skin... it was an imperial aircraft that would fly high over a third world country and swat enemy aircraft as they took off, but relied on the fact that the enemy didn't have any decent modern SAMs.

    It has lost all its advantages of Stealth but remains expensive to buy and use... white elephant.

    Pretty much. They neglected it out of a mix of fear to threaten F-35, because it was a Tiffany's type of weapon and because they dismissed the Chinese and the Russians. Now it is surpassed as an airframe and they rightfully fear the money invested on it will not produce an aircraft capable of ensuring superiority. But NGAD will also not provide that, and they will waste even more money instead of doing the reasonable thing and simply upgrade the F-22, that would be already enough as a deterrent, which is obviously not enough for their thirst of superiority. As an immediate reaction I can foresee a F-22 with enlarged fuselage, 2x F135 and more fuel, bigger weapon bays. Pretty much obvious way of getting out of the way, since it would be little more than upscaling an existing plane, and with adaptive engines on the way that should be even competitive and offer some edge over the Russian and Chinese designs, given the bigger size. Then the problems to make that thing cheap and operational will appear, but by then more money will already be in the pockets of the relevant people Cool
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:07 pm


    F-22 is great plane

    What kept it from being amazing plane is minuscule weapon's bay which ate it's utility and insane price but this could have been mitigated if they didn't shit the bed with F-35 clusterfuck

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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:34 am


    Two seat version of Su-57 will be created in order to control swarms of Okhotniks

    https://vz.ru/news/2021/7/27/1110946.html?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop

    Su-60SM in the pipeline, now waiting for Su-64 thumbsup

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    Post  Broski Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:07 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Two seat version of Su-57 will be created in order to control swarms of Okhotniks

    https://vz.ru/news/2021/7/27/1110946.html?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop

    Su-60SM in the pipeline, now waiting for Su-64 thumbsup

    Su-64 would be redundant, the S-70 with its 6000km range will fill the strike role, there's also the Mach 4.1 MiG-41 and PAK-DA.
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    Post  Backman Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:06 am

    limb wrote:These pics keep getting shitposted on /k/ more than the rivet pic.

    This seems serious, and I doubt they would be so incompetent as to make unequal bomb bay door seals.

    The second one is more perplexing. Is it a manufacturing defect?



    Using google image search The first pic seems to have been first posted have appeared in 2019-2020 at some kind of chinese defence blog that has a purpose of bashing russian hardware.

    No its not a f*cking defect. Maybe the jet needs hydraulic pressure to seal everything up. Maybe that's the static prototype. Maybe that was one aircraft that was need the bay door worked on. We don't f*cking know. All we know is that retards that draw red lines or circles on pictures to critique fighter aircraft are pathetic.  

    Look at the F-22 prototype. Ah, perfect seams right ? Could probably slide a small finger in the seam on the side weapons bay.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 35 F22proto_by_backspin321_deo8n9f-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NTc0IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvNjczMmY2M2YtZDU0Zi00Nzg5LWI0ZWEtZGU0ZTIxMzMyZDk2XC9kZW84bjlmLTIzNGJmNWY0LWM4NjYtNDM0OC05M2I3LTZhNjU4NzQyMjE1Yy5wbmciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTI4MCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:09 am

    @Broski

    Don't think unmanned platforms will replace manned aircraft for a long time. At least not until AI develops sufficiently.

    They've already hinted that Su-57 based aircraft will eventually replace all existing 4th gen aircraft when an official said that the Su-57 platform is planned to be built in the hundreds
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    Post  kvs Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:10 am

    We have plenty of video and stills of the Su-57 underside in flight. Where is there any evidence of such gaps? Reposting this
    rubbish on this forum amounts to trolling.

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    Post  kvs Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:14 am

    Cyberspec wrote:@Broski

    Don't think unmanned platforms will replace manned aircraft for a long time. At least not until AI develops sufficiently.

    They've already hinted that Su-57 based aircraft will eventually replace all existing 4th gen aircraft when an official said that the Su-57 platform is planned to be built in the hundreds

    AI is an abused term, but what Russia has now in terms of "AI" is nothing to sneeze at. While the Americans are still manually
    controlling their drones with two operators, Russia is planning to export a drone cheaper than the Byraktar that is basically flying itself with
    a single operator performing higher level tasks. The discussion about having the Su-57 combined with drones is not posturing BS
    but indicates that the automation level has reached the critical stage where such a configuration becomes practical.

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    Post  Backman Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:42 am

    kvs wrote:We have plenty of video and stills of the Su-57 underside in flight.  Where is there any evidence of such gaps?   Reposting this
    rubbish on this forum amounts to trolling.
     

    Yup. Every once and awhile, someone posts what the children are talking about. It doesn't happen as often as it used to at least.

    The bubbles on the canopy .. I just can't even. No Pure trolling.

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    Post  x_54_u43 Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:48 am

    Backman wrote:
    limb wrote:These pics keep getting shitposted on /k/ more than the rivet pic.

    This seems serious, and I doubt they would be so incompetent as to make unequal bomb bay door seals.

    The second one is more perplexing. Is it a manufacturing defect?



    Using google image search The first pic seems to have been first posted have appeared in 2019-2020 at some kind of chinese defence blog that has a purpose of bashing russian hardware.

    No its not a f*cking defect. Maybe the jet needs hydraulic pressure to seal everything up. Maybe that's the static prototype. Maybe that was one aircraft that was need the bay door worked on. We don't f*cking know. All we know is that retards that draw red lines or circles on pictures to critique fighter aircraft are pathetic.  

    Look at the F-22 prototype. Ah, perfect seams right ? Could probably slide a small finger in the seam on the side weapons bay.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 35 F22proto_by_backspin321_deo8n9f-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NTc0IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvNjczMmY2M2YtZDU0Zi00Nzg5LWI0ZWEtZGU0ZTIxMzMyZDk2XC9kZW84bjlmLTIzNGJmNWY0LWM4NjYtNDM0OC05M2I3LTZhNjU4NzQyMjE1Yy5wbmciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTI4MCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19

    The "gap" on the bays is simply one door on the bay being toed in in order to close properly and securely, mainly due to the fact that this bay needs to be capable of releasing massive munitions at supersonic speeds, it has very high structural strength requirements.
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    Post  Lennox Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:32 pm

    Sup guys I'm new to this forum.

    I do have sth to share regarding the canopy. That pic is from an old prototype (T-50-1 or 2 with an old canopy (which btw was replaced from the 3rd T-50).

    The bubbles here are most likely due to the way it's produced. It has 2 layers of silicate glass (18mm thick in front and 16mm at the back (pilot facing)) and a layer of polyurethane in between, so you can imagine the manufacturing process of this canopy is kinda hell, especially with the polyurethane and the curvature of the canopy, which causes bubbles inside the polyurethane layer.

    Anyway, it's simple physics that when the Su-57 flies up high, pressure drops and so the volume of the bubbles in the polyurethane layer expands, which explains why it's visible only when the plane flies and not on the ground. Its really hard (impossible) to prevent those bubbles in the first place, but they by no means will affect the pilot's safety and the canopy's hardness. I mean, the canopies were 600kmh-chicken-tested alr anyway.

    What's worth noting though, is the fact that Sukhoi has changed the canopy design to a monolithic polycarbonate glass one, which has lower thickness yet better strengths and lower weight.

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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:21 pm

    Production of Su-57
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 35 Screen16
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 35 Screen17
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 35 Screen15Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 35 Screen19
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 - Page 35 Screen18

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    Post  Hole Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:28 pm

    Call the FSB! It seems there is a chinese spy in your last pic! lol!

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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:56 pm

    Hole wrote:Call the FSB! It seems there is a chinese spy in your last pic! lol!

    For this insult the Russian Eskimos will feed you to Polar Bears lol1

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