Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

GarryB wrote:Even if they make 300 it wont be enough to replace all the Su-30 and Su-35s they have, and I really don't think they need to.

They are about to make numbers of light fighters in the form of the MiG-35, while working on a light 5th gen stealth fighter to operate with it... the focus of both would be low cost operations... now you do the math... if they plan to have say 300 Su-57s along with the same or perhaps double that number of S-70 drones, and they expect to still have perhaps 300 Su-30 and Su-35 large heavy aircraft, that is about 1200 platforms... but the lighter cheaper aircraft... 4th and 5th gen light fighters are supposed to be your numbers fighters so there is a good chance they will be ultimately wanting at least 1200 light fighters too... including 4th and 5th gen fighters as well as 5th gen drones... with perhaps more drones than fighters, but we are still talking large numbers of aircraft... but then they have a lot of airspace to cover.

The real question is what form will these new light 5th gen fighters be in... the new Checkmate, or something new from MiG that is essentially a stealthy LIFT with one engine... or the carrier based fighter they have revealed which just looks like a twin engined checkmate.

flamming_python wrote:The Su-35 series will definately be around for a while. I don't think it will be replaced by 5th generation jets, rather maybe by 6th generation when unmanned strike and fighter craft become the norm

Lennox wrote:Sup guys I'm new to this forum.

I do have sth to share regarding the canopy. That pic is from an old prototype (T-50-1 or 2 with an old canopy (which btw was replaced from the 3rd T-50).

The bubbles here are most likely due to the way it's produced. It has 2 layers of silicate glass (18mm thick in front and 16mm at the back (pilot facing)) and a layer of polyurethane in between, so you can imagine the manufacturing process of this canopy is kinda hell, especially with the polyurethane and the curvature of the canopy, which causes bubbles inside the polyurethane layer.

Anyway, it's simple physics that when the Su-57 flies up high, pressure drops and so the volume of the bubbles in the polyurethane layer expands, which explains why it's visible only when the plane flies and not on the ground. Its really hard (impossible) to prevent those bubbles in the first place, but they by no means will affect the pilot's safety and the canopy's hardness. I mean, the canopies were 600kmh-chicken-tested alr anyway.

What's worth noting though, is the fact that Sukhoi has changed the canopy design to a monolithic polycarbonate glass one, which has lower thickness yet better strengths and lower weight.

Backman wrote:

Lennox wrote:Sup guys I'm new to this forum.

I do have sth to share regarding the canopy. That pic is from an old prototype (T-50-1 or 2 with an old canopy (which btw was replaced from the 3rd T-50).

The bubbles here are most likely due to the way it's produced. It has 2 layers of silicate glass (18mm thick in front and 16mm at the back (pilot facing)) and a layer of polyurethane in between, so you can imagine the manufacturing process of this canopy is kinda hell, especially with the polyurethane and the curvature of the canopy, which causes bubbles inside the polyurethane layer.

Anyway, it's simple physics that when the Su-57 flies up high, pressure drops and so the volume of the bubbles in the polyurethane layer expands, which explains why it's visible only when the plane flies and not on the ground. Its really hard (impossible) to prevent those bubbles in the first place, but they by no means will affect the pilot's safety and the canopy's hardness. I mean, the canopies were 600kmh-chicken-tested alr anyway.

What's worth noting though, is the fact that Sukhoi has changed the canopy design to a monolithic polycarbonate glass one, which has lower thickness yet better strengths and lower weight.

All you have to do is watch the whole episode that Combat Approved did on the canopy to know that the canopy is just as detailed as the one on the F-22

But the trolls really seem to think that the bubbles on the canopy are just the same bubbles you see when you pick up a sheet of plexty glass at the Home Depot.

PapaDragon wrote:

flamming_python wrote:The Su-35 series will definately be around for a while. I don't think it will be replaced by 5th generation jets, rather maybe by 6th generation when unmanned strike and fighter craft become the norm

They will be used for the remainder of their service life but once production of Su-57 revs up they will stop buying them due to overlap, they are both air superiority fighters

LMFS wrote:

GarryB wrote:Even if they make 300 it wont be enough to replace all the Su-30 and Su-35s they have, and I really don't think they need to.

They are about to make numbers of light fighters in the form of the MiG-35, while working on a light 5th gen stealth fighter to operate with it... the focus of both would be low cost operations... now you do the math... if they plan to have say 300 Su-57s along with the same or perhaps double that number of S-70 drones, and they expect to still have perhaps 300 Su-30 and Su-35 large heavy aircraft, that is about 1200 platforms... but the lighter cheaper aircraft... 4th and 5th gen light fighters are supposed to be your numbers fighters so there is a good chance they will be ultimately wanting at least 1200 light fighters too... including 4th and 5th gen fighters as well as 5th gen drones... with perhaps more drones than fighters, but we are still talking large numbers of aircraft... but then they have a lot of airspace to cover.

The real question is what form will these new light 5th gen fighters be in... the new Checkmate, or something new from MiG that is essentially a stealthy LIFT with one engine... or the carrier based fighter they have revealed which just looks like a twin engined checkmate.

The trick is that those numbers will never operate at the same time. So despite the VKS needing to grow in numbers significantly (more even so, once cheaper UCAVs start "saturating" the fleet as the Russians say), the 5G fighters will start substituting the 3 and 4G ones, first the Su-24, MiG-29, Su-27. By then, the production lines will be already loaded with 5G fighters and 4.5G ones will not be purchased any more. As the number of 5G planes grows, the fleet will grow in the beginning and then older airframes of the 4.5G will be substituted too. 150-200x Su-57, 300-400x S-70, 300-400x LTS (manned and unmanned) would be a very serious force already (750-1000 fighters and strike planes), but perfectly realistic in the long term IMHO. Russia today already has almost 250x Su-35 + Su-30, ca. 200x Su-34 + Su-24, plus > 50 Su-27 + Mig-29, that is already 500 units, without still having totally recovered from the 90's, with the advantage that the new composition would be integrated by a majority of unmanned / light / single engine planes with significantly lower purchasing and operational costs than the current fleet.

AMCXXL wrote:

LMFS wrote:

GarryB wrote:Even if they make 300 it wont be enough to replace all the Su-30 and Su-35s they have, and I really don't think they need to.

They are about to make numbers of light fighters in the form of the MiG-35, while working on a light 5th gen stealth fighter to operate with it... the focus of both would be low cost operations... now you do the math... if they plan to have say 300 Su-57s along with the same or perhaps double that number of S-70 drones, and they expect to still have perhaps 300 Su-30 and Su-35 large heavy aircraft, that is about 1200 platforms... but the lighter cheaper aircraft... 4th and 5th gen light fighters are supposed to be your numbers fighters so there is a good chance they will be ultimately wanting at least 1200 light fighters too... including 4th and 5th gen fighters as well as 5th gen drones... with perhaps more drones than fighters, but we are still talking large numbers of aircraft... but then they have a lot of airspace to cover.

The real question is what form will these new light 5th gen fighters be in... the new Checkmate, or something new from MiG that is essentially a stealthy LIFT with one engine... or the carrier based fighter they have revealed which just looks like a twin engined checkmate.

The trick is that those numbers will never operate at the same time. So despite the VKS needing to grow in numbers significantly (more even so, once cheaper UCAVs start "saturating" the fleet as the Russians say), the 5G fighters will start substituting the 3 and 4G ones, first the Su-24, MiG-29, Su-27. By then, the production lines will be already loaded with 5G fighters and 4.5G ones will not be purchased any more. As the number of 5G planes grows, the fleet will grow in the beginning and then older airframes of the 4.5G will be substituted too. 150-200x Su-57, 300-400x S-70, 300-400x LTS (manned and unmanned) would be a very serious force already (750-1000 fighters and strike planes), but perfectly realistic in the long term IMHO. Russia today already has almost 250x Su-35 + Su-30, ca. 200x Su-34 + Su-24, plus > 50 Su-27 + Mig-29, that is already 500 units, without still having totally recovered from the 90's, with the advantage that the new composition would be integrated by a majority of unmanned / light / single engine planes with significantly lower purchasing and operational costs than the current fleet.

By no means are so many planes going to be bought.
The size of the aircraft fleet will increase a bit with the arrival of the Su-57 and later the Navy Air Force will be expanded with more Su-30 and other 5th generation aircraft

Why does Russia need 300 Su-57s if USA operates only 5 combat squadrons with 123 F-22 block 30/35/40 and one training squadron with 28 F-22 block 20 ?

aviation is necessary for low and medium intensity conflicts and as a resource to delay the nuclear option in high intensity conflicts

An attempted aggression on a large scale by NATO would require a large concentration of aircraft and material in the bordering countries, which would be detected early.
In the event of hostile movement, NATO facilities in Eastern Europe would be volatilized by nuclear weapons before most NATO airplanes even took off, so it doesn't matter if the USA has 200 or 2000 F-35s.

PapaDragon wrote:

flamming_python wrote:The Su-35 series will definately be around for a while. I don't think it will be replaced by 5th generation jets, rather maybe by 6th generation when unmanned strike and fighter craft become the norm

They will be used for the remainder of their service life but once production of Su-57 revs up they will stop buying them due to overlap, they are both air superiority fighters

AMCXXL wrote:The Su-57 does not replace any aircraft, it is an expansion of the fleet.

In addition, air defense will not only include the hunting of aggressor aircraft , but also the elimination of the ground infrastructure to support these aggressor aircraft in the territories bordering Russia through the use of stealth S-70s (commanded by the Su-57s).

When all the necessary Su-35s and Su-57s have been purchased, modernization will proceed next decade, in addition to starting the project of a next-generation aircraft after that.
The 2030s will focus on rebuilding the Navy Air Force (Shipbrne fighters and helicopters, antisubmarine patrol and coastal aviation)

Therefore I see the VKS Air Force equipped with Su-35, Su-57 and S-70, and the Navy Air Force, equipped with Su-30SM and another 5th generation aircraft (Su-75 or MiG 5th generation, in several versions: shipborne, land-based and unmanned)

Why does Russia need 300 Su-57s if USA operates only 5 combat squadrons with 123 F-22 block 30/35/40 and one training squadron with 28 F-22 block 20 ?

aviation is necessary for low and medium intensity conflicts and as a resource to delay the nuclear option in high intensity conflicts

An attempted aggression on a large scale by NATO would require a large concentration of aircraft and material in the bordering countries, which would be detected early.
In the event of hostile movement, NATO facilities in Eastern Europe would be volatilized by nuclear weapons before most NATO airplanes even took off, so it doesn't matter if the USA has 200 or 2000 F-35s.

zepia wrote:

Part 5 of the Su-57 series from Millennium 7*.
Interestingly, he mentions that the DIRCM turrets also perform other functions like missile detecting and IR imaging.
Also he called it "101KS-O/N".

x_54_u43 wrote:Dude, you're replying to an obvious fucking troll and over prototype number 11, FFS.